From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Wed Mar 24 01:11:20 2004 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Wednesday, March 24 2004 Volume 01 : Number 2121 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: Re: help needed Re: fsj: Re: help needed fsj: Re: Fw: Disc Brake conversion in my '73 J4000 fsj: delusions of Diesels... :) FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 19:04:48 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: help needed On Mon, 22 Mar 2004, Okke Ornstein wrote: >-->John, >--> >-->Thanks for your quick reply. >--> >-->I was wondering if there were any diesel engines that would readily fit >-->on the Chrysler 727 transmission, maybe from a Dodge or something? Are >-->there any other cars that use this transmission with the same housing >-->that you know of? I think a Nissan Diesel might... one of the guys on the FSJ list is quite knowledgeable about this... >-->A diesel engine is heavier, and I figured that a V6 of about 4 liter >-->would probably do the job. I've considered using a Mercedes 3.0L TD. >-->There is a lot available here, although new is mostly Japanese. I guess >-->that getting an early nineties diesel engine from AMC wouldn't be too >-->much of a problem, and even shipping from Houston of Miami isn't that >-->expensive. they had some???? >-->Bottom line is that I just need to know what fits. I don't want to >-->rebuild the whole car, just swap engines. Making an adapter is of >-->course another possibility, there should be enough 3.8 turbo diesel >-->engines available from landcruisers and the like. cool, keep me posted... I'm giving some thought to a 3.0L TD from a Benz into an XJ Jeep Cherokee... :) john >--> >-->Again, thanks for your help, >--> >-->Best, >--> >-->Okke >--> >--> >-->On Mar 22, 2004, at 6:57 PM, john wrote: >--> >-->> >-->> Okke, >-->> >-->> What kind of Diesel are you considering? Or better, what's available >-->> there? You'll need to adapt something (transmission or xfr case) to >-->> make it work... unless you can get the entire driveline out of a chevy >-->> or izusu or toyota 4x4 Diesel... >-->> >-->> recommend getting on the fsj list... see below. >-->> >-->> john >-->> >-->> >-->> On Mon, 22 Mar 2004, Okke Ornstein wrote: >-->> Okke Ornstein >-->> >-->>> -->Hello, >-->>> --> >-->>> -->I am a Dutchman living in Panama, and I own a 1990 Jeep Grand >-->>> Wagoneer. >-->>> -->The engine (8 cil, 5.9 liter) is starting to show signs of >-->>> fatigue, and >-->>> -->I have been thinking about replacing it with a diesel engine. I >-->>> hope >-->>> -->you can give me some general advice on that, and I'm especially >-->>> eager >-->>> -->to learn which engines would be suitable for the purpose. >-->>> --> >-->>> -->I'm looking to get better mileage, we don't need speed here in >-->>> Panama >-->>> -->but diesel torque would be nice. Easier maintenance is another >-->>> -->advantage in my experience with diesel cars. >-->>> --> >-->>> -->Any advice you can give me would be very much appreciated, >-->>> --> >-->>> -->Best Regards, >-->>> --> >-->>> -->Okke Ornstein >-->>> -->Panama >-->>> --> >-->> >-->> ---- >-->> >-->> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->> -- >-->> ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** >-->> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. >-->> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->> -- >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> ======================================================================= >-->> =============== >-->> To subscribe to a list on digest.net, EMAIL majordomo-at-digest.net, no >-->> subject needed, >-->> in the body: subscribe fsj >-->> end >-->> >-->> (note: select only one of the options in the brackets) >-->> >-->> You will need to reply to an authentication message. Add a "-digest" >-->> to any of the lists >-->> to subscribe in the digest mode (messages are grouped, less traffic). >-->> Please do not >-->> send HTML, special characters, images, SPAM, attachments or stylized >-->> text to the lists. >-->> >-->> The "FOUR" List Rules: >-->> 1) NO flames. >-->> 2) NO foul language. >-->> 3) keep it Family oriented. >-->> 4) keep the subject list oriented. >-->> >-->> to post, email fsj-at-digest.net >-->> >-->> to unsubscribe, email majordomo-at-digest.net >-->> in the message: >-->> >-->> unsubscribe (list name) (your email) >-->> end >-->> >-->> ======================================================================= >-->> =============== >-->> john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com >-->> http://www.wagoneers.com/AMSOIL/FSJ_filters.html >-->> http://www.wagoneers.com/book-info.html >-->> http://www.wagoneers.com/BIBLE >-->> ======================================================================= >-->> =============== >-->> >-->> >-->================== >-->http://www.ornstein.org >-->================== >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 19:56:34 -0800 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: Re: fsj: Re: help needed A: I would look into the Nissan since export models came stock with them (International Harvetser Scouts did too) They use the same transmission (727) but require an adapter/spacer between motor and trans, plus a special torque converter. On Mon, 22 Mar 2004, Okke Ornstein wrote: Okke Ornstein >-->Hello, >--> >-->I am a Dutchman living in Panama, and I own a 1990 Jeep Grand Wagoneer. >-->The engine (8 cil, 5.9 liter) is starting to show signs of fatigue, and >-->I have been thinking about replacing it with a diesel engine. I hope >-->you can give me some general advice on that, and I'm especially eager >-->to learn which engines would be suitable for the purpose. >--> >-->I'm looking to get better mileage, we don't need speed here in Panama >-->but diesel torque would be nice. Easier maintenance is another >-->advantage in my experience with diesel cars. >--> >-->Any advice you can give me would be very much appreciated, >--> >-->Best Regards, >--> >-->Okke Ornstein >-->Panama >--> ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 19:53:32 -0800 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: fsj: Re: Fw: Disc Brake conversion in my '73 J4000 A: I've been sort of looking at the "Who does this or knows what parts?" Those kits are pricey and I plan to pull my axle soon so I don't want to dump a chunk of money in I'm not going to get back. Today, I picked up new drums Raybestos #2307 for $80 the pair and brake shoes #280RP (for self adjusting with the hardware, springs and adjuster off the rear of a later FSJ) New wheel cylinders were -at-$30. (That'll at least have me up and running tomorrow) I also picked up CJ brake rotors (76/77 take #3550 which appears to be closest to correct for the conversion, but they cost $120 apiece! '78 to '85? take #3552 but they also make #103552 which is cheaper at $40 apiece) The center holes won't fit over my D44 hubs, so I am going to borrow a machine shop caliper and see if I can open the center hole and have enough meat left for strength (plus fit the back side over the D44 hub) Then I'll make up caliper brackets to use common GM calipers (since I have lots around I can get rebuilt for -at-$20 apiece) From: "Neal Hoover" Subject: fsj: Fw: Disc Brake conversion in my J4000 so, i guess that you're looking for suggestions for the swap? have you looked at TSM? Wilwood? i really don't know the answer for your application, but both of those shops seem to have the skinny on disc conversions. HTH. Neal A. Hoover Project '76 J-10 Project '96 XJ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 01:06:53 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: fsj: delusions of Diesels... :) I shouldn't be left unsupervised in a Diesel powered vehicle on I-5 for 5 hours... :) It gets me to thinking... and that is not always a good thing. ;) Shadowfax did great on the trip down to Eugene, OR. Not sure of the mileage yet, only used half a tank coming home... (310 miles) the cruise misbehaved so I controlled the throttle... at 3,000 rpm it's doing 77 mph... that 2.5L Turbo Diesel is very happy in that range and will zing up to 4,000 surprisingly fast. I had to work at keeping the speed down, it creeps up quite easily. Very responsive on the freeway. Trying to get around some trucks before the lane ended heading up one pass it jumped up to nearly triple digits rather quickly... surprising little 2.5L Diesel... The way they set the turbo and gearing up makes this thing quick off the line and responsive at freeway speeds. With specs that claim 0 to 60 in 12 seconds and a top end of 124mph it seems pretty amazing to me... especially at 28-32 mpg in town and close to 39 or 40mpg on the freeway! Anyway, it got me thinking about using a 3.0L Turbo Diesel in SuperDawg... instead of the 4.0L gas engine... So I'm acquiring a used Benz from a friend on the list and we're going to make a feasibility assessment on using the Mercedes 3.0L Turbo Diesel in my '83 J10 Stepside. (Of course a 2.5L TD would be even cooler, but unlikely... ;) The specs on the 3.0L are quite close to the original 4.2L gas engine and with the gearing change should permit economical results. And phenomenal range with dual tanks. :) SPECS: - ------ '83 J10 4.2L - 115hp-at-3,200 - 210 ftlbs-at-1,800 rpm - original engine '83 MB 3.0LTD - 125hp-at-4,350 - 170 ftlbs-at-2,400 rpm - the econo motor '96 xj 4.0L - 185hp-at-4,600 - 220 ftlbs-at-2,400 rpm - the engine I have already '91 MB 2.5L TD - 147hp??? - ???? need to look up the specs... The plan for the last 3 years (has it been that long already???) was to use the '96 xj 4.0L. It would be an increase in power and likely increase in fuel economy. However, my desire has always been to have a Diesel powered FSJ. With fuel prices the way they are and the offer to get a running Benz right now just seem to make sense. Performance isn't the objective, economy is so I can afford to drive my FSJ daily. A 4.0L in it would get pretty close to what an XJ gets, my '87 is typically 16 to 17mpg in town and almost 21 on the freeway. It's got 249,000 miles and along with all the other XJ's I've owned the 4.0L impresses me. However, with the 3.0L I-5 Turbo Diesel in a vehicle weighing close to what my J10 weighs (the '83 300SD tipped the scales around 3,600 or so pounds while the J10 tips it at 4,100lbs - remember it's the stepside, fiberglass fenders and a six cylinder) was getting 26mpg in town and around 30mpg on the freeway... ok, so there is a bit of a difference in wind resistance, but I'm guessing that I'll see 20 to 22mpg in town and close to 26 to 28mpg on the freeway if I keep my metric size 43's out of the injection pump. (yeah, like THAT will happen. ;) However, the technical issues abound... main issue will be mating the Benz TD to the AisinWarner 30-80LE 4 speed automatic... I'm kind of committed and partial to it since I paid over $350 so far to create an adapter to mate it to the NP219. I will consider using the Benz AT with a divorced xfr case. The Benz engine is straight forward, simple, reliable and easy to work on. Anyways, we'll see... we'll have to do some math, measurements and a major reality check. While I'm picking up 10 hp it comes at a higher rpm, which may not be a problem since I'm changing the gearing from 3.31's to 4.10s and using the AW4. The torque is the part that has me mildly concerned. I lose 40 ft lbs and the peak sits 600 rpm's higher... Have to do the math with the gearing of 4.10, 235's and an od of .75 to see what my rpm will be at 60mph (or so). if I don't reply to the follow on chatter it's because I'm taking off for Texas on Thursday, then Missouri and won't be back until Apr 3... then I start teaching the next quarter the next week... way too busy... kind of funny seeing as how I don't have a regular job. ;) later, dieseljohn ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #2121 **************************