From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Wed Jul 14 07:11:05 2004 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Wednesday, July 14 2004 Volume 01 : Number 2187 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: FSM for '82 Waggy??? Re: fsj: FSM for '82 Waggy??? fsj: fire extinguisher Re: fsj: fire extinguisher fsj: '74 mileage fsj: Re: '74 mileage Re: fsj: Re: '74 mileage Re: fsj: Re: '74 mileage Re: fsj: fire extinguisher FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 22:27:04 -0500 From: Subject: fsj: FSM for '82 Waggy??? Sorry I'm sending so many things to the list tonight, but I'm looking for an online FSM for my '82 Waggy. If nothing else I'd at least like the procedures for reinstalling the tranny/transfercase and wiring/vacuum diagrams for it... Can anyone point me in the right direction? Email me backchannel if you need a place to FTP it to if you have one on your pc. Thanks, Jeremy - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.712 / Virus Database: 468 - Release Date: 6/27/2004 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 00:18:41 -0500 From: Jeep Nut Subject: Re: fsj: FSM for '82 Waggy??? An online FSM? Man that would be so cool.... Can you imagine how long it would take to scan in a FSM?... Jeremy, I've got '81 and '83 general wiring diagrams that might be helpful. And an '84 360 vac diagram... Let me know if you want any of them. The wiring diagrams are approx. 500Mb ea zipped. JeepNut keej-at-machlink.com wrote: >Sorry I'm sending so many things to the list tonight, but I'm looking for an >online FSM for my '82 Waggy. If nothing else I'd at least like the >procedures for reinstalling the tranny/transfercase and wiring/vacuum >diagrams for it... Can anyone point me in the right direction? Email me >backchannel if you need a place to FTP it to if you have one on your pc. > >Thanks, >Jeremy > - - "Microsoft Certified Professionals are to the computing industry what McDonalds Certified Food Specialists are to gourmet restaurants." -Michael Bacarella 00Mar15 - ---------------------------------------------------------- '87 Street Comanche #24/100 '88 Grand Wagoneer ...and they say there's only one... '92 Cherokee Laredo - ---------------------------------------------------------- Registered Linux user #287453 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 09:32:47 CDT From: Dan Black Subject: fsj: fire extinguisher Just a reminder... Y'all should carry a fire extinguisher in each vehicle. ;) Was at a restaurant Friday night when somebody in our group saw smoke outside. I took a look, and it was a Corsica parked right next to my '74! I went outside, got my fire extinguisher out, and used it. Unfortunately, since the owner wasn't out there yet so we couldn't pop the hood, my 2.5lb fire extinguisher didn't quite get the job done, though it likely slowed it down a bit. (So I ended up moving the '74, which could've been in the way when the firefighters got there, and would've ended up at least getting the side licked by flames shooting out the front left wheel well.) So when I buy a replacement, I'm going to go for a 5 or maybe even 10lb one. Now if only I could find a place to mount it... (Also too bad another friend wasn't there last night who is usually with us... He also carries one in his Bronco.) I know others on this list have also had experiences like this... Didn't John and Jim both have interstate stories? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Nooo! Who said that? -- Uncle Lou - -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 07:23:15 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: fire extinguisher most of my fires have been in my shop... working with carbs... hence the reason I like Diesels and Fuel Injection. :) I don't have nearly the stories that Jim has. ;) john On Tue, 13 Jul 2004, Dan Black wrote: >-->Just a reminder... Y'all should carry a fire extinguisher in each >-->vehicle. ;) >--> >-->Was at a restaurant Friday night when somebody in our group saw smoke >-->outside. I took a look, and it was a Corsica parked right next to my >-->'74! I went outside, got my fire extinguisher out, and used it. >--> >-->Unfortunately, since the owner wasn't out there yet so we couldn't pop >-->the hood, my 2.5lb fire extinguisher didn't quite get the job done, >-->though it likely slowed it down a bit. (So I ended up moving the '74, >-->which could've been in the way when the firefighters got there, and >-->would've ended up at least getting the side licked by flames shooting >-->out the front left wheel well.) So when I buy a replacement, I'm going >-->to go for a 5 or maybe even 10lb one. Now if only I could find a place >-->to mount it... (Also too bad another friend wasn't there last night who >-->is usually with us... He also carries one in his Bronco.) >--> >-->I know others on this list have also had experiences like this... >-->Didn't John and Jim both have interstate stories? >--> >-->------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >--> Nooo! Who said that? >--> -- Uncle Lou >-->-------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 09:18:27 CDT From: Dan Black Subject: fsj: '74 mileage To make a long story short, the '88 (new 401 with TBI) is still having problems, but I've got one or two more things to try before taking it to the shop. Replaced most of the vacuum lines Saturday... But the good news is the mileage on the '74: I've been consistently averaging 11mpg recently... in town!! That's the best city mileage I've ever gotten for any length of time in an FSJ! I even got 10 or 10.5mpg on a tank when I first hauled a full-size Chevy pickup-bed trailer filled with a ton of gravel for probably 20mi around the edge of town, and then the next day hauled a flatbed trailer with a 1000lb (est.) trenching machine back and forth through town (prob. another 20mi total). I think I even got 12.5 when I drove half the tank on the highway. The final catalyst seems to be breaking 8000mi on the engine and switching to synthetic oil. Here are all the contributing factors I can think of that have given me the good mileage: * remanufactured 401 installed two or three years ago * new 4bbl Edelbrock carb installed last winter * broke 8000mi on the new engine (seems to be the point where mileage improves, in my experience) * low gears (we're guessing 4.09 or 4.11, whatever they have in that range, but haven't tested) helps with stop-and-go in town * warmer weather recently I run the "cheap" gas in Iowa, which means mid-grade Ethanol. And here are the reasons that mileage is amazing: * it's a '74, fer cryin' out loud! * 413 cubes (401 bored 0.060" over == 412.7) * 4bbl carb * Quadratrac (full-time 4wd -- no 2wd mode at all) * lots of stop-n-go traffic every day -- Our lights are timed poorly (though they've improved somewhat the last few years), and my luck is horrible besides that. I hit waaay more than my share of reds, no matter if I'm speeding, going slow, going the limit, going with traffic... People don't believe or comprehend how bad my luck is until they ride with me. Then they say, "Wow, you really meant it!" ... But that's why those low gears help me. AND why I want lots of torque for take-off power: I spend a lot of time doing it! * slightly oversize tires (31"x10.5") doesn't help taking off * I don't slam on the accelerator at every light, but I'm far from light and easy on it. I tell ya, though... That Quadratrac really spoils you. That and the low gears and big engine definitely give you options for making a left turn across lanes in busy noon traffic. And it's easy to get used to accelerating on wide 90deg turns even with loose dirt on the road... When I drove the '88 (briefly) over the weekend, I ended up fishtailing when I wasn't expecting it because of that. Of course I snapped it right back, but that just emphasized how much the Quadratrac has spoiled me. Heck, even with the SelecTrac on the '88 after a snow earlier this year (and that's still a good 4wd system), the SelecTrac in 4wd still had much less control driving out of the ruts and onto more snow on the roads. The Quadratrac just happily plowed over or chewed through any of that stuff with much better control. Heh, if I ever have to replace the transfer case in the '88, I'll consider swapping axels and whatever I need to convert to Quadratrac. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If you start a game with an AlphaStation that has no free slots or drive bays, are you playing with a full DEC? - -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 12:51:05 -0400 From: "Neal Hoover" Subject: fsj: Re: '74 mileage intersting stuff, Dan! i'm very curious as to what kind of mileage i'll get from my recently rebuilt 360 (also w/ QT). i'm basically done with the chassis right now (minor fine tuning to go), and now it's on with the body work! as a side note, i also install Zack's HEI distributor and opened up my plug gaps to about 0.055" it runs flawlessly, and it even starts up faster than my '96 XJ does! if you haven't changed ignitions yet, i'd definitely suggest Zack's distributor. Neal A. Hoover Project '76 J-10 Project '96 XJ - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Black" To: "Full Size Jeeps" Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 10:18 AM Subject: fsj: '74 mileage > To make a long story short, the '88 (new 401 with TBI) is still having > problems, but I've got one or two more things to try before taking it to > the shop. Replaced most of the vacuum lines Saturday... > > But the good news is the mileage on the '74: I've been consistently > averaging 11mpg recently... in town!! That's the best city mileage I've > ever gotten for any length of time in an FSJ! I even got 10 or 10.5mpg > on a tank when I first hauled a full-size Chevy pickup-bed trailer > filled with a ton of gravel for probably 20mi around the edge of town, > and then the next day hauled a flatbed trailer with a 1000lb (est.) > trenching machine back and forth through town (prob. another 20mi > total). I think I even got 12.5 when I drove half the tank on the > highway. The final catalyst seems to be breaking 8000mi on the engine > and switching to synthetic oil. > > Here are all the contributing factors I can think of that have given me > the good mileage: > * remanufactured 401 installed two or three years ago > * new 4bbl Edelbrock carb installed last winter > * broke 8000mi on the new engine (seems to be the point where mileage > improves, in my experience) > * low gears (we're guessing 4.09 or 4.11, whatever they have in that > range, but haven't tested) helps with stop-and-go in town > * warmer weather recently > I run the "cheap" gas in Iowa, which means mid-grade Ethanol. > > And here are the reasons that mileage is amazing: > * it's a '74, fer cryin' out loud! > * 413 cubes (401 bored 0.060" over == 412.7) > * 4bbl carb > * Quadratrac (full-time 4wd -- no 2wd mode at all) > * lots of stop-n-go traffic every day -- Our lights are timed poorly > (though they've improved somewhat the last few years), and my luck is > horrible besides that. I hit waaay more than my share of reds, no > matter if I'm speeding, going slow, going the limit, going with > traffic... People don't believe or comprehend how bad my luck is > until they ride with me. Then they say, "Wow, you really meant it!" > ... But that's why those low gears help me. AND why I want lots of > torque for take-off power: I spend a lot of time doing it! > * slightly oversize tires (31"x10.5") doesn't help taking off > * I don't slam on the accelerator at every light, but I'm far from > light and easy on it. > > I tell ya, though... That Quadratrac really spoils you. That and the > low gears and big engine definitely give you options for making a left > turn across lanes in busy noon traffic. And it's easy to get used to > accelerating on wide 90deg turns even with loose dirt on the road... > When I drove the '88 (briefly) over the weekend, I ended up fishtailing > when I wasn't expecting it because of that. Of course I snapped it > right back, but that just emphasized how much the Quadratrac has spoiled > me. Heck, even with the SelecTrac on the '88 after a snow earlier this > year (and that's still a good 4wd system), the SelecTrac in 4wd still > had much less control driving out of the ruts and onto more snow on the > roads. The Quadratrac just happily plowed over or chewed through any of > that stuff with much better control. Heh, if I ever have to replace the > transfer case in the '88, I'll consider swapping axels and whatever I > need to convert to Quadratrac. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ----- > If you start a game with an AlphaStation > that has no free slots or drive bays, > are you playing with a full DEC? > -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 12:06:03 CDT From: Dan Black Subject: Re: fsj: Re: '74 mileage "Neal Hoover" said: {- as a side note, i also install Zack's HEI distributor and opened up my plug {- gaps to about 0.055" {- it runs flawlessly, and it even starts up faster than my '96 XJ does! {- if you haven't changed ignitions yet, i'd definitely suggest Zack's {- distributor. I've heard lots of people say that everyone should convert over the years, but whenever I looked for any of the stuff they said to convert to, it was basically unavailable, and nobody from any of the stores (local parts stores, Summit, Jeg's, wherever) can find anything about those specialty ignitions for FSJs. So somebody (hint, hint) should write up a permanent web page for John's site detailing (a) what the difference is, the theory behind it (and what IS "HEI"?), and why it's better; (b) EXACTLY what parts to get (a FULL list), including brand and model number and approximate prices and where to get them, and (c) a good, detailed (with pictures!) step-by-step instruction guide of how to do it. (The most I've ever done with a distributor was following a step-by-step instruction list to take out the mechanical advance weights on the '88 for the TBI conversion.) If it involves doing the whole ignition system (people have sworn by Jacobs ignition upgrades, too), what's involved? Would also be nice to touch on the subjects of what will be different in the installation and parts if you have (a) an old points system, or (b) a converted TBI system. (I definitely have the TBI on the '88, but I'm not sure if my '74 is points or not. It has the little window in the distributor cap, but a friend set it once and claimed it didn't actually have points. Beyond changing the cap and rotor and adjusting the timing, I don't know much about the distributor guts.) I don't know if it involves the ignition module directly, but I don't see one on the '74. (I'm certainly familiar with replacing ignition modules on the GWags.) And if it's not too expensive and somebody wants to help me do the conversion on my '74 (I'm in central Iowa), I could take pictures and help write up a nice web page for it. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The only reason people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory. - -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 18:38:13 -0400 From: "Neal Hoover" Subject: Re: fsj: Re: '74 mileage in a nutshell, Dan, it's a dream. it's basically a self-contained unit that is a direct bolt-in. all you need to get are a set of plug wires that fits HEI type terminals (or cut the ends off of yours and reterminate). the beauty is that it rids the fender well of the ECU garbage, and gets rid of the coil as well. like i said, it's a self-contained package with the ignition module and coil all within the cap. it's also a one-wire hookup. hook up a key-switched 12V+ to the distributor with the wire supplied in the kit and you're good to go! it also makes a much hotter spark, which makes for a better burn. best way to describe it is to go to zack's web site and read all about it. the kit also comes with very detailed instructions, so it's basically a no-brainer. oh - as far as installation goes, the only problem i had was with clearance issues with the factory hard fuel line. i just removed it from the fuel pump, bent my own line by hand, and was off and running. here is a link to zack's page... http://www.zmjeeps.com/hei.php i can also send you a few pics of mine installed if you like. i think all told, i spent around $260 for everything including shipping! Neal A. Hoover Project '76 J-10 Project '96 XJ - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Black" To: "Full Size Jeeps" Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 1:06 PM Subject: Re: fsj: Re: '74 mileage > "Neal Hoover" said: > {- as a side note, i also install Zack's HEI distributor and opened up my plug > {- gaps to about 0.055" > {- it runs flawlessly, and it even starts up faster than my '96 XJ does! > {- if you haven't changed ignitions yet, i'd definitely suggest Zack's > {- distributor. > > I've heard lots of people say that everyone should convert over the > years, but whenever I looked for any of the stuff they said to convert > to, it was basically unavailable, and nobody from any of the stores > (local parts stores, Summit, Jeg's, wherever) can find anything about > those specialty ignitions for FSJs. > > So somebody (hint, hint) should write up a permanent web page for John's > site detailing (a) what the difference is, the theory behind it (and > what IS "HEI"?), and why it's better; (b) EXACTLY what parts to get (a > FULL list), including brand and model number and approximate prices and > where to get them, and (c) a good, detailed (with pictures!) > step-by-step instruction guide of how to do it. (The most I've ever > done with a distributor was following a step-by-step instruction list to > take out the mechanical advance weights on the '88 for the TBI > conversion.) If it involves doing the whole ignition system (people > have sworn by Jacobs ignition upgrades, too), what's involved? > > Would also be nice to touch on the subjects of what will be different in > the installation and parts if you have (a) an old points system, or (b) > a converted TBI system. (I definitely have the TBI on the '88, but I'm > not sure if my '74 is points or not. It has the little window in the > distributor cap, but a friend set it once and claimed it didn't actually > have points. Beyond changing the cap and rotor and adjusting the > timing, I don't know much about the distributor guts.) I don't know if > it involves the ignition module directly, but I don't see one on the > '74. (I'm certainly familiar with replacing ignition modules on the > GWags.) > > And if it's not too expensive and somebody wants to help me do the > conversion on my '74 (I'm in central Iowa), I could take pictures and > help write up a nice web page for it. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ----- > The only reason people get lost in thought > is because it's unfamiliar territory. > -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 00:59:50 -0700 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: Re: fsj: fire extinguisher I have 2 in my J4000. One small handy one hanging behind the passenger's head in the corner and another strapped just under the hood (along with my comealong) most of my fires have been in my shop... working with carbs... hence the reason I like Diesels and Fuel Injection. :) I don't have nearly the stories that Jim has. ;) john On Tue, 13 Jul 2004, Dan Black wrote: >-->Just a reminder... Y'all should carry a fire extinguisher in each >-->vehicle. ;) >--> >-->Was at a restaurant Friday night when somebody in our group saw smoke >-->outside. I took a look, and it was a Corsica parked right next to my >-->'74! I went outside, got my fire extinguisher out, and used it. >--> >-->Unfortunately, since the owner wasn't out there yet so we couldn't pop >-->the hood, my 2.5lb fire extinguisher didn't quite get the job done, >-->though it likely slowed it down a bit. (So I ended up moving the '74, >-->which could've been in the way when the firefighters got there, and >-->would've ended up at least getting the side licked by flames shooting >-->out the front left wheel well.) So when I buy a replacement, I'm going >-->to go for a 5 or maybe even 10lb one. Now if only I could find a place >-->to mount it... (Also too bad another friend wasn't there last night who >-->is usually with us... He also carries one in his Bronco.) >--> >-->I know others on this list have also had experiences like this... >-->Didn't John and Jim both have interstate stories? >--> >-->------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >--> Nooo! Who said that? >--> -- Uncle Lou >-->-------------- Dan Black ------------------------- >dan-at-black.org -------------- >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #2187 **************************