From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Fri Jul 16 11:09:23 2004 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Friday, July 16 2004 Volume 01 : Number 2189 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: fsj: Re: Rear Axle Details Re: fsj: Re: Rear Axle Details Re: fsj: Re: Rear Axle Details Re: fsj: Re: Rear Axle Details Re: fsj: Re: '74 mileage Re: fsj: Re: Rear Axle Details fsj: Solenoid Problem / Question... FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 06:56:00 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Rear Axle Details On Thu, 15 Jul 2004, Neal Hoover wrote: >-->first off, i'd be concerend that the gears in the "new" axle match the old. >-->the tag on the old axle shows the BOM number (8953004031) and the 3 31 >-->shows it has 3.31:1 ring and pinion gears. i believe the 43-13 is the build >-->date. no, 43 is the number of teeth on the ring gear, 13 is the number of gears on the pinion, earlier axles didn't have the ratio stamped on it, only the tooth count... what? you think they put freshness stamps on the gears? ;) john >-->make sure that the "new" axle has the same gearing ratio as the old. else, >-->you won't be able to use 4WD. >--> >-->Neal A. Hoover >-->Project '76 J-10 >-->Project '96 XJ >-->----- Original Message ----- >-->From: "Jeep Nut" >-->To: "FSJ List" >-->Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2004 1:45 PM >-->Subject: fsj: Rear Axle Details >--> >--> >-->> Hi all, >-->> Rear end went out on Friday on the way home in the '88. 223966 >-->> miles, so no big surprise, but it's grinding like an Osterizer full of >-->> hardware. Yes I'm aware of how old that reference makes me. LOL... >-->> So being in the middle of engine swap preparations already, and no >-->> free funds for rebuilding a rearend, I decided to swap the "unknown >-->> condition" rear end out of the 87 parts truck, and when dropping it, >-->> noticed this little tag... >-->> >-->> Use Limited Slip Diff Lube Only >-->> ?? does that mean what I think it means? ...cooollll.... >-->> >-->> The other tag on the diff says: >-->> 8953004031 >-->> 3 31 43-13 >-->> >-->> Q1. Anyone know how to decipher those numbers? >-->> >-->> The FSM says that Trac Loc rears are not offered for Select Trac setups. >-->> Hmmm...... I wonder why? Does this cause some conflict with the >-->> viscous coupler? >-->> >-->> Q2. Anyone have any idea why a Trac Loc is not a good idea w/ a NP229 >-->> (parts truck has a NP228)? >-->> >-->> It looks like a Dana 44... (a 60 is much bigger isn't it?) So I pull >-->> the cover plate off, just to be sure, and sure enough, this is a Dana 44 >-->> w/a TracLoc installed. Unfortunately it looks like remanants of at >-->> least one of the steel "clutch clips" (I don't know what they really >-->> are, that's just what they look like to me -little W shaped clip...) are >-->> laying in the bottom of the housing, but hey, it's gonna have to run me >-->> for a while (I hope). >-->> >-->> Q3. Any comments on expectations that this rear will run for a while? >-->> (i.e. It won't "lock" wth these clips broken, but otherwise it should >-->> run OK for a while longer before it totally grenades.) or (what a >-->> moron, you've just totally wasted 3 full days of vacation). ;-) >-->> >-->> Q4. Should I be excited about the damaged Trac Loc? Keeping in mind >-->> that the clutches need replaced, are these things more expensive to >-->> rebuild than they are worth? >-->> >-->> I have noticed a couple of teeth in the spider gears have some pitted >-->> faces. Not really "chunks" out of the teeth, but just rough on the >-->> front and pitted like on the contact surface area where it should be >-->> smooth. >-->> >-->> Q5. Anyone know what causes that? Is it terminal? Does this kind of >-->> wear make the thing essentialy junk? >-->> >-->> I'm assuming that all this means replacing the all the gears and >-->> clutches in the Trac Loc making it likely cheaper to replace than >-->> rebuild. But I'd be thrilled to hear otherwise. >-->> >-->> That is IF there is no reason NOT to use a Track Loc with a SelecTrac >-->setup. >-->> >-->> Thanks all! >-->> JeepNut >-->> >-->> -- >-->> "Microsoft Certified Professionals are to the computing >-->> industry what McDonalds Certified Food Specialists are to >-->> gourmet restaurants." -Michael Bacarella 00Mar15 >-->> ---------------------------------------------------------- >-->> '87 Street Comanche #24/100 >-->> '88 Grand Wagoneer ...and they say there's only one... >-->> '92 Cherokee Laredo >-->> ---------------------------------------------------------- >-->> Registered Linux user #287453 >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 11:53:52 -0400 From: "Neal Hoover" Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Rear Axle Details lol! a quick punch into the calculator shows that the 43/13 is indeed the R&P tooth count. actually, the D44 on my XJ (swapped in from an older XJ) does have the build date stamped onto the axle tube. not only does it show date, but the time of day and the work shift. it's a method of QA so if there is a problem down the road, they can track it back to a manufacturing time to make an evaluation from there. crazy stuff, aye? Neal A. Hoover Project '76 J-10 Project '96 XJ - ----- Original Message ----- From: "john" To: "Neal Hoover" Cc: "Jeep Nut" ; "FSJ List" Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2004 9:56 AM Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Rear Axle Details > On Thu, 15 Jul 2004, Neal Hoover wrote: > > >-->first off, i'd be concerend that the gears in the "new" axle match the old. > >-->the tag on the old axle shows the BOM number (8953004031) and the 3 31 > >-->shows it has 3.31:1 ring and pinion gears. i believe the 43-13 is the build > >-->date. > > > no, 43 is the number of teeth on the ring gear, 13 is the number of gears on the pinion, > earlier axles didn't have the ratio stamped on it, only the tooth count... > > what? you think they put freshness stamps on the gears? ;) > > john > > >-->make sure that the "new" axle has the same gearing ratio as the old. else, > >-->you won't be able to use 4WD. > >--> > >-->Neal A. Hoover > >-->Project '76 J-10 > >-->Project '96 XJ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 11:14:15 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Rear Axle Details cool... do you have a decoder for the date time stamp or is it in plain text? (can't remember, no jeep nearby... 1,000 miles from home... ;) john On Thu, 15 Jul 2004, Neal Hoover wrote: >-->lol! a quick punch into the calculator shows that the 43/13 is indeed the >-->R&P tooth count. >-->actually, the D44 on my XJ (swapped in from an older XJ) does have the build >-->date stamped onto the axle tube. not only does it show date, but the time >-->of day and the work shift. it's a method of QA so if there is a problem >-->down the road, they can track it back to a manufacturing time to make an >-->evaluation from there. >-->crazy stuff, aye? >--> >-->Neal A. Hoover >-->Project '76 J-10 >-->Project '96 XJ >-->----- Original Message ----- >-->From: "john" >-->To: "Neal Hoover" >-->Cc: "Jeep Nut" ; "FSJ List" >-->Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2004 9:56 AM >-->Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Rear Axle Details >--> >--> >-->> On Thu, 15 Jul 2004, Neal Hoover wrote: >-->> >-->> >-->first off, i'd be concerend that the gears in the "new" axle match the >-->old. >-->> >-->the tag on the old axle shows the BOM number (8953004031) and the 3 >-->31 >-->> >-->shows it has 3.31:1 ring and pinion gears. i believe the 43-13 is the >-->build >-->> >-->date. >-->> >-->> >-->> no, 43 is the number of teeth on the ring gear, 13 is the number of gears >-->on the pinion, >-->> earlier axles didn't have the ratio stamped on it, only the tooth count... >-->> >-->> what? you think they put freshness stamps on the gears? ;) >-->> >-->> john >-->> >-->> >-->make sure that the "new" axle has the same gearing ratio as the old. >-->else, >-->> >-->you won't be able to use 4WD. >-->> >--> >-->> >-->Neal A. Hoover >-->> >-->Project '76 J-10 >-->> >-->Project '96 XJ >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 19:58:57 -0400 From: "Neal Hoover" Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Rear Axle Details IIRC, it's a coded stamp, but simple if you know what you're looking for. Dana has a web site that you can punch in the BOM and it'll tell you all you need to know about that particular axle. lemme get into it again over the next couple of days and i'll post to the list. Neal A. Hoover Project '76 J-10 Project '96 XJ - ----- Original Message ----- From: "john" To: "Neal Hoover" Cc: "Jeep Nut" ; "FSJ List" Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2004 2:14 PM Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Rear Axle Details > > cool... do you have a decoder for the date time stamp or is it in plain text? > (can't remember, no jeep nearby... 1,000 miles from home... ;) > > john > > On Thu, 15 Jul 2004, Neal Hoover wrote: > > >-->lol! a quick punch into the calculator shows that the 43/13 is indeed the > >-->R&P tooth count. > >-->actually, the D44 on my XJ (swapped in from an older XJ) does have the build > >-->date stamped onto the axle tube. not only does it show date, but the time > >-->of day and the work shift. it's a method of QA so if there is a problem > >-->down the road, they can track it back to a manufacturing time to make an > >-->evaluation from there. > >-->crazy stuff, aye? > >--> > >-->Neal A. Hoover > >-->Project '76 J-10 > >-->Project '96 XJ > >-->----- Original Message ----- > >-->From: "john" > >-->To: "Neal Hoover" > >-->Cc: "Jeep Nut" ; "FSJ List" > >-->Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2004 9:56 AM > >-->Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Rear Axle Details > >--> > >--> > >-->> On Thu, 15 Jul 2004, Neal Hoover wrote: > >-->> > >-->> >-->first off, i'd be concerend that the gears in the "new" axle match the > >-->old. > >-->> >-->the tag on the old axle shows the BOM number (8953004031) and the 3 > >-->31 > >-->> >-->shows it has 3.31:1 ring and pinion gears. i believe the 43-13 is the > >-->build > >-->> >-->date. > >-->> > >-->> > >-->> no, 43 is the number of teeth on the ring gear, 13 is the number of gears > >-->on the pinion, > >-->> earlier axles didn't have the ratio stamped on it, only the tooth count... > >-->> > >-->> what? you think they put freshness stamps on the gears? ;) > >-->> > >-->> john > >-->> > >-->> >-->make sure that the "new" axle has the same gearing ratio as the old. > >-->else, > >-->> >-->you won't be able to use 4WD. > >-->> >--> > >-->> >-->Neal A. Hoover > >-->> >-->Project '76 J-10 > >-->> >-->Project '96 XJ > >--> > > ---- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** > Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 22:26:23 -0700 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: Re: fsj: Re: '74 mileage A: No time for write up at the moment, but Zach's upgrade is a complete kit AFAIK. You just need to find 12V switched power (the original power wire in all but the 77/78ish Prestolite systems is resistored down to -at-9.5V DC) If you have a points dist, but it has no points, it was probably converted to Pertronix (which is also a good upgrade and can be swapped for points and condenser if they go bad) HEI is high energy ignition. Best way to compare is 110V house current (compared to points), 440V 3 phase (compared to regular electronic ignition) and lightning (compared to HEI) for strengths. The stronger the spark, the faster and cleaner the air/fuel mix is ignited. "Neal Hoover" said: {- as a side note, i also install Zack's HEI distributor and opened up my plug {- gaps to about 0.055" {- it runs flawlessly, and it even starts up faster than my '96 XJ does! {- if you haven't changed ignitions yet, i'd definitely suggest Zack's {- distributor. I've heard lots of people say that everyone should convert over the years, but whenever I looked for any of the stuff they said to convert to, it was basically unavailable, and nobody from any of the stores (local parts stores, Summit, Jeg's, wherever) can find anything about those specialty ignitions for FSJs. So somebody (hint, hint) should write up a permanent web page for John's site detailing (a) what the difference is, the theory behind it (and what IS "HEI"?), and why it's better; (b) EXACTLY what parts to get (a FULL list), including brand and model number and approximate prices and where to get them, and (c) a good, detailed (with pictures!) step-by-step instruction guide of how to do it. (The most I've ever done with a distributor was following a step-by-step instruction list to take out the mechanical advance weights on the '88 for the TBI conversion.) If it involves doing the whole ignition system (people have sworn by Jacobs ignition upgrades, too), what's involved? Would also be nice to touch on the subjects of what will be different in the installation and parts if you have (a) an old points system, or (b) a converted TBI system. (I definitely have the TBI on the '88, but I'm not sure if my '74 is points or not. It has the little window in the distributor cap, but a friend set it once and claimed it didn't actually have points. Beyond changing the cap and rotor and adjusting the timing, I don't know much about the distributor guts.) I don't know if it involves the ignition module directly, but I don't see one on the '74. (I'm certainly familiar with replacing ignition modules on the GWags.) And if it's not too expensive and somebody wants to help me do the conversion on my '74 (I'm in central Iowa), I could take pictures and help write up a nice web page for it. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The only reason people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory. - -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 22:46:34 -0700 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Rear Axle Details 43/13 is the ring gear teeth/pinion teeth (do the math and you get 3.31) The BOM code is stamped into the axle housing on all newer than -at-'75 D44s (people were switching tags and making wild claims at dealerships before that) IIRC, it's a coded stamp, but simple if you know what you're looking for. Dana has a web site that you can punch in the BOM and it'll tell you all you need to know about that particular axle. lemme get into it again over the next couple of days and i'll post to the list. Neal A. Hoover Project '76 J-10 Project '96 XJ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 13:22:51 -0500 From: Subject: fsj: Solenoid Problem / Question... Okay, I made a diagram of how I have my starter solenoid wired and here it is: http://www.iowa4wd.com/albums/album08/82_waggy_starter_solenoid.jpg Can someone tell me if this looks right? I get 12 volts from to battery terminal. When trying to start I get 5 volts on the top red wire. When trying to start I get 12 volts on the blue wire. The black wire off the bottom does not appear to be grounded properly, but even if I bypass it using another ground wire it doesn't make a difference... Can someone see if I'm doing something wrong? If I bypass the solenoid it will try to turn over. This is a brand new solenoid, but I can try the old one too if you think the wiring sounds right and it might be a bad solenoid. Can any of the parts stores (maybe Autozone or Oreillys) test these solenoids? Thanks, Jeremy http://www.iowa4wd.com/ or http://www.jeepinrocks.com/ - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.720 / Virus Database: 476 - Release Date: 7/14/2004 ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #2189 **************************