From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Mon Aug 9 11:12:06 2004 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Monday, August 9 2004 Volume 01 : Number 2209 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: Starter module, again Re: fsj: Starter module, again fsj: Re: Starter module, again fsj: FSJ Golden Eagle fsj: Re: [db] Rebuilding an OM616 fsj: Manuals online fsj: Re: xj: Manuals online fsj: OT-Xfr case question fsj: OT-Axles question... fsj: OT-another Diesel donor fsj: Re: OT-Axles question... fsj: Re: OT-Xfr case question fsj: Re: OT-Axles question... fsj: Re: OT-Xfr case question fsj: Re: Re: OT-Axles question... fsj: Re: Re: OT-Xfr case question fsj: Re: OT-Xfr case question fsj: Re: Manuals online fsj: Re: OT-another Diesel donor fsj: Re: OT-another Diesel donor fsj: Re: [db] OT-Xfr case question fsj: Re: Ooh! Last Wag. on the auction block! FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2004 13:51:11 -0600 From: "Peter B. Steiger" Subject: fsj: Starter module, again Well, I finally had time to take a closer look at that starter module that's giving me grief. Someone suggested the plug connecting the wires coming out of the starter module with the wires going into the coil might not have a good connection and could use a little cleaning, so I got a wire brush and scrubbed around the leads and sockets on both sides of the plug... that didn't help at all. It turns over as long as I turn the key (and the battery doesn't drain), but it never catches. Another suggestion was to remove the plug and just solder the wires directly together, but I'm afraid of doing permanent damage because I'm not sure what hooks up to what. I took some pictures and put them here: http://www.steigerfamily.com/pbs/starter.htm Can someone who knows his way around the ignition system take a look at the pictures and my descriptions, and see if you can suggest the best course of action? Fixing the Jeep has become more urgent now that the Mrs. blew a seal on her 1986 Cadillac and it's billowing smoke whenever she drives it... - ------- Peter B. Steiger Cheyenne, WY ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2004 14:13:56 -0700 From: john meister Subject: Re: fsj: Starter module, again nice pictures... if you're getting any spark at all it should start, good indication that the coil is ok... typically if a coil goes bad you notice a miss at higher rpms or no spark whatsoever.. that is NOT the starter module that's painted a lovely tan, but the ignition module. All your connectors look fine, and your climate is such that corrosion shouldn't be an issue. I'd pull a spark plug, crank and look for a spark across the gap... ya got spark, then I'd pull the input line to the carb base and see if gas is coming out... If ya got gas and ya got spark the next question is the gas getting into the engine... if after cranking you pull another plug and look and smell, if it's wet then you have gas... then the next question is timing... get a timing light and check it... You could also look down the venturis of the carb and see if you see gas squirting when you activate the throttle. I'm thinking you aren't too far from having a functioning FSJ... john Peter B. Steiger wrote: > Well, I finally had time to take a closer look at that starter module > that's giving me grief. Someone suggested the plug connecting the wires > coming out of the starter module with the wires going into the coil > might not have a good connection and could use a little cleaning, so I > got a wire brush and scrubbed around the leads and sockets on both sides > of the plug... that didn't help at all. It turns over as long as I turn > the key (and the battery doesn't drain), but it never catches. > > Another suggestion was to remove the plug and just solder the wires > directly together, but I'm afraid of doing permanent damage because I'm > not sure what hooks up to what. I took some pictures and put them here: > http://www.steigerfamily.com/pbs/starter.htm > > Can someone who knows his way around the ignition system take a look at > the pictures and my descriptions, and see if you can suggest the best > course of action? Fixing the Jeep has become more urgent now that the > Mrs. blew a seal on her 1986 Cadillac and it's billowing smoke whenever > she drives it... > > ------- > Peter B. Steiger > Cheyenne, WY ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 15:29:12 -0700 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: fsj: Re: Starter module, again Your ignition box looks like my voltage regulator! The connector that has trouble is coming off the bottom of the dist. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2004 17:45:26 CDT From: Dan Black Subject: fsj: FSJ Golden Eagle A friend sent me this. '79 Cherokee Golden Eagle (black) w. big lift and tires (35"?), 401. Located in Dallas. Describes it as "90% complete" ... not sure what isn't completed, except he mentions it needs a modified or new custom front drive shaft. $4500, negotiable. I don't know the guy or anything; just passing it along. http://www.jeepsunlimited.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=553381 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I think mauve has the most RAM. -- Pointy Hair - -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2004 20:05:51 -0700 From: john meister Subject: fsj: Re: [db] Rebuilding an OM616 Michigan is only about a leisurely five day drive away... ;) I have a feeling you'll have your motor rebuilt long before Superdawg has his Diesel engine... :) Ran into a snag tonight going over to pickup the 'Burb... Wonderful AMTRAK was running late... way late... in fact, we've gone to dinner, shopping and back home after a cab ride and it still hasn't left the station... we were supposed to be over there about 8:42pm... so we scrubbed the mission... the salesman is going to be nice enough to drive it over for us next weekend. :) Also found out that the axle drop is probably on the passenger side... which means I have to change out the front axle or xfr case. I'm thinking that there is a reclocking kit available to mate my Jeep xfr case to the Chevy/GMC transmission... I hope so. :) But it wouldn't be all that bad to swap out the front axle, I think the one on SuperDawg had been damaged at some point... john Jason R Bassett wrote: > Speaking of tired engines, I have one. I know that the thing has low > compression on at least one cylinder (probably two) and I suspect that > one or more of the bearings is worn (not fried, but not real nice either; > I hear a whine which matches the engine speed.) So......I figure I might > just rebuild the thing (once I pick up a clunker to drive in the mean > time) but I have no rebuilding experience. How hard would it be? What > would I need to do? This comes to mind: > > New rod bearings > New crankshaft end bearings > New rings > Hone cylinders > New timing chain > Degunk entire thing > New head gasket and bolts > Possibly redo valves (but I think they're OK) > > I figure the sooner I do it the better; how long should it take? I really > don't want to run it until something gives up if there's any other way. > How much would a crate OM616 be? I have a feeling I don't really want to > know.......what about the rebuild pieces I would need? I am almost > utterly ignorant on the topic, though fairly handy (an avid > do-it-yourselfer.) If it helps, I do have a pit available. > > BTW, I wish shadowfax were in MI.......... > > Jason > > ________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2004 23:07:04 -0500 From: Jeep Nut Subject: fsj: Manuals online I can hardly believe this folks but this site: http://natecovington.com/jeep/service_manuals.htm has 2 and a half Factory Service Manuals in .pdf format for XJs. A 2000 and a 1988 complete and a 1993 partial. 17Mb to download the 88 Manual... not bad for broadband users. But if you're on dial up it's a all nighter. ;-) I've already got a hardcopy '92 FSM, so its nice to have an older one for my '87.... JeepNut ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2004 23:07:11 -0700 From: john meister Subject: fsj: Re: xj: Manuals online nice... thanx! john Jeep Nut wrote: > I can hardly believe this folks but this site: > > http://natecovington.com/jeep/service_manuals.htm > > has 2 and a half Factory Service Manuals in .pdf format for XJs. > A 2000 and a 1988 complete and a 1993 partial. > > 17Mb to download the 88 Manual... not bad for broadband users. But if > you're on dial up it's a all nighter. ;-) I've already got a hardcopy > '92 FSM, so its nice to have an older one for my '87.... > > JeepNut ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2004 23:11:44 -0700 From: john meister Subject: fsj: OT-Xfr case question I was heading over to Wenatchee tonight to get the '84 Suburban, but AMTRAK was running 3 hours late so we went home... I picked up a little nickel and found an '83 GMC Jimmy with the 6.2L... no turbo... test drove it and made an offer... really, really like that 6.2L Diesel... it's going to work superbly in my J10. Anyway, question I've got is can the XFR case on the GMC/700R4 be swapped out with a Jeep Xfr case so I get a driver's side drop? Anybody have one that's seen the back end? If I reclock it can I put a driver's side drop in there or use a Jeep xfr case? Otherwise I'll have to use a different front axle... (Elliott, do you still have the J10 front axle with that section of frame I gave you? You had to move to Texas didn't ya? ;) Heading down to get the '75 J10 hydraulic dump bed trailer with the little cherokee tomorrow... :) thanx, john ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2004 23:34:18 -0700 From: john meister Subject: fsj: OT-Axles question... Looking at the GMC Jimmy/Suburban, and the Jeep specs... the width on the axles appears to be pretty close... It looks like the GMC axles have springs more inboard then the Jeep... but I'm sure new perches could be welded on... Are the GM axles better then the Jeeps? Would solve a few problems if I could just swap axles... Looks like the 6.2L Diesels run 3.73 gear ratios... I started to go with 4.10's on my J10... I don't think the 700R4 would give me enough of an overdrive so going to 3.73's might be necessary to make full use of the engine. 3.73's have always seemed to be a "good" 4x4 ratio... and with an overdrive even better. :) later, john ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2004 23:41:47 -0700 From: john meister Subject: fsj: OT-another Diesel donor I went and looked at an '83 Jimmy with the 6.2L tonight... man, I love that engine... this thing ran out great... I'm $500 short of buying it though... :( maybe I'll get it for what I bid... Anyway... here's some pix of the engine/axles... http://www.wagoneers.com/SuperDawg/DawgYear2004/JimmyDiesel/ One thing is for certain... I don't NEED the turbo on this engine to be happy. :) I'm also not regretting selling my '83 Jimmy... these things feel massive... :) john ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 23:56:29 -0700 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: fsj: Re: OT-Axles question... A: The axles are opposite side drop, so you'll need the front at least. It bolts in the front (but it's a SOA) and rear needs pads welded on. My son and I are putting a Dana 61 (not a misprint) from an E350 van into his '83 Cherokee WT. We still need 8 lug stuff for the front to match. The front steering will need work to use the Chev axle. (mine is already done!) Looking at the GMC Jimmy/Suburban, and the Jeep specs... the width on the axles appears to be pretty close... It looks like the GMC axles have springs more inboard then the Jeep... but I'm sure new perches could be welded on... Are the GM axles better then the Jeeps? Would solve a few problems if I could just swap axles... Looks like the 6.2L Diesels run 3.73 gear ratios... I started to go with 4.10's on my J10... I don't think the 700R4 would give me enough of an overdrive so going to 3.73's might be necessary to make full use of the engine. 3.73's have always seemed to be a "good" 4x4 ratio... and with an overdrive even better. :) later, john ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 00:00:59 -0700 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: fsj: Re: OT-Xfr case question A: AMwreck can be a pain! They are putting in a commuter train right down the middle of Rainier ave here (they expect it to "cure" the traffic problem! Yeah right! How will cars cross the road? How many train car/kid/FSJ accidents will happen now?) The Chev NP208 Tcase has to be dismantled and Jeep NP208 oiler parts put in to do the flip. I was heading over to Wenatchee tonight to get the '84 Suburban, but AMTRAK was running 3 hours late so we went home... I picked up a little nickel and found an '83 GMC Jimmy with the 6.2L... no turbo... test drove it and made an offer... really, really like that 6.2L Diesel... it's going to work superbly in my J10. Anyway, question I've got is can the XFR case on the GMC/700R4 be swapped out with a Jeep Xfr case so I get a driver's side drop? Anybody have one that's seen the back end? If I reclock it can I put a driver's side drop in there or use a Jeep xfr case? Otherwise I'll have to use a different front axle... (Elliott, do you still have the J10 front axle with that section of frame I gave you? You had to move to Texas didn't ya? ;) Heading down to get the '75 J10 hydraulic dump bed trailer with the little cherokee tomorrow... :) thanx, john ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 00:02:21 -0700 From: john meister Subject: fsj: Re: OT-Axles question... yes Jim, I know it's an opposite side drop... that's why I asked about reclocking the xfr case... but looking at the axles and specs, the width is about the same, this would solve my gearing issues as well... would get me 3.73's... only drawback is I have a brand new in the box electrax for my D44 4.10... :( and a new R&P 4.10 for the front... I suppose I could exchange the electrax for the one for the GM... what kind of axles are they??? Assuming that the Jimmy will have the same axles as the 1/2T 'burb... I took pictures tonight... will be talking to the salesman again on the 'burb with the turbo... he mentioned that it smoked... hard to decide like this... :) john Jim Blair wrote: > A: The axles are opposite side drop, so you'll need the front at least. It > bolts in the front (but it's a SOA) and rear needs pads welded on. My son > and I are putting a Dana 61 (not a misprint) from an E350 van into his '83 > Cherokee WT. We still need 8 lug stuff for the front to match. The front > steering will need work to use the Chev axle. (mine is already done!) > > > > Looking at the GMC Jimmy/Suburban, and the Jeep specs... the width > on the axles appears to be pretty close... It looks like the GMC axles > have springs more inboard then the Jeep... but I'm sure new perches > could be welded on... > > Are the GM axles better then the Jeeps? Would solve a few problems if > I could just swap axles... Looks like the 6.2L Diesels run 3.73 gear > ratios... I started to go with 4.10's on my J10... I don't think the > 700R4 would give me enough of an overdrive so going to 3.73's might be > necessary to make full use of the engine. > > 3.73's have always seemed to be a "good" 4x4 ratio... and with an overdrive > even better. :) > > later, > john ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 00:04:58 -0700 From: john meister Subject: fsj: Re: OT-Xfr case question Jim Blair wrote: The Chev NP208 Tcase has to be > dismantled and Jeep NP208 oiler parts put in to do the flip. that doesn't sound too bad... that would allow me to keep my D44's fore and aft then... Could I use my NP219? I'm not opposed to using my NP208, it's a good xfr case as well... either way, I'm not opposed to using the GM 208 with some mods if I don't have to do too much to axles/gears... john > > > Anyway, question I've got is can the XFR case on the GMC/700R4 be swapped > out with a Jeep Xfr case so I get a driver's side drop? > > Anybody have one that's seen the back end? If I reclock it can I put > a driver's side drop in there or use a Jeep xfr case? > > Otherwise I'll have to use a different front axle... > > (Elliott, do you still have the J10 front axle with that section of > frame I gave you? You had to move to Texas didn't ya? ;) > > Heading down to get the '75 J10 hydraulic dump bed trailer with > the little cherokee tomorrow... :) > > thanx, > john ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 00:05:45 -0700 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: fsj: Re: Re: OT-Axles question... A: I didn't see the clocking post till after I replied (my email runs newest to oldest) The Burb will probably have 14 bolt full float rear if 3/4 ton. 1/2 ton could have a 6 lug semifloat 12 bolt (14 on the cover, but only 12 on the carrier. Not even as strong as a D44 or Model 20) yes Jim, I know it's an opposite side drop... that's why I asked about reclocking the xfr case... but looking at the axles and specs, the width is about the same, this would solve my gearing issues as well... would get me 3.73's... only drawback is I have a brand new in the box electrax for my D44 4.10... :( and a new R&P 4.10 for the front... I suppose I could exchange the electrax for the one for the GM... what kind of axles are they??? Assuming that the Jimmy will have the same axles as the 1/2T 'burb... I took pictures tonight... will be talking to the salesman again on the 'burb with the turbo... he mentioned that it smoked... hard to decide like this... :) john ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 00:07:05 -0700 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: fsj: Re: Re: OT-Xfr case question A: You would have to run the Chev NP208 input gear in the NP219 (If it will fit. I'm only 55% sure it will) Jim Blair wrote: The Chev NP208 Tcase has to be > dismantled and Jeep NP208 oiler parts put in to do the flip. that doesn't sound too bad... that would allow me to keep my D44's fore and aft then... Could I use my NP219? I'm not opposed to using my NP208, it's a good xfr case as well... either way, I'm not opposed to using the GM 208 with some mods if I don't have to do too much to axles/gears... john ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 00:10:36 -0700 From: john meister Subject: fsj: Re: OT-Xfr case question Jim, if you're giving those kinds of odds I ain't bettin'. ;) so it sounds like I could reclock the Chevy NP208, using some Jeep parts to flip it over... And, it sounds like my D44 axles are stronger then the ones on the 1/2T GM, right? thanx, john Jim Blair wrote: > A: You would have to run the Chev NP208 input gear in the NP219 (If it will > fit. I'm only 55% sure it will) > > > Jim Blair wrote: > The Chev NP208 Tcase has to be > >>dismantled and Jeep NP208 oiler parts put in to do the flip. > > > that doesn't sound too bad... that would allow me to keep my D44's fore > and aft then... > > Could I use my NP219? I'm not opposed to using my NP208, it's a good > xfr case as well... > > either way, I'm not opposed to using the GM 208 with some mods if > I don't have to do too much to axles/gears... > > john ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 05:58:45 -0400 From: "Neal Hoover" Subject: fsj: Re: Manuals online speaking of manuals, anyone have any idea where i can get an FSM for a mid-80s Toyota pickup for cheap? Neal A. Hoover Project '76 J-10 Project '96 XJ - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeep Nut" To: "XJ List" ; "FSJ List" Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 12:07 AM Subject: fsj: Manuals online > I can hardly believe this folks but this site: > > http://natecovington.com/jeep/service_manuals.htm > > has 2 and a half Factory Service Manuals in .pdf format for XJs. > A 2000 and a 1988 complete and a 1993 partial. > > 17Mb to download the 88 Manual... not bad for broadband users. But if > you're on dial up it's a all nighter. ;-) > I've already got a hardcopy '92 FSM, so its nice to have an older one > for my '87.... > > JeepNut ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 06:10:13 -0400 From: "Neal Hoover" Subject: fsj: Re: OT-another Diesel donor man, you're gunna be KICKIN' yourself if you don't get the turbo. more power is good. ;) AFA the axles go, it looks like the front is a corporate 10-bolt and the rear a 12-bolt. i'd definitely go for the jeep front D44, but the rear 12-bolt is right in the same ball park as the 44. fewer locker selections for the 12-bolt, of course. Neal A. Hoover Project '76 J-10 Project '96 XJ - ----- Original Message ----- From: "john meister" To: "fsj list" ; "xj" ; "'dbl'" Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 2:41 AM Subject: fsj: OT-another Diesel donor > I went and looked at an '83 Jimmy with the 6.2L tonight... man, I love > that engine... this thing ran out great... I'm $500 short of buying it > though... :( maybe I'll get it for what I bid... > > Anyway... here's some pix of the engine/axles... > http://www.wagoneers.com/SuperDawg/DawgYear2004/JimmyDiesel/ > > One thing is for certain... I don't NEED the turbo on this engine > to be happy. :) I'm also not regretting selling my '83 Jimmy... these > things feel massive... :) > > john ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 09:26:04 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: OT-another Diesel donor after driving that naturally aspirated 6.2L I know it'll be fine... the turbo creates additional issues... john On Mon, 9 Aug 2004, Neal Hoover wrote: >-->man, you're gunna be KICKIN' yourself if you don't get the turbo. more >-->power is good. ;) >-->AFA the axles go, it looks like the front is a corporate 10-bolt and the >-->rear a 12-bolt. i'd definitely go for the jeep front D44, but the rear >-->12-bolt is right in the same ball park as the 44. >-->fewer locker selections for the 12-bolt, of course. >--> >-->Neal A. Hoover >-->Project '76 J-10 >-->Project '96 XJ >-->----- Original Message ----- >-->From: "john meister" >-->To: "fsj list" ; "xj" ; "'dbl'" >--> >-->Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 2:41 AM >-->Subject: fsj: OT-another Diesel donor >--> >--> >-->> I went and looked at an '83 Jimmy with the 6.2L tonight... man, I love >-->> that engine... this thing ran out great... I'm $500 short of buying it >-->> though... :( maybe I'll get it for what I bid... >-->> >-->> Anyway... here's some pix of the engine/axles... >-->> http://www.wagoneers.com/SuperDawg/DawgYear2004/JimmyDiesel/ >-->> >-->> One thing is for certain... I don't NEED the turbo on this engine >-->> to be happy. :) I'm also not regretting selling my '83 Jimmy... these >-->> things feel massive... :) >-->> >-->> john >-->> >--> >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 09:58:27 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: [db] OT-Xfr case question way cool. what is an NP241? just a regular part time case? john On Mon, 9 Aug 2004, John E Culver wrote: >-->Use a NP241 transfer case frone a 88 or newer GM Pick-up the drop is on >-->driverside. >-->JEC >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 10:06:23 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: Ooh! Last Wag. on the auction block! On Mon, 9 Aug 2004, Michael Baxter wrote: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=2485975797 WHY? ( and why can't I afford it? :) seems wrong to sell this museum piece... :( john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #2209 **************************