From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Tue Aug 31 22:30:34 2004 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Wednesday, September 1 2004 Volume 01 : Number 2232 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: RE: fsj: Re: RE: 89 GW To Do's Re: fsj: Re: RE: 89 GW To Do's Re: fsj: Re: RE: 89 GW To Do's Re: fsj: Re: RE: 89 GW To Do's Re: fsj: (no subject) fsj: Re: Fw: Rez is on it's way to Memphis fsj: Monster Garage(s) reporting in from Wettern Washington FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 21:15:00 -0500 From: Subject: RE: fsj: Re: RE: 89 GW To Do's I just checked that out... I wish it had a price on the page, but I emailed him to find out how much so I hope I hear about it. I've already converted the boat to the HEI and my van, and YJ have it on the GM motors already so I'd love to put it on my AMC to. This is the page that I found: http://www.zmjeeps.com/hei.php Later, Jeremy http://www.iowa4wd.com http://www.jeepinrocks.com - -----Original Message----- From: john [mailto:john-at-wagoneers.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 9:09 PM To: Neal Hoover Cc: fsj-at-digest.net Subject: Re: fsj: Re: RE: 89 GW To Do's got a link to it? probably won't use it on the Diesel J10... or on the 4.0L conversion... but still sounds interesting. :) john On Tue, 31 Aug 2004, Neal Hoover wrote: >-->this may be just me, but i don't know why Zack's HEI ignition upgrade >-->shouldn't be a shoe-in on everyone's upgrade list. it's affordable, and (by >-->HEI standards), very reliable, and a huge improvement over the stock >-->schtuff. plus, it gets rid of all that junk on the fender well. >-->and no, i have no vested interest in zmjeeps.com >--> >-->Neal A. Hoover >-->Project '76 J-10 >-->Project '96 XJ >-->----- Original Message ----- >-->From: "Tesar Landon-r16884" >-->To: ; >-->Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 7:21 PM >-->Subject: fsj: RE: 89 GW To Do's >--> >--> >-->> Change the oil a few times to get the sludge out/off. Pulling the valve >-->covers is more of a pain than it looks, but a good place to clean. >-->> For the starter, I'd look at the the ignition switch for 12V going to the >-->solenoid in run position, then to the solenoid for staying engaged on, a tap >-->with a hammer while engaged may reveal that it is sticking. >-->> >-->> Heavy carbon at the tailpipe - probably the power valve (aka Economizer >-->valve in the carb rebuild kit instructions) You can get these seperately >-->special ordered from NAPA, probably get the later one, though Jim says to >-->get one from a 69 Ford pickup with 390 cid for improved mileage. (I think >-->there may be only two versions) This one will be especially obvious if you >-->have billows of smoke at full throttle and lousy gas mileage(9mpg) Before >-->you order the part, check that there is vacuum going to the front of the >-->base of the carb (not the carbon cannister line, and not the distributor >-->advance line) This vacuum line sucks the power valve closed at part >-->throttle, and it opens up at full throttle. If it's open all the time, you >-->know you've got carbon coming. >-->> Yup, the TFI upgrade is good. I'd try to find an MSD version of the TFI >-->coil. Very tough, after not such good luck with pretenders. >-->> See instructions on lubing the rear window...and chassis lube in general, >-->and the double cardan joint, and the transfer case fluid (ATF, not gear >-->lube, regardless of what the PO thought) and two leads from the alternator >-->to the battery for charge circuit and grouds from chassis to engine to frame >-->to chassis to battery to hitch (yes the trailer hitch was insulated, don't >-->ask me how) >-->> What temp is it running at? Thermostat should be 192-195. PO may have >-->put in a 160. >-->> Get the longest fresh air intake hose you can and run it to the port by >-->the battery. >-->> Replace the hoses between the radiator and the hard lines to the >-->transmission. Fuel filter. Get a spare duraspark module or an MSD box. >-->Get a stereo you can actually listen to...OK, OK >-->> >-->> Have fun. >-->> >-->> Landon >-->> 89 GW >-->> -----Original Message----- >-->> From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of >-->Smokey99908-at-aol.com >-->> Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 6:04 PM >-->> To: fsj-at-digest.net >-->> Subject: fsj: (no subject) >-->> >-->> >-->> Hi Folks (blinks lites to FSJers), >-->> >-->> Well Ive got the bug now, registered an 89 GW today (finally) and have an >-->88 >-->> 4cyl cherokee. And some Qs about the GW i bought from g/f. >-->> >-->> When starting it, the starter stays engaged for about 30 secs after the >-->> engine starts. It also appears to run on 7 cyl.s at first, missing for a >-->few >-->> minutes; and has heavy carbon buildup at tailpipe. Does this sound >-->familiar to >-->> anyone? >-->> >-->> My plans are to do a fresh tuneup with the TFI ugrade Ive read about. >-->Other >-->> upgrades will have to wait until the typical FSJ/GW problems get resolved >-->> (slow windows/doorlocks, fuel sending unit, fluid leaks, rust), power >-->steering >-->> pump and fender/rocker panel sheet metal etc. Oh, I would like a backup >-->fuel >-->> pump as it vapor locked a few months ago. >-->> >-->> Any recomendation or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. >-->> >-->> Thanks, Bob >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- - --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.745 / Virus Database: 497 - Release Date: 8/27/2004 - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.745 / Virus Database: 497 - Release Date: 8/27/2004 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 20:32:29 -0700 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: fsj: Re: RE: 89 GW To Do's On Tue, Aug 31, 2004 at 09:45:09PM -0400, Neal Hoover wrote: > this may be just me, but i don't know why Zack's HEI ignition upgrade > shouldn't be a shoe-in on everyone's upgrade list. it's affordable, and (by > HEI standards), very reliable, and a huge improvement over the stock > schtuff. plus, it gets rid of all that junk on the fender well. > and no, i have no vested interest in zmjeeps.com It really depends on what you are starting with. Your rig is a 76, so you have the infernal prestolite stuff I have on my 77. In that case, HEI or an upgrade to duraspark is a definite good idea. Whichever you choose really doesn't matter - either one is a huge step up. If converting to HEI, Zack's kit is the way to go. It is very simple to install and very clean. Due to the nature of HEI, everything is tucked under the cap, so HEI tends to be a little bit more tolerant of water hitting it. (Carry WD-40 just in case.) It also gets rid of the extra wires connecting the ignition module to the stuff under the rotor, etc, etc. very cool. If converting to Duraspark, the parts exist in junkyards on anything made after 79. Early (pre-82ish) wasn't as good as later, and if you go duraspark, you're better off using TFI parts, as it provides better spark. You have to be careful about wires and have to keep modules cool, but if you have to pass emissions, the box with the AMC logo on it raises less eyebrows than a notoriously GM rotor sticking out. Early duraspark in jeeps and fords wasn't all that great, but it improved as time went on. Me, I would go with the duraspark on an AMC v8 because the HEI cap is really obnoxiously big, and kinda gets in the way in the front. Duraspark can also be looked over by a smog guy, because it almost looks like it belongs. If not, showing him the parts book should finish it off. If neither of these is part of your criteria, HEI is definately simpler. OR, you could just have a points distributor, like my 74. (Wonder if that's enough to get JC out of the woodwork ). K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) 74 Cherokee 2 door (258 1bbl, T15, D20, open 3.54 d44's) 77 Cherokee 4 door S (401 4bbl, TH400, BW QT, open 3.54 d44's) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 23:48:45 -0400 From: "Neal Hoover" Subject: Re: fsj: Re: RE: 89 GW To Do's yup. that's the one. send him an e-mail and he will forward you pricing. IIRC, i got mine for around $285 or so (can't remember right now.) i really like it a ton. and that includes everything to make it run except your stock distributor gear (which comes off the old dist), and HEI plug wires. one-wire hook-up is true. the dist also has a place to hook up a tach very easily if you desire, too. of course, my rig isn't on the road yet, but the chassis and drivetrain are complete. the thing fires up quicker than my '96 XJ does, and runs VERY strong. i can't wait to get the body work finished so i can get it out on the road! so, a big "YES." i highly recommend them. OH - and please, in your e-mails to him to request pricing, please mention my name as a reference. it may constitute a slight price break for you, but you never know. Neal A. Hoover Project '76 J-10 Project '96 XJ - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Fsj" Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 10:15 PM Subject: RE: fsj: Re: RE: 89 GW To Do's > I just checked that out... I wish it had a price on the page, but I emailed > him to find out how much so I hope I hear about it. I've already converted > the boat to the HEI and my van, and YJ have it on the GM motors already so > I'd love to put it on my AMC to. This is the page that I found: > > http://www.zmjeeps.com/hei.php > > Later, > > Jeremy > http://www.iowa4wd.com > http://www.jeepinrocks.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: john [mailto:john-at-wagoneers.com] > Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 9:09 PM > To: Neal Hoover > Cc: fsj-at-digest.net > Subject: Re: fsj: Re: RE: 89 GW To Do's > > > got a link to it? > > probably won't use it on the Diesel J10... or > on the 4.0L conversion... but still sounds interesting. :) > > john > > On Tue, 31 Aug 2004, Neal Hoover wrote: > > >-->this may be just me, but i don't know why Zack's HEI ignition upgrade > >-->shouldn't be a shoe-in on everyone's upgrade list. it's affordable, and > (by > >-->HEI standards), very reliable, and a huge improvement over the stock > >-->schtuff. plus, it gets rid of all that junk on the fender well. > >-->and no, i have no vested interest in zmjeeps.com > >--> > >-->Neal A. Hoover > >-->Project '76 J-10 > >-->Project '96 XJ > >-->----- Original Message ----- > >-->From: "Tesar Landon-r16884" > >-->To: ; > >-->Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 7:21 PM > >-->Subject: fsj: RE: 89 GW To Do's > >--> > >--> > >-->> Change the oil a few times to get the sludge out/off. Pulling the > valve > >-->covers is more of a pain than it looks, but a good place to clean. > >-->> For the starter, I'd look at the the ignition switch for 12V going to > the > >-->solenoid in run position, then to the solenoid for staying engaged on, a > tap > >-->with a hammer while engaged may reveal that it is sticking. > >-->> > >-->> Heavy carbon at the tailpipe - probably the power valve (aka > Economizer > >-->valve in the carb rebuild kit instructions) You can get these seperately > >-->special ordered from NAPA, probably get the later one, though Jim says > to > >-->get one from a 69 Ford pickup with 390 cid for improved mileage. (I > think > >-->there may be only two versions) This one will be especially obvious if > you > >-->have billows of smoke at full throttle and lousy gas mileage(9mpg) > Before > >-->you order the part, check that there is vacuum going to the front of the > >-->base of the carb (not the carbon cannister line, and not the distributor > >-->advance line) This vacuum line sucks the power valve closed at part > >-->throttle, and it opens up at full throttle. If it's open all the time, > you > >-->know you've got carbon coming. > >-->> Yup, the TFI upgrade is good. I'd try to find an MSD version of the > TFI > >-->coil. Very tough, after not such good luck with pretenders. > >-->> See instructions on lubing the rear window...and chassis lube in > general, > >-->and the double cardan joint, and the transfer case fluid (ATF, not gear > >-->lube, regardless of what the PO thought) and two leads from the > alternator > >-->to the battery for charge circuit and grouds from chassis to engine to > frame > >-->to chassis to battery to hitch (yes the trailer hitch was insulated, > don't > >-->ask me how) > >-->> What temp is it running at? Thermostat should be 192-195. PO may > have > >-->put in a 160. > >-->> Get the longest fresh air intake hose you can and run it to the port > by > >-->the battery. > >-->> Replace the hoses between the radiator and the hard lines to the > >-->transmission. Fuel filter. Get a spare duraspark module or an MSD box. > >-->Get a stereo you can actually listen to...OK, OK > >-->> > >-->> Have fun. > >-->> > >-->> Landon > >-->> 89 GW > >-->> -----Original Message----- > >-->> From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of > >-->Smokey99908-at-aol.com > >-->> Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 6:04 PM > >-->> To: fsj-at-digest.net > >-->> Subject: fsj: (no subject) > >-->> > >-->> > >-->> Hi Folks (blinks lites to FSJers), > >-->> > >-->> Well Ive got the bug now, registered an 89 GW today (finally) and have > an > >-->88 > >-->> 4cyl cherokee. And some Qs about the GW i bought from g/f. > >-->> > >-->> When starting it, the starter stays engaged for about 30 secs after > the > >-->> engine starts. It also appears to run on 7 cyl.s at first, missing for > a > >-->few > >-->> minutes; and has heavy carbon buildup at tailpipe. Does this sound > >-->familiar to > >-->> anyone? > >-->> > >-->> My plans are to do a fresh tuneup with the TFI ugrade Ive read about. > >-->Other > >-->> upgrades will have to wait until the typical FSJ/GW problems get > resolved > >-->> (slow windows/doorlocks, fuel sending unit, fluid leaks, rust), power > >-->steering > >-->> pump and fender/rocker panel sheet metal etc. Oh, I would like a > backup > >-->fuel > >-->> pump as it vapor locked a few months ago. > >-->> > >-->> Any recomendation or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. > >-->> > >-->> Thanks, Bob > >--> > > ---- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** > Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > --- > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.745 / Virus Database: 497 - Release Date: 8/27/2004 > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.745 / Virus Database: 497 - Release Date: 8/27/2004 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 23:57:25 -0400 From: "Neal Hoover" Subject: Re: fsj: Re: RE: 89 GW To Do's what exactly is Duraspark? it's a ford product, right? AFA size goes, the HEI is larger than the stock unit, but it's not really in the way. i set the #1 cylinder to the TDC position, and dropped the dist in where it would have the widest range of adjustability without hitting anything. tucks in quite nicely, actually. luckily, i don't have to deal with the smog guys here in louisville, as any vehicle that is over 20 years old is smog exempt. go figure. Neal A. Hoover Project '76 J-10 Project '96 XJ - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Pekarek" To: Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 11:32 PM Subject: Re: fsj: Re: RE: 89 GW To Do's > On Tue, Aug 31, 2004 at 09:45:09PM -0400, Neal Hoover wrote: > > this may be just me, but i don't know why Zack's HEI ignition upgrade > > shouldn't be a shoe-in on everyone's upgrade list. it's affordable, and (by > > HEI standards), very reliable, and a huge improvement over the stock > > schtuff. plus, it gets rid of all that junk on the fender well. > > and no, i have no vested interest in zmjeeps.com > > It really depends on what you are starting with. Your rig is a 76, so you > have the infernal prestolite stuff I have on my 77. In that case, HEI or > an upgrade to duraspark is a definite good idea. Whichever you choose > really doesn't matter - either one is a huge step up. > > If converting to HEI, Zack's kit is the way to go. It is very simple to > install and very clean. Due to the nature of HEI, everything is tucked under > the cap, so HEI tends to be a little bit more tolerant of water hitting > it. (Carry WD-40 just in case.) It also gets rid of the extra wires connecting > the ignition module to the stuff under the rotor, etc, etc. very cool. > > If converting to Duraspark, the parts exist in junkyards on anything made > after 79. Early (pre-82ish) wasn't as good as later, and if you go duraspark, > you're better off using TFI parts, as it provides better spark. You have > to be careful about wires and have to keep modules cool, but if you have > to pass emissions, the box with the AMC logo on it raises less eyebrows than > a notoriously GM rotor sticking out. Early duraspark in jeeps and fords > wasn't all that great, but it improved as time went on. > > Me, I would go with the duraspark on an AMC v8 because the HEI cap is > really obnoxiously big, and kinda gets in the way in the front. Duraspark > can also be looked over by a smog guy, because it almost looks like it > belongs. If not, showing him the parts book should finish it off. If neither > of these is part of your criteria, HEI is definately simpler. > > OR, you could just have a points distributor, like my 74. (Wonder if that's > enough to get JC out of the woodwork ). > > K > > -- > Kevin Pekarek > Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and > Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) > 74 Cherokee 2 door (258 1bbl, T15, D20, open 3.54 d44's) > 77 Cherokee 4 door S (401 4bbl, TH400, BW QT, open 3.54 d44's) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 23:07:55 -0500 From: Jeep Nut Subject: Re: fsj: (no subject) Hi Kevin, I followed some instructions from a site where they described in great detail the installation of a bunch of Ford parts and have been really pleased with the setup so far on my '88 360. Here's what they said to get... What To Use For Replacement: FROM: From A 1984 Ford F-350 Truck With A 460 CID Engine With ECC. Distributor Cap Base, Distributor Cap, Rotor, Spark Plug Wires, & Ignition Coil So this Ignition Coil, is this the "TFI module" to which you refer that doesn't like heat? ( I didn't change the "brainbox". Still using the AMC one.) I just got back this morning from Chicago area having towed Vince Orr's Rez Runner back to Memphis. Yesterday she started getting really rough and it is coming and going today as well. It's sputtering and shuddering, missing then it smooths out, then again gagging and missing.... is this likely the coil going bad? I mounted the coil up on top of the engine right where the old coil was mounted (with a custom bracket of course) so I guess it is definately getting hot. Once this behavoir starts, will it get better if I move the coil? Or is it now toasted? If it is the TFI coil going bad I really dodged a bullet cause she made it all the way home. I guess since it's in a JEEP and not a Ford, then it didn't dare leave me stranded. LOL... Thanks for any info on this topic. Oh, btw, the site I got the detail from mentions NOTHING about how sensitive to heat the buggers are.... nice.... Thanks for "the rest of the story". JeepNut Kevin Pekarek wrote: >On Tue, Aug 31, 2004 at 04:28:05PM -0700, john wrote: > > >>not sure what TFI is... if it's throttle body fuel injection, >>you bet... recommend Howell Engineering's version. :) >> >> > >Ford's Thin Film Ignition, appearing starting in 83-85 somewhere, and >ending in 93. (82 wagon didn't have it, 85 ranger and 86 wagon did, 93 bronco >did, 94 crown vic didn't). Basically, Duraspark on steroids. > >Be ware, the TFI module is hypersensitive to heat, hence Found On Road Dead. >If the module overheats, it *WILL* strand you, so pay careful attention to >where you put the module. > >Performancewise, it ranks right up there above HEI for ungodly hot spark, >and does not drop off at high RPM like HEI can stock, but HEI is far >simpler if you don't need to worry about it not looking stock. > >If you do a TFI upgrade, the ford v8s I've played with that had it liked >the gap to be huge - like around .055 or so. Running around with a stock >gap doesn't help much with a TFI upgrade. > >There's tons of stuff out on the web about it and what it does and how the >upgrade goes. I've never done the upgrade on a ford, much less an amc or jeep >with duraspark. > >K ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 00:04:53 -0500 From: Jeep Nut Subject: fsj: Re: Fw: Rez is on it's way to Memphis See, I did it again. Another camera bites the dust. ;-) You should have made sure not to get ME in the shots. Dang! I wish they had turned out. I don't think I have any pictures of the Waggie.... One of these days I'll get one of those digital cameras.... just as soon as they are obsolete I'll be able to afford one...LOL On a side note... just got back to Memphis this morning. I had to stop about 11 last night and get some sleep. I was dozing, the Waggie as gagging.... just too tired (me AND the Waggie).... and get this...I got home, unhooked the Rez and parked her in the line. (I've GOT to get a picture of all the Jeeps here in the drive now) :-D Then I started mowing that durn grass and the cellphone rings. The wifey is stuck at Kmart with the XJ down!! I hadn't been back for more than about 2 hours. That tow bar has already paid for itself! ROFLMAO... Towed the Rez in on it this morning, towed the XJ home with it this afternoon. Life's a hoot....or something... :-P I've got 3 SJ's and XJ and an MJ out here and only one runs. (and it isn't doing so well). I think I'm qualified as a real Jeeper now. ;-) JeepNuttier-than-a-fruitcake.... Vince Orr wrote: > FYI > Pictures didn't focus right, I think my camera has a problem. > --Vince > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "john" > To: "Vince Orr" > Cc: "full size jeep list" > Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 2:36 PM > Subject: Re: Rez is on it's way to Memphis > > >> >> Vince... does your camera have a "focus" option? ;) >> >> john >> >> http://www.wagoneers.com/FSJ/rigs/Rez/ >> >> >> On Mon, 30 Aug 2004, Vince Orr wrote: >> >>> -->JeepNut (Steve) showed up today to haul off the Rez Runner. >>> --> >>> -->Had to install a tow bar and Steve made a home made light bar for >>> the back >>> -->end. >>> --> >>> -->We had a nice lunch and he taught my grandson how to grunt like >>> Tim Allen! >>> -->:) >>> --> >>> -->Here are some pictures of the rig that is heading to Memphis as >>> we speak. >>> --> >>> -->--Vince (currently without an FSJ) >>> --> >>> --> >>> --> >>> --> >>> --> >> >> >> ---- >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** >> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 22:23:38 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: Monster Garage(s) reporting in from Wettern Washington no, I did not misspell "wettern". ;) http://www.wagoneers.com/FSJ/Johns-Projects/Aug-31-2004.html The Dieselification of the '79 Golden Eagle has commenced. My neighbor's son just stepped up to make an offer on the GMC hulk. Curtis is saying first week of October... this year... going to be cool... more pix later, john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #2232 **************************