From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Mon Sep 6 15:41:39 2004 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Monday, September 6 2004 Volume 01 : Number 2238 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: fsj: tuneup time! Re: fsj: tuneup time! Re: fsj: Re: Inspection Questions Re: fsj: Re: Inspection Questions fsj: Re: xj: Re: fleet changes... Re: fsj: tuneup time! fsj: another twist in the fractured tale of the clearview monster garage saga... Re: fsj: another twist in the fractured tale of the clearview monster garage saga... Re: fsj: another twist in the fractured tale of the clearview monster garage saga... Re: fsj: tuneup time! Re: fsj: another twist in the fractured tale of the clearview monster garage saga... FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 05 Sep 2004 23:17:27 -0500 From: Jeep Nut Subject: Re: fsj: tuneup time! Now THATs what I like to see... somebody who's getting their moneys worth from their parts... :-D I thought they quit with the MTBE? You're not on the Canadian side are you? Jim Blair wrote: >My J4000 started acting a little weird when I filled up on my way to dump a >3600lb load of scrap steel. I figured it was time for a tuneup. Here's a few >pics: > > >http://www.snort4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=109322#post109322://www.snort4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=109322#post109322> ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2004 21:22:07 -0700 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: Re: fsj: tuneup time! A: It's still being dumped in WA state's fuel. I think I caught the first batch of it, or some really bad gas at my regular chain stations. (Safeway supermarkets here) Now THATs what I like to see... somebody who's getting their moneys worth from their parts... :-D I thought they quit with the MTBE? You're not on the Canadian side are you? Jim Blair wrote: >My J4000 started acting a little weird when I filled up on my way to dump a >3600lb load of scrap steel. I figured it was time for a tuneup. Here's a >few >pics: > > >http://www.snort4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=109322#post109322://www.snort4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=109322#post109322> ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 05 Sep 2004 23:35:47 -0500 From: Jeep Nut Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Inspection Questions Thanks Jim, That's it exactly. The 360 oil filler tube is at the front of the intake, right between #1 and #2. Also Vince recommended that I change the jets on the Edlebrock 4 barrel to maybe 51's from the currently installed 55's. He's thinking that maybe that's the reason it wouldn't pass IL emissions tests. Rich exhaust. So if I'm understanding you right the greyish/tan color would be the "optimal" color indicating a cleaner burn? On a side note, I painted up the motor again tonight with the AMC blue... man what a NICE color. I think I'm gonna have to go buy one of those disposable cameras so I can get some shots of this beautiful motor. Jim Blair wrote: >A: Is the oil cap or PCV above those rockers? That tends to concentrate >"stuff" in the area closest to them. The valves being black can mean oil >sucked in, or the choke was still on last time it ran. Was it running rough >at all or consuming oil? If not, I wouldn't go further in. > > >Hi again all. > Thanks for the feedback re: the oil leak. > Dan offered the best advice about the gaskets. (Just put on new >ones ya cheap puke. :-D But he said it so nice.) > Thanks Jim for the note on the pushrods... good advice.. > > We have pulled the valve covers now and rechecked torque. All head >bolts are at spec for tightness. > > As we have continued to inspect, we find a couple of odd things... >1. Early on after he got the motor back and had installed it, at some >point Vince had the valve covers off and recalls that when he did, >everything was perfectly clean as it should have been. BUT now that the >engine has about a years use on it and we have the valve covers off we >find that the #1 rocker cap has a fair bit of hardened, black, rough >feeling .... stuff? ;-) on it. #2 rocker cap has very light >deposits on it. All others look like they just came out of the box. > Anyone comment about what that might tell us? > >2. Pulled the exhaust manifolds and looking up into the exhaust ports, >7 valves look Black to Charcoal colored while #5 alone is a light tan >color. > Any suggestions as to what that might mean? > Should I pull the heads to see what's up or do you guys think this >won't reveal much about this valve condition? > In case it matters to the decision, it is in the area of this #5 >cylinder where we noticed the most oil running down the side as I >described this morning... > > Since this is my first real experience with this stuff, I'm relying >on the wisdom of the list to enlighten me before we reassemble all and >rip the engine out of the '88. > Off to clean and prep for painting... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2004 21:52:02 -0700 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Inspection Questions A: As long as it runs fine and just fails with high HCs, that's the likely culprit all around! Thanks Jim, That's it exactly. The 360 oil filler tube is at the front of the intake, right between #1 and #2. Also Vince recommended that I change the jets on the Edlebrock 4 barrel to maybe 51's from the currently installed 55's. He's thinking that maybe that's the reason it wouldn't pass IL emissions tests. Rich exhaust. So if I'm understanding you right the greyish/tan color would be the "optimal" color indicating a cleaner burn? On a side note, I painted up the motor again tonight with the AMC blue... man what a NICE color. I think I'm gonna have to go buy one of those disposable cameras so I can get some shots of this beautiful motor. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 05 Sep 2004 22:48:50 -0700 From: john meister Subject: fsj: Re: xj: Re: fleet changes... the WJ's are nice... just tanked up this Laredo... 20.7mpg not bad... down to Centralia to swap the seats... mostly freeway. will expect closer to 22 mpg when I get it all switched over to Amsoil. The 4.7's are nice engines as well. I would avoid the ZJs though, unless you can find one with the 4.0L, and even those had the three speed autos... the 93-98 Grand Cherokees, ZJs, are probably best to avoid for a number of reasons... :) 2 hr commute? consider a Diesel Benz? ;) I'm getting 30+ mpg with my '91 300d. :) john Aaron Storms wrote: > Nice wj John! I'm considering a wj for my 2-hr daily daily driver among > other used, but late-model rigs and was wondering if there were bad years to > avoid and which years and options were the best and most trouble-free. I was > really hoping for a v8 this time after 8 xj's and a 4-banger yj...:) I could > also make good use of a full-sized half-ton pickup, a tj, or a 97+ xj...:) > All my other rigs are getting some age on them and I'd like something > dependable for driving down the rocky mountain roads to the highway. Aaron > > Aaron Storms, Publisher > Gilpin County News > PO Box 93 > Black Hawk, CO 80422 > 303.582.0133 > aaron.storms-at-mindspring.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "john" > To: "john meister" > Sent: Friday, September 03, 2004 6:04 PM > Subject: xj: fleet changes... > > > >>we have a new addition to the family... :) >> http://www.wagoneers.com/WJ/99-laredo/99wj-3sep04.jpg >>http://www.wagoneers.com/WJ/99-laredo/xj-wj-sj-3sep04.jpg >> >>just got home with my wife's selection... (it HAD to be a Jeep) >> >>she picked out a nice clean white '99 WJ Laredo. It's very >>clean, and runs great. It only has 72,000 miles on it. New tires even. >> >>It's got the 4.0L I-6 and Selectrac. I'll convert it over to 100% AMSOIL >>here in the next few weeks. With our 99 WJ Limited with the 4.7L V8 we >>went from 18.3 to just over 21mpg by switching. Will run this one with >>whatever is in there for a tank or two for comparison. It has the best >>stereo setup, controls on the wheel and all the amps and speakers! No >>sunroof. One control for the heat... the other setup with the dual >>controls never really worked well anyway. Simple is better. :) >> >>Test drove about 5 or 6 WJ's. Did a speed test between the 4.7L V8 >>and the 4.0L I6. On one stretch of Lake City Way we'd hit about >>55mph with the V8 and 47-48 mph with the I-6's. I'll have to go >>and try the test with the 300D for grins. Amazingly our tired >>XJ did about the same as the '99/'02 Wj's right at 47 or 48mph. That's >>amazing since it has 3.55's and 31's too. Guess it's faster than >>we thought. :) Also tested one ZJ... confirmed my dislike for them, >>totally different feel then either an XJ or a WJ. >> >>A QUESTION: >>------------------------- >>Got a question on the WJ. There is no fan off the water pump, just >>the electric up by the rad... I can see threads on the water pump >>where the fan clutch would go... Does the 4.0L not have the extra >>fan??? Temp was constant at around 200/210 or so... engine idles >>smooth as glass. A 4.0L is a beautiful engine... :) >>------------------------- >> >>TRADE?: >>------------------------- >>I guess I need to buy another set of the '99 WJ shop manuals, >>anyone want to trade a complete set of '91 XJ manuals? :) >>------------------------- >> >>Anyway, this does means that our son will be flying home for > > Thanksgiving... :) > >>he's buying the '87 XJ... it "only" has 251,6000 miles on it... he talked > > me > >>out of the 31x10.5" tires though... was going to use them on my latest >>Monster Garage Project... >> >>...the '78 J10 Golden Eagle... it's getting the 6.2L V8 GM Detroit-Allison >>Diesel out of the '83 GMC Jimmy I bought for the driveline. The remains >>of the Jimmy are being purchased by the teenager next door. :) The >>Diesel powered J10 should be hitting I-5 early October... >> >>With the acquisition of the "plain" jane version of the WJ I'm going to >>modify my plans for SuperDawg a bit... I am going to pirate the nice >>heated leather seats I bought out of a '99 WJ for him to put in my >>wife's WJ... >> >>Hey Curtis, looks like I'll be able to give y'all a lesson >>on how to use the Espresso unit tomorrow... >> >>And we can probably cancel the plans to extend the cab, unless >>these cloth WJ seats are worth the trouble... might be... we'll see... >>I guess we'll either go with the bench from the '78 if it's nice or >>use those leather seats I put on the Grand Wag bases before... >> >>Give me a ring later... might drive down tomorrow to get the seats. >>If you have time maybe we can swap 'em out and if you want the cloth >>ones for Rambo you'll save me the trouble of dragging 'em home. :) >> >>Looks like we'll have to figure something else out for tires for the >>J10 Golden Eagle... If we can find a couple of 30x9.5 BFGs we could >>rob the other two off the trailer... :) I guess in the meantime >>put the 35's on Rambo and I'll use those wimpy looking 235's until >>I can find enough loose change in the couch to replace 'em. :) >> >>If we don't extend the cab on SuperDawg then we could get him back >>on the road with the 4.0L setup by Spring... :) Since the '99 WJ >>doesn't have a hitch I may just have to keep that '78 J10 with >>the 6.2L Diesel as my tow rig... wouldn't want to hurt SuperDawg >>towing that '75 J10 Hydraulic dump trailer ya know... ;) As >>crazy as that logic sounds it might just fly... ;) Of course that >>might mean that the 300D will have to go... but at 30mpg + and >>a 60 mile a day commute that's not likely either... ;) >> >>so... the fleet in the Snohomish Monster Garage/Carport consists of: >>'91 300d 2.5L TD (30+ mpg) >>'99 WJ Laredo white 4.0L Selectrac (no hitch) >>'75 J10 trailer - hydraulic dump bed >>coming soon: >>'78 Golden Eagle J10 w/ 6.2L Diesel / 700r4/ NP208 - Oct 2004 >>'83 J10 Stepside ('96 4.0L project / AW4/ NP219 ) - Spring 2005? >> >>the kids part: >>'87 XJ (252,000 miles) 4.0L (heading to Tucson at Thanksgiving) >>'91 pontiac grand am (parked for a year...) >> >>if you're keeping score: (so far: 22 SJs, 2 WJs, 7 MBs, 9 XJx, 2 GMC > > Jimmys) > >> http://www.wagoneers.com/johns-vehicles.html >> >>If the 4.10 gears in SuperDawg work as expected with the 235's he should >>be able to tow the trailer... as much as I'd love to keep all these > > vehicles > >>it doesn't make sense... ;) So the probable end collection will be the >>'91 300d, the '99 WJ and the '83 J10 stepside with the '75 J10 trailer >> >>BTW, the "SuperDawg" theme is not about Dogs... it's about Granville King. >>Remember I had the '81 Wagoneer called Old Blue? Granville also had > > one... > >>later the SuperDawg name came to mind because that's what he called his >>greyhounds, or SuperPup... So we still have to come up with a name >>for the '78 Golden Eagle... Eagle, not a Beagle... :) >> >>later, >>john >> >> ---- >> >>------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** >> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. >>------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 05 Sep 2004 23:18:15 -0700 From: john meister Subject: Re: fsj: tuneup time! they did quit with the MTBE... not sure what Jim is talking about with winter gas... unless the gas sat in his truck over last winter... :) I told him he needs to do the Petronix conversion... points are pointless... ;) rofl... I hate points, carbs and manual transmissions... ;) john Jeep Nut wrote: > Now THATs what I like to see... somebody who's getting their moneys > worth from their parts... :-D > I thought they quit with the MTBE? You're not on the Canadian side are > you? > > Jim Blair wrote: > >> My J4000 started acting a little weird when I filled up on my way to >> dump a >> 3600lb load of scrap steel. I figured it was time for a tuneup. Here's >> a few >> pics: >> >> >> http://www.snort4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=109322#post109322> >> ://www.snort4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=109322#post109322> ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Sep 2004 00:42:50 -0700 From: john meister Subject: fsj: another twist in the fractured tale of the clearview monster garage saga... in our last report we were going to take the 6.2L Diesel out of the '83 Jimmy and put it into the '78 J10 Golden Eagle... making a real Diesel powered FSJ... this would solve the "towing" problem created by the "new" '99 WJ with no hitch... (our son is coming home to get the '87 XJ) Well, today I went down to Centralia to the "other" Monster Garage to install the leather seats into the WJ (they were purchased for superdawg, but using them would have required extending his cab...) (btw, they are fantastic, the drive home was superb...) Anyway, as I was saying, while surveying the situation in Centralia we came to the realization that adapting the radiator alone for Diesel life in the J10 would cost several times more than the J10 was purchased for... And looking at the J10, then at the Jimmy we came to the realization that it would take less effort and money to clean up the Jimmy and put it on the road until Superdawg is done... So, I'll give Curtis the J10, which is something he wanted in the first place... and he'll fix up the Jimmy... ;) The "leftover" cloth WJ power seats I took out of the '99 Laredo will be dropped into the '83 Jimmy and then we'll paint the Jimmy the same color that SuperDawg will probably end up with, Kenworth Desert Tan. Now the only problem is finding a set of tires suitable for the GMC Jimmy... Thinking about using the 35's, but the total height has to be less then 6'6" to fit in the parking garage at work... could be close... also will need to trim the fenders and remove the running boards.... 31's or 32's would save the fenders, but not my budget. ;) Anyone have any 30-32" tires in the Seattle area that are nice that want to trade for a set of nice 235's or 35's? :) Hey, the '99 WJ with the 4.0L got 20.7mpg driving down to Centralia and back today... not too bad at all... when I switch it to Amsoil Synthethics it should get better than that. Anyway, the final score, if you're keeping score, for the day is: Centralia:'67 J100 Panel, '83 Jeep J10 stepside, '83 GMC Jimmy, '78 J10 Golden Eagle, Clearview: '99 WJ, '91 300d, '75 J10 trailer and the '87 XJ. The '83 Jimmy needs to beat Mark home... ;) I guess the Diesel dream will have to wait... I'm still thinking that a Mercedes Diesel would be the way to go... if it only had a bit more power... :) john ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Sep 2004 11:06:17 CDT From: Dan Black Subject: Re: fsj: another twist in the fractured tale of the clearview monster garage saga... john meister said: {- Anyway, as I was saying, while surveying the situation in Centralia we {- came to the realization that adapting the radiator alone for Diesel {- life in the J10 would cost several times {- more than the J10 was purchased for... And looking at the J10, then at {- the Jimmy we came to the realization that it would take less effort and {- money to clean up the Jimmy and put it on the road until Superdawg is {- done... So, I'll give Curtis the J10, which is something he wanted in the {- first place... and he'll fix up the Jimmy... ;) Hmmm, so are you sure Curtis didn't know that from the start? Sounds like an agenda to me. ;) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Heisenberg was driving down the Autobahn whereupon he was pulled over by a policeman. The policeman asked, "Do you know how fast you were going back there?" Heisenberg replied, "No, but I know where I am." - -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2004 09:20:53 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: another twist in the fractured tale of the clearview monster garage saga... On Mon, 6 Sep 2004, Dan Black wrote: >-->john meister said: >-->{- Anyway, as I was saying, while surveying the situation in Centralia we >-->{- came to the realization that adapting the radiator alone for Diesel >-->{- life in the J10 would cost several times >-->{- more than the J10 was purchased for... And looking at the J10, then at >-->{- the Jimmy we came to the realization that it would take less effort and >-->{- money to clean up the Jimmy and put it on the road until Superdawg is >-->{- done... So, I'll give Curtis the J10, which is something he wanted in the >-->{- first place... and he'll fix up the Jimmy... ;) >--> >-->Hmmm, so are you sure Curtis didn't know that from the start? Sounds >-->like an agenda to me. ;) >--> >-->------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >--> Heisenberg was driving down the Autobahn whereupon he was pulled over >--> by a policeman. The policeman asked, "Do you know how fast you were >--> going back there?" Heisenberg replied, "No, but I know where I am." >-->-------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- yep, he's smooth... ;) but I'm beginning to like his evil plan... I think it's going to work out fine... he'll have a nice selection of FSJ's down there that my wife won't let me have up here. Right now they're in my name so I can claim bragging rights, can visit them pretty much any time, and I don't have to feed them, bathe them or insure them. :) Of course I can't drive them or bring them home either, but that's such a minor detail. ;) I think he wants me to find him a wide track Cherokee now... ;) Actually it was my decision to scrap the Diesel project. It was doable, but having both the Golden Eagle and the Stepside didn't seem like a good idea to me... getting rid of the Jimmy when SuperDawg is done seems much easier to do then getting rid of the FSJ. ;) The work that Curtis would have had to do to make that swap wasn't too bad, but trying to get an engine oil cooler, a larger radiator and a tranny cooler in that J10 could have gotten expensive... plus we needed tires... I would have spent at least a grand making it all work and that's money I need to put towards the landscaping project and the WJ... not to mention SuperDawg. Getting the WJ now was a bit ahead of schedule but the '87 XJ was worrying my wife... my son needed a vehicle and having a day job all seemed to fall in place... gotta run, need to test out these new seats in the WJ... ;) john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2004 09:42:05 -0700 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: Re: fsj: tuneup time! A: Shell Canada made MTBE while trying to figure out what to do with waste byproducts from cracking crude oil into fuel. It was actually the EPA and CARB that forced it's use here with laws, and it's taken so long to back out of it that it's not funny. Nafta has very little to do with it, but gets blamed each time this comes up. It's simple contractural law. They are required to buy X amount of the crud and that's that. I read or heard on TV somewhere, or something .... about a weird little issue with MTBE. Don't know if you're a fan of NAFTA or not, and certainly do not want to offend your Canadian roots, but this article I saw was reporting some of the little "gotchas" about NAFTA and one of the examples they used was the introduction of MTBE in U.S. motor fuel. If recall it correctly it reported that the MTBE additive is made in Canada. Since we started using it and importing it from Canada and we use TONS of it, it constitutes a problem to stop using it because NAFTA allows the govt's of the US, Canada and Mexico to sue each other for pulling the plug on a product that would negatively impact the "sellers" economy. So it may be that the Canadian firm that manufactures this additive will not allow U.S. fuel makers to stop using it. Unless they pay a (as I recall it reporting) BIZARRE amount of money. I think I recall they were reporting that the state of California has "outlawed" it, but due to this NAFTA clause, the refineries have to keep buying it and using it in whatever fuel they can. Whether they want to or not. I'm pretty sure they dump the stuff in Tennessee fuel as well. Weird, eh? The stupid little things that the politicians DON't bother to find out when they sign on for these laws.... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Sep 2004 11:51:02 CDT From: Dan Black Subject: Re: fsj: another twist in the fractured tale of the clearview monster garage saga... john said: {- yep, he's smooth... ;) but I'm beginning to like his evil plan... I think {- it's going to work out fine... [...] {- Actually it was my decision to scrap the Diesel project. It was doable, {- but having both the Golden Eagle and the Stepside didn't seem like a good {- idea to me... getting rid of the Jimmy when SuperDawg is done seems much {- easier to do then getting rid of the FSJ. ;) OK, listen to yourself. "He's smooth... but it was my decision." Sounds more and more like a plot all the time. ;) You know I'm just joking, cuz everybody on the list knows how often you change plans. ;) (I would, too, but I can't afford it! Have to save and plan for months and months to do anything significant, so I have plenty of time to rearrange my plans and come up with a final one before I do anything.) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Smoking is a leading cause of statistics. -- Fletcher Knebel - -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #2238 **************************