From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Wed Sep 8 12:29:27 2004 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Wednesday, September 8 2004 Volume 01 : Number 2240 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: mail order or online parts sources? RE: fsj: mail order or online parts sources? fsj: Re: xj: Re: fleet changes... fsj: mobility fsj: no exhaust gasket? fsj: other gasket question fsj: Re: other gasket question fsj: Re: no exhaust gasket? Re: fsj: other gasket question Re: fsj: Re: other gasket question fsj: Re: xj: Re: fleet changes... Re: fsj: Re: other gasket question fsj: repairs Re: fsj: Re: other gasket question fsj: Re: repairs Re: fsj: Re: repairs Re: fsj: repairs fsj: Re: Re: xj: Re: fleet changes... fsj: Re: Re: xj: Re: fleet changes... FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 13:38:00 -0400 From: "Watry, Andrew (LNG-SFR)" Subject: fsj: mail order or online parts sources? Are there good mail-order or online parts sources for Grand Wagoneers? I've bought a fair amount of stuff at NAPA and at the dealer, but they can be pricey. I'm specifically looking for front sway bar bushings, where they attach to the chassis, for an 85 GW. Thanks for any leads. Andrew Watry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2004 12:46:15 -0500 From: "Carl Hirsch" Subject: RE: fsj: mail order or online parts sources? "I'm tired of your freaky love!" - -Mister Mental http://www.bjsoffroad.com/cartgenie/prodInfo.asp?pid=116&cid=14 HTH, - -carl >From: "Watry, Andrew (LNG-SFR)" >Reply-To: "Watry, Andrew (LNG-SFR)" >To: "Jeep Digest (E-mail)" >Subject: fsj: mail order or online parts sources? >Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 13:38:00 -0400 > >Are there good mail-order or online parts sources for Grand Wagoneers? I've >bought a fair amount of stuff at NAPA and at the dealer, but they can be >pricey. I'm specifically looking for front sway bar bushings, where they >attach to the chassis, for an 85 GW. Thanks for any leads. > >Andrew Watry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 11:32:08 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: xj: Re: fleet changes... On Tue, 7 Sep 2004, Jim Blair wrote: >-->A: The 4.0L will likely outlive most V8s anyways. You can do a lot of little >-->things to perk up the 4.0L anyways. The one that seems to get the most bang >-->for the buck is a throttle body with larger opening. yeah, saw a link to the 5.0L mustang setup... I like it... free flow exhaust with high flow cat helps too... also just switching to amsoil synthetics has always picked me up 1 to 2 mpg! the 4.7L in the WJ is a sweet motor though... I'm sure it won't have the rear main seal issues common to the 4.2/4.0 either. :) john >--> >--> >-->From: john >-->Subject: xj: Re: fleet changes... >--> >-->On Tue, 7 Sep 2004, Dan Black wrote: >--> >-->>-->john said: >-->>-->{- we have a new addition to the family... :) >-->>-->{- http://www.wagoneers.com/WJ/99-laredo/99wj-3sep04.jpg >-->>-->{- http://www.wagoneers.com/WJ/99-laredo/xj-wj-sj-3sep04.jpg >-->>--> >-->>-->BTW, nice-lookin' Jeep. I'd prefer the V8, but since you prefer the >-->>-->4.0, I'm glad you got what you wanted. And I know you must be happy to >-->>-->have a WJ again! So is it _really_ for your wife, or are you going to >-->>-->be the one driving it the most? ;) >-->>--> >-->>-->------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->>--> We have nothing to fear but fear itself. >-->>--> That, and those great big furry spiders. >-->>--> -- Lev L. Spiro >-->>-->-------------- Dan Black ------------------------- >-->>dan-at-black.org -------------- >--> >-->it's hers... but when we're together I do the driving. drove my >-->benz to work this morning... love both the WJ and the 300D. >-->Also like the XJ and the J10... :) >--> >-->She wanted a V8 too, until we took several of each and did a little time >-->trial... :) >--> >-->The difference between the V8 and the 4.0L isn't that significant, >-->roughly 8 to 10% less power... still need to take the 300d to that >-->section of road and see how fast it'll go... :) >--> >-->So far in doing our normal wandering around in the area we're >-->seeing 19 to 20mpg with the 4.0L WJ where with >-->the 4.7L WJ we were only seeing 14 to 16. The XJ with the 4.0L would give >-->us 16 - 17 doing the same thing... so this WJ is really a surprise. :) >--> >-->Of course when I asked my wife which vehicle we'll normally take for >-->running around and she said my benz... at 30+ mpg in town it's the >-->winner for economy. :) >--> >-->john >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 14:08:38 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: mobility http://mobility.tamu.edu/ums/ http://www.komotv.com/stories/32923.htm hey, we're only 18th? (last year 12th) we're slippin... ;) john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2004 20:49:14 -0500 From: Jeep Nut Subject: fsj: no exhaust gasket? Ok, next question for the green guy. The engine from the Rez Runner has exhaust manifold gaskets. The guy at NAPA didn't say anything when I asked for and purchased exhaust manifold gaskets. Getting ready to reinstall and in both the '81 and the '84 service manuals it tells you there is no gasket used between the exhaust manifold and the head. ?? Guys, what do you who've BTDT say? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2004 21:09:09 -0500 From: Jeep Nut Subject: fsj: other gasket question The heat valve has a metal gasket on it. The air tube supply assembly has small metal gaskets on each of the attachment points. I want to keep the air pump stuff as we have a pending emissions law apparently. Is it really necessary to find new gaskets? I'm guessing the air system gaskets are not going to be easily had. Or since they're metal, won't they work alright anyway if I reuse them? Thanks all! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 19:27:49 -0700 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: fsj: Re: other gasket question A: I reuse them if they don't leak. I add some exhaust gasket goop to be sure sometimes. The heat valve has a metal gasket on it. The air tube supply assembly has small metal gaskets on each of the attachment points. I want to keep the air pump stuff as we have a pending emissions law apparently. Is it really necessary to find new gaskets? I'm guessing the air system gaskets are not going to be easily had. Or since they're metal, won't they work alright anyway if I reuse them? Thanks all! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 19:29:24 -0700 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: fsj: Re: no exhaust gasket? A: If the manifolds and head portss are machined, I wouldn't use a gasket. Ok, next question for the green guy. The engine from the Rez Runner has exhaust manifold gaskets. The guy at NAPA didn't say anything when I asked for and purchased exhaust manifold gaskets. Getting ready to reinstall and in both the '81 and the '84 service manuals it tells you there is no gasket used between the exhaust manifold and the head. ?? Guys, what do you who've BTDT say? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 19:35:07 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: other gasket question you should be able to get the gasket set... can't remember the brand that's best... but I had Felpro metal gaskets for a 360 that worked ok. john On Tue, 7 Sep 2004, Jeep Nut wrote: >-->The heat valve has a metal gasket on it. >-->The air tube supply assembly has small metal gaskets on each of the >-->attachment points. >-->I want to keep the air pump stuff as we have a pending emissions law >-->apparently. >--> >-->Is it really necessary to find new gaskets? I'm guessing the air system >-->gaskets are not going to be easily had. >-->Or since they're metal, won't they work alright anyway if I reuse them? >--> >-->Thanks all! >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 19:36:01 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Re: other gasket question On Tue, 7 Sep 2004, Jim Blair wrote: >-->A: I reuse them if they don't leak. I add some exhaust gasket goop to be >-->sure sometimes. on the exhaust that can be a problem... that's why the exhaust gaskets are metal on one side... metal toward the manifold, paper to the head. john >--> >--> >-->The heat valve has a metal gasket on it. >-->The air tube supply assembly has small metal gaskets on each of the >-->attachment points. >-->I want to keep the air pump stuff as we have a pending emissions law >-->apparently. >--> >-->Is it really necessary to find new gaskets? I'm guessing the air system >-->gaskets are not going to be easily had. >-->Or since they're metal, won't they work alright anyway if I reuse them? >--> >-->Thanks all! >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 20:55:11 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: xj: Re: fleet changes... now this is the funniest email I've ever seen from Jim... :) john On Tue, 7 Sep 2004, Jim Blair wrote: >-->A: They actually do increase power. The problem with the way these intakes >-->were designed is that some carb guy did it. The proper way is to mount them >-->on their side so the air flows in and curves away from the throttle body to >-->each port as needed. The stock setup draws the air in (excuse me but Jime >-->will finish this when he gets back in the house...he is tying >-->up the komputer!!! Char) >--> >--> >-->From: Jeep Nut >-->Subject: Re: xj: Re: fleet changes... >--> >-->I've seen also some thicker throttle body spacers in JCWhipme advertised >-->to do amazing things for power and performance. And you know if >-->JCWhipme says it, then it must be true. ;-) >-->But I don't understand how a thicker spacer can make such a difference. >-->I can understand a larger opening making a difference but a thicker spacer? >-->Why would that increase power or mileage? Or is it really just snake oil? >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2004 08:07:51 CDT From: Dan Black Subject: Re: fsj: Re: other gasket question Jeep Nut said: {- Ok, next question for the green guy. {- The engine from the Rez Runner has exhaust manifold gaskets. {- The guy at NAPA didn't say anything when I asked for and purchased {- exhaust manifold gaskets. {- Getting ready to reinstall and in both the '81 and the '84 service {- manuals it tells you there is no gasket used between the exhaust {- manifold and the head. john said: {- On Tue, 7 Sep 2004, Jim Blair wrote: {- >-->A: I reuse them if they don't leak. I add some exhaust gasket goop to be {- >-->sure sometimes. {- {- on the exhaust that can be a problem... that's why the exhaust {- gaskets are metal on one side... metal toward the manifold, {- paper to the head. After I got headers, I kept having the exhaust gaskets blow, and I'd get really annoying loud exhaust ticking all the time. Finally tried these on recommendation from a friend: http://store.summitracing.com/default.asp?target=partdetail.asp&part=MRG-7174 Copper exhaust gaskets for 304/360/401 and headers. More expensive, but they seem to work better. The theory, which may be working correctly, is that the copper can expand better with the heat, and uneven heating won't cause it to blow like the paper ones. And I'm guessing _those_ you should be able to reuse. Summit doesn't seem to have any gaskets listed for 304/360/401 and manifolds. But if you can find the copper ones, I'd recommend them. The friend who recommended them to me put them on his Ford 390 with manifolds; he had been blowing paper gaskets just like I was with the headers. So headers are supposedly worse for this, but it can happen with manifolds, too. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Oh yeah? Clap! -- Pike - -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2004 09:16:03 CDT From: Dan Black Subject: fsj: repairs http://129.186.79.84/repairs.jpg - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 'X' marks the spot. -- Indiana Jones - -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 07:53:06 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Re: other gasket question headers are a whole 'nuther headache... didn't look at the link, the copper gaskets sound like a good idea, but also aircraft style bolts with clips also are a good idea. The bolts on headers work loose and need to be retightened... but then again so do AMC intake and exhaust bolts... I still preach tightening intake/exhaust bolts and replacing all the vacuum lines once a year on an AMC V8. :) Hey, on my '99 WJ 4.0L there are NO spark plug wires to deal with! :) We seem to be getting 19-20 mpg buzzing around with it... happily give up 10% performance for economy. ;) john On Wed, 8 Sep 2004, Dan Black wrote: >-->Jeep Nut said: >-->{- Ok, next question for the green guy. >-->{- The engine from the Rez Runner has exhaust manifold gaskets. >-->{- The guy at NAPA didn't say anything when I asked for and purchased >-->{- exhaust manifold gaskets. >-->{- Getting ready to reinstall and in both the '81 and the '84 service >-->{- manuals it tells you there is no gasket used between the exhaust >-->{- manifold and the head. >--> >-->john said: >-->{- On Tue, 7 Sep 2004, Jim Blair wrote: >-->{- >-->A: I reuse them if they don't leak. I add some exhaust gasket goop to be >-->{- >-->sure sometimes. >-->{- >-->{- on the exhaust that can be a problem... that's why the exhaust >-->{- gaskets are metal on one side... metal toward the manifold, >-->{- paper to the head. >--> >-->After I got headers, I kept having the exhaust gaskets blow, and I'd get >-->really annoying loud exhaust ticking all the time. Finally tried these >-->on recommendation from a friend: >--> >--> http://store.summitracing.com/default.asp?target=partdetail.asp&part=MRG-7174 >--> >-->Copper exhaust gaskets for 304/360/401 and headers. More expensive, but >-->they seem to work better. The theory, which may be working correctly, >-->is that the copper can expand better with the heat, and uneven heating >-->won't cause it to blow like the paper ones. And I'm guessing _those_ >-->you should be able to reuse. >--> >-->Summit doesn't seem to have any gaskets listed for 304/360/401 and >-->manifolds. But if you can find the copper ones, I'd recommend them. >-->The friend who recommended them to me put them on his Ford 390 with >-->manifolds; he had been blowing paper gaskets just like I was with the >-->headers. So headers are supposedly worse for this, but it can happen >-->with manifolds, too. >--> >-->------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >--> Oh yeah? Clap! >--> -- Pike >-->-------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 08:43:01 -0700 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: fsj: Re: repairs That pic doesn't show the comealong attched to a rebar outcropping on the other side. (I see that several times a year, and no, I don't EVER work under vehicles in such obviously unsafe conditions! Especially green ones!) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2004 10:53:45 CDT From: Dan Black Subject: Re: fsj: Re: repairs "Jim Blair" said: {- That pic doesn't show the comealong attched to a rebar outcropping on the {- other side. (I see that several times a year, and no, I don't EVER work {- under vehicles in such obviously unsafe conditions! Especially green ones!) Anymore. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I hear and I forget, I see and I remember, I do and I understand. -- Chinese proverb - -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 09:09:24 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: repairs cool, set that as wall paper... obviously safe, he used two sticks... ;) john On Wed, 8 Sep 2004, Dan Black wrote: >-->http://129.186.79.84/repairs.jpg >--> >-->------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >--> 'X' marks the spot. >--> -- Indiana Jones >-->-------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 09:14:38 -0700 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: fsj: Re: Re: xj: Re: fleet changes... A: That was my wife. She didn't realize she could switch to her email and leave mine waiting. I had company show up and she tied the computer up the rest of the night with her sister's upcoming "upgrade" to full bird Colonel. The regular intake allows air to hit the bottom and disrupts the flow. The longer the intake runner, the more bottom end as well. Lifting the throttle body away from the bottom allows the air velocity to drop slightly before it makes the sharp corner. now this is the funniest email I've ever seen from Jim... :) john On Tue, 7 Sep 2004, Jim Blair wrote: >-->A: They actually do increase power. The problem with the way these >intakes >-->were designed is that some carb guy did it. The proper way is to mount >them >-->on their side so the air flows in and curves away from the throttle body >to >-->each port as needed. The stock setup draws the air in (excuse me but >Jime >-->will finish this when he gets back in the house...he is tying >-->up the komputer!!! Char) >--> >--> >-->From: Jeep Nut >-->Subject: Re: xj: Re: fleet changes... >--> >-->I've seen also some thicker throttle body spacers in JCWhipme advertised >-->to do amazing things for power and performance. And you know if >-->JCWhipme says it, then it must be true. ;-) >-->But I don't understand how a thicker spacer can make such a difference. >-->I can understand a larger opening making a difference but a thicker >spacer? >-->Why would that increase power or mileage? Or is it really just snake >oil? >--> ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 11:50:38 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: Re: xj: Re: fleet changes... On Wed, 8 Sep 2004, Jim Blair wrote: >-->A: That was my wife. She didn't realize she could switch to her email and >-->leave mine waiting. I had company show up and she tied the computer up the >-->rest of the night with her sister's upcoming "upgrade" to full bird Colonel. it's called a promotion, and that's not a trivial thing. Show a little respect. ;) >-->now this is the funniest email I've ever seen from Jim... :) >--> >-->john >--> >--> >-->On Tue, 7 Sep 2004, Jim Blair wrote: >--> >-->>-->A: They actually do increase power. The problem with the way these >-->>intakes >-->>-->were designed is that some carb guy did it. The proper way is to mount >-->>them >-->>-->on their side so the air flows in and curves away from the throttle body >-->>to >-->>-->each port as needed. The stock setup draws the air in (excuse me but >-->>Jime >-->>-->will finish this when he gets back in the house...he is tying >-->>-->up the komputer!!! Char) >-->>--> >-->>--> >-->>-->From: Jeep Nut >-->>-->Subject: Re: xj: Re: fleet changes... >-->>--> >-->>-->I've seen also some thicker throttle body spacers in JCWhipme advertised >-->>-->to do amazing things for power and performance. And you know if >-->>-->JCWhipme says it, then it must be true. ;-) >-->>-->But I don't understand how a thicker spacer can make such a difference. >-->>-->I can understand a larger opening making a difference but a thicker >-->>spacer? >-->>-->Why would that increase power or mileage? Or is it really just snake >-->>oil? >-->>--> >--> >--> >--> >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #2240 **************************