From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Mon Sep 20 20:24:58 2004 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Tuesday, September 21 2004 Volume 01 : Number 2253 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: fsj: J20 Spring Rates fsj: Re: This weekend's lessons fsj: OT (for the xj-list): my J-truck bed panel woes fsj: Re: MSNBC.com Article: Truck maker unveils a monster pickup Re: fsj: Re: MSNBC.com Article: Truck maker unveils a monster pickup fsj: Re: OT (for the xj-list): my J-truck bed panel woes Re: fsj: This weekend's lessons fsj: Re: This weekend's lessons fsj: question on cams 4.2/4.0 fsj: Re: question on cams 4.2/4.0 fsj: Re: Re: OT (for the xj-list): my J-truck bed panel woes Re: fsj: Vince moving soon Re: was fsj: Vince moving soon - now tire chains in passes Re: was fsj: Vince moving soon - now tire chains in passes Re: was fsj: Vince moving soon - now tire chains in passes Re: fsj: OT (for the xj-list): my J-truck bed panel woes fsj: Re: This weekend's lessons FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 22:25:06 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: J20 Spring Rates I won't have time to get to this for awhile... the answer is in the std catalog of 4x4's... get a latte at your local barnes and noble and fish it out... ;) john On Sun, 19 Sep 2004, elliott sydnam wrote: >-->Thanks John, >-->BTW is the leaf count reversed on the J20? It says 7 >-->front and 2 rear. >-->Also, my '79 J20 chassis is three leaves front and >-->rear and I guess the '83 J20 8,400 GVWR is different >-->yet. >--> >--> >-->--- john meister wrote: >--> >-->> correction, that's the optional J20 rates... ;) >-->> >-->> 510 lb/in seemed to be the highest... get the std >-->> catalog >-->> of 4x4's and about 30 years worth of jeep brochures >-->> to double >-->> check the data... ;) >-->> >-->> john >-->> >-->> john meister wrote: >-->> > elliott sydnam wrote: >-->> > > Does anyone know what the spring rates are for >-->> the J20 >-->> > > Trucks with 8,400 GVWR? >-->> > > TIA >-->> > > Elliott >-->> > >-->> > well, as a matter of fact: >-->> > >-->> > the spring rates (1981 e.g.) >-->> > >-->> > >-->> --------------------------------------------------- >-->> > J10 118.7" WB Front / Rear >-->> > 5 leaf 215 lb/in / 5 leaf 165 lb/in >-->> > opt: 230 lb/in / 265 lb/in >-->> > 260 lb/in >-->> > >-->> --------------------------------------------------- >-->> > J10 130.7" WB Front / Rear >-->> > 5 leaf 215 lb/in / 5 leaf 245 lb/in >-->> > opt: 230 lb/in / 265 lb/in >-->> > 260 lb/in >-->> > >-->> --------------------------------------------------- >-->> > J20 130.7" WB Front / Rear >-->> > 7 leaf 260 lb/in / 2 leaf 340 lb/in >-->> > opt: 330 lb/in / 510 lb/in >-->> > >-->> --------------------------------------------------- >-->> > >-->> > I would guess that the 8,400lb package would use >-->> the optional J10 rates. >-->> > >-->> > I looked at a few other years and there were some >-->> differences, but the >-->> > options >-->> > are close throughout the years. >-->> > >-->> > john >-->> >--> >--> >--> >--> >-->__________________________________ >-->Do you Yahoo!? >-->Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. >-->http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 06:31:44 -0400 From: "Neal Hoover" Subject: fsj: Re: This weekend's lessons congrats! sounds like you're having a ball with your fsj. i wish my project were going as well as yours right now.... Neal A. Hoover Project '76 J-10 Project '96 XJ - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeep Nut" To: "FSJ List" Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 11:43 PM Subject: fsj: This weekend's lessons > If nothing else I learned two things this weekend. > 1. Carburetors do not like air leaking into them from passages which > were not purposely designed into the unit. > 2. You can adjust linkage until you're blue in the face, but if it > isn't connected on the OTHER END, it won't matter... > ROFL. > Thanks for the push Jim.... the tranny rod had popped loose at the > bottom of the linkage arm. > > On another happy note, first report on mileage. UP 50%!! > First tank through the beastie and it shows up at 15.3! OH my. That > sure beats 10.6 ALL to heck which was the BEST I could muster from the > old engine. > This is just as cool as it can be. Vastly increased powerband and > better mileage by 50%. > Not many mods will get you that combination. > > JeepNut ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 07:04:42 -0400 From: "Neal Hoover" Subject: fsj: OT (for the xj-list): my J-truck bed panel woes ok, so i've been awaiting my replacement bed panels for my j-truck for quite some time now, and they finally came in. but they weren't what i expected, as you can see from the pics at this link... http://community.webshots.com/album/175759714oUyqwP (the 3 pics at the end of the album show the new panels) to make a long story short, the bends in the sheet metal at the very top of the panels (where it transitions from the vertical portion to the horizontal portion) are completely wrong. the tough part is, i don't have any way to form sheet metal in my humble Hangar of a garage. does anyone with sheet metal experience have any ideas on how to get those bends right from their current state? (btw, don't send suggestions on sending them back and getting others - i've already gone that route to no avail.) also, i've already tried to lessen the acuteness of the sharpest bend over the weekend with some flat hardwood stock, a bunch of c-clamps, and a lot of grunting. that sheet metal is pretty strong when it gets bent that far, and it really doesn't want to come out. can anyone help out a tired and worn-out j-truck restorer? Neal A. Hoover Project '76 J-10 Project '96 XJ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 06:55:14 -0600 (MDT) From: Diana Eichert Subject: fsj: Re: MSNBC.com Article: Truck maker unveils a monster pickup There are some 4WD Sterling trucks where I work, I've always thought they'd make great Hummer squashers. http://www.sterlingtrucks.com/Core/Trucks/Trucks.asp?Application=SportRecreation&Line=Acterra ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 08:35:35 CDT From: Dan Black Subject: Re: fsj: Re: MSNBC.com Article: Truck maker unveils a monster pickup Diana Eichert said: {- There are some 4WD Sterling trucks where I work, I've always thought {- they'd make great Hummer squashers. {- {- http://www.sterlingtrucks.com/Core/Trucks/Trucks.asp?Application=SportRecreation&Line=Acterra Ooo, pretty. Would look great with a car trailer of some sort with two or three FSJs on the back. ;) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Lie? Me? Never! The truth is far too much fun! -- JAS Hook, Capt. - -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 10:14:22 -0700 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: fsj: Re: OT (for the xj-list): my J-truck bed panel woes A: Looks like those panels were made for the '73 and earlier boxes. Most shops leave the top part original and probably tuck the messed up new style panel behind. ok, so i've been awaiting my replacement bed panels for my j-truck for quite some time now, and they finally came in. but they weren't what i expected, as you can see from the pics at this link... http://community.webshots.com/album/175759714oUyqwP (the 3 pics at the end of the album show the new panels) to make a long story short, the bends in the sheet metal at the very top of the panels (where it transitions from the vertical portion to the horizontal portion) are completely wrong. the tough part is, i don't have any way to form sheet metal in my humble Hangar of a garage. does anyone with sheet metal experience have any ideas on how to get those bends right from their current state? (btw, don't send suggestions on sending them back and getting others - i've already gone that route to no avail.) also, i've already tried to lessen the acuteness of the sharpest bend over the weekend with some flat hardwood stock, a bunch of c-clamps, and a lot of grunting. that sheet metal is pretty strong when it gets bent that far, and it really doesn't want to come out. can anyone help out a tired and worn-out j-truck restorer? Neal A. Hoover Project '76 J-10 Project ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 10:46:57 -0700 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: Re: fsj: This weekend's lessons A: Just wait till my rig is finished! Best of all worlds (except parking, but I only have a 7' bed!) with a 4.6L Jeep six with EFI, 4 speed auto, big ass 36" tires (still trying to wangle a deal on some 39.5 IROCs) and dana 60 rear so I can haul anything I want! My current TCase sollection: NV241 RockLoc (4:1 low range for Black Jack), NP242 (21 spline, which may be for sale soon), NP231 (currently in my daughter-in-law's XJ with a Peugeot 5 speed), NP208J (from the '80 Cherokee I'm parting, hopefully today. The 727 in it is being cannibalized for my son's Mopar trans conversion to fit his '83 Cherokee) I have a NP208C (from a Chev that I plan to rebuild with a Jeep non-slipyoke output shaft and put into my J4000 behind a fresh TH400 unipattern) Time to get out and start on these projects as my day off is slipping away! heh, heh, heh, yeah, but that XJ ain' t got NOwhere near the power of this puppy, with all those rocks in that trailer, up hill, in the rain with a headwind.... Thats the beauty of the AMC 360. In my experience, the mileage doesn't vary by more than 1-2 mpg even with or without rocks in a trailer, up or down hill, in the rain or shine, headwind or tailwind, etc.. Next projects... Gotta get the radio wired, been without any kind of radio for about 3 years I guess... Then the NP219 and axles... I'll keep the 229 since it's only about 2 years old, but I think I'll prefer the QuadraTrac drive train. Got a 228 out of the '87 out here in the shed too. And a 242 out of an XJ.... just a few more and I'll have them all! ;-) If I could just figure out how to keep money rolling in without this pesky job that keeps getting in the way of my Jeep work! And I'd love to be able to volunteer some weekends out at the 143offroad park out in Hurricane Mills, TN. They have no Jeep trails yet, just an MX/ATV track but they plan some great things. 2200+ acres of hills, rocks, mud, and forest! JeepNut ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 10:48:03 -0700 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: fsj: Re: This weekend's lessons A: Doh! I assumed you had already checked that! LOL! If nothing else I learned two things this weekend. 1. Carburetors do not like air leaking into them from passages which were not purposely designed into the unit. 2. You can adjust linkage until you're blue in the face, but if it isn't connected on the OTHER END, it won't matter... ROFL. Thanks for the push Jim.... the tranny rod had popped loose at the bottom of the linkage arm. On another happy note, first report on mileage. UP 50%!! First tank through the beastie and it shows up at 15.3! OH my. That sure beats 10.6 ALL to heck which was the BEST I could muster from the old engine. This is just as cool as it can be. Vastly increased powerband and better mileage by 50%. Not many mods will get you that combination. JeepNut ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 10:44:19 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: question on cams 4.2/4.0 - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: "Starc, Dan" Is there some sort of "spring" at the end of the cam that needs to be used in either motor? Dan - -----Original Message----- From: john [mailto:john-at-wagoneers.com] Sent: Monday, September 20, 2004 7:38 AM To: Starc, Dan Subject: Re: A good question for you On Mon, 20 Sep 2004, Starc, Dan wrote: >-->Will the cam of a 242 fit a 258? >-->Dan I believe it will. I'd check with the stroker lists though to be certain. Until you get them side by side and compare bearings and oiling features it's an educated guess. The heads interchange, but there are minor differences. john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - - ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 11:45:46 -0700 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: fsj: Re: question on cams 4.2/4.0 A: The 4.0L has a factory cam button that is just a bolt on the front with a ball inserted to spin on, but the timing cover also has a matching plate to keep the cam from sliding forward (a very common occurrence in all AMC motors unfortunately) The 4.0L cam doesn't have a lobe for the fuel pump though. ('87 *MIGHT* have the lobe still) - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: "Starc, Dan" Is there some sort of "spring" at the end of the cam that needs to be used in either motor? Dan - -----Original Message----- From: john [mailto:john-at-wagoneers.com] Sent: Monday, September 20, 2004 7:38 AM To: Starc, Dan Subject: Re: A good question for you On Mon, 20 Sep 2004, Starc, Dan wrote: >-->Will the cam of a 242 fit a 258? >-->Dan I believe it will. I'd check with the stroker lists though to be certain. Until you get them side by side and compare bearings and oiling features it's an educated guess. The heads interchange, but there are minor differences. john ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 17:16:32 -0400 From: "Neal Hoover" Subject: fsj: Re: Re: OT (for the xj-list): my J-truck bed panel woes that's nice... i was looking at it over the weekend, and decided that it would have been easier to leave to top part on the original bed, and weld the rest of it on below. trouble is, i already took the entire bed sides off in prep for the new ones while they were in transit. ARGH!!!! Neal A. Hoover Project '76 J-10 Project '96 XJ - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Blair" To: "Neal Hoover" Sent: Monday, September 20, 2004 1:14 PM Subject: fsj: Re: OT (for the xj-list): my J-truck bed panel woes > A: Looks like those panels were made for the '73 and earlier boxes. Most > shops leave the top part original and probably tuck the messed up new style > panel behind. > > > > ok, so i've been awaiting my replacement bed panels for my j-truck for > quite > some time now, and they finally came in. but they weren't what i expected, > as you can see from the pics at this link... > http://community.webshots.com/album/175759714oUyqwP (the 3 pics at the end > of the album show the new panels) > > to make a long story short, the bends in the sheet metal at the very top of > the panels (where it transitions from the vertical portion to the horizontal > portion) are completely wrong. the tough part is, i don't have any way to > form sheet metal in my humble Hangar of a garage. does anyone with sheet > metal experience have any ideas on how to get those bends right from their > current state? > (btw, don't send suggestions on sending them back and getting others - i've > already gone that route to no avail.) > also, i've already tried to lessen the acuteness of the sharpest bend over > the weekend with some flat hardwood stock, a bunch of c-clamps, and a lot of > grunting. that sheet metal is pretty strong when it gets bent that far, and > it really doesn't want to come out. > > can anyone help out a tired and worn-out j-truck restorer? > > Neal A. Hoover > Project '76 J-10 > Project ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 14:30:52 -0700 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: fsj: Vince moving soon On Sat, Sep 18, 2004 at 07:57:14PM -0700, john meister wrote: > you weren't driving when it went into effect... you're three > years younger than me. ;) rofl... same age as my "kid" sister... I think I'm staying way out of this one. About weather though, I was in Reno for the air races this past weekend, and there was snow on donner summit on the way home. Good thing I made it through before the chain restrictions went into effect - I didn't have chains handy for the trailer (truck is a 4x4). Who would have thought I would need them in SEPTEMBER in CALIFORNIA? :) K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 16:01:50 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: was fsj: Vince moving soon - now tire chains in passes I wonder how things look up in Southern Oregon on I-5. Mark plans on driving the XJ down to Tucson Oct 3... do 4x4's with m/s rated tires need chains in OR&CA? john On Mon, 20 Sep 2004, Kevin Pekarek wrote: >-->On Sat, Sep 18, 2004 at 07:57:14PM -0700, john meister wrote: >-->> you weren't driving when it went into effect... you're three >-->> years younger than me. ;) rofl... same age as my "kid" sister... >--> >-->I think I'm staying way out of this one. >--> >-->About weather though, I was in Reno for the air races this past weekend, >-->and there was snow on donner summit on the way home. Good thing I made it >-->through before the chain restrictions went into effect - I didn't have chains >-->handy for the trailer (truck is a 4x4). Who would have thought I would need >-->them in SEPTEMBER in CALIFORNIA? :) >--> >-->K >--> >-->-- >-->Kevin Pekarek >-->Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and >-->Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 16:10:53 -0700 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: was fsj: Vince moving soon - now tire chains in passes On Mon, Sep 20, 2004 at 04:01:50PM -0700, john wrote: > Mark plans on driving the XJ down to Tucson Oct 3... > > do 4x4's with m/s rated tires need chains in OR&CA? Yes, in the following instances: - he is from washington and wants to chew up the pavement in california out of contempt for the whole rolling blackouts mess - DOT has posted R2 restrictions (chains or m/s + 4x4) and the inspector is being a prick - I've seen a lot of wannabe four-bys (lameo sport utes or AWD autobahn cruisers) get directed to the chain line. - DOT has posted R3 restrictions, which means it is bad enough the plows and sand spreaders can't keep up with it. When this happens in CA, you *REALLY* don't want to be there. In all actuality, CHP shuts the road down long before there's an R3, because they hate doing accident paperwork when it's cold out. Have him bring a warm blanket or sleeping bag just in case he gets caught in a road closure. I doubt he'll have a problem with that over siskyou summit, but who knows? It snowed on donner pass yesterday. (!) K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 16:53:18 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: was fsj: Vince moving soon - now tire chains in passes I'll see if I can find a set of chains that will fit just in case. ;) john On Mon, 20 Sep 2004, Kevin Pekarek wrote: >-->On Mon, Sep 20, 2004 at 04:01:50PM -0700, john wrote: >-->> Mark plans on driving the XJ down to Tucson Oct 3... >-->> >-->> do 4x4's with m/s rated tires need chains in OR&CA? >--> >-->Yes, in the following instances: >--> - he is from washington and wants to chew up the pavement in california >--> out of contempt for the whole rolling blackouts mess >--> - DOT has posted R2 restrictions (chains or m/s + 4x4) and the inspector >--> is being a prick - I've seen a lot of wannabe four-bys (lameo sport utes >--> or AWD autobahn cruisers) get directed to the chain line. >--> - DOT has posted R3 restrictions, which means it is bad enough the plows >--> and sand spreaders can't keep up with it. When this happens in CA, you >--> *REALLY* don't want to be there. >--> >-->In all actuality, CHP shuts the road down long before there's an R3, because >-->they hate doing accident paperwork when it's cold out. Have him bring a warm >-->blanket or sleeping bag just in case he gets caught in a road closure. I doubt >-->he'll have a problem with that over siskyou summit, but who knows? It snowed >-->on donner pass yesterday. (!) >--> >-->K >--> >-->-- >-->Kevin Pekarek >-->Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and >-->Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 22:13:54 -0500 From: Jeep Nut Subject: Re: fsj: OT (for the xj-list): my J-truck bed panel woes Amazing how different those are from OEM. Wish I had some useful suggestions... I don't suppose there are many places to get these replacement panels either. Not like you can just "shop elsewhere".... Neal Hoover wrote: >ok, so i've been awaiting my replacement bed panels for my j-truck for quite >some time now, and they finally came in. but they weren't what i expected, >as you can see from the pics at this link... >http://community.webshots.com/album/175759714oUyqwP (the 3 pics at the end >of the album show the new panels) > >to make a long story short, the bends in the sheet metal at the very top of >the panels (where it transitions from the vertical portion to the horizontal >portion) are completely wrong. the tough part is, i don't have any way to >form sheet metal in my humble Hangar of a garage. does anyone with sheet >metal experience have any ideas on how to get those bends right from their >current state? >(btw, don't send suggestions on sending them back and getting others - i've >already gone that route to no avail.) >also, i've already tried to lessen the acuteness of the sharpest bend over >the weekend with some flat hardwood stock, a bunch of c-clamps, and a lot of >grunting. that sheet metal is pretty strong when it gets bent that far, and >it really doesn't want to come out. > >can anyone help out a tired and worn-out j-truck restorer? > >Neal A. Hoover >Project '76 J-10 >Project '96 XJ > > > - -- "Microsoft Certified Professionals are to the computing industry what McDonalds Certified Food Specialists are to gourmet restaurants." -Michael Bacarella 00Mar15 - ---------------------------------------------------------- '87 Street Comanche #24/100 '88 Grand Wagoneer ...and they say there's only one... '92 Cherokee Laredo - ---------------------------------------------------------- Registered Linux user #287453 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 22:22:14 -0500 From: Jeep Nut Subject: fsj: Re: This weekend's lessons Yeah, but look at what you're going through! All I did was swap in an engine that was already built. Man you're BUILDING your Jeep. Keep pushing, it'll be so nice when you get it all done. I know where there are 2 J trucks sitting but they are for sure much older and last I took a glance at them they are very rough. I'll look closer next time I'm over at Gary's yard. JeepNut Neal Hoover wrote: >congrats! >sounds like you're having a ball with your fsj. >i wish my project were going as well as yours right now.... > >Neal A. Hoover >Project '76 J-10 >Project '96 XJ >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Jeep Nut" >To: "FSJ List" >Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 11:43 PM >Subject: fsj: This weekend's lessons > > > > >>If nothing else I learned two things this weekend. >>1. Carburetors do not like air leaking into them from passages which >>were not purposely designed into the unit. >>2. You can adjust linkage until you're blue in the face, but if it >>isn't connected on the OTHER END, it won't matter... >> ROFL. >> Thanks for the push Jim.... the tranny rod had popped loose at the >>bottom of the linkage arm. >> >>On another happy note, first report on mileage. UP 50%!! >>First tank through the beastie and it shows up at 15.3! OH my. That >>sure beats 10.6 ALL to heck which was the BEST I could muster from the >>old engine. >>This is just as cool as it can be. Vastly increased powerband and >>better mileage by 50%. >>Not many mods will get you that combination. >> >> JeepNut >> >> >> > > > > > - -- "Microsoft Certified Professionals are to the computing industry what McDonalds Certified Food Specialists are to gourmet restaurants." -Michael Bacarella 00Mar15 - ---------------------------------------------------------- '87 Street Comanche #24/100 '88 Grand Wagoneer ...and they say there's only one... '92 Cherokee Laredo - ---------------------------------------------------------- Registered Linux user #287453 ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #2253 **************************