From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Tue Sep 21 22:08:34 2004 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Wednesday, September 22 2004 Volume 01 : Number 2254 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: fsj: OT (for the xj-list): my J-truck bed panel woes fsj: Re: This weekend's lessons Re: fsj: Re: This weekend's lessons Re: fsj: Re: This weekend's lessons fsj: loss of oil pressure! Re: fsj: loss of oil pressure! FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 07:17:52 -0400 From: "Neal Hoover" Subject: Re: fsj: OT (for the xj-list): my J-truck bed panel woes indeed. no, this is the only place i know of where they are available. Neal A. Hoover Project '76 J-10 Project '96 XJ - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeep Nut" To: "Neal Hoover" Cc: Sent: Monday, September 20, 2004 11:13 PM Subject: Re: fsj: OT (for the xj-list): my J-truck bed panel woes > Amazing how different those are from OEM. Wish I had some useful > suggestions... > I don't suppose there are many places to get these replacement panels > either. Not like you can just "shop elsewhere".... > > > Neal Hoover wrote: > > >ok, so i've been awaiting my replacement bed panels for my j-truck for quite > >some time now, and they finally came in. but they weren't what i expected, > >as you can see from the pics at this link... > >http://community.webshots.com/album/175759714oUyqwP (the 3 pics at the end > >of the album show the new panels) > > > >to make a long story short, the bends in the sheet metal at the very top of > >the panels (where it transitions from the vertical portion to the horizontal > >portion) are completely wrong. the tough part is, i don't have any way to > >form sheet metal in my humble Hangar of a garage. does anyone with sheet > >metal experience have any ideas on how to get those bends right from their > >current state? > >(btw, don't send suggestions on sending them back and getting others - i've > >already gone that route to no avail.) > >also, i've already tried to lessen the acuteness of the sharpest bend over > >the weekend with some flat hardwood stock, a bunch of c-clamps, and a lot of > >grunting. that sheet metal is pretty strong when it gets bent that far, and > >it really doesn't want to come out. > > > >can anyone help out a tired and worn-out j-truck restorer? > > > >Neal A. Hoover > >Project '76 J-10 > >Project '96 XJ > > > > > > > > > -- > "Microsoft Certified Professionals are to the computing > industry what McDonalds Certified Food Specialists are to > gourmet restaurants." -Michael Bacarella 00Mar15 > ---------------------------------------------------------- > '87 Street Comanche #24/100 > '88 Grand Wagoneer ...and they say there's only one... > '92 Cherokee Laredo > ---------------------------------------------------------- > Registered Linux user #287453 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 07:23:02 -0400 From: "Neal Hoover" Subject: fsj: Re: This weekend's lessons thanks for the encouragement. i'm needing it about now. sometimes when i get burried in the middle of a project, it's easy to get bogged down because i can't see any light from the proverbial end of the tunnel. i'm also pretty hard on myself, which makes it tough for me to appreciate what i had done up to that point. fwiw, i *am* happy about another shipment that should be in soon. it's a "new" cab that's being shipped in from Cali. hopefully with little to NO rust. wouldn't that be killer? :-D Neal A. Hoover Project '76 J-10 Project '96 XJ - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeep Nut" To: "Neal Hoover" Cc: Sent: Monday, September 20, 2004 11:22 PM Subject: Re: This weekend's lessons > Yeah, but look at what you're going through! > All I did was swap in an engine that was already built. > Man you're BUILDING your Jeep. > Keep pushing, it'll be so nice when you get it all done. > I know where there are 2 J trucks sitting but they are for sure much > older and last I took a glance at them they are very rough. > I'll look closer next time I'm over at Gary's yard. > JeepNut > > > Neal Hoover wrote: > > >congrats! > >sounds like you're having a ball with your fsj. > >i wish my project were going as well as yours right now.... > > > >Neal A. Hoover > >Project '76 J-10 > >Project '96 XJ > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Jeep Nut" > >To: "FSJ List" > >Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 11:43 PM > >Subject: fsj: This weekend's lessons > > > > > > > > > >>If nothing else I learned two things this weekend. > >>1. Carburetors do not like air leaking into them from passages which > >>were not purposely designed into the unit. > >>2. You can adjust linkage until you're blue in the face, but if it > >>isn't connected on the OTHER END, it won't matter... > >> ROFL. > >> Thanks for the push Jim.... the tranny rod had popped loose at the > >>bottom of the linkage arm. > >> > >>On another happy note, first report on mileage. UP 50%!! > >>First tank through the beastie and it shows up at 15.3! OH my. That > >>sure beats 10.6 ALL to heck which was the BEST I could muster from the > >>old engine. > >>This is just as cool as it can be. Vastly increased powerband and > >>better mileage by 50%. > >>Not many mods will get you that combination. > >> > >> JeepNut > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > "Microsoft Certified Professionals are to the computing > industry what McDonalds Certified Food Specialists are to > gourmet restaurants." -Michael Bacarella 00Mar15 > ---------------------------------------------------------- > '87 Street Comanche #24/100 > '88 Grand Wagoneer ...and they say there's only one... > '92 Cherokee Laredo > ---------------------------------------------------------- > Registered Linux user #287453 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 22:41:59 -0500 From: Jeep Nut Subject: Re: fsj: Re: This weekend's lessons Hey, I just had a thought... Do you know what a Forward Control Jeep is? I think they're cool but they are far too old and require far too much rebuilding generally for me to even START thinking about getting deeply involved, but I do watch this list as I like seeing the pictures, learning, etc. I really would love to have one of these, but already rebuilt or close to done would be the only way I could get one. But these guys amaze me. I've seen in the past that they have discussed that in India of all places they still manufacture some of these Forward Control parts. The sheet metal door skins, panels, etc. Somehow there's an Indian connection there and they are able to import these pieces through someone who is involved on the list and keep these old Jeeps alive and restored. It might be worth subscribing and monitoring a few weeks. Not a hugely active list, but I would see about checking the archives for some info on body panel parts, etc and see if you can figure out how to reach the guy who does the importing. He might not have Jtruck parts, but might know who would know somebody who does... Another thing I thought of was a Korean connection. I mean, if Kia is still making the M715's over there, maybe there's a chance that someone has a line on a foreign connection for the J truck parts. Brazil? Don't know why I thought of Brazil just now. Didn't Jim post a note about J trucks being rebuilt in Brazil? Somebody could know somebody, whose heard of somebody, somewhere, etc... Subscribe: forwardcontrol-subscribe-at-yahoogroups.com Might be worth a shot... JeepNut Neal Hoover wrote: >thanks for the encouragement. i'm needing it about now. >sometimes when i get burried in the middle of a project, it's easy to get >bogged down because i can't see any light from the proverbial end of the >tunnel. i'm also pretty hard on myself, which makes it tough for me to >appreciate what i had done up to that point. > >fwiw, i *am* happy about another shipment that should be in soon. it's a >"new" cab that's being shipped in from Cali. hopefully with little to NO >rust. wouldn't that be killer? >:-D > >Neal A. Hoover >Project '76 J-10 >Project '96 XJ >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Jeep Nut" >To: "Neal Hoover" >Cc: >Sent: Monday, September 20, 2004 11:22 PM >Subject: Re: This weekend's lessons > > > > >>Yeah, but look at what you're going through! >>All I did was swap in an engine that was already built. >>Man you're BUILDING your Jeep. >>Keep pushing, it'll be so nice when you get it all done. >>I know where there are 2 J trucks sitting but they are for sure much >>older and last I took a glance at them they are very rough. >>I'll look closer next time I'm over at Gary's yard. >> JeepNut >> >> >>Neal Hoover wrote: >> >> >> >>>congrats! >>>sounds like you're having a ball with your fsj. >>>i wish my project were going as well as yours right now.... >>> >>>Neal A. Hoover >>>Project '76 J-10 >>>Project '96 XJ >>>----- Original Message ----- >>>From: "Jeep Nut" >>>To: "FSJ List" >>>Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 11:43 PM >>>Subject: fsj: This weekend's lessons >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>If nothing else I learned two things this weekend. >>>>1. Carburetors do not like air leaking into them from passages which >>>>were not purposely designed into the unit. >>>>2. You can adjust linkage until you're blue in the face, but if it >>>>isn't connected on the OTHER END, it won't matter... >>>>ROFL. >>>> Thanks for the push Jim.... the tranny rod had popped loose at the >>>>bottom of the linkage arm. >>>> >>>>On another happy note, first report on mileage. UP 50%!! >>>>First tank through the beastie and it shows up at 15.3! OH my. That >>>>sure beats 10.6 ALL to heck which was the BEST I could muster from the >>>>old engine. >>>>This is just as cool as it can be. Vastly increased powerband and >>>>better mileage by 50%. >>>>Not many mods will get you that combination. >>>> >>>> JeepNut >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>-- >>"Microsoft Certified Professionals are to the computing >>industry what McDonalds Certified Food Specialists are to >>gourmet restaurants." -Michael Bacarella 00Mar15 >>---------------------------------------------------------- >>'87 Street Comanche #24/100 >>'88 Grand Wagoneer ...and they say there's only one... >>'92 Cherokee Laredo >>---------------------------------------------------------- >>Registered Linux user #287453 >> >> > > > - -- "Microsoft Certified Professionals are to the computing industry what McDonalds Certified Food Specialists are to gourmet restaurants." -Michael Bacarella 00Mar15 - ---------------------------------------------------------- '87 Street Comanche #24/100 '88 Grand Wagoneer ...and they say there's only one... '92 Cherokee Laredo - ---------------------------------------------------------- Registered Linux user #287453 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 20:53:33 -0700 From: john meister Subject: Re: fsj: Re: This weekend's lessons I've toyed with the idea of getting an FC. Also toyed with the idea of getting a Willys Pickup or another Wagon... then I realize that I don't have a garage and already own more vehicles than some small countries and really don't need any more projects... :) john Jeep Nut wrote: > Hey, I just had a thought... > Do you know what a Forward Control Jeep is? > I think they're cool but they are far too old and require far too much > rebuilding generally for me to even START thinking about getting deeply > involved, but I do watch this list as I like seeing the pictures, > learning, etc. I really would love to have one of these, but already > rebuilt or close to done would be the only way I could get one. > But these guys amaze me. I've seen in the past that they have discussed > that in India of all places they still manufacture some of these Forward > Control parts. The sheet metal door skins, panels, etc. Somehow > there's an Indian connection there and they are able to import these > pieces through someone who is involved on the list and keep these old > Jeeps alive and restored. > It might be worth subscribing and monitoring a few weeks. Not a hugely > active list, but I would see about checking the archives for some info > on body panel parts, etc and see if you can figure out how to reach the > guy who does the importing. He might not have Jtruck parts, but might > know who would know somebody who does... > Another thing I thought of was a Korean connection. I mean, if Kia is > still making the M715's over there, maybe there's a chance that someone > has a line on a foreign connection for the J truck parts. Brazil? > Don't know why I thought of Brazil just now. Didn't Jim post a note > about J trucks being rebuilt in Brazil? > Somebody could know somebody, whose heard of somebody, somewhere, etc... > > Subscribe: forwardcontrol-subscribe-at-yahoogroups.com > Might be worth a shot... > JeepNut > > > Neal Hoover wrote: > >> thanks for the encouragement. i'm needing it about now. >> sometimes when i get burried in the middle of a project, it's easy to get >> bogged down because i can't see any light from the proverbial end of the >> tunnel. i'm also pretty hard on myself, which makes it tough for me to >> appreciate what i had done up to that point. >> >> fwiw, i *am* happy about another shipment that should be in soon. it's a >> "new" cab that's being shipped in from Cali. hopefully with little to NO >> rust. wouldn't that be killer? >> :-D >> >> Neal A. Hoover >> Project '76 J-10 >> Project '96 XJ >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeep Nut" >> To: "Neal Hoover" >> Cc: >> Sent: Monday, September 20, 2004 11:22 PM >> Subject: Re: This weekend's lessons >> >> >> >> >>> Yeah, but look at what you're going through! >>> All I did was swap in an engine that was already built. >>> Man you're BUILDING your Jeep. >>> Keep pushing, it'll be so nice when you get it all done. >>> I know where there are 2 J trucks sitting but they are for sure much >>> older and last I took a glance at them they are very rough. >>> I'll look closer next time I'm over at Gary's yard. >>> JeepNut >>> >>> >>> Neal Hoover wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>> congrats! >>>> sounds like you're having a ball with your fsj. >>>> i wish my project were going as well as yours right now.... >>>> >>>> Neal A. Hoover >>>> Project '76 J-10 >>>> Project '96 XJ >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeep Nut" >>>> To: "FSJ List" >>>> Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 11:43 PM >>>> Subject: fsj: This weekend's lessons >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> If nothing else I learned two things this weekend. >>>>> 1. Carburetors do not like air leaking into them from passages which >>>>> were not purposely designed into the unit. >>>>> 2. You can adjust linkage until you're blue in the face, but if it >>>>> isn't connected on the OTHER END, it won't matter... >>>>> ROFL. >>>>> Thanks for the push Jim.... the tranny rod had popped loose at the >>>>> bottom of the linkage arm. >>>>> >>>>> On another happy note, first report on mileage. UP 50%!! >>>>> First tank through the beastie and it shows up at 15.3! OH my. That >>>>> sure beats 10.6 ALL to heck which was the BEST I could muster from the >>>>> old engine. >>>>> This is just as cool as it can be. Vastly increased powerband and >>>>> better mileage by 50%. >>>>> Not many mods will get you that combination. >>>>> >>>>> JeepNut >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> "Microsoft Certified Professionals are to the computing >>> industry what McDonalds Certified Food Specialists are to >>> gourmet restaurants." -Michael Bacarella 00Mar15 >>> ---------------------------------------------------------- >>> '87 Street Comanche #24/100 >>> '88 Grand Wagoneer ...and they say there's only one... >>> '92 Cherokee Laredo >>> ---------------------------------------------------------- >>> Registered Linux user #287453 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 23:45:41 -0500 From: Jeep Nut Subject: fsj: loss of oil pressure! Woah! I got scared out of my pants tonight and need your best ideas guys.... Coming home very late tonight for the 2nd night in a row, and was cruising 60+ on the main road toward home, curves left and right here and there, it isn't like I was up on two wheels or anything near it, really not going all THAT fast, but get this....as I got into this long left-hand sweeper, I heard this odd noise,... diesel sound?... wait, I know what that is, THAT's KNOCKING!!!! I looked down and the oil pressure as ZIP! OMG! I backed off immediately and it cruised down to under 40 as I came out of the curve and the pressure went back up. So I maintained the slower speed and of course the noise abated as soon as the pressure returned. Then as a couple of miles went by, and my mind was racing and the adrenalin started to fade, I couldn't recall if it was a left or right that made it happen, so I tried to induce this problem again (BRIEFLY) just to be sure what was happening, and sure enough on a LEFT hand curve, the oil pressure can be easily made to drop to near 0, on a RIGHT hand curve, all seems well. Now this has been bothering me, but I hadn't yet mentioned it. The oil pressure seems low on this pup. But I'm sure I've read on the list here that these 360's run low numbers for oil pressure, so I haven't been terribly concerned. But I am now. I was thinking about replacing the oil pressure switch anyway. I had to swap in the one out of my old engine since the wiring harness connector for the 88 is different from the AMC version. But since I got it all up and running, I have noticed this: Stone Cold 50-60 on the gauge but drops from that rapidly as it warms up. Fully warmed up at 45-55mph, about 25-30 on the gauge. Fully warmed up at 30-40mph, about 20 on the gauge. At idle warm, about 10-15 on the gauge. But like I said, I haven't put much stock in these numbers as I wasn't really sure the sender was at all accurate. But now I don't think so much that the sender is bad. It may indeed be reporting the correct conditions. Lower-than-wanted oil pressures. It is not low on oil. Hasn't used a drop of oil of course, and still only VERY minor seeps. Only drips are out of that pressure relief port plug -I think it is- by the oil filter. Just a few drops a day. Running Valvoline Full Synthetic 5W30 or 10W30 I think it was.... What in the world is going on here guys? Any ideas? Even if the oil pickup tube is on the left side of the pan I would think there would be PLENTY of oil in the pan to keep it from sucking dry.... I'm confused. But I haven't had an oil pan off of a 360 so I don't know. All kinds of things in my mind now. Wondering if there is a "high volume" pump in there and maybe I'm pumping the pan close to dry? Do I have the wrong oil? All kinds of things in my mind.... but I'm scared now to even start it.... and even more afraid to let my WIFE know there might be a problem ...LOL...wimper, wimper... Thanks for any feedback. a very concerned JeepNut - -- "Microsoft Certified Professionals are to the computing industry what McDonalds Certified Food Specialists are to gourmet restaurants." -Michael Bacarella 00Mar15 - ---------------------------------------------------------- '87 Street Comanche #24/100 '88 Grand Wagoneer ...and they say there's only one... '92 Cherokee Laredo - ---------------------------------------------------------- Registered Linux user #287453 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 22:01:41 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: loss of oil pressure! I'm not a fan of Valvoline, but if it's a true synthetic, of course it would be interesting to know if they use a polyol esther, dibasic acid esther or some other blend... some of the major oil companies have been making a synthesized hydrocarbon and calling it synthetic... ...even if that were the case, it's still better then dino oil. If it's a well formulated synthetic, which it may not be considering it's valvoline, it should be fine with the lower weight you're running. But even that probably isn't the problem... I wonder if your oil pan has any kind of baffling in it. The oil pickup is on the right side or in the back, can't remember... but one of the things that wears out on these old 360's is the timing cover, and that's where the oil pump lives. It's quite possible that it loosed prime in the left turn because the oil isn't there... using light oil that's synthetic it could find it's way to the side of the pan in a turn... I'm not sure what to suggest... changing oil, rebuilding the oil pump or dropping the pan to check to see if there is a baffle and whether or not your pick up is sitting correctly in the pan... changing the oil won't help if there is something amiss with the pickup/pump... on the other hand dropping that pan and getting those seals all back in place is not exactly a favorite weekend recreation project either... :( Let's see what the other sages on the list have to offer in the way of hope, or doom and gloom. ;) john On Tue, 21 Sep 2004, Jeep Nut wrote: >-->Woah! I got scared out of my pants tonight and need your best ideas >-->guys.... >-->Coming home very late tonight for the 2nd night in a row, and was >-->cruising 60+ on the main road toward home, curves left and right here >-->and there, it isn't like I was up on two wheels or anything near it, >-->really not going all THAT fast, but get this....as I got into this long >-->left-hand sweeper, I heard this odd noise,... diesel sound?... wait, I >-->know what that is, THAT's KNOCKING!!!! I looked down and the oil >-->pressure as ZIP! OMG! >-->I backed off immediately and it cruised down to under 40 as I came out >-->of the curve and the pressure went back up. So I maintained the slower >-->speed and of course the noise abated as soon as the pressure returned. >-->Then as a couple of miles went by, and my mind was racing and the >-->adrenalin started to fade, I couldn't recall if it was a left or right >-->that made it happen, so I tried to induce this problem again (BRIEFLY) >-->just to be sure what was happening, and sure enough on a LEFT hand >-->curve, the oil pressure can be easily made to drop to near 0, on a RIGHT >-->hand curve, all seems well. >--> >-->Now this has been bothering me, but I hadn't yet mentioned it. The oil >-->pressure seems low on this pup. >-->But I'm sure I've read on the list here that these 360's run low numbers >-->for oil pressure, so I haven't been terribly concerned. But I am now. >-->I was thinking about replacing the oil pressure switch anyway. I had to >-->swap in the one out of my old engine since the wiring harness connector >-->for the 88 is different from the AMC version. But since I got it all up >-->and running, I have noticed this: >--> >-->Stone Cold 50-60 on the gauge but drops from that rapidly as it warms up. >-->Fully warmed up at 45-55mph, about 25-30 on the gauge. >-->Fully warmed up at 30-40mph, about 20 on the gauge. >-->At idle warm, about 10-15 on the gauge. >--> >-->But like I said, I haven't put much stock in these numbers as I wasn't >-->really sure the sender was at all accurate. But now I don't think so >-->much that the sender is bad. It may indeed be reporting the correct >-->conditions. Lower-than-wanted oil pressures. >--> >-->It is not low on oil. >-->Hasn't used a drop of oil of course, and still only VERY minor seeps. >-->Only drips are out of that pressure relief port plug -I think it is- by >-->the oil filter. Just a few drops a day. >-->Running Valvoline Full Synthetic 5W30 or 10W30 I think it was.... >--> >-->What in the world is going on here guys? Any ideas? >-->Even if the oil pickup tube is on the left side of the pan I would think >-->there would be PLENTY of oil in the pan to keep it from sucking dry.... >-->I'm confused. But I haven't had an oil pan off of a 360 so I don't know. >--> >-->All kinds of things in my mind now. Wondering if there is a "high >-->volume" pump in there and maybe I'm pumping the pan close to dry? Do I >-->have the wrong oil? All kinds of things in my mind.... but I'm scared >-->now to even start it.... and even more afraid to let my WIFE know there >-->might be a problem ...LOL...wimper, wimper... >-->Thanks for any feedback. >--> a very concerned JeepNut >--> >--> >-->-- >-->"Microsoft Certified Professionals are to the computing >-->industry what McDonalds Certified Food Specialists are to >-->gourmet restaurants." -Michael Bacarella 00Mar15 >-->---------------------------------------------------------- >-->'87 Street Comanche #24/100 >-->'88 Grand Wagoneer ...and they say there's only one... >-->'92 Cherokee Laredo >-->---------------------------------------------------------- >-->Registered Linux user #287453 >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #2254 **************************