From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Tue Sep 21 22:55:57 2004 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Wednesday, September 22 2004 Volume 01 : Number 2255 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: fsj: loss of oil pressure! Re: fsj: loss of oil pressure! fsj: Re: loss of oil pressure! Re: fsj: Re: loss of oil pressure! FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 00:20:09 -0500 From: Jeep Nut Subject: Re: fsj: loss of oil pressure! Yeah, and I'm down to exactly one day of vacation time. egad. Come on you ol' Amsoil pusher. ;-) I ran that other engine to 230,000 and at THAT it pulled the ol' Rez Runner back from Chicago with no worries. All on Valvoline oils for many years... but I get your point and I do understand that there are differences. I just don't think I can pay $8/qt plus shipping for oil.... Mobil 1 is what I hear is the common favorite... it runs about $5 a quart. It's better quality isn't it? But I agree, I don't think it's the oil... I guess I'll wait for Vince to pop in and let me know if he's had the oil pan off. There are a couple of 360's out in my parts box but I haven't pulled the pans off them so I don't know if there's a baffle or not in them... It doesn't seem right that the pickup is on the right side... in a left turn the oil would be pushed to that side... hmmm..... Maybe he knows if they replaced the timing chain cover when they rebuilt it.... Ohhh Viiinnce... LOL... john wrote: >I'm not a fan of Valvoline, but if it's a true synthetic, >of course it would be interesting to know if they use a polyol esther, >dibasic acid esther or some other blend... some of the major >oil companies have been making a synthesized hydrocarbon and calling >it synthetic... > >...even if that were the case, it's still better then dino oil. > >If it's a well formulated synthetic, which it may not be considering >it's valvoline, it should be fine with the lower weight you're running. > >But even that probably isn't the problem... > >I wonder if your oil pan has any kind of baffling in it. The oil >pickup is on the right side or in the back, can't remember... but >one of the things that wears out on these old 360's is the timing >cover, and that's where the oil pump lives. > >It's quite possible that it loosed prime in the left turn because >the oil isn't there... using light oil that's synthetic it could >find it's way to the side of the pan in a turn... > >I'm not sure what to suggest... changing oil, rebuilding the >oil pump or dropping the pan to check to see if there is a baffle >and whether or not your pick up is sitting correctly in the pan... > >changing the oil won't help if there is something amiss with the >pickup/pump... on the other hand dropping that pan and getting >those seals all back in place is not exactly a favorite weekend >recreation project either... :( > >Let's see what the other sages on the list have to offer in the >way of hope, or doom and gloom. ;) > >john > >On Tue, 21 Sep 2004, Jeep Nut wrote: > > > >>-->Woah! I got scared out of my pants tonight and need your best ideas >>-->guys.... >>-->Coming home very late tonight for the 2nd night in a row, and was >>-->cruising 60+ on the main road toward home, curves left and right here >>-->and there, it isn't like I was up on two wheels or anything near it, >>-->really not going all THAT fast, but get this....as I got into this long >>-->left-hand sweeper, I heard this odd noise,... diesel sound?... wait, I >>-->know what that is, THAT's KNOCKING!!!! I looked down and the oil >>-->pressure as ZIP! OMG! >>-->I backed off immediately and it cruised down to under 40 as I came out >>-->of the curve and the pressure went back up. So I maintained the slower >>-->speed and of course the noise abated as soon as the pressure returned. >>-->Then as a couple of miles went by, and my mind was racing and the >>-->adrenalin started to fade, I couldn't recall if it was a left or right >>-->that made it happen, so I tried to induce this problem again (BRIEFLY) >>-->just to be sure what was happening, and sure enough on a LEFT hand >>-->curve, the oil pressure can be easily made to drop to near 0, on a RIGHT >>-->hand curve, all seems well. >>--> >>-->Now this has been bothering me, but I hadn't yet mentioned it. The oil >>-->pressure seems low on this pup. >>-->But I'm sure I've read on the list here that these 360's run low numbers >>-->for oil pressure, so I haven't been terribly concerned. But I am now. >>-->I was thinking about replacing the oil pressure switch anyway. I had to >>-->swap in the one out of my old engine since the wiring harness connector >>-->for the 88 is different from the AMC version. But since I got it all up >>-->and running, I have noticed this: >>--> >>-->Stone Cold 50-60 on the gauge but drops from that rapidly as it warms up. >>-->Fully warmed up at 45-55mph, about 25-30 on the gauge. >>-->Fully warmed up at 30-40mph, about 20 on the gauge. >>-->At idle warm, about 10-15 on the gauge. >>--> >>-->But like I said, I haven't put much stock in these numbers as I wasn't >>-->really sure the sender was at all accurate. But now I don't think so >>-->much that the sender is bad. It may indeed be reporting the correct >>-->conditions. Lower-than-wanted oil pressures. >>--> >>-->It is not low on oil. >>-->Hasn't used a drop of oil of course, and still only VERY minor seeps. >>-->Only drips are out of that pressure relief port plug -I think it is- by >>-->the oil filter. Just a few drops a day. >>-->Running Valvoline Full Synthetic 5W30 or 10W30 I think it was.... >>--> >>-->What in the world is going on here guys? Any ideas? >>-->Even if the oil pickup tube is on the left side of the pan I would think >>-->there would be PLENTY of oil in the pan to keep it from sucking dry.... >>-->I'm confused. But I haven't had an oil pan off of a 360 so I don't know. >>--> >>-->All kinds of things in my mind now. Wondering if there is a "high >>-->volume" pump in there and maybe I'm pumping the pan close to dry? Do I >>-->have the wrong oil? All kinds of things in my mind.... but I'm scared >>-->now to even start it.... and even more afraid to let my WIFE know there >>-->might be a problem ...LOL...wimper, wimper... >>-->Thanks for any feedback. >>--> a very concerned JeepNut >>--> >>--> >>-->-- >>-->"Microsoft Certified Professionals are to the computing >>-->industry what McDonalds Certified Food Specialists are to >>-->gourmet restaurants." -Michael Bacarella 00Mar15 >>-->---------------------------------------------------------- >>-->'87 Street Comanche #24/100 >>-->'88 Grand Wagoneer ...and they say there's only one... >>-->'92 Cherokee Laredo >>-->---------------------------------------------------------- >>-->Registered Linux user #287453 >>--> >> >> > > ---- > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** > Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > - -- "Microsoft Certified Professionals are to the computing industry what McDonalds Certified Food Specialists are to gourmet restaurants." -Michael Bacarella 00Mar15 - ---------------------------------------------------------- '87 Street Comanche #24/100 '88 Grand Wagoneer ...and they say there's only one... '92 Cherokee Laredo - ---------------------------------------------------------- Registered Linux user #287453 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 22:30:10 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: loss of oil pressure! Hey, I didn't say anything about AMSOIL... didn't have to, you KNOW it's a better product. ;) I think that the weight might be a bit too thin considering that the valvoline product is unlikely to have the same thermal characteristics of amsoil, that is it won't have the ability to deal with the higher temps without thinning or having it's additive package break down... But still... it's more likely that your pump is losing prime... the pickup is toward the back... lowest part of the pan... you're not going to make me break out a shop manual this late at night are you? ;) I'd hook up a mechanical oil pressure gauge to that pump and see if it's ok... that might be the most logical thing if the pickup tube is in place... If I had an AMC V8 I'd replace it with a 4.0L, or anything I could bolt, weld or hammer into place... But yours sounds like it's pretty well set up and other than this little issue it sounds pretty nice. Too bad these AMC v8's are so heavy, otherwise they might make a great boat anchor... :) Hope you get it fixed real cheap... john On Wed, 22 Sep 2004, Jeep Nut wrote: >-->Yeah, and I'm down to exactly one day of vacation time. >-->egad. >-->Come on you ol' Amsoil pusher. ;-) >-->I ran that other engine to 230,000 and at THAT it pulled the ol' Rez >-->Runner back from Chicago with no worries. >-->All on Valvoline oils for many years... but I get your point and I do >-->understand that there are differences. >-->I just don't think I can pay $8/qt plus shipping for oil.... Mobil 1 is >-->what I hear is the common favorite... it runs about $5 a quart. It's >-->better quality isn't it? But I agree, I don't think it's the oil... >-->I guess I'll wait for Vince to pop in and let me know if he's had the >-->oil pan off. There are a couple of 360's out in my parts box but I >-->haven't pulled the pans off them so I don't know if there's a baffle or >-->not in them... >-->It doesn't seem right that the pickup is on the right side... in a left >-->turn the oil would be pushed to that side... >-->hmmm..... >-->Maybe he knows if they replaced the timing chain cover when they rebuilt >-->it.... >-->Ohhh Viiinnce... LOL... >--> >--> >-->john wrote: >--> >-->>I'm not a fan of Valvoline, but if it's a true synthetic, >-->>of course it would be interesting to know if they use a polyol esther, >-->>dibasic acid esther or some other blend... some of the major >-->>oil companies have been making a synthesized hydrocarbon and calling >-->>it synthetic... >-->> >-->>...even if that were the case, it's still better then dino oil. >-->> >-->>If it's a well formulated synthetic, which it may not be considering >-->>it's valvoline, it should be fine with the lower weight you're running. >-->> >-->>But even that probably isn't the problem... >-->> >-->>I wonder if your oil pan has any kind of baffling in it. The oil >-->>pickup is on the right side or in the back, can't remember... but >-->>one of the things that wears out on these old 360's is the timing >-->>cover, and that's where the oil pump lives. >-->> >-->>It's quite possible that it loosed prime in the left turn because >-->>the oil isn't there... using light oil that's synthetic it could >-->>find it's way to the side of the pan in a turn... >-->> >-->>I'm not sure what to suggest... changing oil, rebuilding the >-->>oil pump or dropping the pan to check to see if there is a baffle >-->>and whether or not your pick up is sitting correctly in the pan... >-->> >-->>changing the oil won't help if there is something amiss with the >-->>pickup/pump... on the other hand dropping that pan and getting >-->>those seals all back in place is not exactly a favorite weekend >-->>recreation project either... :( >-->> >-->>Let's see what the other sages on the list have to offer in the >-->>way of hope, or doom and gloom. ;) >-->> >-->>john >-->> >-->>On Tue, 21 Sep 2004, Jeep Nut wrote: >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->>>-->Woah! I got scared out of my pants tonight and need your best ideas >-->>>-->guys.... >-->>>-->Coming home very late tonight for the 2nd night in a row, and was >-->>>-->cruising 60+ on the main road toward home, curves left and right here >-->>>-->and there, it isn't like I was up on two wheels or anything near it, >-->>>-->really not going all THAT fast, but get this....as I got into this long >-->>>-->left-hand sweeper, I heard this odd noise,... diesel sound?... wait, I >-->>>-->know what that is, THAT's KNOCKING!!!! I looked down and the oil >-->>>-->pressure as ZIP! OMG! >-->>>-->I backed off immediately and it cruised down to under 40 as I came out >-->>>-->of the curve and the pressure went back up. So I maintained the slower >-->>>-->speed and of course the noise abated as soon as the pressure returned. >-->>>-->Then as a couple of miles went by, and my mind was racing and the >-->>>-->adrenalin started to fade, I couldn't recall if it was a left or right >-->>>-->that made it happen, so I tried to induce this problem again (BRIEFLY) >-->>>-->just to be sure what was happening, and sure enough on a LEFT hand >-->>>-->curve, the oil pressure can be easily made to drop to near 0, on a RIGHT >-->>>-->hand curve, all seems well. >-->>>--> >-->>>-->Now this has been bothering me, but I hadn't yet mentioned it. The oil >-->>>-->pressure seems low on this pup. >-->>>-->But I'm sure I've read on the list here that these 360's run low numbers >-->>>-->for oil pressure, so I haven't been terribly concerned. But I am now. >-->>>-->I was thinking about replacing the oil pressure switch anyway. I had to >-->>>-->swap in the one out of my old engine since the wiring harness connector >-->>>-->for the 88 is different from the AMC version. But since I got it all up >-->>>-->and running, I have noticed this: >-->>>--> >-->>>-->Stone Cold 50-60 on the gauge but drops from that rapidly as it warms up. >-->>>-->Fully warmed up at 45-55mph, about 25-30 on the gauge. >-->>>-->Fully warmed up at 30-40mph, about 20 on the gauge. >-->>>-->At idle warm, about 10-15 on the gauge. >-->>>--> >-->>>-->But like I said, I haven't put much stock in these numbers as I wasn't >-->>>-->really sure the sender was at all accurate. But now I don't think so >-->>>-->much that the sender is bad. It may indeed be reporting the correct >-->>>-->conditions. Lower-than-wanted oil pressures. >-->>>--> >-->>>-->It is not low on oil. >-->>>-->Hasn't used a drop of oil of course, and still only VERY minor seeps. >-->>>-->Only drips are out of that pressure relief port plug -I think it is- by >-->>>-->the oil filter. Just a few drops a day. >-->>>-->Running Valvoline Full Synthetic 5W30 or 10W30 I think it was.... >-->>>--> >-->>>-->What in the world is going on here guys? Any ideas? >-->>>-->Even if the oil pickup tube is on the left side of the pan I would think >-->>>-->there would be PLENTY of oil in the pan to keep it from sucking dry.... >-->>>-->I'm confused. But I haven't had an oil pan off of a 360 so I don't know. >-->>>--> >-->>>-->All kinds of things in my mind now. Wondering if there is a "high >-->>>-->volume" pump in there and maybe I'm pumping the pan close to dry? Do I >-->>>-->have the wrong oil? All kinds of things in my mind.... but I'm scared >-->>>-->now to even start it.... and even more afraid to let my WIFE know there >-->>>-->might be a problem ...LOL...wimper, wimper... >-->>>-->Thanks for any feedback. >-->>>--> a very concerned JeepNut >-->>>--> >-->>>--> >-->>>-->-- >-->>>-->"Microsoft Certified Professionals are to the computing >-->>>-->industry what McDonalds Certified Food Specialists are to >-->>>-->gourmet restaurants." -Michael Bacarella 00Mar15 >-->>>-->---------------------------------------------------------- >-->>>-->'87 Street Comanche #24/100 >-->>>-->'88 Grand Wagoneer ...and they say there's only one... >-->>>-->'92 Cherokee Laredo >-->>>-->---------------------------------------------------------- >-->>>-->Registered Linux user #287453 >-->>>--> >-->>> >-->>> >-->> >-->> ---- >-->> >-->>------------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->> ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** >-->> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. >-->>------------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> >--> >--> >-->-- >-->"Microsoft Certified Professionals are to the computing >-->industry what McDonalds Certified Food Specialists are to >-->gourmet restaurants." -Michael Bacarella 00Mar15 >-->---------------------------------------------------------- >-->'87 Street Comanche #24/100 >-->'88 Grand Wagoneer ...and they say there's only one... >-->'92 Cherokee Laredo >-->---------------------------------------------------------- >-->Registered Linux user #287453 >--> >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 22:30:44 -0700 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: fsj: Re: loss of oil pressure! A: Sounds to me like you need to swap out the oil filter and maybe even clean out the oil pan. I don't put synthetic in a motor with any amount of mileage because it can knock crud loose that you don't want wandering around inside and it can clog your oil pickup screen in a flash! (if you have a Fram filter, it could be collapsed and high RPMs close it off totally. 2 more people I know lost their AMC motors to Frams in the past month) Woah! I got scared out of my pants tonight and need your best ideas guys.... Coming home very late tonight for the 2nd night in a row, and was cruising 60+ on the main road toward home, curves left and right here and there, it isn't like I was up on two wheels or anything near it, really not going all THAT fast, but get this....as I got into this long left-hand sweeper, I heard this odd noise,... diesel sound?... wait, I know what that is, THAT's KNOCKING!!!! I looked down and the oil pressure as ZIP! OMG! I backed off immediately and it cruised down to under 40 as I came out of the curve and the pressure went back up. So I maintained the slower speed and of course the noise abated as soon as the pressure returned. Then as a couple of miles went by, and my mind was racing and the adrenalin started to fade, I couldn't recall if it was a left or right that made it happen, so I tried to induce this problem again (BRIEFLY) just to be sure what was happening, and sure enough on a LEFT hand curve, the oil pressure can be easily made to drop to near 0, on a RIGHT hand curve, all seems well. Now this has been bothering me, but I hadn't yet mentioned it. The oil pressure seems low on this pup. But I'm sure I've read on the list here that these 360's run low numbers for oil pressure, so I haven't been terribly concerned. But I am now. I was thinking about replacing the oil pressure switch anyway. I had to swap in the one out of my old engine since the wiring harness connector for the 88 is different from the AMC version. But since I got it all up and running, I have noticed this: Stone Cold 50-60 on the gauge but drops from that rapidly as it warms up. Fully warmed up at 45-55mph, about 25-30 on the gauge. Fully warmed up at 30-40mph, about 20 on the gauge. At idle warm, about 10-15 on the gauge. But like I said, I haven't put much stock in these numbers as I wasn't really sure the sender was at all accurate. But now I don't think so much that the sender is bad. It may indeed be reporting the correct conditions. Lower-than-wanted oil pressures. It is not low on oil. Hasn't used a drop of oil of course, and still only VERY minor seeps. Only drips are out of that pressure relief port plug -I think it is- by the oil filter. Just a few drops a day. Running Valvoline Full Synthetic 5W30 or 10W30 I think it was.... What in the world is going on here guys? Any ideas? Even if the oil pickup tube is on the left side of the pan I would think there would be PLENTY of oil in the pan to keep it from sucking dry.... I'm confused. But I haven't had an oil pan off of a 360 so I don't know. All kinds of things in my mind now. Wondering if there is a "high volume" pump in there and maybe I'm pumping the pan close to dry? Do I have the wrong oil? All kinds of things in my mind.... but I'm scared now to even start it.... and even more afraid to let my WIFE know there might be a problem ...LOL...wimper, wimper... Thanks for any feedback. a very concerned JeepNut ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 22:44:27 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Re: loss of oil pressure! if the oil filter clogged or collapsed wouldn't it be bypassed? and isn't this a relatively new motor? But I think swapping out the oil filter would be a lot less painful... I have heard of troubles with filters causing problems like this... Wix or Hastings would be the recommended choice if you didn't want to spring for the best... ;) the amsoil filters... ;) rofl... john On Tue, 21 Sep 2004, Jim Blair wrote: >-->A: Sounds to me like you need to swap out the oil filter and maybe even >-->clean out the oil pan. I don't put synthetic in a motor with any amount of >-->mileage because it can knock crud loose that you don't want wandering around >-->inside and it can clog your oil pickup screen in a flash! (if you have a >-->Fram filter, it could be collapsed and high RPMs close it off totally. 2 >-->more people I know lost their AMC motors to Frams in the past month) >--> >--> >--> >--> Woah! I got scared out of my pants tonight and need your best ideas >-->guys.... >-->Coming home very late tonight for the 2nd night in a row, and was >-->cruising 60+ on the main road toward home, curves left and right here >-->and there, it isn't like I was up on two wheels or anything near it, >-->really not going all THAT fast, but get this....as I got into this long >-->left-hand sweeper, I heard this odd noise,... diesel sound?... wait, I >-->know what that is, THAT's KNOCKING!!!! I looked down and the oil >-->pressure as ZIP! OMG! >-->I backed off immediately and it cruised down to under 40 as I came out >-->of the curve and the pressure went back up. So I maintained the slower >-->speed and of course the noise abated as soon as the pressure returned. >-->Then as a couple of miles went by, and my mind was racing and the >-->adrenalin started to fade, I couldn't recall if it was a left or right >-->that made it happen, so I tried to induce this problem again (BRIEFLY) >-->just to be sure what was happening, and sure enough on a LEFT hand >-->curve, the oil pressure can be easily made to drop to near 0, on a RIGHT >-->hand curve, all seems well. >--> >-->Now this has been bothering me, but I hadn't yet mentioned it. The oil >-->pressure seems low on this pup. >-->But I'm sure I've read on the list here that these 360's run low numbers >-->for oil pressure, so I haven't been terribly concerned. But I am now. >-->I was thinking about replacing the oil pressure switch anyway. I had to >-->swap in the one out of my old engine since the wiring harness connector >-->for the 88 is different from the AMC version. But since I got it all up >-->and running, I have noticed this: >--> >-->Stone Cold 50-60 on the gauge but drops from that rapidly as it warms up. >-->Fully warmed up at 45-55mph, about 25-30 on the gauge. >-->Fully warmed up at 30-40mph, about 20 on the gauge. >-->At idle warm, about 10-15 on the gauge. >--> >-->But like I said, I haven't put much stock in these numbers as I wasn't >-->really sure the sender was at all accurate. But now I don't think so >-->much that the sender is bad. It may indeed be reporting the correct >-->conditions. Lower-than-wanted oil pressures. >--> >-->It is not low on oil. >-->Hasn't used a drop of oil of course, and still only VERY minor seeps. >-->Only drips are out of that pressure relief port plug -I think it is- by >-->the oil filter. Just a few drops a day. >-->Running Valvoline Full Synthetic 5W30 or 10W30 I think it was.... >--> >-->What in the world is going on here guys? Any ideas? >-->Even if the oil pickup tube is on the left side of the pan I would think >-->there would be PLENTY of oil in the pan to keep it from sucking dry.... >-->I'm confused. But I haven't had an oil pan off of a 360 so I don't know. >--> >-->All kinds of things in my mind now. Wondering if there is a "high >-->volume" pump in there and maybe I'm pumping the pan close to dry? Do I >-->have the wrong oil? All kinds of things in my mind.... but I'm scared >-->now to even start it.... and even more afraid to let my WIFE know there >-->might be a problem ...LOL...wimper, wimper... >-->Thanks for any feedback. >--> a very concerned JeepNut >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #2255 **************************