From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Wed Sep 22 07:47:39 2004 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Wednesday, September 22 2004 Volume 01 : Number 2256 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: fsj: Re: This weekend's lessons Re: fsj: loss of oil pressure! fsj: fc jeep Re: fsj: loss of oil pressure! FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 07:10:01 -0400 From: "Neal Hoover" Subject: Re: fsj: Re: This weekend's lessons definitely sounds like it may be worth checking out, anyway! thanks. Neal A. Hoover Project '76 J-10 Project '96 XJ - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeep Nut" To: "Neal Hoover" Cc: Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2004 11:41 PM Subject: Re: fsj: Re: This weekend's lessons > Hey, I just had a thought... > Do you know what a Forward Control Jeep is? > I think they're cool but they are far too old and require far too much > rebuilding generally for me to even START thinking about getting deeply > involved, but I do watch this list as I like seeing the pictures, > learning, etc. I really would love to have one of these, but already > rebuilt or close to done would be the only way I could get one. > But these guys amaze me. I've seen in the past that they have discussed > that in India of all places they still manufacture some of these Forward > Control parts. The sheet metal door skins, panels, etc. Somehow > there's an Indian connection there and they are able to import these > pieces through someone who is involved on the list and keep these old > Jeeps alive and restored. > It might be worth subscribing and monitoring a few weeks. Not a hugely > active list, but I would see about checking the archives for some info > on body panel parts, etc and see if you can figure out how to reach the > guy who does the importing. He might not have Jtruck parts, but might > know who would know somebody who does... > Another thing I thought of was a Korean connection. I mean, if Kia is > still making the M715's over there, maybe there's a chance that someone > has a line on a foreign connection for the J truck parts. Brazil? > Don't know why I thought of Brazil just now. Didn't Jim post a note > about J trucks being rebuilt in Brazil? > Somebody could know somebody, whose heard of somebody, somewhere, etc... > > Subscribe: forwardcontrol-subscribe-at-yahoogroups.com > Might be worth a shot... > JeepNut > > > Neal Hoover wrote: > > >thanks for the encouragement. i'm needing it about now. > >sometimes when i get burried in the middle of a project, it's easy to get > >bogged down because i can't see any light from the proverbial end of the > >tunnel. i'm also pretty hard on myself, which makes it tough for me to > >appreciate what i had done up to that point. > > > >fwiw, i *am* happy about another shipment that should be in soon. it's a > >"new" cab that's being shipped in from Cali. hopefully with little to NO > >rust. wouldn't that be killer? > >:-D > > > >Neal A. Hoover > >Project '76 J-10 > >Project '96 XJ > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Jeep Nut" > >To: "Neal Hoover" > >Cc: > >Sent: Monday, September 20, 2004 11:22 PM > >Subject: Re: This weekend's lessons > > > > > > > > > >>Yeah, but look at what you're going through! > >>All I did was swap in an engine that was already built. > >>Man you're BUILDING your Jeep. > >>Keep pushing, it'll be so nice when you get it all done. > >>I know where there are 2 J trucks sitting but they are for sure much > >>older and last I took a glance at them they are very rough. > >>I'll look closer next time I'm over at Gary's yard. > >> JeepNut > >> > >> > >>Neal Hoover wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >>>congrats! > >>>sounds like you're having a ball with your fsj. > >>>i wish my project were going as well as yours right now.... > >>> > >>>Neal A. Hoover > >>>Project '76 J-10 > >>>Project '96 XJ > >>>----- Original Message ----- > >>>From: "Jeep Nut" > >>>To: "FSJ List" > >>>Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 11:43 PM > >>>Subject: fsj: This weekend's lessons > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>>If nothing else I learned two things this weekend. > >>>>1. Carburetors do not like air leaking into them from passages which > >>>>were not purposely designed into the unit. > >>>>2. You can adjust linkage until you're blue in the face, but if it > >>>>isn't connected on the OTHER END, it won't matter... > >>>>ROFL. > >>>> Thanks for the push Jim.... the tranny rod had popped loose at the > >>>>bottom of the linkage arm. > >>>> > >>>>On another happy note, first report on mileage. UP 50%!! > >>>>First tank through the beastie and it shows up at 15.3! OH my. That > >>>>sure beats 10.6 ALL to heck which was the BEST I could muster from the > >>>>old engine. > >>>>This is just as cool as it can be. Vastly increased powerband and > >>>>better mileage by 50%. > >>>>Not many mods will get you that combination. > >>>> > >>>> JeepNut > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>-- > >>"Microsoft Certified Professionals are to the computing > >>industry what McDonalds Certified Food Specialists are to > >>gourmet restaurants." -Michael Bacarella 00Mar15 > >>---------------------------------------------------------- > >>'87 Street Comanche #24/100 > >>'88 Grand Wagoneer ...and they say there's only one... > >>'92 Cherokee Laredo > >>---------------------------------------------------------- > >>Registered Linux user #287453 > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > -- > "Microsoft Certified Professionals are to the computing > industry what McDonalds Certified Food Specialists are to > gourmet restaurants." -Michael Bacarella 00Mar15 > ---------------------------------------------------------- > '87 Street Comanche #24/100 > '88 Grand Wagoneer ...and they say there's only one... > '92 Cherokee Laredo > ---------------------------------------------------------- > Registered Linux user #287453 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 06:30:46 -0500 From: "Vince Orr" Subject: Re: fsj: loss of oil pressure! Wierd. I've never had this problem with either one of the engines I had in Rez Runner. When I built the engine, I used a "good" timing cover I got out of the bone yard. And I put in a new oil pump assembly for good measure. I know there is a pressure bypass valve in there. You might want to take it out and see if it is clogged with crud or something. Also check the spring against a new one if you can. On Rez's old engine I replaced the spring and it actually improved the old motor a little. IN FACT, you should have the old timing cover in the parts I gave you so just pull the spring and plunger out of it and use them if you have to. They are practically new. - --Vince - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeep Nut" To: "john" Cc: "FSJ List" ; "Vince Orr" Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 12:20 AM Subject: Re: fsj: loss of oil pressure! > Yeah, and I'm down to exactly one day of vacation time. > egad. > Come on you ol' Amsoil pusher. ;-) I ran that other engine to 230,000 > and at THAT it pulled the ol' Rez Runner back from Chicago with no > worries. > All on Valvoline oils for many years... but I get your point and I do > understand that there are differences. > I just don't think I can pay $8/qt plus shipping for oil.... Mobil 1 is > what I hear is the common favorite... it runs about $5 a quart. It's > better quality isn't it? But I agree, I don't think it's the oil... > I guess I'll wait for Vince to pop in and let me know if he's had the oil > pan off. There are a couple of 360's out in my parts box but I haven't > pulled the pans off them so I don't know if there's a baffle or not in > them... > It doesn't seem right that the pickup is on the right side... in a left > turn the oil would be pushed to that side... > hmmm..... > Maybe he knows if they replaced the timing chain cover when they rebuilt > it.... > Ohhh Viiinnce... LOL... > > john wrote: > >>I'm not a fan of Valvoline, but if it's a true synthetic, >>of course it would be interesting to know if they use a polyol esther, >>dibasic acid esther or some other blend... some of the major >>oil companies have been making a synthesized hydrocarbon and calling >>it synthetic... >> >>...even if that were the case, it's still better then dino oil. >> >>If it's a well formulated synthetic, which it may not be considering >>it's valvoline, it should be fine with the lower weight you're running. >> >>But even that probably isn't the problem... >> >>I wonder if your oil pan has any kind of baffling in it. The oil >>pickup is on the right side or in the back, can't remember... but >>one of the things that wears out on these old 360's is the timing >>cover, and that's where the oil pump lives. >> >>It's quite possible that it loosed prime in the left turn because >>the oil isn't there... using light oil that's synthetic it could >>find it's way to the side of the pan in a turn... >> >>I'm not sure what to suggest... changing oil, rebuilding the >>oil pump or dropping the pan to check to see if there is a baffle >>and whether or not your pick up is sitting correctly in the pan... >> >>changing the oil won't help if there is something amiss with the >>pickup/pump... on the other hand dropping that pan and getting >>those seals all back in place is not exactly a favorite weekend >>recreation project either... :( >> >>Let's see what the other sages on the list have to offer in the >>way of hope, or doom and gloom. ;) >> >>john >> >>On Tue, 21 Sep 2004, Jeep Nut wrote: >> >> >>>-->Woah! I got scared out of my pants tonight and need your best ideas >>>-->guys.... >>>-->Coming home very late tonight for the 2nd night in a row, and was >>>-->cruising 60+ on the main road toward home, curves left and right here >>>-->and there, it isn't like I was up on two wheels or anything near it, >>>-->really not going all THAT fast, but get this....as I got into this >>>long >>>-->left-hand sweeper, I heard this odd noise,... diesel sound?... wait, I >>>-->know what that is, THAT's KNOCKING!!!! I looked down and the oil >>>-->pressure as ZIP! OMG! >>>-->I backed off immediately and it cruised down to under 40 as I came out >>>-->of the curve and the pressure went back up. So I maintained the >>>slower >>>-->speed and of course the noise abated as soon as the pressure returned. >>>-->Then as a couple of miles went by, and my mind was racing and the >>>-->adrenalin started to fade, I couldn't recall if it was a left or right >>>-->that made it happen, so I tried to induce this problem again (BRIEFLY) >>>-->just to be sure what was happening, and sure enough on a LEFT hand >>>-->curve, the oil pressure can be easily made to drop to near 0, on a >>>RIGHT >>>-->hand curve, all seems well. >>>--> >>>-->Now this has been bothering me, but I hadn't yet mentioned it. The >>>oil >>>-->pressure seems low on this pup. >>>-->But I'm sure I've read on the list here that these 360's run low >>>numbers >>>-->for oil pressure, so I haven't been terribly concerned. But I am now. >>>-->I was thinking about replacing the oil pressure switch anyway. I had >>>to >>>-->swap in the one out of my old engine since the wiring harness >>>connector >>>-->for the 88 is different from the AMC version. But since I got it all >>>up >>>-->and running, I have noticed this: >>>--> >>>-->Stone Cold 50-60 on the gauge but drops from that rapidly as it >>>warms up. >>>-->Fully warmed up at 45-55mph, about 25-30 on the gauge. >>>-->Fully warmed up at 30-40mph, about 20 on the gauge. >>>-->At idle warm, about 10-15 on the gauge. >>>--> >>>-->But like I said, I haven't put much stock in these numbers as I wasn't >>>-->really sure the sender was at all accurate. But now I don't think so >>>-->much that the sender is bad. It may indeed be reporting the correct >>>-->conditions. Lower-than-wanted oil pressures. >>>--> >>>-->It is not low on oil. >>>-->Hasn't used a drop of oil of course, and still only VERY minor seeps. >>>-->Only drips are out of that pressure relief port plug -I think it is- >>>by >>>-->the oil filter. Just a few drops a day. >>>-->Running Valvoline Full Synthetic 5W30 or 10W30 I think it was.... >>>--> >>>-->What in the world is going on here guys? Any ideas? >>>-->Even if the oil pickup tube is on the left side of the pan I would >>>think >>>-->there would be PLENTY of oil in the pan to keep it from sucking >>>dry.... >>>-->I'm confused. But I haven't had an oil pan off of a 360 so I don't >>>know. >>>--> >>>-->All kinds of things in my mind now. Wondering if there is a "high >>>-->volume" pump in there and maybe I'm pumping the pan close to dry? Do >>>I >>>-->have the wrong oil? All kinds of things in my mind.... but I'm scared >>>-->now to even start it.... and even more afraid to let my WIFE know >>>there >>>-->might be a problem ...LOL...wimper, wimper... >>>-->Thanks for any feedback. >>>--> a very concerned JeepNut >>>--> >>>--> >>>-->-- >>>-->"Microsoft Certified Professionals are to the computing >>>-->industry what McDonalds Certified Food Specialists are to >>>-->gourmet restaurants." -Michael Bacarella 00Mar15 >>>-->---------------------------------------------------------- >>>-->'87 Street Comanche #24/100 >>>-->'88 Grand Wagoneer ...and they say there's only one... >>>-->'92 Cherokee Laredo >>>-->---------------------------------------------------------- >>>-->Registered Linux user #287453 >>>--> >>> >> >> ---- >> >>------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** >> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. >>------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> > > > -- > "Microsoft Certified Professionals are to the computing > industry what McDonalds Certified Food Specialists are to > gourmet restaurants." -Michael Bacarella 00Mar15 > ---------------------------------------------------------- > '87 Street Comanche #24/100 > '88 Grand Wagoneer ...and they say there's only one... > '92 Cherokee Laredo > ---------------------------------------------------------- > Registered Linux user #287453 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 09:06:18 -0400 (EDT) From: "Terry Wayland" Subject: fsj: fc jeep There is an FC for sale in florida. Its in exc cond. if anyone wants the no. let me know. The most personalized portal on the Web! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 07:46:20 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: loss of oil pressure! sounds like it's either the loose nut behind the wheel, the oil pickup tube, the bypass spring or a bad filter... or it could just be valvoline... I have pictures of an engine that was a victim of valvoline/pennzoil: only problem is I can't find it now... :( I really need to clean up my website... ;) john On Wed, 22 Sep 2004, Vince Orr wrote: >-->Wierd. I've never had this problem with either one of the engines I had in >-->Rez Runner. >-->When I built the engine, I used a "good" timing cover I got out of the bone >-->yard. And I put in a new oil pump assembly for good measure. I know there >-->is a pressure bypass valve in there. You might want to take it out and see >-->if it is clogged with crud or something. Also check the spring against a >-->new one if you can. On Rez's old engine I replaced the spring and it >-->actually improved the old motor a little. IN FACT, you should have the old >-->timing cover in the parts I gave you so just pull the spring and plunger out >-->of it and use them if you have to. They are practically new. >-->--Vince >--> >--> >-->----- Original Message ----- >-->From: "Jeep Nut" >-->To: "john" >-->Cc: "FSJ List" ; "Vince Orr" >-->Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 12:20 AM >-->Subject: Re: fsj: loss of oil pressure! >--> >--> >-->> Yeah, and I'm down to exactly one day of vacation time. >-->> egad. >-->> Come on you ol' Amsoil pusher. ;-) I ran that other engine to 230,000 >-->> and at THAT it pulled the ol' Rez Runner back from Chicago with no >-->> worries. >-->> All on Valvoline oils for many years... but I get your point and I do >-->> understand that there are differences. >-->> I just don't think I can pay $8/qt plus shipping for oil.... Mobil 1 is >-->> what I hear is the common favorite... it runs about $5 a quart. It's >-->> better quality isn't it? But I agree, I don't think it's the oil... >-->> I guess I'll wait for Vince to pop in and let me know if he's had the oil >-->> pan off. There are a couple of 360's out in my parts box but I haven't >-->> pulled the pans off them so I don't know if there's a baffle or not in >-->> them... >-->> It doesn't seem right that the pickup is on the right side... in a left >-->> turn the oil would be pushed to that side... >-->> hmmm..... >-->> Maybe he knows if they replaced the timing chain cover when they rebuilt >-->> it.... >-->> Ohhh Viiinnce... LOL... >-->> >-->> john wrote: >-->> >-->>>I'm not a fan of Valvoline, but if it's a true synthetic, >-->>>of course it would be interesting to know if they use a polyol esther, >-->>>dibasic acid esther or some other blend... some of the major >-->>>oil companies have been making a synthesized hydrocarbon and calling >-->>>it synthetic... >-->>> >-->>>...even if that were the case, it's still better then dino oil. >-->>> >-->>>If it's a well formulated synthetic, which it may not be considering >-->>>it's valvoline, it should be fine with the lower weight you're running. >-->>> >-->>>But even that probably isn't the problem... >-->>> >-->>>I wonder if your oil pan has any kind of baffling in it. The oil >-->>>pickup is on the right side or in the back, can't remember... but >-->>>one of the things that wears out on these old 360's is the timing >-->>>cover, and that's where the oil pump lives. >-->>> >-->>>It's quite possible that it loosed prime in the left turn because >-->>>the oil isn't there... using light oil that's synthetic it could >-->>>find it's way to the side of the pan in a turn... >-->>> >-->>>I'm not sure what to suggest... changing oil, rebuilding the >-->>>oil pump or dropping the pan to check to see if there is a baffle >-->>>and whether or not your pick up is sitting correctly in the pan... >-->>> >-->>>changing the oil won't help if there is something amiss with the >-->>>pickup/pump... on the other hand dropping that pan and getting >-->>>those seals all back in place is not exactly a favorite weekend >-->>>recreation project either... :( >-->>> >-->>>Let's see what the other sages on the list have to offer in the >-->>>way of hope, or doom and gloom. ;) >-->>> >-->>>john >-->>> >-->>>On Tue, 21 Sep 2004, Jeep Nut wrote: >-->>> >-->>> >-->>>>-->Woah! I got scared out of my pants tonight and need your best ideas >-->>>>-->guys.... >-->>>>-->Coming home very late tonight for the 2nd night in a row, and was >-->>>>-->cruising 60+ on the main road toward home, curves left and right here >-->>>>-->and there, it isn't like I was up on two wheels or anything near it, >-->>>>-->really not going all THAT fast, but get this....as I got into this >-->>>>long >-->>>>-->left-hand sweeper, I heard this odd noise,... diesel sound?... wait, I >-->>>>-->know what that is, THAT's KNOCKING!!!! I looked down and the oil >-->>>>-->pressure as ZIP! OMG! >-->>>>-->I backed off immediately and it cruised down to under 40 as I came out >-->>>>-->of the curve and the pressure went back up. So I maintained the >-->>>>slower >-->>>>-->speed and of course the noise abated as soon as the pressure returned. >-->>>>-->Then as a couple of miles went by, and my mind was racing and the >-->>>>-->adrenalin started to fade, I couldn't recall if it was a left or right >-->>>>-->that made it happen, so I tried to induce this problem again (BRIEFLY) >-->>>>-->just to be sure what was happening, and sure enough on a LEFT hand >-->>>>-->curve, the oil pressure can be easily made to drop to near 0, on a >-->>>>RIGHT >-->>>>-->hand curve, all seems well. >-->>>>--> >-->>>>-->Now this has been bothering me, but I hadn't yet mentioned it. The >-->>>>oil >-->>>>-->pressure seems low on this pup. >-->>>>-->But I'm sure I've read on the list here that these 360's run low >-->>>>numbers >-->>>>-->for oil pressure, so I haven't been terribly concerned. But I am now. >-->>>>-->I was thinking about replacing the oil pressure switch anyway. I had >-->>>>to >-->>>>-->swap in the one out of my old engine since the wiring harness >-->>>>connector >-->>>>-->for the 88 is different from the AMC version. But since I got it all >-->>>>up >-->>>>-->and running, I have noticed this: >-->>>>--> >-->>>>-->Stone Cold 50-60 on the gauge but drops from that rapidly as it >-->>>>warms up. >-->>>>-->Fully warmed up at 45-55mph, about 25-30 on the gauge. >-->>>>-->Fully warmed up at 30-40mph, about 20 on the gauge. >-->>>>-->At idle warm, about 10-15 on the gauge. >-->>>>--> >-->>>>-->But like I said, I haven't put much stock in these numbers as I wasn't >-->>>>-->really sure the sender was at all accurate. But now I don't think so >-->>>>-->much that the sender is bad. It may indeed be reporting the correct >-->>>>-->conditions. Lower-than-wanted oil pressures. >-->>>>--> >-->>>>-->It is not low on oil. >-->>>>-->Hasn't used a drop of oil of course, and still only VERY minor seeps. >-->>>>-->Only drips are out of that pressure relief port plug -I think it is- >-->>>>by >-->>>>-->the oil filter. Just a few drops a day. >-->>>>-->Running Valvoline Full Synthetic 5W30 or 10W30 I think it was.... >-->>>>--> >-->>>>-->What in the world is going on here guys? Any ideas? >-->>>>-->Even if the oil pickup tube is on the left side of the pan I would >-->>>>think >-->>>>-->there would be PLENTY of oil in the pan to keep it from sucking >-->>>>dry.... >-->>>>-->I'm confused. But I haven't had an oil pan off of a 360 so I don't >-->>>>know. >-->>>>--> >-->>>>-->All kinds of things in my mind now. Wondering if there is a "high >-->>>>-->volume" pump in there and maybe I'm pumping the pan close to dry? Do >-->>>>I >-->>>>-->have the wrong oil? All kinds of things in my mind.... but I'm scared >-->>>>-->now to even start it.... and even more afraid to let my WIFE know >-->>>>there >-->>>>-->might be a problem ...LOL...wimper, wimper... >-->>>>-->Thanks for any feedback. >-->>>>--> a very concerned JeepNut >-->>>>--> >-->>>>--> >-->>>>-->-- >-->>>>-->"Microsoft Certified Professionals are to the computing >-->>>>-->industry what McDonalds Certified Food Specialists are to >-->>>>-->gourmet restaurants." -Michael Bacarella 00Mar15 >-->>>>-->---------------------------------------------------------- >-->>>>-->'87 Street Comanche #24/100 >-->>>>-->'88 Grand Wagoneer ...and they say there's only one... >-->>>>-->'92 Cherokee Laredo >-->>>>-->---------------------------------------------------------- >-->>>>-->Registered Linux user #287453 >-->>>>--> >-->>>> >-->>> >-->>> ---- >-->>> >-->>>------------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->>> ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** >-->>> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. >-->>>------------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->>> >-->>> >-->>> >-->> >-->> >-->> -- >-->> "Microsoft Certified Professionals are to the computing >-->> industry what McDonalds Certified Food Specialists are to >-->> gourmet restaurants." -Michael Bacarella 00Mar15 >-->> ---------------------------------------------------------- >-->> '87 Street Comanche #24/100 >-->> '88 Grand Wagoneer ...and they say there's only one... >-->> '92 Cherokee Laredo >-->> ---------------------------------------------------------- >-->> Registered Linux user #287453 >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #2256 **************************