From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Tue Sep 28 20:01:36 2004 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Wednesday, September 29 2004 Volume 01 : Number 2262 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: 85 PW knocking question Re: fsj: 85 PW knocking question fsj: Re: 67 Wagoneer Questions RE: fsj: pinging GW followup Re: fsj: pinging GW followup Re: fsj: pinging GW followup Re: fsj: pinging GW followup fsj: SNORT4x4 forum - 1970 Wagoneer with Buick 350 fsj: carb spacer Re: fsj: pinging GW followup FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 15:03:08 CDT From: Dan Black Subject: fsj: 85 PW knocking question Sent the description to a friend, and here are his thoughts. Note that some of it is stuff John also mentioned as possibilities. But the first one is interesting. =============================================================================== A couple of things jump to mind 1) underhood temps could be skyrocketing causing the ignition module to act differently. Obviously if the cooling system is up to par, it won't affect the gauge at all because that's only engine temp, not underhood temp. 2) a bad powervalve or other vacuum operated orifice on the carb ... those 2150's have some weird emissions stuff that could be acting up under higher temps. Even an EGR valve could stick with higher underhood temps ... Either way it seems it might be related to the under hood temps ... and of course it could be a coincidence too, maybe he doesn't drive those long distances in cooler weather, so it's just something that popped up on the longer pull ? Things like that get tricky to diagnose. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Nap, nap, nap, all day long; Nap, nap, nap, while I sing this song. Gotta take a nap, gonna sleep a lot; Don't sit on the couch, cuz that's my spot! - -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 13:05:20 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: 85 PW knocking question yes, thanx! the coil could even be an issue... I forgot about the ignition issues too... but for the most part a slight pinging is usually vacuum/timing related, these beasts are quite sensitive in that area... I remember dealing with this with Old Blue a lot. On the 4.0L there is an anti-knock sensor built in to the the system, every now and then they go out and pinging occurs there too... john On Mon, 27 Sep 2004, Dan Black wrote: >-->Sent the description to a friend, and here are his thoughts. Note that >-->some of it is stuff John also mentioned as possibilities. But the first >-->one is interesting. >--> >-->=============================================================================== >--> >-->A couple of things jump to mind >--> >-->1) underhood temps could be skyrocketing causing the ignition module >-->to act differently. Obviously if the cooling system is up to par, it >-->won't affect the gauge at all because that's only engine temp, not >-->underhood temp. >--> >-->2) a bad powervalve or other vacuum operated orifice on the carb ... >-->those 2150's have some weird emissions stuff that could be acting up >-->under higher temps. Even an EGR valve could stick with higher >-->underhood temps ... >--> >-->Either way it seems it might be related to the under hood temps ... and >-->of course it could be a coincidence too, maybe he doesn't drive those >-->long distances in cooler weather, so it's just something that popped up >-->on the longer pull ? Things like that get tricky to diagnose. >--> >-->------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >--> Nap, nap, nap, all day long; >--> Nap, nap, nap, while I sing this song. >--> Gotta take a nap, gonna sleep a lot; >--> Don't sit on the couch, cuz that's my spot! >-->-------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 13:29:43 -0700 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: fsj: Re: 67 Wagoneer Questions A: I'll have to check around to see if I can find the link. From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Re: 67 Wagoneer Questions so a 235/75r15 should be 28.8 inches when new? is there a source on line that mandates the official size for each tire size? that would be handy to have... I thought it varied a bit from mfr to mfr... john On Mon, 27 Sep 2004, Jim Blair wrote: >-->They are 28.8" when new. That was DOT requirement that all sizes be >matched, >-->unlike when numbered or lettered sizes were the norm. They were allowed >to >-->round up or down back then, and a tire from the beginning of a btach >could >-->be up to 1" different than one from the end of the batch! (remember >-->Firestone 500s? They were caused by some of the other bigger companies >-->manipulating the rubber market so that they got poor quality rubber) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 13:33:43 -0700 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: RE: fsj: pinging GW followup A: To the best of my knowledge, NAPA doesn't carry any of the gimmick plugs (AC, Autolite, Bosch Champion, NGK and maybe one or 2 others) but I had good luck with the Splitfires when I also used their wires (if you read their website or pamphlet, it says to use their wires or at least good quality ones) That was what perked my 4 cyl Comanche enough that at 200,000 miles I made the trip to Ouray, CO in it with 6,000lbs gross weight! I second the NGKs for wide heat range ability, but prefer Autolites in my 304. From: john Subject: RE: fsj: pinging GW followup On Mon, 27 Sep 2004, Watry, Andrew (LNG-SFR) wrote: >-->I have the owner's manual and a Chilton's manual for standard plugs, but >do >-->you have a recommendation for a cooler one that works well? no info... check with NAPA... they'll have info on your options. Stay away from gimick plugs, forked tongue, +4, splitwires, etc... a good mechanic friend recommends NGK. john ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 13:26:53 -0700 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: Re: fsj: pinging GW followup A: Try going 1 heat range colder on your plugs. (or not running Bosch because they are quite narrow band. Someone put a set in an '00 Tahoe and they caused all sorts of running troubles!) From: "Watry, Andrew (LNG-SFR)" Subject: fsj: pinging GW followup My GW does not appear to be overheating at all. It has a brand new radiator, good hoses, new temp sending unit, etc., though I don't know the condition of the WP and thermostat, or what might be in the block. 50/50 of antifreeze and water. As I mentioned, it did pass its CA smog check with very low numbers (better than my wife's 97 BMW), so I'd assume the EGR, air pump, etc., are all working OK. It's all intact and hooked up. No exhaust leaks or intake leaks that I can hear, and it idles smoothly and starts first turn every time. But I'll tighten everything up, check the plugs, and change the vacuum lines, which are intact but pretty sad looking. Can you richen the mixture much, or at all? Probably not on the main circuit without changing jets, but I wonder if the richening the idle circuit a bit would help? Maybe it's got a stop on the screw? Only til the next smog check though. Plus I'd be getting even worse mileage... When the pinging came on in hot weather, it was nasty sounding. Is it likely to be destructive pretty quickly, or has the GW probably been pinging for years under previous owners' ignorance? I've only owned it a couple months, and the last guy used it for towing. Thanks all Andrew Watry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 21:44:56 -0400 From: "Neal Hoover" Subject: Re: fsj: pinging GW followup and if it is vapor lock, another fix would be to install a phenolic TB spacer plate under the carb. it keeps the heat from being transfered directly to the carb and boiling the gas. plus, it might give you a slight performance gain as well. ;) Neal A. Hoover Project '76 J-10 Project '96 XJ - ----- Original Message ----- From: "john" To: "Watry, Andrew (LNG-SFR)" Cc: "full size jeep list" Sent: Monday, September 27, 2004 3:34 PM Subject: RE: fsj: pinging GW followup > On Mon, 27 Sep 2004, Watry, Andrew (LNG-SFR) wrote: > > >-->thanks very much. > > no problem, good luck... > > oh, a couple other tricks... there were some issues > with vapor lock that might help reduce ping as well, > rerouting the coolant lines away from the carb/manifold, > heater hose mainly... > > other options might be a slightly cooler tstat, > synthetic oil, cooler spark plug range, retarded timing... > > and of course the ultimate solution... swap in a modern > fuel injection engine... ;) > > john ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 23:15:26 EDT From: Smokey99908-at-aol.com Subject: Re: fsj: pinging GW followup and if it is vapor lock, another fix would be to install a phenolic TB spacer plate under the carb. it keeps the heat from being transfered directly to the carb and boiling the gas. plus, it might give you a slight performance gain as well. ;) Thanks Neal, any more info on this spacer? Is phenolic the material? different thicknesses? best brands or is it just generic? thanks, bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 22:10:38 -0700 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: fsj: SNORT4x4 forum - 1970 Wagoneer with Buick 350 http://www.snort4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=115067 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 09:54:30 -0400 From: "Watry, Andrew (LNG-SFR)" Subject: fsj: carb spacer BJ's shows a stock OEM style carb insulator plate for 79-91 GWs with 360: http://www.bjsoffroad.com/cartgenie/prodInfo.asp?pid=425&cid=3 Is this the same or similar to the phenolic spacer discussed? Presumably an unmodified 360 2BBL would still have its original plate? Andrew Watry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 20:53:17 -0400 From: "Neal Hoover" Subject: Re: fsj: pinging GW followup um, i wish i had it on me. i catually got mine from a local race shop. it's made to fit under my 4bbl holley. i'm sure other applications exist for the edelbrock carbs, etc. not sure about a stock carb, tho. yes, phenolic is the material. kinda like a really hard plastic. i think mine is a Moroso for $30. i can try to find out more info if you like. Neal A. Hoover Project '76 J-10 Project '96 XJ - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; ; Cc: Sent: Monday, September 27, 2004 11:15 PM Subject: Re: fsj: pinging GW followup and if it is vapor lock, another fix would be to install a phenolic TB spacer plate under the carb. it keeps the heat from being transfered directly to the carb and boiling the gas. plus, it might give you a slight performance gain as well. ;) Thanks Neal, any more info on this spacer? Is phenolic the material? different thicknesses? best brands or is it just generic? thanks, bob ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #2262 **************************