From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Tue Oct 5 21:54:44 2004 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Wednesday, October 6 2004 Volume 01 : Number 2268 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: Re: '85 Cherokee fsj: Re: xj: Re: '85 Cherokee fsj: was a little busy today fsj: Tcase clocking ring (to put a NP case behind an AW4) fsj: Limited slip fsj: eBay item 7925529180 (Ends Oct-07-04 12:45:27 PDT) - Jeep Wagoneer NP208 Transfer case Fits Dana 300 fsj: Re: AMC 327 to 360? Re: fsj: Re: AMC 327 to 360? Re: fsj: Re: AMC 327 to 360? Re: fsj: Re: AMC 327 to 360? Re: fsj: Re: AMC 327 to 360? fsj: Re: Tcase clocking ring (to put a NP case behind an AW4) Re: fsj: Re: AMC 327 to 360? Re: fsj: Re: AMC 327 to 360? FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 16:52:42 -0700 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: fsj: Re: '85 Cherokee A: At least I can wash this green off! LOL! I had a short lazy day today. I undid the front clip from the '80 Cherokee and broke my T45 socket so I couldn't finish (that's the door hinge bolts). I did get the unmolested 6 cyl underhood wiring harness out (pre computer BBD system with about 20 wires for everything under the hood including headlights!) and started taking out the fuel tank so I could torch the rear spring hangers off (rear frame is super rotten!) but that was as far as my lazy butt could go today (hope the weather holds up for tomorrow. Wife wants to do stuff today, so I packed it in early since I haven't seen her for almost a week) I found out the brakes work in the '85 still (I "drove" it into my backyard with the rest of the pack) I'm tempted to pull the 4 cyl (it's going into my son's Comanche) and replace it with something else (now I wish I hadn't sold the '80 Malibu wagon for only $100!) (I sent John a pic of my '85 Cherokee I got last night) nice green... you always find such lovely items... :) john On Mon, 4 Oct 2004, Jim Blair wrote: >--> >--> here's a pic of the back (no front fenders) ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 16:55:12 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: xj: Re: '85 Cherokee On Mon, 4 Oct 2004, Jim Blair wrote: >-->A: At least I can wash this green off! LOL! I had a short lazy day today. I >-->undid the front clip from the '80 Cherokee and broke my T45 socket so I >-->couldn't finish (that's the door hinge bolts). I did get the unmolested 6 >-->cyl underhood wiring harness out (pre computer BBD system with about 20 >-->wires for everything under the hood including headlights!) and started >-->taking out the fuel tank so I could torch the rear spring hangers off (rear >-->frame is super rotten!) but that was as far as my lazy butt could go today >-->(hope the weather holds up for tomorrow. Wife wants to do stuff today, so I >-->packed it in early since I haven't seen her for almost a week) >--> I found out the brakes work in the '85 still (I "drove" it into my >-->backyard with the rest of the pack) I'm tempted to pull the 4 cyl (it's >-->going into my son's Comanche) and replace it with something else (now I wish >-->I hadn't sold the '80 Malibu wagon for only $100!) >--> >--> >-->(I sent John a pic of my '85 Cherokee I got last night) >-->nice green... you always find such lovely items... :) http://www.wagoneers.com/tmp/DSC01806.JPG >--> >-->john >--> >-->On Mon, 4 Oct 2004, Jim Blair wrote: >--> >-->>--> >-->>--> here's a pic of the back (no front fenders) >--> >--> ---- >--> >-->------------------------------------------------------------------------- >--> ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** >--> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. >-->------------------------------------------------------------------------- >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 18:15:54 -0700 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: fsj: was a little busy today I was kind of lazy when I got up (today is my saturday) but I squeezed in a couple hours in the nice weather on dismantling the '80 Cherokee 2dr NT. Front clip is ready to remove (only major rust is the rad saddle below the battery) I now have a 6 cyl underhood wiring harness to sell (pre-computerized BBD carb) and will have the rest out eventually. It's so nice to see unchopped wires! Only the rad saddle bolts and front bumper bolts left on the front, then I will lift the dead 258 (rod out the bottom) and 727/NP208, and cut the frame off at the firewall and roll the body back. The gas tank then comes out so I can cut the rear springs loose (I think this rig originally came from Eastern Canada due to the extreme frame rust in the back) and I'll buck up the rest to toss it. (A piece of the roof will become my new floor panels in my J4000) Aside from the roof rack and glass, there isn't much else good on this. Rear window was still in working order AFAIK. Front axle, springs and doors are spoken for. Motor parts will be for sale (the 258 had PS and GM alt on it) and the 727 trans looks and smells good. (I need a 4x4 output shaft for my son's Mopar conversion) I may even end up selling the NP208, since I have to put a NP242 into the Comanche for my wife. (I need to do a drill and tap SYE on it due to doing a SOA on the Comanche rear axle soon) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 18:50:07 -0700 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: fsj: Tcase clocking ring (to put a NP case behind an AW4) A: I have NOT done this yet, but this clocking ring SHOULD work to bolt an AW4 23 spline to an '80 to '91 FSJ transfercase. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7924979637 &category=33728&sspagename=WDVW ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 22:04:39 EDT From: Moontanman-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: Limited slip Many years ago I was looking for a positive traction differential for my jeep that would work with quadra-tarc. If i remember correctly there was one called dual drive that would work with quadra trac. it was advertised as a true four wheel drive and that it supplied power to the wheel that was moving the slowest instead of the wheel that was moving the fastest like a regular differential. the add showed a jeep with the wheels from one side on a roller ramp and the other side touching the pavement and the jeep moving forward like all four wheels were touching. It had no clutches wand was all gears. Does anyone remember this type of differential and what it is called? Another question, I see several companies that sell replacement bodies for 4x4s. most of them look like humvees but none of them will fit a 1979 Cherokee chassis does anyone make one to fit a Cherokee? Moon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 18:53:43 -0700 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: fsj: eBay item 7925529180 (Ends Oct-07-04 12:45:27 PDT) - Jeep Wagoneer NP208 Transfer case Fits Dana 300 Anyone need an NP208J? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7925529180&from MakeTrack=true ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 11:11:54 EDT From: Brazzadog-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: Re: AMC 327 to 360? I've been out of town for 4 days so by now you've probably read everyones replies about all the issues involved in a swap to a 360. Let me provide a viewpoint on the other side of the issue. You say that fixing the 327 is going to be difficult and expensive. Seems like you posted something about a water pump a while back. Swapping in a 360 will not be cheap or easy. I'd be shocked if you saved time or money that way. The unfortunate fact is that all of these rigs require expensive, time consuming maintenance until you've virtually rebuilt the entire vehicle. Maybe at that point you'll get a couple of years of trouble free service, but I doubt it. At least I haven't, so far. So, the tie goes to the 327 since you've already got it. The next consideration is that we're talking about a Super Wagoneer. Other than a '91 Final Edition Grand Wagoneer, the Super Wagoneer is the only other FSJ that may ever have value as a collector's item. Every time you modify it you are losing potential value to yourself and the FSJ world. Score one for the 327. I've been out of touch with 327 issues for a couple of years, but last I knew parts were not unobtanium, you just have to get hooked up with the right people. I'd start by getting on the AMC lists and finding out everything they can tell you. You have to become your own expert when working on these Kaiser-era rigs, and the best info you'll find on your motor will probably not be found on a FSJ list. You need us for other things, but most of us don't know much about the 327. Start with this link and maybe Jim or John can hook you up with some better ones. This site has great links and AMC Club info. _http://www.oldcarparts.com/_ (http://www.oldcarparts.com/) Ben Williams '71 Wagoneer In a message dated 10/4/2004 11:48:28 AM Pacific Standard Time, owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net writes: > >From: "Jim Rogers" _jimlrogers-at-wavecable.com_ (mailto:jimlrogers-at-wavecable.com) (snip) > >I have a 67 Super Wagoneer with the original AMC 327 / TH400. Given >that it is difficult and expensive to find rebuild parts for this motor >I was thinking of swapping in a 360. Some of the questions I have are: > >Will the 360 bolt up to the same TH400? > >Will the motor mounts have to be changed? > >What other issues may arise? > >If this is an easy swap is there someone out there willing to trade >their 360 for my extra TH400 with transfer case? > >I will be out of town till Wednesday night so won't be around to answer >questions till then. > >Thanks for your help. > >Jim Rogers >Southworth, WA ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 09:41:39 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Re: AMC 327 to 360? Ben, You are RIGHT on the money. The AMC 360 will become as hard to find parts for as any other old engine. Might as well stay with the 327 as it is a fine engine, perhaps better than the 360 in many regards. The limitations on the 327 are weight and restricted air flow because of the head design, but if you don't modify it, it's fine. If you have a complete SuperWagoneer it would be a good idea to keep it original and stock. john On Tue, 5 Oct 2004 Brazzadog-at-aol.com wrote: >-->I've been out of town for 4 days so by now you've probably read everyones >-->replies about all the issues involved in a swap to a 360. Let me provide a >-->viewpoint on the other side of the issue. You say that fixing the 327 is going >-->to be difficult and expensive. Seems like you posted something about a water >-->pump a while back. Swapping in a 360 will not be cheap or easy. I'd be >-->shocked if you saved time or money that way. The unfortunate fact is that all >-->of these rigs require expensive, time consuming maintenance until you've >-->virtually rebuilt the entire vehicle. Maybe at that point you'll get a couple of >-->years of trouble free service, but I doubt it. At least I haven't, so far. >-->So, the tie goes to the 327 since you've already got it. >--> >-->The next consideration is that we're talking about a Super Wagoneer. Other >-->than a '91 Final Edition Grand Wagoneer, the Super Wagoneer is the only other >-->FSJ that may ever have value as a collector's item. Every time you modify >-->it you are losing potential value to yourself and the FSJ world. Score one >-->for the 327. >--> >-->I've been out of touch with 327 issues for a couple of years, but last I >-->knew parts were not unobtanium, you just have to get hooked up with the right >-->people. I'd start by getting on the AMC lists and finding out everything they >-->can tell you. You have to become your own expert when working on these >-->Kaiser-era rigs, and the best info you'll find on your motor will probably not be >-->found on a FSJ list. You need us for other things, but most of us don't know >-->much about the 327. Start with this link and maybe Jim or John can hook you >-->up with some better ones. This site has great links and AMC Club info. >--> >-->_http://www.oldcarparts.com/_ (http://www.oldcarparts.com/) >--> >--> >-->Ben Williams >-->'71 Wagoneer >--> >-->In a message dated 10/4/2004 11:48:28 AM Pacific Standard Time, >-->owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net writes: >-->> >-->>From: "Jim Rogers" _jimlrogers-at-wavecable.com_ >-->(mailto:jimlrogers-at-wavecable.com) >-->(snip) >-->> >-->>I have a 67 Super Wagoneer with the original AMC 327 / TH400. Given >-->>that it is difficult and expensive to find rebuild parts for this motor >-->>I was thinking of swapping in a 360. Some of the questions I have are: >-->> >-->>Will the 360 bolt up to the same TH400? >-->> >-->>Will the motor mounts have to be changed? >-->> >-->>What other issues may arise? >-->> >-->>If this is an easy swap is there someone out there willing to trade >-->>their 360 for my extra TH400 with transfer case? >-->> >-->>I will be out of town till Wednesday night so won't be around to answer >-->>questions till then. >-->> >-->>Thanks for your help. >-->> >-->>Jim Rogers >-->>Southworth, WA >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 14:26:32 EDT From: Brazzadog-at-aol.com Subject: Re: fsj: Re: AMC 327 to 360? LOL. I can't remember the last time that happened! : ) Ben In a message dated 10/5/2004 9:46:50 AM Pacific Standard Time, john-at-wagoneers.com writes: Ben, You are RIGHT on the money. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 11:33:09 -0700 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: Re: fsj: Re: AMC 327 to 360? A: The big problem is 327 parts are hard to get now and 360 is still around (with more aftermarket stuff coming out all the time since they have played out Mopar, Ford and Chev motors) Ben, You are RIGHT on the money. The AMC 360 will become as hard to find parts for as any other old engine. Might as well stay with the 327 as it is a fine engine, perhaps better than the 360 in many regards. The limitations on the 327 are weight and restricted air flow because of the head design, but if you don't modify it, it's fine. If you have a complete SuperWagoneer it would be a good idea to keep it original and stock. john On Tue, 5 Oct 2004 Brazzadog-at-aol.com wrote: >-->I've been out of town for 4 days so by now you've probably read >everyones >-->replies about all the issues involved in a swap to a 360. Let me >provide a >-->viewpoint on the other side of the issue. You say that fixing the 327 >is going >-->to be difficult and expensive. Seems like you posted something about a >water >-->pump a while back. Swapping in a 360 will not be cheap or easy. I'd >be >-->shocked if you saved time or money that way. The unfortunate fact is >that all >-->of these rigs require expensive, time consuming maintenance until >you've >-->virtually rebuilt the entire vehicle. Maybe at that point you'll get a >couple of >-->years of trouble free service, but I doubt it. At least I haven't, so >far. >-->So, the tie goes to the 327 since you've already got it. >--> >-->The next consideration is that we're talking about a Super Wagoneer. >Other >-->than a '91 Final Edition Grand Wagoneer, the Super Wagoneer is the only >other >-->FSJ that may ever have value as a collector's item. Every time you >modify >-->it you are losing potential value to yourself and the FSJ world. Score >one >-->for the 327. >--> >-->I've been out of touch with 327 issues for a couple of years, but last I >-->knew parts were not unobtanium, you just have to get hooked up with the >right >-->people. I'd start by getting on the AMC lists and finding out >everything they >-->can tell you. You have to become your own expert when working on these >-->Kaiser-era rigs, and the best info you'll find on your motor will >probably not be >-->found on a FSJ list. You need us for other things, but most of us >don't know >-->much about the 327. Start with this link and maybe Jim or John can >hook you >-->up with some better ones. This site has great links and AMC Club info. >--> >-->_http://www.oldcarparts.com/_ (http://www.oldcarparts.com/) >--> >--> >-->Ben Williams >-->'71 Wagoneer >--> >-->In a message dated 10/4/2004 11:48:28 AM Pacific Standard Time, >-->owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net writes: >-->> >-->>From: "Jim Rogers" _jimlrogers-at-wavecable.com_ >-->(mailto:jimlrogers-at-wavecable.com) >-->(snip) >-->> >-->>I have a 67 Super Wagoneer with the original AMC 327 / TH400. Given >-->>that it is difficult and expensive to find rebuild parts for this >motor >-->>I was thinking of swapping in a 360. Some of the questions I have >are: >-->> >-->>Will the 360 bolt up to the same TH400? >-->> >-->>Will the motor mounts have to be changed? >-->> >-->>What other issues may arise? >-->> >-->>If this is an easy swap is there someone out there willing to trade >-->>their 360 for my extra TH400 with transfer case? >-->> >-->>I will be out of town till Wednesday night so won't be around to >answer >-->>questions till then. >-->> >-->>Thanks for your help. >-->> >-->>Jim Rogers >-->>Southworth, WA >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 14:50:02 EDT From: Brazzadog-at-aol.com Subject: Re: fsj: Re: AMC 327 to 360? You may be right, but I almost always have to order AMC engine parts. Nobody around here keeps much of anything in stock. Even oil filters are hard to find. Ben In a message dated 10/5/2004 11:42:42 AM Pacific Standard Time, carnuck1-at-msn.com writes: A: The big problem is 327 parts are hard to get now and 360 is still around (with more aftermarket stuff coming out all the time since they have played out Mopar, Ford and Chev motors) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 11:52:34 -0700 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: fsj: Re: Tcase clocking ring (to put a NP case behind an AW4) I couldn't recall how much it was, but did know it was less than an inch. Some of the rings out there were almost 1" thick and I didn't read how much this one was. Hi Jim, I would not hold my breath that this ring would work as an adapter. There are other clearance issues between the NP cases and the AW4 trans. I can't remember exactly what at the moment, but I seem to recall about an inch or three quarters of an inch space needed between the two. Three eights isn't going to do it. That is why we had to have ours custom made. This ring on ebay is just for rotating the t-case that you already have in use. Curtis Message: 2 Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 18:50:07 -0700 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: Tcase clocking ring (to put a NP case behind an AW4) A: I have NOT done this yet, but this clocking ring SHOULD work to bolt an AW4 23 spline to an '80 to '91 FSJ transfercase. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7924979637&category=33728&sspagename=WDVW [This message contained attachments] ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________________ Sent by ePrompter, the premier email notification software. Free download at http://www.ePrompter.com. _________________________________________________________________ Get ready for school! Find articles, homework help and more in the Back to School Guide! http://special.msn.com/network/04backtoschool.armx ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 12:22:38 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Re: AMC 327 to 360? On Tue, 5 Oct 2004 Brazzadog-at-aol.com wrote: >-->LOL. I can't remember the last time that happened! : ) >-->Ben must be the change to my diet... instead of a full cup of coffee, that usually "hits" around Mountlake Terrace and makes for a painful commute into downtown Seattle... I've switched to using half the water, but keep the grounds the same... :) at least until I can replace my espresso machine... :) latte, john ...besides, what you said makes a lot of sense on two counts: 1) why dump one set of problems for another and 2) keep the superwag stock. :) If it's not a superwag, then I'd go with a different engine completely... I like the idea of fuel injection because of the reliability, longevity and economy. That's why I'm going with a 4.0L in Superdawg. john >-->In a message dated 10/5/2004 9:46:50 AM Pacific Standard Time, >-->john-at-wagoneers.com writes: >-->Ben, >-->You are RIGHT on the money. ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 22:19:17 EDT From: Brazzadog-at-aol.com Subject: Re: fsj: Re: AMC 327 to 360? Hey! That's a good idea! Budget espresso. Too bad I don't drink coffee. Ben In a message dated 10/5/2004 12:28:27 PM Pacific Standard Time, john-at-wagoneers.com writes: >must be the change to my diet... instead of a full cup of coffee, >that usually "hits" around Mountlake Terrace and makes for >a painful commute into downtown Seattle... I've switched to >using half the water, but keep the grounds the same... :) > >at least until I can replace my espresso machine... :) ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #2268 **************************