From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Sun Oct 24 19:36:10 2004 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Sunday, October 24 2004 Volume 01 : Number 2283 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: Re: xj: xfer case rebuild fsj: Re: the new Grand Cherokee... the Toured, and a Passat fsj: a Diesel is coming, a Diesel... fsj: Re: xj: Re: a Diesel is coming, a Diesel... fsj: FSJ, XJ and MJ parts fsj: Re: [db] eBay listing fsj: Re: [db] eBay listing fsj: What to take? FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 10:48:19 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: xj: xfer case rebuild as long as the chain isn't stretched and no teeth are missing it sounds like it's fine. remember to refill with ATF. are you taking pictures? would be nice to have a write up on how to get the case apart and show the clips/bolts, etc. I've got the factory shop manual for a couple of these cases and they don't provide much insight at all... lots of talk about special tools. I'd love to put your pictures/writeup on wagoneers.com so others could learn from your experience. I've got some data on line at: http://www.wagoneers.com/JEEPS/tech/TRANSFER-CASES/ http://www.wagoneers.com/JEEPS/tech/TRANSFER-CASES/NP231/np231-diagram.jpg http://www.wagoneers.com/JEEPS/tech/TRANSFER-CASES/NP231/ http://www.wagoneers.com/XJ/tech/NP242swap/ the xfr case directory in the Jeep directory has this info: 1988-xj-Selectrac-info.jpg 25-Feb-2001 21:55 68k Dana20.jpg 16-Jul-2000 23:36 494k NP207.jpg 16-Jul-2000 23:16 258k NP208/ 18-Jul-2000 23:50 - NP228.jpg 16-Jul-2000 23:20 421k NP229/ 16-Jul-2000 23:21 - NP231/ 16-Jul-2000 23:48 - NP242/ 29-Nov-2003 23:12 - Quadra-Trac.jpg 16-Jul-2000 23:32 410k README 16-Jun-2003 15:42 8k xfr-case.txt later, john On Sat, 23 Oct 2004, Doug Wright wrote: >-->I've currently got my transfer case opened up to do a SYE installation >-->(basically just an output shaft swap), and I was wondering if there was >-->anything I should check or replace while I have it apart. It's a NP231 out >-->of an 88XJ 4.0L with an AX-15 transmission. I believe it is the original >-->case, but it was opened up in '98 to swap the input gear. >--> >-->I've got the Haynes and FSM, but neither was any help in this area, other >-->than showing the exploded view of the t-case. The insides look pretty >-->clean, and there weren't any metal bits floating around in there, other >-->than a few very fine pieces on the magnet. The chain looks good, but I'm >-->not sure how to check it for wear or stretch (it may be the original chain). >--> >-->Thanks, >-->Doug >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 11:11:53 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: the new Grand Cherokee... the Toured, and a Passat On Fri, 22 Oct 2004, Bear wrote: >-->What do you think about the rubican? http://www.jeep.com/wrangler/models/rubicon.html cool.... Dana 44's fore & aft... limited/locking axles, 4wd discs... coils are fine, makes it somewhat easier to lift... 4.0L, sweetest motor ever put in a Jeep. I'd say two thumbs up. This looks like a winner. Real axles, a solid motor, and a legendary body style. I've driven some of the newer Wranglers, but I haven't been a fan of bob tails before, but this does seem like a good Jeep, and far better than the KJ or the WK(?) or whatever they're calling the Dodgized(bast....zed) version of the Grand Cherokee... However, for the bucks, I'd say start out with the SE and build it yourself. Although I don't think you can add the Dana 44 axles... :( http://www-5.jeep.com/vehsuite/VehicleCompare.jsp Upgrade to the 4.0L and buy your own lockers... compare the details of what the Rubicon offers and check aftermarket components. Even buying used axles and doing the swap might cost less than buying the "special"... The Rubicon lists at $28k, and for that you could buy a nice XJ and spend some money on upgrading it, or even a WJ, although a WJ wouldn't be as good offroad as the XJ. XJ's can be setup to perform better than a stock TJ with more comfort and convenience. It's been said many times before, Jeeps are built, not bought... maybe it's because real Jeepers can't afford to buy a brand spankin' new Jeep and trash it... so we buy what we can afford, build it to do what we want, THEN trash it. :) Either way, getting a 4.0L I-6 in anything with a Jeep badge is a good move. Unfortunately the wizards at DC have opted to move to the pathetic 3.7L V6, I drove one in a KJ and found it quite anemic. The 4.0L I-6 in my '99 WJ is quite acceptable. The 3.7V6 is a derivative of the 4.7L V8, which is one of the sweetest V8's I've ever owned, worked on or driven. If I had the bucks and wasn't concerned about fuel economy I'd be dropping a WJ driveline into my '83 J10 instead of a '96 XJ 4.0L driveline. :) I'll take a closer look at the TJs. Might even test drive one... like I said, never had a bobtail... tried to look at one that had a Diesel conversion, but never met up with the guy... If I could find one with a Diesel that had the creature comforts I'd get it... :) let me know if you get one of these things! :) john >-->On 10/22/04 12:04 AM, "john" wrote: >--> >-->> Got my invite in the mail to see the new Grand Cherokee, so I made >-->Thank you for your time and consideration... >--> >--> >-->Bear >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 12:32:29 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: a Diesel is coming, a Diesel... While the Liberty is butt ugly and has a few other oddities and inconveniences, two things lean in it's favor: it's a Jeep and it's soon to have a Diesel. A Common-Rail Diesel... 2.8L Turbo Diesel... :) Found this blurb: "Jeep Liberty will be available with a 2.8-liter common rail diesel (CRD) engine for the first time in the United States and Canada. The 2.8-liter CRD is rated at an estimated 160 horsepower (120 kW) at 3800 rpm and with 295 lb.-ft. (400 N.m) at 1800 rpm, providing class-leading torque and towing capability. Diesel engines offer another option for increased torque, towing and range, while improving fuel economy an average of 25 percent and reducing CO2 emissions by an average of 20 percent. The diesel engine will be available on both Sport and Limited models." from: http://www.wforum.com/waf/posts/42284.shtml Also, when I test drove a KJ I found it rode nicer than the WJ and was quieter... although it had a softer handling feel to it than the XJ or the WJ. No solid front axle, but then again the new GC doesn't either... :( If that 2.8L V6 CRD can tow my trailer* gets at least 28mpg in town, comes with an Automatic and decent features... I could see getting rid of my '91 300d, my '83 GMC Jimmy, a few of my "older" FSJs, and even my '99 WJ... although that will be a hard one since it's not really "mine". ;) * (trailer: 1975 J10 long bed box equipped with dual hydraulic cylinders as a dump bed that weighs 1,990 empty... the trailer has a Model 20 rear axle that's been gutted and equipped with hydraulic surge DISC brakes http://www.wagoneers.com/FSJ/J10-trailer/ http://www.wagoneers.com/fotos/2004/a-day-in-September/trailer-in-use-1.jpg http://www.wagoneers.com/fotos/2004/a-day-in-September/trailer-xj-1.jpg http://www.wagoneers.com/fotos/2004/a-day-in-September/xj-trailer-loaded-at-home.jpg http://www.wagoneers.com/fotos/2004/a-day-in-September/compost-dump.jpg http://www.wagoneers.com/fotos/2004/a-day-in-September/loaded-with-gravel.jpg http://www.wagoneers.com/fotos/2004/a-day-in-September/unloading-trees.jpg http://www.wagoneers.com/fotos/2004/a-day-in-September/washing-trailer-4sep04.jpg) I've never had a new vehicle... love Diesels and love Jeeps. I think the pricing on this vehicle will be a bit more realistic than the Toureg. If it's under $30k and I can figure a way of swinging the payments... hmmm, wait, if I teach part time I've got it covered... ;) sure, lets take a second job for a new jeep... why not... ;) We'll see... can't really afford it... but can afford to look. ;) It's fun... :) I could see just two vehicles in the drive... the '99 WJ and a Diesel powered 4x4 with luxury appointments... we'll see how this plays out... :) (Still keeping my eyes open for a Diesel Blazer/Tahoe/Yukon...) from the jeep website: (oh, btw, couldn't get that jeep grand cherokee thing to play in netscape or ie... downloaded windows player 10 even... :( http://www.jeep.com/crd/index.html The 2.8L Common-Rail Diesel I-4 Engine with best-in-class available torque. # the fuel economy of an I-4 # the acceleration of a V6 # the torque output of a V8 How did we make Jeep Liberty more capable than ever? Three letters: CRD. CRD stands for Common Rail Diesel - an all-new, second-generation diesel engine that can be found at the heart of the Jeep Liberty CRD, available later this year. Forget everything you remember about the diesels of old. later, john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 18:17:47 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: xj: Re: a Diesel is coming, a Diesel... well, from a standpoint of having a nice daily Diesel driver that can tow my trailer every now and then, get good mileage and is a 4x4 would consolidate two of my vehicles into one. I have two Diesels now... the Jimmy and the Benz... the KJ is goofy looking, but it is nice to drive, it's supposedly good for wheeling, but I'm not going to buy a new Jeep and wheel it... I've yet to see a Jeep that wasn't decent off road in stock trim, so despite the obvious issues of independent suspension it's still worth considering... A Diesel XJ would be my first choice... the XJ was the best all around Jeep every made. It did everything well. john On Sat, 23 Oct 2004, Aaron Storms wrote: >-->The few lifted Liberty's I've seen looked pretty decent, but the reviews >-->I've read about the work that went into them to develop a custom lift, a >-->front solid axle swap, and all the other goodies would make it hard to >-->justify building one anytime soon. Aaron >--> >-->Aaron Storms, Publisher >-->Gilpin County News >-->PO Box 93 >-->Black Hawk, CO 80422 >-->303.582.0133 >-->aaron.storms-at-mindspring.com >-->----- Original Message ----- >-->From: "john" >-->To: "full size jeep list" ; "xj-list" ; >-->"diesel-benz list" >-->Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2004 1:32 PM >-->Subject: xj: a Diesel is coming, a Diesel... >--> >--> >-->> While the Liberty is butt ugly and has a few other >-->> oddities and inconveniences, two things lean in it's >-->> favor: it's a Jeep and it's soon to have a Diesel. >-->> A Common-Rail Diesel... 2.8L Turbo Diesel... :) >-->> >-->> Found this blurb: >-->> "Jeep Liberty will be available with a 2.8-liter common rail diesel >-->> (CRD) engine for the first time in the United States and Canada. >-->> The 2.8-liter CRD is rated at an estimated 160 horsepower (120 kW) >-->> at 3800 rpm and with 295 lb.-ft. (400 N.m) at 1800 rpm, providing >-->> class-leading torque and towing capability. Diesel engines offer >-->> another option for increased torque, towing and range, while >-->> improving fuel economy an average of 25 percent and reducing >-->> CO2 emissions by an average of 20 percent. The diesel engine >-->> will be available on both Sport and Limited models." >-->> from: http://www.wforum.com/waf/posts/42284.shtml >-->> >-->> Also, when I test drove a KJ I found it rode nicer than >-->> the WJ and was quieter... although it had a softer handling >-->> feel to it than the XJ or the WJ. No solid front axle, >-->> but then again the new GC doesn't either... :( >-->> >-->> If that 2.8L V6 CRD can tow my trailer* gets at least 28mpg in town, >-->> comes with an Automatic and decent features... I could see getting >-->> rid of my '91 300d, my '83 GMC Jimmy, a few of my "older" FSJs, >-->> and even my '99 WJ... although that will be a hard one since >-->> it's not really "mine". ;) >-->> >-->> * (trailer: 1975 J10 long bed box equipped with dual hydraulic cylinders >-->> as a dump bed that weighs 1,990 empty... the trailer has a >-->> Model 20 rear axle that's been gutted and equipped with hydraulic >-->> surge DISC brakes http://www.wagoneers.com/FSJ/J10-trailer/ >-->> http://www.wagoneers.com/fotos/2004/a-day-in-September/trailer-in-use-1.jpg >-->> http://www.wagoneers.com/fotos/2004/a-day-in-September/trailer-xj-1.jpg >-->> http://www.wagoneers.com/fotos/2004/a-day-in-September/xj-trailer-loaded-at-home.jpg >-->> http://www.wagoneers.com/fotos/2004/a-day-in-September/compost-dump.jpg >-->> http://www.wagoneers.com/fotos/2004/a-day-in-September/loaded-with-gravel.jpg >-->> http://www.wagoneers.com/fotos/2004/a-day-in-September/unloading-trees.jpg >-->> http://www.wagoneers.com/fotos/2004/a-day-in-September/washing-trailer-4sep04.jpg) >-->> >-->> I've never had a new vehicle... love Diesels and love Jeeps. >-->> >-->> I think the pricing on this vehicle will be a bit more realistic >-->> than the Toureg. If it's under $30k and I can figure a way of >-->> swinging the payments... hmmm, wait, if I teach part time I've >-->> got it covered... ;) sure, lets take a second job for a new >-->> jeep... why not... ;) >-->> >-->> We'll see... can't really afford it... but can afford to look. ;) >-->> It's fun... :) >-->> >-->> I could see just two vehicles in the drive... the '99 WJ and >-->> a Diesel powered 4x4 with luxury appointments... we'll see how >-->> this plays out... :) (Still keeping my eyes open for a Diesel >-->> Blazer/Tahoe/Yukon...) >-->> >-->> >-->> from the jeep website: >-->> (oh, btw, couldn't get that jeep grand cherokee thing to play >-->> in netscape or ie... downloaded windows player 10 even... :( >-->> >-->> http://www.jeep.com/crd/index.html >-->> >-->> The 2.8L Common-Rail Diesel I-4 Engine with best-in-class available >-->> torque. >-->> >-->> # the fuel economy of an I-4 >-->> # the acceleration of a V6 >-->> # the torque output of a V8 >-->> >-->> How did we make Jeep Liberty more capable than ever? Three letters: CRD. >-->> >-->> CRD stands for Common Rail Diesel - an all-new, second-generation diesel >-->> engine >-->> that can be found at the heart of the Jeep Liberty CRD, available later >-->> this year. >-->> Forget everything you remember about the diesels of old. >-->> >-->> >-->> later, >-->> john >-->> ---- >-->> >-->> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->> ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** >-->> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. >-->> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 19:15:43 -0700 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: fsj: FSJ, XJ and MJ parts A: I have some Comanche parts (in Seattle). Blue longbox with just a couple minor scratches (from moving it around after hacking up the truck into a buggy) It comes with the rear frame and springs for $150 (I'll have a 2WD front axle to help make a trailer out of soon, or Comanche D35 with 3.07 gears). I also have an '86 Cherokee 2dr shell I am giving away http://www.snort4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15146 and I'm hacking up an '80 Cherokee 2dr. http://www.snort4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=121916 I have a '91 4.0L HO motor core (ran but oil pressure was low due to clogged oil screen) for $100 How about a Model 20 from a CJ7? (Widetrack centered 2.72 gears) $50 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 20:03:27 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: [db] eBay listing On Sat, 23 Oct 2004, Michael Aimino wrote: >-->My 1979 300D. >-->http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2497086567 wish it wasn't on the other side of the country... :) actually, it's probably a GOOD thing it's on the other side of the country... rofl... otherwise it might end up on top of a GMC chassis and that nice Mercedes Diesel engine would go to waste. :) john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 22:48:25 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: [db] eBay listing On Sat, 23 Oct 2004, Michael Aimino wrote: >-->> On Sat, 23 Oct 2004, Michael Aimino wrote: >-->> >-->My 1979 300D. >-->> >-->http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2497 >-->> >086567 >-->> >-->> wish it wasn't on the other side of the country... :) >-->> actually, it's probably a GOOD thing it's on the other side of the >-->> country... rofl... otherwise it might end up on top of a GMC chassis >-->> and that nice Mercedes Diesel engine would go to waste. :) >-->> >-->> john >--> >-->I have an '87 Suburban with the 6.2 diesel. Not a bad engine. I'd be >-->happy to load this car on a truck for ya. ;-> well, hopefully the visibility it's getting on ebay will entice someone closer to it to go for it. :) I couldn't justify spending $500 to displace a good body on a running vehicle at this point, let alone the truck shipping costs. :) john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 16:13:30 -0500 From: JeepNut Subject: fsj: What to take? Hi all, Well I am planning to take the boys and a friend each out to 143OffRoad Park next weekend. It's running well enough now that I think I can get to the trails and back barring any unforseen stupidity on my part. They're running a hare scrambles event and ATV races as part of the MidSouth Winter Series out there and I am just dying to do some trail riding. Since I don't know the place, and haven't actually ever been on an offroad adventure with the GWag, I thought we could check out the races and I can get my feet wet with some trails too if the conditions are reasonable. A friend with a bobtail (a 6mo old TJ) is coming with, but we're both newbies to any serious trail riding. I'm sure it will be a disaster, but in the hopes of avoiding the most common stupidities of the newbie I wondered if you guys have some favorite links to places which have a list of "recommended-things-to-have-with-you" for me to browse. I know the #2 thing I seem to recall reading about over the years, I don't have -a HiLift jack- but dang it, if I wait until I have everything I might need, I'll be dead of old age before I get to the trails. Half way there now..LOL... Thanks for any links that'll help. JeepNut - -- "Microsoft Certified Professionals are to the computing industry what McDonalds Certified Food Specialists are to gourmet restaurants." -Michael Bacarella 00Mar15 - ---------------------------------------------------------- '87 Street Comanche #24/100 '88 Grand Wagoneer ...and they say there's only one... '92 Cherokee Laredo - ---------------------------------------------------------- Registered Linux user #287453 ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #2283 **************************