fsj-digest Tuesday, November 16 2004 Volume 01 : Number 2306 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: RE: ebay Jerrari look-over fsj: RE: ebay Jerrari look-over fsj: RE: ebay Jerrari look-over Re: fsj: RE: ebay Jerrari look-over Re: fsj: RE: ebay Jerrari look-over FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 10:56:08 -0500 From: "Watry, Andrew (LNG-SFR)" Subject: fsj: RE: ebay Jerrari look-over It definitely had drums, front and rear. Looked stock Jeep to my non-expert eye. I heard from someone on an Italian car list that this sold at auction about three months ago for $12,500. It's at $8,600 now (Monday AM), not having met reserve. I'd love it for the looks, but it's not worth that kind of money to me. Plus the V12 to me was the main attraction, though I realize what that can mean in terms of ownership cost. No wonder somebody dumped it in the past. $25,000+ to rebuild. Andrew - -----Original Message----- From: john [mailto:john-at-wagoneers.com] Sent: Monday, November 15, 2004 7:40 AM To: Watry, Andrew (LNG-SFR) Cc: full size jeep list Subject: Re: ebay Jerrari look-over sounds like the buick 350/t400/d20 combination. the article mentioned disk brakes... but you mentioned the closed knuckle setup on the front. ditching the ferrari engine is not a bad thing. I looked at buying a used ferrari when I was in Germany... affordable, that is until you got to the part about the engine rebuild, which unfortunately occurs more often than I change tires... thanx for checking it out... too bad you couldn't test it out... with the fluids underneath and the dated driveline this may be an expensive acquisition... john On Mon, 15 Nov 2004, Watry, Andrew (LNG-SFR) wrote: >-->I checked out the Harrah ebay Jerrari in LA on Saturday. It was not >-->a very thorough look-over, because it was parked in a confined >-->space, and the seller's friend, not the seller, showed it to me, >-->didn't know much about it or have keys for it, and was in a hurry. >-->So I literally looked at it, didn't drive it or fire it up. >--> >-->Body: the body is as revised by Harrah's shop, with the Ferrari 365 >-->nose and revised side and rear profiles to match the Ferrari shape. >-->Quality of original revision looks to match period Italian body >-->work: good, not great. It's very convincing and factory looking, >-->though. Does not look like a bodge-job. Body is generally still >-->good, with one or two small dings. No rust I could see, though >-->undercarriage was recently painted with heavy black paint. Doors >-->and tailgate function as original. Electric rear window, manual >-->side windows. Has a sunroof in the vinyl top. Hood is from >-->Ferrari. Recently repainted from original white to dark green. Very >-->poor job, with lots of fisheye and other weirdness under the paint. >-->Looks OK from 50 ft. >--> >-->Interior: mostly Jeep, though seats are done in Ferrari style in a >-->cream leather, very well. Harrah's console and real Ferrari >-->steering wheel gone and redone, presumably when Ferrari engine/trans >-->were removed, said to be in late 70s. AC looks complete, but >-->couldn't check function. Some small detail changes in various >-->places >--> >-->Mechanicals: seller said it's a Buick 350 V8, and appears to be >-->whatever the standard Buick 3-speed auto trans from the period would >-->be. I don't know Buick stuff at all. Installation looked fine. >-->Dual exhaust new with Ferrari tips are rear. Lots of room in engine >-->bay. Appeared to be small 2BBL carb, though I didn't check what >-->type. Saginaw power steering box. Axles I would say were original >-->Jeep axles. Still has leaf springs, with coil-over shock helper >-->springs. Front axle has large "ball" swivel connection at hub, with >-->Warn locking hubs. I'd guess axles have not been changed. I >-->couldn't get at the right side, but that's where the transfer case >-->is, with the range selector coming up on the right side of the trans >-->hump. Driveshafts, etc., all look basically stock, as well as I >-->could see them, which was not a lot. Lots of apparent trans fluid >-->under the Jerrari on the ground. >--> >-->The car is currently registered in California. I haven't contacted >-->the seller for further info since looking at it. If anyone has >-->specific questions, I can try to answer, but I didn't get a lot of >-->time, or access, to look at it. >--> >-->Andrew Watry >--> >--> >--> >-->-----Original Message----- >-->From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net] On Behalf >-->Of john >-->Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2004 6:48 PM >-->To: full size jeep list >-->Subject: fsj: the '77 Jerrari is still at the National Auto Museum >--> >--> >-->my friend in Reno called yesterday to report that the bright orange >-->'77 Jerrari is still there where we left it. :) >--> >-->john >--> >--> ---- >--> >-->------------------------------------------------------------------------ - - >--> ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** >--> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. >-->-------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->----- >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 09:49:14 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: fsj: RE: ebay Jerrari look-over this sounds fishy... the article had disc brakes... this may not be the same Jeep. john On Mon, 15 Nov 2004, Watry, Andrew (LNG-SFR) wrote: >-->It definitely had drums, front and rear. Looked stock Jeep to my non-expert >-->eye. I heard from someone on an Italian car list that this sold at auction >-->about three months ago for $12,500. It's at $8,600 now (Monday AM), not >-->having met reserve. >--> >-->I'd love it for the looks, but it's not worth that kind of money to me. >-->Plus the V12 to me was the main attraction, though I realize what that can >-->mean in terms of ownership cost. No wonder somebody dumped it in the past. >-->$25,000+ to rebuild. >--> >-->Andrew >--> >-->-----Original Message----- >-->From: john [mailto:john-at-wagoneers.com] >-->Sent: Monday, November 15, 2004 7:40 AM >-->To: Watry, Andrew (LNG-SFR) >-->Cc: full size jeep list >-->Subject: Re: ebay Jerrari look-over >--> >--> >--> >-->sounds like the buick 350/t400/d20 combination. >-->the article mentioned disk brakes... but you mentioned >-->the closed knuckle setup on the front. >--> >-->ditching the ferrari engine is not a bad thing. I looked >-->at buying a used ferrari when I was in Germany... affordable, that is until >-->you got to the part about the engine rebuild, which unfortunately occurs >-->more often than I change tires... >--> >-->thanx for checking it out... too bad you couldn't test it out... with the >-->fluids underneath and the dated driveline this may be an expensive >-->acquisition... >--> >-->john >--> >-->On Mon, 15 Nov 2004, Watry, Andrew (LNG-SFR) wrote: >--> >-->>-->I checked out the Harrah ebay Jerrari in LA on Saturday. It was not >-->>-->a very thorough look-over, because it was parked in a confined >-->>-->space, and the seller's friend, not the seller, showed it to me, >-->>-->didn't know much about it or have keys for it, and was in a hurry. >-->>-->So I literally looked at it, didn't drive it or fire it up. >-->>--> >-->>-->Body: the body is as revised by Harrah's shop, with the Ferrari 365 >-->>-->nose and revised side and rear profiles to match the Ferrari shape. >-->>-->Quality of original revision looks to match period Italian body >-->>-->work: good, not great. It's very convincing and factory looking, >-->>-->though. Does not look like a bodge-job. Body is generally still >-->>-->good, with one or two small dings. No rust I could see, though >-->>-->undercarriage was recently painted with heavy black paint. Doors >-->>-->and tailgate function as original. Electric rear window, manual >-->>-->side windows. Has a sunroof in the vinyl top. Hood is from >-->>-->Ferrari. Recently repainted from original white to dark green. Very >-->>-->poor job, with lots of fisheye and other weirdness under the paint. >-->>-->Looks OK from 50 ft. >-->>--> >-->>-->Interior: mostly Jeep, though seats are done in Ferrari style in a >-->>-->cream leather, very well. Harrah's console and real Ferrari >-->>-->steering wheel gone and redone, presumably when Ferrari engine/trans >-->>-->were removed, said to be in late 70s. AC looks complete, but >-->>-->couldn't check function. Some small detail changes in various >-->>-->places >-->>--> >-->>-->Mechanicals: seller said it's a Buick 350 V8, and appears to be >-->>-->whatever the standard Buick 3-speed auto trans from the period would >-->>-->be. I don't know Buick stuff at all. Installation looked fine. >-->>-->Dual exhaust new with Ferrari tips are rear. Lots of room in engine >-->>-->bay. Appeared to be small 2BBL carb, though I didn't check what >-->>-->type. Saginaw power steering box. Axles I would say were original >-->>-->Jeep axles. Still has leaf springs, with coil-over shock helper >-->>-->springs. Front axle has large "ball" swivel connection at hub, with >-->>-->Warn locking hubs. I'd guess axles have not been changed. I >-->>-->couldn't get at the right side, but that's where the transfer case >-->>-->is, with the range selector coming up on the right side of the trans >-->>-->hump. Driveshafts, etc., all look basically stock, as well as I >-->>-->could see them, which was not a lot. Lots of apparent trans fluid >-->>-->under the Jerrari on the ground. >-->>--> >-->>-->The car is currently registered in California. I haven't contacted >-->>-->the seller for further info since looking at it. If anyone has >-->>-->specific questions, I can try to answer, but I didn't get a lot of >-->>-->time, or access, to look at it. >-->>--> >-->>-->Andrew Watry >-->>--> >-->>--> >-->>--> >-->>-->-----Original Message----- >-->>-->From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net] On Behalf >-->>-->Of john >-->>-->Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2004 6:48 PM >-->>-->To: full size jeep list >-->>-->Subject: fsj: the '77 Jerrari is still at the National Auto Museum >-->>--> >-->>--> >-->>-->my friend in Reno called yesterday to report that the bright orange >-->>-->'77 Jerrari is still there where we left it. :) >-->>--> >-->>-->john >-->>--> >-->>--> ---- >-->>--> >-->>-->------------------------------------------------------------------------ >-->- >-->>--> ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** >-->>--> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. >-->>-->-------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->>-->----- >-->>--> >--> >--> ---- >--> >-->------------------------------------------------------------------------- >--> ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** >--> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. >-->------------------------------------------------------------------------- >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 13:09:35 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: fsj: RE: ebay Jerrari look-over well, I thought I remembered from the article that they had added disc brakes, something you'd want to have on a vehicle capable of cruising at 100mph. trust me... drum brakes are useless over 70mph... I spent 5 years on the autobahn with '67 and '68 Mustangs... the '67 had a top speed of 140mph... essentially it had no brakes if I was going faster than 70... coming back from Munich one time a beetle pulled into the fastlane... I was only doing 95... it was rather exciting... luckliy he got back over before I hit him, but it was way too close... wait, hold the line... I just looked at the article again: http://www.wagoneers.com/FSJ/rigs/Jerrari-1/ it says, "oddly enough nothing was done to the brakes". I sit corrected. Ok, then basically someone improved/modified this thing to ditch the expensive high maintenance Ferrari engine, removed the console and changed the seats... more reasonable... Y'all remember the Pinto Pangra? :) I bet we could come up with a cool front end for a wagoneer if we put our collective insanity together. :) john On Mon, 15 Nov 2004, Watry, Andrew (LNG-SFR) wrote: >-->To me, these kinds of listings are notoriously vague and inaccurate, painted >-->with a broad brush. I never trust what I read in them. But I'd never buy a >-->car off ebay sight-unseen unless it was an utter bargain, which this isn't. >--> >-->Andrew >--> >-->-----Original Message----- >-->From: john [mailto:john-at-wagoneers.com] >-->Sent: Monday, November 15, 2004 9:49 AM >-->To: Watry, Andrew (LNG-SFR) >-->Cc: full size jeep list >-->Subject: RE: ebay Jerrari look-over >--> >--> >-->this sounds fishy... >--> >-->the article had disc brakes... this may not be the same Jeep. >--> >-->john >--> >--> >-->On Mon, 15 Nov 2004, Watry, Andrew (LNG-SFR) wrote: >--> >-->>-->It definitely had drums, front and rear. Looked stock Jeep to my >-->>-->non-expert eye. I heard from someone on an Italian car list that >-->>-->this sold at auction about three months ago for $12,500. It's at >-->>-->$8,600 now (Monday AM), not having met reserve. >-->>--> >-->>-->I'd love it for the looks, but it's not worth that kind of money to >-->>-->me. Plus the V12 to me was the main attraction, though I realize >-->>-->what that can mean in terms of ownership cost. No wonder somebody >-->>-->dumped it in the past. $25,000+ to rebuild. >-->>--> >-->>-->Andrew >-->>--> >-->>-->-----Original Message----- >-->>-->From: john [mailto:john-at-wagoneers.com] >-->>-->Sent: Monday, November 15, 2004 7:40 AM >-->>-->To: Watry, Andrew (LNG-SFR) >-->>-->Cc: full size jeep list >-->>-->Subject: Re: ebay Jerrari look-over >-->>--> >-->>--> >-->>--> >-->>-->sounds like the buick 350/t400/d20 combination. >-->>-->the article mentioned disk brakes... but you mentioned >-->>-->the closed knuckle setup on the front. >-->>--> >-->>-->ditching the ferrari engine is not a bad thing. I looked at buying >-->>-->a used ferrari when I was in Germany... affordable, that is until >-->>-->you got to the part about the engine rebuild, which unfortunately >-->>-->occurs more often than I change tires... >-->>--> >-->>-->thanx for checking it out... too bad you couldn't test it out... >-->>-->with the fluids underneath and the dated driveline this may be an >-->>-->expensive acquisition... >-->>--> >-->>-->john >-->>--> >-->>-->On Mon, 15 Nov 2004, Watry, Andrew (LNG-SFR) wrote: >-->>--> >-->>-->>-->I checked out the Harrah ebay Jerrari in LA on Saturday. It was >-->>-->>-->not a very thorough look-over, because it was parked in a >-->>-->>-->confined space, and the seller's friend, not the seller, showed >-->>-->>-->it to me, didn't know much about it or have keys for it, and was >-->>-->>-->in a hurry. So I literally looked at it, didn't drive it or fire >-->>-->>-->it up. >-->>-->>--> >-->>-->>-->Body: the body is as revised by Harrah's shop, with the Ferrari >-->>-->>-->365 nose and revised side and rear profiles to match the Ferrari >-->>-->>-->shape. Quality of original revision looks to match period >-->>-->>-->Italian body >-->>-->>-->work: good, not great. It's very convincing and factory looking, >-->>-->>-->though. Does not look like a bodge-job. Body is generally still >-->>-->>-->good, with one or two small dings. No rust I could see, though >-->>-->>-->undercarriage was recently painted with heavy black paint. Doors >-->>-->>-->and tailgate function as original. Electric rear window, manual >-->>-->>-->side windows. Has a sunroof in the vinyl top. Hood is from >-->>-->>-->Ferrari. Recently repainted from original white to dark green. Very >-->>-->>-->poor job, with lots of fisheye and other weirdness under the paint. >-->>-->>-->Looks OK from 50 ft. >-->>-->>--> >-->>-->>-->Interior: mostly Jeep, though seats are done in Ferrari style in >-->>-->>-->a cream leather, very well. Harrah's console and real Ferrari >-->>-->>-->steering wheel gone and redone, presumably when Ferrari >-->>-->>-->engine/trans were removed, said to be in late 70s. AC looks >-->>-->>-->complete, but couldn't check function. Some small detail >-->>-->>-->changes in various places >-->>-->>--> >-->>-->>-->Mechanicals: seller said it's a Buick 350 V8, and appears to be >-->>-->>-->whatever the standard Buick 3-speed auto trans from the period >-->>-->>-->would be. I don't know Buick stuff at all. Installation looked >-->>-->>-->fine. Dual exhaust new with Ferrari tips are rear. Lots of room >-->>-->>-->in engine bay. Appeared to be small 2BBL carb, though I didn't >-->>-->>-->check what type. Saginaw power steering box. Axles I would say >-->>-->>-->were original Jeep axles. Still has leaf springs, with >-->>-->>-->coil-over shock helper springs. Front axle has large "ball" >-->>-->>-->swivel connection at hub, with Warn locking hubs. I'd guess >-->>-->>-->axles have not been changed. I couldn't get at the right side, >-->>-->>-->but that's where the transfer case is, with the range selector >-->>-->>-->coming up on the right side of the trans hump. Driveshafts, >-->>-->>-->etc., all look basically stock, as well as I could see them, >-->>-->>-->which was not a lot. Lots of apparent trans fluid under the >-->>-->>-->Jerrari on the ground. >-->>-->>--> >-->>-->>-->The car is currently registered in California. I haven't >-->>-->>-->contacted the seller for further info since looking at it. If >-->>-->>-->anyone has specific questions, I can try to answer, but I didn't >-->>-->>-->get a lot of time, or access, to look at it. >-->>-->>--> >-->>-->>-->Andrew Watry >-->>-->>--> >-->>-->>--> >-->>-->>--> >-->>-->>-->-----Original Message----- >-->>-->>-->From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net] On >-->>-->>-->Behalf Of john >-->>-->>-->Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2004 6:48 PM >-->>-->>-->To: full size jeep list >-->>-->>-->Subject: fsj: the '77 Jerrari is still at the National Auto >-->>-->>-->Museum >-->>-->>--> >-->>-->>--> >-->>-->>-->my friend in Reno called yesterday to report that the bright >-->>-->>-->orange '77 Jerrari is still there where we left it. :) >-->>-->>--> >-->>-->>-->john >-->>-->>--> >-->>-->>--> ---- >-->>-->>--> >-->>-->>-->---------------------------------------------------------------- >-->>-->>-->-------- >-->>-->- >-->>-->>--> ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** >-->>-->>--> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they >-->>-->>-->mold. >-->>-->>-->-------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->>-->>-->----- >-->>-->>--> >-->>--> >-->>--> ---- >-->>--> >-->>-->------------------------------------------------------------------------ >-->- >-->>--> ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** >-->>--> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. >-->>-->-------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->>-->----- >-->>--> >--> >--> ---- >--> >-->------------------------------------------------------------------------- >--> ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** >--> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. >-->------------------------------------------------------------------------- >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 16:54:24 CST From: Dan Black Subject: Re: fsj: RE: ebay Jerrari look-over john said: {- wait, hold the line... I just looked at the article again: {- http://www.wagoneers.com/FSJ/rigs/Jerrari-1/ I just realized that I scanned the article and photos and put them in pdfs, but never got around to reading it... It says 0-60 in 9.4... Hah, I beat that with the fuel-injected 401 and 2.72 gears! Even a couple hundred pounds more weight! :) However, it also says 0-100 in 21.2 and 1/4mi in 15sec... took me I think around 17sec for the 1/4mi at around 84mph, and likely 100mph would've taken me closer to 25-30sec, I dunno. Yep, not surprising that the Ferrari engine will shine at the higher revs, while the 360 and 401 have decent low-end grunt. Now I have the 3.54 gears, and I don't like to take it much above about 75mph. Kept the 68-72mph range on the interstate for long distances, and that was around 3200rpm. Need to try the 31" tires from the '74 and decide if those will be good enough, or if I need a bit o' lift and 33" tires, just to get my top speed back up. I want to be able to go at least 85 for extended distances. I like to go at least 80 across NE and eastert CO and WY, and I'd like at least 5mph leeway over whatever I plan to do... and that's for long distances; obviously "top speed" would be higher for short runs, at revs you wouldn't hold for the longer distances. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If you lend someone $20 and never see that person again, it was probably worth it. - -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 17:19:51 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: RE: ebay Jerrari look-over hey, speaking of highways... how long did it take you to get to Ouray? john On Mon, 15 Nov 2004, Dan Black wrote: >-->john said: >-->{- wait, hold the line... I just looked at the article again: >-->{- http://www.wagoneers.com/FSJ/rigs/Jerrari-1/ >--> >-->I just realized that I scanned the article and photos and put them in >-->pdfs, but never got around to reading it... >--> >-->It says 0-60 in 9.4... Hah, I beat that with the fuel-injected 401 and >-->2.72 gears! Even a couple hundred pounds more weight! :) However, it >-->also says 0-100 in 21.2 and 1/4mi in 15sec... took me I think around >-->17sec for the 1/4mi at around 84mph, and likely 100mph would've taken me >-->closer to 25-30sec, I dunno. Yep, not surprising that the Ferrari >-->engine will shine at the higher revs, while the 360 and 401 have decent >-->low-end grunt. >--> >-->Now I have the 3.54 gears, and I don't like to take it much above about >-->75mph. Kept the 68-72mph range on the interstate for long distances, >-->and that was around 3200rpm. Need to try the 31" tires from the '74 and >-->decide if those will be good enough, or if I need a bit o' lift and 33" >-->tires, just to get my top speed back up. I want to be able to go at >-->least 85 for extended distances. I like to go at least 80 across NE and >-->eastert CO and WY, and I'd like at least 5mph leeway over whatever I >-->plan to do... and that's for long distances; obviously "top speed" would >-->be higher for short runs, at revs you wouldn't hold for the longer >-->distances. >--> >-->------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >--> If you lend someone $20 and never see that person again, >--> it was probably worth it. >-->-------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #2306 **************************