From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Mon Jan 10 14:49:09 2005 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Monday, January 10 2005 Volume 01 : Number 2338 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: RE: fsj: FSJ: 83 J-20 Rebuild Questions Re: fsj: FSJ: 83 J-20 Rebuild Questions fsj: 1966 Wagoneer for sale fsj: Re: 1966 Wagoneer for sale Re: fsj: Re: 1966 Wagoneer for sale Re: fsj: Re: 1966 Wagoneer for sale fsj: I'm not kidding... Re: fsj: Re: 1966 Wagoneer for sale Re: fsj: Re: 1966 Wagoneer for sale fsj: 1967 Wgoneer in WA Re: fsj: Q re towing Cherokee behind GW fsj: overdrive tranny... Re: fsj: fsj - adapter/clocking ring AW4 Re: fsj: fsj - adapter/clocking ring AW4 fsj: Re: overdrive tranny... fsj: Re: fsj - adapter/clocking ring AW4 FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2005 12:01:13 -0800 From: "Kevin Bahm" Subject: RE: fsj: FSJ: 83 J-20 Rebuild Questions Thanks for the link to the zmjeeps site, I think the HEI setup is just what I was looking for; great info on the various ignition options there. You sort of lost me on the gear ratios though, I think I'll leave that stuff alone unless it breaks! Kevin - -----Original Message----- From: Jim Blair [mailto:carnuck1-at-msn.com] Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2005 8:29 PM To: Kevin Bahm Cc: Full Size Jeep List Subject: Re: fsj: FSJ: 83 J-20 Rebuild Questions A: You have some options, depending on your plans with the vehicle. A 304 is plenty of power and a bit lighter on gas when you are running empty a lot. (not too shabby when it's loaded either. Worst I got was 10 mpg and that was with 2 tons of bricks and a trailer behind my J4000) You need gears to match the use. Tall axle gears are great for the highway and now with the NV241 OR with 4:1 low range, you can offhighway and still cruise at 70 with 3.73 (or taller) gears and 33" tires. Then there is the 4.0L option (the 4.6L stroker is better if you want a fresh motor anyways) with AW4 trans. (I just found the correct adapter plate/clocking ring from Advanced Adapters to hook up a NP case to AW4) EFI is a nice upgrade too and often needs less maintenance (as long as you have good filtration and avoid crappo gas) For a daily driver, duals are nice, but without a harmonized crossover pipe you lose too much power. The shops seem to be mixed, but I have had good luck with Global engine's better quality rebuilds. The Jeep CDI ignition works nice for a 4.0L, but with a V8, I would go with http://zmjeeps.com HEI dist setup. What's not to like about 70,000 volts and the whole system running off 1 wire? (he's doing something with a later one that can be used to operate GM TBI fuel injection as well) On Sat, 8 Jan 2005, Kevin Bahm wrote: >-->I am getting ready to yank the 360 out of ^SOl^R Leaky^T, and I have the >usual >-->decisions to make: >--> >-->1. Crate or re-build: I am leaning toward a re-man. long block from >-->Jeep Motors N^R Engines Replacement Co. in Seattle. Anyone have any >-->experience with them? Or anyone know of a good AMC machine shop in the >-->Western WA area? (Monroe ^V Snohomish Co.) >-->2. Stock cam or RV? I mainly just haul stuff with it, and >occasional >-->off-road excursions. >-->3. Stick with stock 2bbl or upgrade to Edelbrock manifold >(non-EGR?) >-->with 4bbl carb? I think it would be more fun to upgrade, but I don^Rt >want >-->to dump too much cash into a truck my kids will drive more than I will. >If >-->I go to a 4bbl would I have to put in dual exhaust pipes? If I do that >-->should I put headers on it or stick with stock manifolds? >-->4. Any compelling reason to upgrade the ignition system? I notice >this >-->seems to be a commonly upgraded item on project vehicles I^Rve checked >out >-->lately. >--> >-->Any advice & opinions appreciated, >--> >-->Kevin >--> ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2005 17:29:14 -0800 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: Re: fsj: FSJ: 83 J-20 Rebuild Questions A: You need to know your ratios if you plan an engine swap. There is a tag on the cover of the front axle that will tell you what both are. If you keep stock tires size, it usally not a biggie, but AMC Jeep motors are built for bottom end, so they run taller axle ratios to cruise the highway. Put a GM motor built for freeway cruising at high RPM and it will feel like a slug until you get past 50 mph and won't pull a wet noodle around town. Thanks for the link to the zmjeeps site, I think the HEI setup is just what I was looking for; great info on the various ignition options there. You sort of lost me on the gear ratios though, I think I'll leave that stuff alone unless it breaks! Kevin - -----Original Message----- From: Jim Blair [mailto:carnuck1-at-msn.com] Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2005 8:29 PM To: Kevin Bahm Cc: Full Size Jeep List Subject: Re: fsj: FSJ: 83 J-20 Rebuild Questions A: You have some options, depending on your plans with the vehicle. A 304 is plenty of power and a bit lighter on gas when you are running empty a lot. (not too shabby when it's loaded either. Worst I got was 10 mpg and that was with 2 tons of bricks and a trailer behind my J4000) You need gears to match the use. Tall axle gears are great for the highway and now with the NV241 OR with 4:1 low range, you can offhighway and still cruise at 70 with 3.73 (or taller) gears and 33" tires. Then there is the 4.0L option (the 4.6L stroker is better if you want a fresh motor anyways) with AW4 trans. (I just found the correct adapter plate/clocking ring from Advanced Adapters to hook up a NP case to AW4) EFI is a nice upgrade too and often needs less maintenance (as long as you have good filtration and avoid crappo gas) For a daily driver, duals are nice, but without a harmonized crossover pipe you lose too much power. The shops seem to be mixed, but I have had good luck with Global engine's better quality rebuilds. The Jeep CDI ignition works nice for a 4.0L, but with a V8, I would go with http://zmjeeps.com HEI dist setup. What's not to like about 70,000 volts and the whole system running off 1 wire? (he's doing something with a later one that can be used to operate GM TBI fuel injection as well) On Sat, 8 Jan 2005, Kevin Bahm wrote: ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2005 18:44:05 -0800 (PST) From: jeremi smyers Subject: fsj: 1966 Wagoneer for sale I am in southern california (909) 561-8972 i am selling a 1966 Jeep Wagoneer. It is missing the engine. I have the tranny and transfer removed but i still have those. Truck otherwise is in great shape and has and orig 48000 miles. VIN# 1414c101034 Make and offer and arrange pickup. I am negoitable. Thanks I can provide Pictures. The all-new My Yahoo! ^V Get yours free! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2005 20:31:42 -0800 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: fsj: Re: 1966 Wagoneer for sale A: Hand crank rear window anyone? jeremi smyers marriedcaliforniaguy24-at-yahoo.com wrote: I am in southern california (909) 561-8972 i am selling a 1966 Jeep Wagoneer. It is missing the engine. I have the tranny and transfer removed but i still have those. Truck otherwise is in great shape and has and orig 48000 miles. VIN# 1414c101034 Make and offer and arrange pickup. I am negoitable. Thanks I can provide Pictures. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2005 20:46:29 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Re: 1966 Wagoneer for sale On Sun, 9 Jan 2005, Jim Blair wrote: >-->A: Hand crank rear window anyone? hey, will it work on my '83 GMC Jimmy? mine's broken. :) john >--> >--> >-->jeremi smyers marriedcaliforniaguy24-at-yahoo.com wrote: >--> I am in southern california (909) 561-8972 i am selling a 1966 Jeep >-->Wagoneer. It is missing the engine. I have the tranny and transfer removed >-->but i still have those. Truck otherwise is in great shape and has and orig >-->48000 miles. VIN# 1414c101034 Make and offer and arrange pickup. I am >-->negoitable. Thanks I can provide Pictures. >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2005 21:47:07 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Re: 1966 Wagoneer for sale On Sun, 9 Jan 2005, john wrote: >-->>-->jeremi smyers marriedcaliforniaguy24-at-yahoo.com wrote: >-->>--> I am in southern california (909) 561-8972 i am selling a 1966 Jeep >-->>-->Wagoneer. It is missing the engine. I have the tranny and transfer removed >-->>-->but i still have those. Truck otherwise is in great shape and has and orig >-->>-->48000 miles. VIN# 1414c101034 Make and offer and arrange pickup. I am >-->>-->negoitable. Thanks I can provide Pictures. turns out we have some pictures: http://www.wagoneers.com/FSJ/rigs/66wagoneer/ somebody down there buy this thing or I'm likely to put a Diesel in it... :) john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2005 22:28:10 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: fsj: I'm not kidding... I'm not kidding when I say "where Jeeps don't rust, they mold." well, so do Mercedes... in fact, things grow quite well here... as evidenced in this picture: http://www.wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/CARS/77-300cd/77-300cd-plant.jpg price is reduced by the way... ;) http://www.wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/CARS/77-300cd/ john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2005 22:57:29 -0800 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: Re: fsj: Re: 1966 Wagoneer for sale Oh well! jeremi smyers marriedcaliforniaguy24-at-yahoo.com wrote: Nope not a hand crank. Electric Jim Blair > wrote:A: Hand crank rear window anyone? jeremi smyers marriedcaliforniaguy24-at-yahoo.com wrote: I am in southern california (909) 561-8972 i am selling a 1966 Jeep Wagoneer. It is missing the engine. I have the tranny and transfer removed but i still have those. Truck otherwise is in great shape and has and orig 48000 miles. VIN# 1414c101034 Make and offer and arrange pickup. I am negoitable. Thanks I can provide Pictures. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 02:27:50 EST From: DRIVEIN59-at-aol.com Subject: Re: fsj: Re: 1966 Wagoneer for sale I have a 1967 with engine and trans MAKE OFFER Dennis 425-741-2497 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 02:38:12 EST From: DRIVEIN59-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: 1967 Wgoneer in WA I have a1967 Wagoneer Custom 1414C code that needs a new home. 327, TH400, Dana 27 front, Dana 44 Rear Drum all the way around. Not a Super Waggy Advertised for 300 or BEST offer for a while now it is BEST OFFER straight up. Truck is complete and has some work done to it. Call me for any information you want 425-741-2497. If I cant move it I will junk it:( To many projects, no parking. Another 73 on the way and a 84 will keep me in the FSJ groove. Thanks Dennis Russell ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 06:27:24 EST From: Smokey99908-at-aol.com Subject: Re: fsj: Q re towing Cherokee behind GW Thanks for the help all, We had 'snow Emergencey', actually ice the last chance I had to pick it up so I opted for a hired tow truck. Still he managed to clash mirrrors with another truck and later take out my neighbors fence, but no damage to the xj :) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 09:55:03 CST From: Dan Black Subject: fsj: overdrive tranny... When I said "original components", I naturally meant besides the tranny, not necessarily keep the old tranny with some sort of overdrive add-on. But I don't want to change the transfer case, engine, or have to re-do the entire driveline with custom drive shafts or something. And I'd prefer to not have to spend several hundred on a custom adapter for the new tranny. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Most people use statistics the way a drunk uses a lamp post. More for support than illumination. -- Mark Twain - -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 09:53:12 CST From: Dan Black Subject: Re: fsj: fsj - adapter/clocking ring AW4 john said: {- On Sat, 8 Jan 2005, Jim Blair wrote: {- >-->fresh motor anyways) with AW4 trans. (I just found the correct adapter {- >-->plate/clocking ring from Advanced Adapters to hook up a NP case to AW4) {- EFI {- {- part number? price? picture? OK, so is there an overdrive transmission that can be put in fairly easily and keep all the original components? I'm especially interested in doing something for the '88, which currently has a 401, TF727, and NP229. It also has GM-based EFI, if that helps (since some GM trannies use some sort of computer control). I'd also be interested in something for the '74, which currently has a 401, TH400, and BW1339. It does not currently have EFI, but I'd like to do that "someday". - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hardware: (n.) The parts of a computer system that can be kicked. - -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 09:22:48 -0800 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: Re: fsj: fsj - adapter/clocking ring AW4 A: I have been looking into this for quite awhile. Easiest bolt in is not the strongest unfortunately. 42RH (I think that is the proper designation Chryco calls them an A500), but it comes behind the 4.0L in '94 up Grand Cherokees and it would need some upgrades to handle it, but bellhousing is correct, and it's 23 spline output. The other possibility is 700R4 that was bolted to a NP208 (or other GM NP or NV Tcase with round Tcase mount) because it can be hooked into the GM computer, but it needs a motor to trans adapter. 4L80E is the strongest, but I don't know if GM used it with TBI and the 4x4 ones behind the diesels are hard to come by because hotrodders have the wrecking yards posted with waiting lists. (4L80 is the non-computer controlled version used with diesels and only used a couple years) You could possibly put the output shaft from the TH400 QT into a 700R4, but I'm not sure. john said: {- On Sat, 8 Jan 2005, Jim Blair wrote: {- >-->fresh motor anyways) with AW4 trans. (I just found the correct adapter {- >-->plate/clocking ring from Advanced Adapters to hook up a NP case to AW4) {- EFI {- {- part number? price? picture? OK, so is there an overdrive transmission that can be put in fairly easily and keep all the original components? I'm especially interested in doing something for the '88, which currently has a 401, TF727, and NP229. It also has GM-based EFI, if that helps (since some GM trannies use some sort of computer control). I'd also be interested in something for the '74, which currently has a 401, TH400, and BW1339. It does not currently have EFI, but I'd like to do that "someday". - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hardware: (n.) The parts of a computer system that can be kicked. - -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 09:24:45 -0800 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: fsj: Re: overdrive tranny... The other trannies would require shorter driveshafts in the rear and longer in the front, but I'm not sure by how much. Dan wrote: When I said "original components", I naturally meant besides the tranny, not necessarily keep the old tranny with some sort of overdrive add-on. But I don't want to change the transfer case, engine, or have to re-do the entire driveline with custom drive shafts or something. And I'd prefer to not have to spend several hundred on a custom adapter for the new tranny. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Most people use statistics the way a drunk uses a lamp post. More for support than illumination. - -- Mark Twain - -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 14:19:47 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: fsj - adapter/clocking ring AW4 what did it cost? put it on my server: http://www.wagoneers.com/FSJ/tech/jims-adapter-ring.JPG On Sun, 9 Jan 2005, Jim Blair wrote: >-->One adapter ring. Roughly 3/4" thick. Bought used, so I'm not sure what the >-->part number is. (now I can bolt up a NP208J to my 23 spline AW4 for my >-->Comanche, IF I don't go with the NV242 instead. My wife is still hemming and >-->hawing over dumping her '01 Subaru and keeping the Comanche for herself) >--> >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #2338 **************************