From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Wed Feb 9 12:31:50 2005 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Wednesday, February 9 2005 Volume 01 : Number 2360 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: fsj: RE: [db] fuel economy? Re: fsj: Re: Breaking up after 10 years together Re: fsj: Re: Breaking up after 10 years together Re: fsj: Re: Breaking up after 10 years together Re: fsj: RE: [db] fuel economy? Re: fsj: Re: Breaking up after 10 years together fsj: Re: Breaking up after 10 years together fsj: Trying to track down some info on my new fsj fsj: Re: Re: Breaking up after 10 years together FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 08:05:26 -0800 (PST) From: Brad Seevers Subject: Re: fsj: RE: [db] fuel economy? The thing is, XJs are getting so cheap that you would save so much on the purchase versus an Escape or Liberty, you would be ahead moneywise overall for about forever. Course, what you should do is buy a couple more SJs! :) - --- john wrote: > I kind of like the size of the RAV4s and the Ford > Escapes... I drove > an Escape in Missouri when I taught a class there... > it was ok... if > I got one cheap enough... but my mileage was only > about 18 or so, not > impressive. > > I looked at a KJ this morning... it was ok, not > impressive... I'd > rather get another XJ... looking at the numbers > again... thinking... > enjoying the 124... The KJ is 16/20, the XJ about > the same, my > '87 was 17/21... my 124 consistently gets 30+ in > town... even > with gas prices at 1.89 and Diesel at 2.23, it still > makes sense > to drive a 124 Diesel... > > If I ditched everything I had, got one XJ or KJ and > drove it, > with the savings/costs all factored in for fuel and > insurance, assuming > no car payment, meaning I'd be buying "very" used... > then to drive a > gas rig that got 18mpg would cost me about $300/yr > MORE than having > my 124, my Jimmy/Willys and eventually my J10. > Insurance costs almost > make this work... If Diesel were priced as it has > been historically > we wouldn't be having this conversation at all... > > So, at this point the 124 looks to be the best > value... will sell > the Jimmy as soon as the Willys is ready, then sell > the willys > as soon as the J10 is done... so, it looks like > it'll be the > 124, the WJ and the J10, with the J10 trailer... > > other thoughts are bound to occur... have to... > otherwise > Orville Redenbacher would have to intervene. ;) > > john > > On Tue, 8 Feb 2005, Alec Cordova wrote: > > >-->DC plans have changed. The Smart is not coming > for at least another year or > >-->two. > >--> > >-->According to a quick check on > www.fueleconomy.gov, other than the Hybrid > >-->Escape, the best mileage in what they list as > the SUV Market Class is the > >-->Subies. Subaru Forester and Outback AWD with > flat 4 and automatic trannies > >-->both rated at 22/28. Manuals rated a little > higher. Behind the Subarus, The > >-->Honda CR-V and Toyota RAV4, both with 4WD and > automatics, are rated at > >-->22/27. > >--> > >-->Just imagine what these things could get with a > modern little diesel. I'm > >-->thinking high 20s city, mid 30s highway? > >--> > >-->Alec > >--> > >-->> -----Original Message----- > >-->> From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net > >-->> [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net]On Behalf > Of Mike Frank > >-->> Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 5:46 AM > >-->> To: diesel-benz list > >-->> Subject: Re: [db] fuel economy? > >-->> > >-->> > >-->> If you wait until next year, Mercedes is > planning to import an > >-->> SUV version > >-->> of the Smart car.... > >-->> > http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/91/super-size.html > >-->> > >-->> Mike Frank > >-->> > >-->> At 11:49 PM 2/7/2005, john wrote: > >-->> >out of all the SUV's/AWD's... > >-->> > with an automatic... > >-->> > any make, or size... > >-->> > > >-->> >what are the most economical? > >--> > > ---- > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** > http://freegift.net ** > Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't > rust, they mold. > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 08:09:00 -0800 (PST) From: Brad Seevers Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Breaking up after 10 years together I must have missed somehting here?? What is the problem with the tailgate??? :) - --- john wrote: > you know, I was tempted... I saw a '91 wagoneer for > $1,500... and > the gears started turning... that 6.2L Diesel into > it... yes, yes, > 18, maybe 20mpg... in an FSJ... only problem would > be the tailgate... > and of course finding the time to buy the engine > hoist, and then > the bigger problem of finding the time to actually > use it. ;) > > john > > On Tue, 8 Feb 2005 Brazzadog-at-aol.com wrote: > > >-->Not a chance! > >-->I'll miss the reliability of the Wagoneer and I > never got tired of looking > >-->at it, but I've wanted a nicely optioned Chief > ever since they first came out > >-->with them. As soon as I find time, I know I'm > going to have fun with it. > >--> > >-->Ben > >--> > >-->In a message dated 2/8/2005 8:20:35 PM Pacific > Standard Time, > >-->proj96xj-at-bellsouth.net writes: > >--> > >-->lol! > >-->but would you have it any other way? > >-->;) > >--> > >-->Neal A. Hoover > >-->Project '76 J-10 > >-->Project '96 XJ > >-->http://community.webshots.com/user/proj96xj > >-->----- Original Message ----- > >-->From: > >-->To: ; > >-->Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 11:13 PM > >-->Subject: Re: Breaking up after 10 years > together > >--> > >--> > >-->> > >-->> Actually, I'm not riding much at all : ) The > Cherokee's > >-->auto-exhaust-lubing > >-->> rear main seal would double as barbecue > starter. I've got a spare 360 > >-->> waiting in the wings, but too many other > "fires" to put out right now. > >-->> > >-->> Ben > >-->> > >-->> > >-->> In a message dated 2/8/2005 8:03:49 PM > Pacific Standard Time, > >-->> proj96xj-at-bellsouth.net writes: > >-->> > >-->> what a bitter sweet ride you're having > >-->> > >-->> Neal A. Hoover > >-->> Project '76 J-10 > >-->> Project '96 XJ > >-->> http://community.webshots.com/user/proj96xj > >-->> ----- Original Message ----- > >-->> From: > >-->> To: > >-->> Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 12:52 PM > >-->> Subject: fsj: Breaking up after 10 years > together > >-->> > >-->> > >-->> > For those of you keeping track of this > stuff, I've broken up with my > >-->'71 > >-->> > Wagoneer. We had a good 10 years, but > finally had to admit that our > >-->> interests > >-->> > had evolved in different directions and we > no longer shared common > >-->goals. > >-->> The > >-->> > Wag has gone to a good Jeep home and that > has eased the seperation > >-->> anxiety. > >-->> > I'm currently captivated by a $500 '78 > Cherokee Chief. I hope the > >-->next > >-->> 10 > >-->> > years are as good as the last 10. > >-->> > > >-->> > Ben Williams > >-->> > '71 Wagoneer - recently parted company > >-->> > '78 Cherokee Chief - excited about the > future, and no more guilt > >--> > > ---- > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** > http://freegift.net ** > Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't > rust, they mold. > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free! http://my.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 11:11:34 -0500 (EST) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Breaking up after 10 years together On Wed, 9 Feb 2005, Neal Hoover wrote: >-->lol! >-->i was talking about the engine swaps, etc.... like he said, he'll need both hands on the wheel... ;) john >-->;) >--> >-->Neal A. Hoover >-->Project '76 J-10 >-->Project '96 XJ >-->http://community.webshots.com/user/proj96xj >-->----- Original Message ----- >-->From: >-->To: ; >-->Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 12:23 AM >-->Subject: Re: Breaking up after 10 years together >--> >--> >-->> >-->> When I'm having fun with it I'll need both hands on the wheel and won't be >-->> taking pictures! But, I'll bet I could get someone else to do it for me >-->: ) >-->> >-->> Ben >-->> >-->> In a message dated 2/8/2005 8:42:38 PM Pacific Standard Time, >-->> proj96xj-at-bellsouth.net writes: >-->> >-->> i'm sure you will! >-->> just take pics, wouldja? >-->> ;) >-->> >-->> Neal A. Hoover >-->> Project '76 J-10 >-->> Project '96 XJ >-->> http://community.webshots.com/user/proj96xj >-->> ----- Original Message ----- >-->> From: >-->> To: ; >-->> Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 11:40 PM >-->> Subject: Re: Breaking up after 10 years together >-->> >-->> >-->> > >-->> > Not a chance! >-->> > I'll miss the reliability of the Wagoneer and I never got tired of >-->looking >-->> > at it, but I've wanted a nicely optioned Chief ever since they first >-->came >-->> out >-->> > with them. As soon as I find time, I know I'm going to have fun with >-->it. >-->> > >-->> > Ben >-->> > >-->> > In a message dated 2/8/2005 8:20:35 PM Pacific Standard Time, >-->> > proj96xj-at-bellsouth.net writes: >-->> > >-->> > lol! >-->> > but would you have it any other way? >-->> > ;) >-->> > >-->> > Neal A. Hoover >-->> > Project '76 J-10 >-->> > Project '96 XJ >-->> > http://community.webshots.com/user/proj96xj >-->> > ----- Original Message ----- >-->> > From: >-->> > To: ; >-->> > Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 11:13 PM >-->> > Subject: Re: Breaking up after 10 years together >-->> > >-->> > >-->> > > >-->> > > Actually, I'm not riding much at all : ) The Cherokee's >-->> > auto-exhaust-lubing >-->> > > rear main seal would double as barbecue starter. I've got a spare >-->360 >-->> > > waiting in the wings, but too many other "fires" to put out right >-->> now. >-->> > > >-->> > > Ben >-->> > > >-->> > > >-->> > > In a message dated 2/8/2005 8:03:49 PM Pacific Standard Time, >-->> > > proj96xj-at-bellsouth.net writes: >-->> > > >-->> > > what a bitter sweet ride you're having >-->> > > >-->> > > Neal A. Hoover >-->> > > Project '76 J-10 >-->> > > Project '96 XJ >-->> > > http://community.webshots.com/user/proj96xj >-->> > > ----- Original Message ----- >-->> > > From: >-->> > > To: >-->> > > Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 12:52 PM >-->> > > Subject: fsj: Breaking up after 10 years together >-->> > > >-->> > > >-->> > > > For those of you keeping track of this stuff, I've broken up with >-->my >-->> > '71 >-->> > > > Wagoneer. We had a good 10 years, but finally had to admit >-->that >-->> our >-->> > > interests >-->> > > > had evolved in different directions and we no longer shared >-->common >-->> > goals. >-->> > > The >-->> > > > Wag has gone to a good Jeep home and that has eased the >-->seperation >-->> > > anxiety. >-->> > > > I'm currently captivated by a $500 '78 Cherokee Chief. I hope >-->the >-->> > next >-->> > > 10 >-->> > > > years are as good as the last 10. >-->> > > > >-->> > > > Ben Williams >-->> > > > '71 Wagoneer - recently parted company >-->> > > > '78 Cherokee Chief - excited about the future, and no more >-->guilt >-->> > >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> >--> >--> >-->---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->-- >-->No virus found in this outgoing message. >-->Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >-->Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.6 - Release Date: 2/7/05 >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 11:17:29 -0500 (EST) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Breaking up after 10 years together On Wed, 9 Feb 2005 Brazzadog-at-aol.com wrote: >--> >--> >-->You really don't need a diesel to get good mileage, John. My '68 Catalina >-->has a 400 under the hood and gets 22 mpg on the highway : ) it's not highway mileage I need though... you've been to Seattle, you understand. ;) john >--> >-->Ben >--> >--> >--> >-->In a message dated 2/8/2005 11:04:55 PM Pacific Standard Time, >-->john-at-wagoneers.com writes: >--> >-->you know, I was tempted... I saw a '91 wagoneer for $1,500... and >-->the gears started turning... that 6.2L Diesel into it... yes, yes, >-->18, maybe 20mpg... in an FSJ... only problem would be the tailgate... >-->and of course finding the time to buy the engine hoist, and then >-->the bigger problem of finding the time to actually use it. ;) >--> >-->john >--> >--> >--> >--> >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 11:18:18 -0500 (EST) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: RE: [db] fuel economy? been tempted... still have this '83 GMC with the 6.2L here. ;) john On Wed, 9 Feb 2005, Brad Seevers wrote: >--> >-->The thing is, XJs are getting so cheap that you would >-->save so much on the purchase versus an Escape or >-->Liberty, you would be ahead moneywise overall for >-->about forever. Course, what you should do is buy a >-->couple more SJs! :) >--> >-->--- john wrote: >--> >-->> I kind of like the size of the RAV4s and the Ford >-->> Escapes... I drove >-->> an Escape in Missouri when I taught a class there... >-->> it was ok... if >-->> I got one cheap enough... but my mileage was only >-->> about 18 or so, not >-->> impressive. >-->> >-->> I looked at a KJ this morning... it was ok, not >-->> impressive... I'd >-->> rather get another XJ... looking at the numbers >-->> again... thinking... >-->> enjoying the 124... The KJ is 16/20, the XJ about >-->> the same, my >-->> '87 was 17/21... my 124 consistently gets 30+ in >-->> town... even >-->> with gas prices at 1.89 and Diesel at 2.23, it still >-->> makes sense >-->> to drive a 124 Diesel... >-->> >-->> If I ditched everything I had, got one XJ or KJ and >-->> drove it, >-->> with the savings/costs all factored in for fuel and >-->> insurance, assuming >-->> no car payment, meaning I'd be buying "very" used... >-->> then to drive a >-->> gas rig that got 18mpg would cost me about $300/yr >-->> MORE than having >-->> my 124, my Jimmy/Willys and eventually my J10. >-->> Insurance costs almost >-->> make this work... If Diesel were priced as it has >-->> been historically >-->> we wouldn't be having this conversation at all... >-->> >-->> So, at this point the 124 looks to be the best >-->> value... will sell >-->> the Jimmy as soon as the Willys is ready, then sell >-->> the willys >-->> as soon as the J10 is done... so, it looks like >-->> it'll be the >-->> 124, the WJ and the J10, with the J10 trailer... >-->> >-->> other thoughts are bound to occur... have to... >-->> otherwise >-->> Orville Redenbacher would have to intervene. ;) >-->> >-->> john >-->> >-->> On Tue, 8 Feb 2005, Alec Cordova wrote: >-->> >-->> >-->DC plans have changed. The Smart is not coming >-->> for at least another year or >-->> >-->two. >-->> >--> >-->> >-->According to a quick check on >-->> www.fueleconomy.gov, other than the Hybrid >-->> >-->Escape, the best mileage in what they list as >-->> the SUV Market Class is the >-->> >-->Subies. Subaru Forester and Outback AWD with >-->> flat 4 and automatic trannies >-->> >-->both rated at 22/28. Manuals rated a little >-->> higher. Behind the Subarus, The >-->> >-->Honda CR-V and Toyota RAV4, both with 4WD and >-->> automatics, are rated at >-->> >-->22/27. >-->> >--> >-->> >-->Just imagine what these things could get with a >-->> modern little diesel. I'm >-->> >-->thinking high 20s city, mid 30s highway? >-->> >--> >-->> >-->Alec >-->> >--> >-->> >-->> -----Original Message----- >-->> >-->> From: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net >-->> >-->> [mailto:owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net]On Behalf >-->> Of Mike Frank >-->> >-->> Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 5:46 AM >-->> >-->> To: diesel-benz list >-->> >-->> Subject: Re: [db] fuel economy? >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> If you wait until next year, Mercedes is >-->> planning to import an >-->> >-->> SUV version >-->> >-->> of the Smart car.... >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/91/super-size.html >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> Mike Frank >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> At 11:49 PM 2/7/2005, john wrote: >-->> >-->> >out of all the SUV's/AWD's... >-->> >-->> > with an automatic... >-->> >-->> > any make, or size... >-->> >-->> > >-->> >-->> >what are the most economical? >-->> >--> >-->> >-->> ---- >-->> >-->> >-->------------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->> ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** >-->> http://freegift.net ** >-->> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't >-->> rust, they mold. >-->> >-->------------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->> >--> >--> >--> >--> >-->Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search. Learn more. >-->http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 11:18:39 -0500 (EST) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Breaking up after 10 years together On Wed, 9 Feb 2005, Brad Seevers wrote: >-->I must have missed somehting here?? What is the >-->problem with the tailgate??? :) normal stuff... john >--> >-->--- john wrote: >--> >-->> you know, I was tempted... I saw a '91 wagoneer for >-->> $1,500... and >-->> the gears started turning... that 6.2L Diesel into >-->> it... yes, yes, >-->> 18, maybe 20mpg... in an FSJ... only problem would >-->> be the tailgate... >-->> and of course finding the time to buy the engine >-->> hoist, and then >-->> the bigger problem of finding the time to actually >-->> use it. ;) >-->> >-->> john >-->> >-->> On Tue, 8 Feb 2005 Brazzadog-at-aol.com wrote: >-->> >-->> >-->Not a chance! >-->> >-->I'll miss the reliability of the Wagoneer and I >-->> never got tired of looking >-->> >-->at it, but I've wanted a nicely optioned Chief >-->> ever since they first came out >-->> >-->with them. As soon as I find time, I know I'm >-->> going to have fun with it. >-->> >--> >-->> >-->Ben >-->> >--> >-->> >-->In a message dated 2/8/2005 8:20:35 PM Pacific >-->> Standard Time, >-->> >-->proj96xj-at-bellsouth.net writes: >-->> >--> >-->> >-->lol! >-->> >-->but would you have it any other way? >-->> >-->;) >-->> >--> >-->> >-->Neal A. Hoover >-->> >-->Project '76 J-10 >-->> >-->Project '96 XJ >-->> >-->http://community.webshots.com/user/proj96xj >-->> >-->----- Original Message ----- >-->> >-->From: >-->> >-->To: ; >-->> >-->Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 11:13 PM >-->> >-->Subject: Re: Breaking up after 10 years >-->> together >-->> >--> >-->> >--> >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> Actually, I'm not riding much at all : ) The >-->> Cherokee's >-->> >-->auto-exhaust-lubing >-->> >-->> rear main seal would double as barbecue >-->> starter. I've got a spare 360 >-->> >-->> waiting in the wings, but too many other >-->> "fires" to put out right now. >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> Ben >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> In a message dated 2/8/2005 8:03:49 PM >-->> Pacific Standard Time, >-->> >-->> proj96xj-at-bellsouth.net writes: >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> what a bitter sweet ride you're having >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> Neal A. Hoover >-->> >-->> Project '76 J-10 >-->> >-->> Project '96 XJ >-->> >-->> http://community.webshots.com/user/proj96xj >-->> >-->> ----- Original Message ----- >-->> >-->> From: >-->> >-->> To: >-->> >-->> Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 12:52 PM >-->> >-->> Subject: fsj: Breaking up after 10 years >-->> together >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> > For those of you keeping track of this >-->> stuff, I've broken up with my >-->> >-->'71 >-->> >-->> > Wagoneer. We had a good 10 years, but >-->> finally had to admit that our >-->> >-->> interests >-->> >-->> > had evolved in different directions and we >-->> no longer shared common >-->> >-->goals. >-->> >-->> The >-->> >-->> > Wag has gone to a good Jeep home and that >-->> has eased the seperation >-->> >-->> anxiety. >-->> >-->> > I'm currently captivated by a $500 '78 >-->> Cherokee Chief. I hope the >-->> >-->next >-->> >-->> 10 >-->> >-->> > years are as good as the last 10. >-->> >-->> > >-->> >-->> > Ben Williams >-->> >-->> > '71 Wagoneer - recently parted company >-->> >-->> > '78 Cherokee Chief - excited about the >-->> future, and no more guilt >-->> >--> >-->> >-->> ---- >-->> >-->> >-->------------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->> ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** >-->> http://freegift.net ** >-->> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't >-->> rust, they mold. >-->> >-->------------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free! >-->http://my.yahoo.com >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 11:23:42 EST From: Brazzadog-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: Re: Breaking up after 10 years together Good point. Seattle makes good argument for a gas/electric hybrid. Ben In a message dated 2/9/2005 8:17:47 AM Pacific Standard Time, john-at-wagoneers.com writes: >-->You really don't need a diesel to get good mileage, John. My '68 Catalina >-->has a 400 under the hood and gets 22 mpg on the highway : ) it's not highway mileage I need though... you've been to Seattle, you understand. ;) john ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 09:55:13 -0700 From: Matt Subject: fsj: Trying to track down some info on my new fsj I just purchased a 1986 Grand wagoneer with the amc 360. IT has a 3 speed auto and has a little slide on the dash for 2 or 4 wheel drive also hase a L on the auto transmission selector and the high low switch by the floor the thing i need to find is what transfer case this jeep would have the one in it is dead and i need to replace it but i dont have physical access to it at the moment so i cant check the part number? any ideas i would hate to get the wrong case and drive all the way up to it just to be stuck? Thanks, Matt ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 09:26:53 -0800 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: fsj: Re: Re: Breaking up after 10 years together Ditto propane electric. Using LPG to build electric power for the batteries as well as running a small gas powered engine so you can augment the electric (for hill climbs or heavy load situations) or vice versa. Something I don't see taken into account for is the heat produced by the electric motors. It seemed to be a topic that was quite in depth on the EV (electric vehicle) yahoo list I was on. Ben wrote: Good point. Seattle makes good argument for a gas/electric hybrid. Ben In a message dated 2/9/2005 8:17:47 AM Pacific Standard Time, john-at-wagoneers.com writes: >-->You really don't need a diesel to get good mileage, John. My '68 Catalina >-->has a 400 under the hood and gets 22 mpg on the highway : ) it's not highway mileage I need though... you've been to Seattle, you understand. ;) john ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #2360 **************************