From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Mon Mar 21 10:58:22 2005 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Monday, March 21 2005 Volume 01 : Number 2390 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: Re: Popcorn Re: fsj: Re: Popcorn fsj: the OM617 arrived... fsj: Re: xj: Re: the OM617 arrived... fsj: Re: the OM617 arrived... fsj: Re: 1966 Jeep Wagoneer for sale in Spokane, WA. (mine)Price reduced!!!!!! fsj: Re: Re: Popcorn fsj: Re: [db] Re: xj: Re: the OM617 arrived... FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2005 05:42:52 -0800 (PST) From: b_2187 Gash Subject: fsj: Re: Popcorn Hey, regarding the price of diesel, it will go down. The price always goes up in the winter time because fuel oil (very similar to diesel) is in high demand as people heat their homes. A diesel FSJ, that would be awesome! Make Yahoo! your home page ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2005 10:56:03 -0500 (EST) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Popcorn well if it doesn't, there is always vegetable oil and biodiesel. I think you're right, a Diesel FSJ would be awesome! I'm just wondering if I can get one that will be geared for acceleration, cruising, towing and economy. john On Sun, 20 Mar 2005, b_2187 Gash wrote: >-->Hey, regarding the price of diesel, it will go down. The price always goes up in the winter time because fuel oil (very similar to diesel) is in high demand as people heat their homes. A diesel FSJ, that would be awesome! >--> Make Yahoo! your home page >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2005 18:31:34 -0500 (EST) From: john Subject: fsj: the OM617 arrived... The '79 300SD arrived. It's not all that bad, but it does show it's age. My son will most certainly be interested, it's in better shape than his '83 300D. However, in talking with my wonderful bride it seems we're in agreement that if I can build an XJ Cherokee with a Diesel and sell off all my other rigs that both of us would be happy. I believe that an OM617 3.0L Turbo Diesel mated to an AW4 and the right gearing will get mid-20's in town, and still pull my trailer. The '79 300SD has a hitch . All I need to do is get my trailer back up out of the backyard, hitch it up and see if the 300SD can pull it. If it can, it's a done deal. If it can't, well that means I'll still need Superdawg. The OM617 in Superdawg is a nogo on two counts: 1) the extra 500lbs makes it less feasible 2) the J10 is less practical than an XJ. So, I need some help from my friends on the lists. (Hey, Carl, you in the neighborhood today? trailer is waiting... :) Concerning Superdawg, provided of course the XJ Diesel project goes forward and succeeds... What should be done to Superdawg? OPTIONS: 1) continue with the 4.0L customization 2) restore it to original 4.2/T5/original paint, etc. 3) drop a V8/AT into it. (maybe a WJ 4.7L) If the trailer test succeeds with the '79 300SD 3.0L TD and the J10 trailer, then it'll be feasible to tow with that engine in the XJ and Superdawg becomes superflous. I guess the real question is, WHAT will add the most value to SuperDawg so he can find a good home and I can pay off debts/projects, etc? I'll also be selling Shadowfax, the '91 300D as well... and of course the Willys and any other vehicles that I have I've misplaced. ;) So, question is, WHAT's the BEST thing to do to the '83 J10 Stepside? It has to be reassembled so any of the above options are feasible... 1) requires no additional parts, 2) requires no additional parts (except for rebuild kits for both engines) and 3 requires buying a whole new drivetrain and is less feasible... although having SuperDawg with a 4.7L and keeping him is tempting... but not practical. So, let's see how this plays out... popcorn ready? ;) pictures of the '79 300SD will be uploaded in a second to: http://JohnMeister.com/DieselBenz/CARS/79-300SD later, john ---- - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** http://JohnMeister.com ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 00:27:37 -0500 (EST) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: xj: Re: the OM617 arrived... I think Superdawg still has a very good chance of getting the 4.0L, mainly because I can't afford a 4.7 right now... and I doubt the 3.0L would push the J10 around with grace. Unless the overwhelming vote is to keep SuperDawg 100% stock in order to retain it's highest sale value, I think the 4.0L is still the best option. It's a Jeep engine and better than the 4.2L. I don't think it'll hurt it's value... but if the recommendation is to keep it original, then I'll go that route. If I decide to part with SuperDawg I'm going to do everything possible to get top dollar for him. I had him sold for $7,500 with a bad 4.2L, then I decided to go with the 4.0L... - ------------------------- I see a couple scenarios spinning out of this: 1) keep the '91 300d and the '83 J10 with the 4.0 2) build the 3.0L TD XJ and keep the '83 J10 with the 4.0 sell the '91 300d 3) build the 3.0L TD XJ and sell everything 4) build the 3.0L TD XJ and realize it's not good enough and keep the J10 and 300D. 5) find a suitable Diesel for an FSJ and build a GW Diesel and sell everything... I still believe the 4.0L is the best engine ever put in a Jeep. I'm really not sure what to do. I'd like to have one vehicle that does everything for me. I think I have realistic goals in the following objectives: 1) get 20-25mpg in town 2) carry 4 people 3) tow my trailer (or at least 2,500lbs) 4) look and ride nice 5) have creature comforts... in other words fully loaded 6) be capable of cruising for long trips comfortably. 7) must be 4x4, preferrably with full time My J10 will do 3 and 4 ( more or less), 6 ok, and 7. A stock XJ will do 2, 3, 4 and 5 reasonably well, and 7. A stock WJ will do 2, 3 (if my wife will permit), 4, 5 and 6 & 7. My '91 300D does better than #1, 2, 4, 5, and 6. It will be interesting to see what the '79 300SD does with my trailer... if it's capable of towing it, then I would extrapolate that my '91 300D could tow as well... maybe not 5,000lbs or anything, but if it could tow 2,000lbs then I could build or buy a lighter trailer... but it doesn't solve the 4x4 requirement. Unless of course I find a wrecked 4matic and put that driveline under the '91... Oh no... another idea... :) hold the line, I'm heading into the house for some popcorn. ;) john On Sun, 20 Mar 2005, Jesse Barbieri wrote: > -->John, > --> > --> I feel real bad now that you live across the country from me. I would go > -->for the 4.0 in Superdawg since it is most economical and the 4.0 has a > -->reputation for lasting FOREVER! > --> > -->Lets not forget my '87 4.0 that made it from Boston, ma to Copake, ny with > -->NO OIL! (i was not the driver) > --> > -->250+ miles > --> > --> > -->----- Original Message ----- From: "john" > -->To: "diesel-benz list" ; "xj-list" ; > -->"full size jeep list" ; > -->Cc: ; > -->Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2005 6:31 PM > -->Subject: xj: the OM617 arrived... > --> > --> > -->> The '79 300SD arrived. It's not all that bad, but it does > -->> show it's age. My son will most certainly be interested, it's > -->> in better shape than his '83 300D. > -->> > -->> However, in talking with my wonderful bride it seems we're in > -->> agreement that if I can build an XJ Cherokee with a Diesel > -->> and sell off all my other rigs that both of us would be happy. > -->> I believe that an OM617 3.0L Turbo Diesel mated to an AW4 and > -->> the right gearing will get mid-20's in town, and still pull > -->> my trailer. > -->> > -->> The '79 300SD has a hitch . All I need to do is > -->> get my trailer back up out of the backyard, hitch it up > -->> and see if the 300SD can pull it. If it can, it's a done > -->> deal. If it can't, well that means I'll still need Superdawg. > -->> > -->> The OM617 in Superdawg is a nogo on two counts: > -->> 1) the extra 500lbs makes it less feasible > -->> 2) the J10 is less practical than an XJ. > -->> > -->> So, I need some help from my friends on the lists. > -->> (Hey, Carl, you in the neighborhood today? > -->> trailer is waiting... :) > -->> > -->> Concerning Superdawg, provided of course the XJ Diesel > -->> project goes forward and succeeds... What should be done > -->> to Superdawg? > -->> > -->> OPTIONS: > -->> 1) continue with the 4.0L customization > -->> 2) restore it to original 4.2/T5/original paint, etc. > -->> 3) drop a V8/AT into it. (maybe a WJ 4.7L) > -->> > -->> If the trailer test succeeds with the '79 300SD 3.0L TD > -->> and the J10 trailer, then it'll be feasible to tow with that > -->> engine in the XJ and Superdawg becomes superflous. > -->> > -->> I guess the real question is, WHAT will add the most value > -->> to SuperDawg so he can find a good home and I can pay off > -->> debts/projects, etc? I'll also be selling Shadowfax, the > -->> '91 300D as well... and of course the Willys and any other > -->> vehicles that I have I've misplaced. ;) > -->> > -->> So, question is, WHAT's the BEST thing to do to the '83 J10 > -->> Stepside? It has to be reassembled so any of the above options > -->> are feasible... 1) requires no additional parts, 2) requires > -->> no additional parts (except for rebuild kits for both engines) > -->> and 3 requires buying a whole new drivetrain and is less feasible... > -->> although having SuperDawg with a 4.7L and keeping him is tempting... > -->> but not practical. > -->> > -->> So, let's see how this plays out... popcorn ready? ;) > -->> > -->> pictures of the '79 300SD will be uploaded in a second to: > -->> http://JohnMeister.com/DieselBenz/CARS/79-300SD > -->> > -->> later, > -->> john > -->> > -->> ---- > -->> > -->> > -->> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -->> ** http://wagoneers.com ** http://JohnMeister.com ** > -->> http://freegift.net ** > -->> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. > -->> > -->> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > --> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 01:50:47 -0500 (EST) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: the OM617 arrived... On Sun, 20 Mar 2005 Jeepbuilder-at-comcast.net wrote: >-->I have to vote for keeping the 4.0 in the J-10. >-->I don't have a lot of hope for #1, but won't rule it out completely. (#1 referring to 20-25mpg) #2 is probably not going to happen, not comfortably anyway. (#2 refers to sitting 4) I do think it will perform #3 thru #7 reasonably well. (the rest of the requirements) >--> >-->As far as scenarios, I say put me down for $1.00 on #4, #1, and #2. In that order. >-->What are the odds again? ;) >-->Just my opinion, I could be wrong. >-->Curtis well, I think you're disqualified from betting, seems you have a bit too much involvement. ;) And right now you are the only one can really make the J10 happen... A lot has happened since SuperDawg drove out with that 4.0L in the bed... when was that? April 2001? I eagerly await his return with the 4.0L under the hood this time. :) As I look at FSJs and XJs I'm missing the feel of the FSJ and the economy/nimbleness of the XJ. I'm hoping the 4.0L will give Superdawg the reliability and economy of an XJ. Having two extra passengers isn't a big requirement, hey, a canopy will work in a pinch. ;) - -------------------------------- I think #4 is a very likely scenario... well at least the >-->~4) build the 3.0L TD XJ and realize it's not good enough >-->~~and keep the J10 and 300D. part where the XJ is not good enough... I didn't get this rush of excitement running the '79 300SD up the hill... actually, I don't think the word "rush" and the '79 300SD really coincide. however, it was faster than the Ford Ranger and my '81 300D. THE real test will be if it can tow the trailer... then I'll weigh the 300SD and see how it compares to an XJ. I think that it might work with the right gearing... but the effort and time kind of takes the wind out of my sails because there is this nagging feeling that it won't be right. We've put a lot of research and thought into the 4.0L in SuperDawg. #1 is the most likely scenario when Mark finds out how nice >-->~1) keep the '91 300d and the '83 J10 with the 4.0 this '79 300SD is. :) That and the effort involved in building up the Diesel XJ. It'll take me about six months to do the project... but finding the time will be hard. But I'll make the time, just like I did when I did the '67 Wagoneer. I'd work on the Jeep until 2 or 3am, get up and work, come home take a quick nap and start all over again. I ran on 4 hours sleep for a long time. If I knew that SuperDawg was going to be completed in a few weeks or even months it would help decide what to do. I don't think we can make SuperDawg an economical daily driver unless we go Diesel, and that would probably make him underpowered and hard to drive in traffic... If I had a shorter commute, like the one I did when I started this project, then he'll be fine. But driving into Seattle changed the requirements and costs a lot. - -------------------------------- #2 is also a good plan. >-->~2) build the 3.0L TD XJ and keep the '83 J10 with the 4.0 >-->~~sell the '91 300d However, the biggest issue is those plans still leave us with three vehicles for two drivers. :( I doubt I'll convince my wife to drive either the '91 300d or the J10... but I'm working on it. It's unlikely she'll drive the XJ with a 3.0L either. But if we go that route then we'd have the Diesel XJ and the WJ. Two vehicles, two drivers. I like the idea of the J10 and the '91 300D and get rid of the WJ. My wife doesn't drive that often and both the J10 and the 300D will be fine. As far as the requirements. I'm not confident that a 3.0L XJ will get up into the mid-20's... hard to say without testing. My 2.1L TD averaged 26mpg in town, but that was with a 5spd. The '79 300SD was getting around 19mpg, but it's a heavy car without an overdrive. keep that popcorn a poppin'. ;) john >--> >-->= = = Original message = = = >--> >-->------------------------- >-->~1) keep the '91 300d and the '83 J10 with the 4.0 >--> >-->~2) build the 3.0L TD XJ and keep the '83 J10 with the 4.0 >-->~~sell the '91 300d >--> >-->~3) build the 3.0L TD XJ and sell everything >--> >-->~4) build the 3.0L TD XJ and realize it's not good enough >-->~~and keep the J10 and 300D. >--> >-->~5) find a suitable Diesel for an FSJ and build a GW >-->~~Diesel and sell everything... >--> >-->I still believe the 4.0L is the best engine ever put in a Jeep. >--> >-->I'm really not sure what to do. I'd like to have one vehicle >-->that does everything for me. >--> >-->I think I have realistic goals in the following objectives: >-->~1) get 20-25mpg in town >-->~2) carry 4 people >-->~3) tow my trailer (or at least 2,500lbs) >-->~4) look and ride nice >-->~5) have creature comforts... in other words fully loaded >-->~6) be capable of cruising for long trips comfortably. >-->~7) must be 4x4, preferrably with full time >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 01:24:03 -0800 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: fsj: Re: 1966 Jeep Wagoneer for sale in Spokane, WA. (mine)Price reduced!!!!!! A: email Jamey below for more info. From: oconner_us-at-yahoo.com Subject: Re: 1966 Jeep Wagoneer for sale in Spokane, WA. (mine)Price reduced!!!!!! To: mail-at-amc-list.com Message-ID: 1966 Jeep Wagoneer.Color is white. Originally had 327 V-8 but it had a spun bearing. I have a 350 Buick motor out of a 1968 Wagoneer to put in it. Just need to re-drill the frame to install the motor mounts and put the motor in. Interior is in pretty bad shape. Has a pretty big dent in the tailgate. Has a heavy duty front bumper and grill guard. Has been set up for a snowplow (I do not have the snow plow or controls). All glass is good and the rest of the body is in good shape. The guy I got it from said the transmission and transfer case had been rebuilt not long before the bearing spun. Will need brake work. Nice Solid body. Would be a great project or just install the motor, do the brakes and put some decent seats in it and it would be a good driver. I just don't have time to do anything with and have too many vehicles and need room. We found out today that my dad is inherited my grandfathers 2 farm tractors since he is going into a nursing home. Gotta get the jeep out of! the way and make room for one of the tractors (other tractor is going somewhere else). We are expecting to go get the tractors in about 2 to 3 weeks so the jeep has to be gone no later than april may 1st. Email me if interested. Price reduced to $200 ( I have about $350 into it). I am located on the lower Spokane south hill. Jamie Smith Spokane, WA. Oconner51-at-hotmail.com 1966 Rambler American 220 Station Wagon 1966 Rambler Classic 770 2 Door Hardtop 1966 Jeep Wagoneer (For Sale) 1977 GMC Sierra 3/4 ton pickup 1986 AMC Eagle Station Wagon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 02:08:38 -0800 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: fsj: Re: Re: Popcorn Problem is that China and India are hitting the revolution evolution industrialization pretty hard and they are tapping 500% more than they were just 3 years ago. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 10:53:54 -0500 (EST) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: [db] Re: xj: Re: the OM617 arrived... On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 acordova-at-texas.net wrote: >-->Couple things to remember about the Benzes: >--> >-->OM617 turbodiesels currently exist in a very wide variety of tuning levels. >-->Not all of them put out full rated boost or enough fuel to take advantage of >-->it, both of which can be adjusted. So you may be able to get more power out >-->of the 300SD's motor by way of simple adjustments. Now this was a question I was going to ask. What makes one engine put out more power than the other? Any info on the adjustments? >-->The 4Matic system was never available with a diesel. As I understand it, part >-->of the front driveline coexisted in space and time with the oil pan. In fact, >-->the M104 DOHC gas sixer used in the early-mid 90s was never adapted for >-->4Matic, probably due to height issues. Only the M103 SOHC gas sixer and the >-->later V6 got the 4Matic option. I believe it's available in Europe... besides, if it's only an oil pan issue there are ways of making that work. :) >-->As for Superdawg, my vote is for the 4.0L. Then sell it before you get too >-->attached. >-->Alec :) we'll see... we'll see... waiting for 4 years is starting to make me even crazier than I already am. I think the J10 is what I really want... years of experimenation and research... but 4 years and a wife that doesn't like it are working against it... The Diesel XJ makes more sense on a number of levels. Especially if I can tweak this OM617 a bit. john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #2390 **************************