From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Wed Mar 23 16:24:38 2005 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Wednesday, March 23 2005 Volume 01 : Number 2394 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: Chilton's Manual Re: fsj: Chilton's Vehicle Library Re: fsj: Chilton's Manual Re: fsj: thoughts and calculations on the Diesel XJ project Re: [FSJ-List] Re: fsj: RE: Re: More engine issues....:-( help pl ease fsj: Jim in Seatle RE: fsj: Chilton's Manual Re: fsj: Chilton's Vehicle Library Re: fsj: Chilton's Vehicle Library Re: fsj: thoughts and calculations on the Diesel XJ project Re: [FSJ-List] Re: fsj: RE: Re: More engine issues....:-( help pl ease Re: [FSJ-List] Re: fsj: RE: Re: More engine issues....:-( help pl ease FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 13:36:22 -0600 From: "Brundage, Robert G" Subject: fsj: Chilton's Manual Guys: Thanks for your responses. My choices are: Wagoneer - 1957-1990 J-Series Truck - 1957-1983 Jeepster - 1957-1983 FC-170 - 1957-1983 FC-150 - 1957-1983 Cherokee - 1957-1998 CJ - 1945-1986 What would be the best match to a 1984 Grand Wagoneer? Robert Brundage GIS Coordinator Department Public Works Fort Campbell, KY PH: 270-798-9571 FAX: 270-798-2232 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 14:37:54 -0500 (EST) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Chilton's Vehicle Library yes, thank you... busy... server was down again, catching up on mail. :) john On Wed, 23 Mar 2005, Dan Black wrote: >-->John's right, but not as clear as he normally is... Must be in a hurry. >--> >-->To clarify, the SJ Grand Wagoneers ran from '84 through '91 (plus those >-->four 1992s -- yes, that's precisely _four_ 1992 SJ individual >-->vehicles). The '93 Grand Wagoneer is a trim package on the Grand >-->Cherokee (ZJ). So if you see a ZJ with wood paneling, likely it's a '93 >-->and has a "Grand Wagoneer" emblem. >--> >-->The vehicle most like yours would be... probably the '85 SJ. ;) >-->(Except for the 85 vs 100 mph speedometer.) Seriously, even >-->engine-wise, the normal Grand Wagoneers had several differences from any >-->other Jeep models of those years, so if your CD doesn't cover any of the >-->SJs, you're probably SOL. The SJs include the 1963-1983 Wagoneers or >-->Cherokees and the 1984-1991 Grand Wagoneers. (Also some J-trucks and >-->stuff; someone else can give you a more complete list.) 1984 is the >-->magic year when the Wagoneers and Cherokees became little XJs, and the >-->SJs got the new term "Grand Wagoneer". >--> >-->So does that make things better or worse for clarity? ;) >--> >-->john said: >-->{- yes, you're rigth, 1991 is the last year, >-->{- although there were 4 1992's built. >-->{- >-->{- >-->{- The CD is for the ZJ model, not the SJ. >-->{- >-->{- >-->{- 1963-1991 SJ >-->{- 1993-1998 ZJ (bad) >-->{- 1999-2004 WJ (good) >-->{- 2005- WK (bad) >-->{- >-->{- my opninion, >-->{- john >-->{- >-->{- >-->{- On Wed, 23 Mar 2005, Matt wrote: >-->{- >-->{- >-->The 1993 Grand Wagooneer? Unless i am wrong last real fsj was in 1991? >-->{- >--> >-->{- >--> >-->{- >-->On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 12:35:46 -0600, Brundage, Robert G >-->{- >--> wrote: >-->{- >-->> Hey out there: >-->{- >-->> >-->{- >-->> I just purchased a CD of Chilton manuals. >-->{- >-->> >-->{- >-->> I come to find out that the CD does not cover my 1984 Grand Wagoneer. >-->{- >-->> >-->{- >-->> The manual covers the 1993 Grand Wagoneer. >-->{- >-->> >-->{- >-->> The manual covers all years of the regular Wagoneer. >-->{- >-->> >-->{- >-->> The manual also covers just about every year of every other jeep vehic >-->{- le. >-->{- >-->> >-->{- >-->> My question is: >-->{- >-->> >-->{- >-->> What vehicle would be most like my 1984 Grand Wagoneer? >-->{- >-->> >-->{- >-->> Robert Brundage >-->{- >-->> >-->{- >-->> GIS Coordinator >-->{- >-->> >-->{- >-->> Department Public Works >-->{- >-->> >-->{- >-->> Fort Campbell, KY >-->{- >-->> >-->{- >-->> PH: 270-798-9571 >-->{- >-->> >-->{- >-->> FAX: 270-798-2232 >-->{- >--> >-->{- >-->{- ---- >-->{- >-->{- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->{- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** >-->{- Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. >-->{- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->{- >-->------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >--> If we ever get the warning that nuclear bombs are headed our way, I'm >--> going to coat myself with Shake & Bake mix. That way, when everyone >--> else is burned to a crisp, I'll be tender, plump, and juicy. >--> >--> -- Russ Mason >-->-------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 14:40:42 -0500 (EST) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Chilton's Manual Wagoneer 1957???? huh? J-series 1957??? that should be 1962 or 63. ;) Willys from 47?-64 or so. cherokee 1974-1983... man those dates are all wrong... see wagoneers.com for model designators... under JEEPS or FSJ. john On Wed, 23 Mar 2005, Brundage, Robert G wrote: >-->Guys: >--> >-->Thanks for your responses. >--> >-->My choices are: >--> >-->Wagoneer - 1957-1990 >--> >-->J-Series Truck - 1957-1983 >--> >-->Jeepster - 1957-1983 >--> >-->FC-170 - 1957-1983 >--> >-->FC-150 - 1957-1983 >--> >-->Cherokee - 1957-1998 >--> >-->CJ - 1945-1986 >--> >--> >--> >-->What would be the best match to a 1984 Grand Wagoneer? >--> >--> >--> >-->Robert Brundage >--> >-->GIS Coordinator >--> >-->Department Public Works >--> >-->Fort Campbell, KY >--> >-->PH: 270-798-9571 >--> >-->FAX: 270-798-2232 >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 11:48:02 -0800 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: Re: fsj: thoughts and calculations on the Diesel XJ project A: To see how a Jeep would handle, find someone nearby with a diesel Scout and test drive it. Compare the figures and ratios/tires and torque curves to see how to adjust it. Another thing to toss into the mix is how about the trans from a diesel Mercedes 4x4? I don't know what Tcase they use, but it may be NV related since MB owns Jeep now. From: john meister Subject: fsj: thoughts and calculations on the Diesel XJ project To Diesel an XJ or not... or just repair the '79 300SD and sell it or just part it out? Time... money... feasibility. My dream is to have another Diesel Jeep. Ultimately an FSJ would be my first pick, but an XJ is a close 2nd. I had an '85 XJ with the 2.1L TD and loved it... but hated it's 5 speed manual transmission. I think that if it had an automatic I'd still have it. But I digress... Funny how the flyer from Harbor Freight showed up today and has BOTH the porta-power 10ton hydraulic ram AND the collapsible shop crane BOTH on sale. The ram is about $110, the crane about $150. But I recall seeing a shop crane at pep boys for around $110. So that's NO help... fix or part, costs are about the same. ;) I think the prevailing enthusiasm is for the building of the Diesel XJ. I have folks interested in the vast majority of parts I won't be using from the 300SD already! Amazing. Sounds like the problems are working themselves out. Even my wife likes the idea of me having another Diesel XJ. If I could get the XJ to average at least 25mpg on my commute it'll displace my '91 300D as my daily driver, which is the ultimate goal... ONE vehicle, ONE driver. That means I have to get the trailer out of the back yard, connect it to the 300SD and do some time trials to see how it'll do, with and without the trailer. I suspect that the engine could use a new timing chain, valve adjustment and possibly some turbo/Alda adjustments to get it all dialed in. The engine appears to be doing quite well despite some 241,000 miles. It didn't seem as snappy as my '91 2.5L TD (which has over 204,000 miles on it), but it pulled steadily heading up the hill. The engine has a lot of potential and is easy to work on. Ok, so, let's pretend that the 3.0L Turbo Diesel is able to pull the '75 J10 trailer empty at 2,000lbs. And, let's go further and say that it'll pull a yard of gravel in the trailer as well. Say around 4,500lbs. Then it'll have the power to propel a Jeep Cherokee (XJ) without problems. Especially considering that a stock Jeep Cherokee weighs slightly less than the '79 300SD. I really need to get the trailer (and the Jimmy) out of the backyard... man I need a Jeep. :) Anyway, if it passes the power test, then we move on to the gearing tests... see below (it passes). The '79 300SD has 3.07 gears and a 1:1 final gear, max rpm on the engine is 4,350 rpm. It's max hp is 110hp -at- 4,200rpm, max torque of 170 ftlbs at 2,400rpm. The way the '79 300SD is setup it has a max speed of 103mph. Ideally you set your RPM for normal highway cruising speeds. When this car was built the double nickel afflicted the continental USA. Looking at my spreadsheet I see that 56.98mph is what the big Benz was turning at that speed (2,400 rpm). (my '91 300D spins around 2,500 rpm at 65 mph, of course it's top speed is 124 mph, sure wish I could get it on the Autobahn...) The spreadsheet extract below is quite encouraging. Moving over in the columns below to "B", we see that if I used the straight Mercedes automatic transmission with it's final 1:1 ratio, Jeep stock gears of 3.55 or even upgraded to 4.10's, using 31" tires the max torque speed would be closer to 60mph, an improvement. And if I used 4.10's, the speed at max torque would drop to 53 mph. Meaning w/o an overdrive I'd be spinning up faster. With the Aisin Warner 30-80 LE 4 speed automatic and a 0.75:1 final gear, max torque speed for cruising with 31's jumps up to 81 or 70. Of course the theoretical top speed would not be realized because of the brick like aerodynamics of the XJ. But around Seattle if you're able to do the speed limit you won't be for long or it's late at night. However, this means if I go use the AW4 with 31" tires and 4.10's I'll have an optimum highway cruising speed for economy of 70 mph, and I'll have plenty of off the line grunt as well. But it will also involve developing a computer for shifting the AW4 and an adapater ring... and possible issues with a starter and the torque converter. If I used the Mercedes transmission and make an adapter to mate to a Jeep transfer case then I lose the overdrive but reduce complexity. I'm wondering, after viewing these numbers, if this engine would not work well in SuperDawg. The weight test with the '79 300SD should validate it. It almost looks as though using the Mercedes automatic with a divorced transfer case, 31" tires and the stock (typical) gears on an XJ of 3.55's will match the original 300SD specs pretty closely, but still give me a higher speed for max torque. One of the things I noticed with my previous 300SD was that it was spun up pretty tight on the freeway cruising at 75mph. Of course at 75mph loaded with FSJ parts and three passengers it still got over 28mpg! My '83 300SD routinely gave me 26 mpg in town and closer to 30mpg on the freeway when I kept my speed down. Extract from the spreadsheet: - - --------------------------------- columns - description A - STOCK '79 300SD 3.07 gears, 24.5" tires B - NO overdrive 1:1 - using Benz tranny, 31" tires either 3.55 or 4.10 gears C - OVERDRIVE VALUES ^V 0.25 - same as B but with AW4 transmission. OVERDRIVE Gears: 3.07 3.55 4.10 3.55 4.10 Tires: 24.50 30.50 30.50 30.50 30.50 tach mph mph mph mph mph A B B C C 1800 42.74 46.01 39.84 61.34 53.11 2000 47.48 51.12 44.26 68.16 59.02 2200 52.23 56.23 48.69 74.98 64.92 2400 56.98 61.34 53.11 81.79 70.82 2600 61.73 66.46 57.54 88.61 76.72 4350 103.28 111.19 96.27 148.25 128.36 3.55's, 31" tires, Mercedes 3.0L Turbo Diesel (OM 617) with it's automatic mated to any Jeep NP xfr case looks like a pretty good combination... only one adapter to make and hopefully minimal driveshaft modification. The Jeep will require at least 3", maybe 4" of lift to clear the oil pan by the front axle. This is looking pretty good... now, all I need is a used XJ that's clean, straight, loaded and has a bad engine or trans and a couple of months to do the swap... I wonder if I'll have the Diesel XJ built before my J10 is completed. The race is on... ??? yeah, right... we'll see... I may have to go to Holland in two weeks, still have to do my taxes, and I still need to get my trailer out of the back yard. ;) Btw, it appears that both wagoneers.com and JohnMeister.com are both down again. I haven't been able to access my wagoneers.com email all day long. I'm thinking about setting up JohnMeister.com on my cable connection here and just keeping it small and using it for email. Anyone with expertise in that area is welcome to contact me off list on the how to, uh, just don't try to email me at wagoneers.com right now. ;) Talked to my son today about his 460 Javelin project... it seems he's having trouble fitting it in the car. Hmm. Wonder why that could be. I wonder. :) Funny how he hasn't shown the least bit of interest in my "new" Mercedes 300SD... which is a good thing, keeps this from getting overly complex. :) john ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 11:59:05 -0800 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: Re: [FSJ-List] Re: fsj: RE: Re: More engine issues....:-( help pl ease A: Back to the PO thing (stands for previous owner, but in this case, something else as well! LOL!) It is also possible the PO may have replaced the power valve with a solid plug (racers do that) From: Matt Subject: Re: [FSJ-List] Re: fsj: RE: Re: More engine issues....:-( help pl ease Well even I failed Emissions with a High CO so maybe it will help on that i figure it cant hurt to repalce the cto and get all those dang vac hooked up like they should be. I don't seem to have a cloud of black smoke or much buildup at the tail pipe though? Does anyone know what temp this cto would be i know there are several 3 port cto's 3-port yellow/white 155 deg or 3-port red 220 deg Thanks again. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 14:12:50 -0600 From: "Brundage, Robert G" Subject: fsj: Jim in Seatle Jim: I wrote down your telephone number wrong. Could you email it to me or call again? Robert.g.brundage-at-us.army.mil Robert Brundage GIS Coordinator Department Public Works Fort Campbell, KY PH: 270-798-9571 FAX: 270-798-2232 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 15:37:53 -0500 (EST) From: john Subject: RE: fsj: Chilton's Manual you've got an SJ model, aka Grand Wagoneer... J-series model. john On Wed, 23 Mar 2005, Brundage, Robert G wrote: >-->John: >-->Ignore the dates that are wrong (it is just a computer list). >-->Can you tell me which and what year vehicle would most resemble my 1984 >-->Grand Wagoneer. >--> >-->Thanks. >--> >-->Robert Brundage >-->GIS Coordinator >-->Department Public Works >-->Fort Campbell, KY >-->PH: 270-798-9571 >-->FAX: 270-798-2232 >--> >--> >-->-----Original Message----- >-->From: john [mailto:john-at-wagoneers.com] >-->Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 1:41 PM >-->To: Brundage, Robert G >-->Cc: fsj-at-digest.net >-->Subject: Re: fsj: Chilton's Manual >--> >-->Wagoneer 1957???? huh? >-->J-series 1957??? >--> >-->that should be 1962 or 63. ;) >--> >-->Willys from 47?-64 or so. >--> >-->cherokee 1974-1983... >--> >-->man those dates are all wrong... >--> >-->see wagoneers.com for model designators... under JEEPS or FSJ. >-->john >--> >--> >-->On Wed, 23 Mar 2005, Brundage, Robert G wrote: >--> >-->>-->Guys: >-->>--> >-->>-->Thanks for your responses. >-->>--> >-->>-->My choices are: >-->>--> >-->>-->Wagoneer - 1957-1990 >-->>--> >-->>-->J-Series Truck - 1957-1983 >-->>--> >-->>-->Jeepster - 1957-1983 >-->>--> >-->>-->FC-170 - 1957-1983 >-->>--> >-->>-->FC-150 - 1957-1983 >-->>--> >-->>-->Cherokee - 1957-1998 >-->>--> >-->>-->CJ - 1945-1986 >-->>--> >-->>--> >-->>--> >-->>-->What would be the best match to a 1984 Grand Wagoneer? >-->>--> >-->>--> >-->>--> >-->>-->Robert Brundage >-->>--> >-->>-->GIS Coordinator >-->>--> >-->>-->Department Public Works >-->>--> >-->>-->Fort Campbell, KY >-->>--> >-->>-->PH: 270-798-9571 >-->>--> >-->>-->FAX: 270-798-2232 >-->>--> >--> >--> ---- >--> >-->------------------------------------------------------------------------- >--> ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** >--> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. >-->------------------------------------------------------------------------- >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 12:49:48 -0800 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: Re: fsj: Chilton's Vehicle Library A: I explained to Bob the vehicle most like his (on that CD) is the '81 to '83 Cherokee or Wagoneer ltd 4 dr with 360 motor. '85 started changing the wiring and emissions around somewhat, but is bascially the same as well. ('80 is a lot like it, but has a different transfercase) The CD has hidden tracks that you have to contact Chilton's to get the access for (it cost me $10 but I never got around to it and sold my copy of the CD on Ebay) From: Dan Black Subject: Re: fsj: Chilton's Vehicle Library John's right, but not as clear as he normally is... Must be in a hurry. To clarify, the SJ Grand Wagoneers ran from '84 through '91 (plus those four 1992s -- yes, that's precisely _four_ 1992 SJ individual vehicles). The '93 Grand Wagoneer is a trim package on the Grand Cherokee (ZJ). So if you see a ZJ with wood paneling, likely it's a '93 and has a "Grand Wagoneer" emblem. The vehicle most like yours would be... probably the '85 SJ. ;) (Except for the 85 vs 100 mph speedometer.) Seriously, even engine-wise, the normal Grand Wagoneers had several differences from any other Jeep models of those years, so if your CD doesn't cover any of the SJs, you're probably SOL. The SJs include the 1963-1983 Wagoneers or Cherokees and the 1984-1991 Grand Wagoneers. (Also some J-trucks and stuff; someone else can give you a more complete list.) 1984 is the magic year when the Wagoneers and Cherokees became little XJs, and the SJs got the new term "Grand Wagoneer". So does that make things better or worse for clarity? ;) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 13:02:37 -0800 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: Re: fsj: Chilton's Vehicle Library A: I called Bob directly and explained to him what the likely problem is. (bad hoses and/or corroded vacuum shifter pots) I also explained about making sure his front axle was engaged before putting it in 4x4 and how to bypass the vacuum front axle. http://oljeep.com/gw/vac/GW_vacuum.html is the link to the diagrams. Anyone have the '86 up transfercase diagram? That would be the way to hook the lines up (motor to vacuum ball, ball to switch and 2 lines from the switch to transfercase to engage or disengage 4x4 only) with the front axle permanently engaged. Then the spring loaded pin on the switch can be removed and the truck will become shift on the fly, like later models. From: "Brundage, Robert G" Subject: fsj: Chilton's Vehicle Library Hey out there: I just purchased a CD of Chilton manuals. I come to find out that the CD does not cover my 1984 Grand Wagoneer. The manual covers the 1993 Grand Wagoneer. The manual covers all years of the regular Wagoneer. The manual also covers just about every year of every other jeep vehicle. My question is: What vehicle would be most like my 1984 Grand Wagoneer? Robert Brundage ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 13:07:01 -0800 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: Re: fsj: thoughts and calculations on the Diesel XJ project A: I put out some queries to see what auto trans the diesel Mercedes SUVs run (buddy in Canada is trying to find out) Even in an FSJ, the separate tcase setup would be very long. I would suggest a modified NP208 or D20 divorced unit. If you go D20, there is a 3.15:1 low range kit so you can keep higher geared axles. I'm sure a Mercedes AT/XFR case would be pricey and most likely gas. but it's a thought. Mating the exiting benz tranny to an xfr case will not be a major challenge. Finding and paying for a Benz setup will be. ;) john On Wed, 23 Mar 2005, Jim Blair wrote: >-->A: To see how a Jeep would handle, find someone nearby with a diesel >Scout >-->and test drive it. Compare the figures and ratios/tires and torque >curves to >-->see how to adjust it. Another thing to toss into the mix is how about >the >-->trans from a diesel Mercedes 4x4? I don't know what Tcase they use, but >it >-->may be NV related since MB owns Jeep now. >--> >--> >-->From: john meister >-->Subject: fsj: thoughts and calculations on the Diesel XJ project >--> >-->To Diesel an XJ or not... or just repair the '79 300SD and sell it or >just >-->part it out? ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 14:11:01 -0700 From: Matt Subject: Re: [FSJ-List] Re: fsj: RE: Re: More engine issues....:-( help pl ease If it was a solid Plug would it still have a vacuum port on it? On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 11:59:05 -0800, Jim Blair wrote: > A: Back to the PO thing (stands for previous owner, but in this case, > something else as well! LOL!) It is also possible the PO may have replaced > the power valve with a solid plug (racers do that) > > > From: Matt > Subject: Re: [FSJ-List] Re: fsj: RE: Re: More engine issues....:-( help pl > ease > > Well even I failed Emissions with a High CO so maybe it will help on > that i figure it cant hurt to repalce the cto and get all those dang > vac hooked up like they should be. I don't seem to have a cloud of > black smoke or much buildup at the tail pipe though? > > Does anyone know what temp this cto would be i know there are several > 3 port cto's > 3-port yellow/white 155 deg > > or > > 3-port red 220 deg > > Thanks again. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 13:22:26 -0800 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: Re: [FSJ-List] Re: fsj: RE: Re: More engine issues....:-( help pl ease A: The plug is under the cover with the vacuum port, where the power valve normally goes. If it was a solid Plug would it still have a vacuum port on it? On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 11:59:05 -0800, Jim Blair wrote: > A: Back to the PO thing (stands for previous owner, but in this case, > something else as well! LOL!) It is also possible the PO may have replaced > the power valve with a solid plug (racers do that) > > > From: Matt > Subject: Re: [FSJ-List] Re: fsj: RE: Re: More engine issues....:-( help pl > ease > > Well even I failed Emissions with a High CO so maybe it will help on > that i figure it cant hurt to repalce the cto and get all those dang > vac hooked up like they should be. I don't seem to have a cloud of > black smoke or much buildup at the tail pipe though? > > Does anyone know what temp this cto would be i know there are several > 3 port cto's > 3-port yellow/white 155 deg > > or > > 3-port red 220 deg > > Thanks again. ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #2394 **************************