From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Thu Mar 24 14:33:21 2005 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Thursday, March 24 2005 Volume 01 : Number 2395 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: fsj: Chilton's Vehicle Library fsj: Nosie in Park Re: fsj: Nosie in Park Re: fsj: Re: xj: Re: the OM617 arrived... fsj: transfer cases, mercedes style... fsj: Re: New York Auto Show: 2006 Jeep Commander - Autoblog - www.autoblog.com fsj: free at last... let the time trials begin! Re: fsj: Re: New York Auto Show: 2006 Jeep Commander - Autoblog - www.autoblog.com Re: fsj: Re: xj: Re: the OM617 arrived... Re: fsj: Re: New York Auto Show: 2006 Jeep Commander - Autoblog - www.autoblog.com Re: fsj: Re: xj: Re: the OM617 arrived... fsj: Grand Commander? fsj: Re: Grand Commander? fsj: Re: [db] transfer cases, mercedes style... Re: fsj: Grand Commander? fsj: Re: xj: Am I reading something you guys aren't ?? FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 17:27:00 CST From: Dan Black Subject: Re: fsj: Chilton's Vehicle Library "Jim Blair" said: {- A: I explained to Bob the vehicle most like his (on that CD) is the '81 to {- '83 Cherokee or Wagoneer ltd 4 dr with 360 motor. '85 started changing the {- wiring and emissions around somewhat, but is bascially the same as well. {- ('80 is a lot like it, but has a different transfercase) Knowing the years available on the CD now, that's basically what I would've said, except more detailed than what I knew. So yeah, I second what Jim said. The engine and tranny especially should be pretty close. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Students. If we could just get rid of all the students. -- Mr. Beach - -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 18:55:32 -0600 From: Jay Olive Subject: fsj: Nosie in Park Hello everyone - been away from the list for or 5 years. Daughters drove the Jeep - now I'm back to fixing it up. Question - after it warms up I get a ratting noise - seems like it is coming from the timing cover area. In neutral or in gear it goes away. Almost sounds like a loose ball bearing. Any ideas? It's been that way for years but seems to be getting a little louder. Thanks! Jay 89 GW ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 20:29:13 -0500 (EST) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Nosie in Park it only does it in park? the parking pawl/lock? Does the jeep roll if in park? does it go into reverse ok? any tranny slippage? in gear or even neutral it's ok? did you check the shifter linkage to see if it's rattling around or hitting something? john On Wed, 23 Mar 2005, Jay Olive wrote: > -->Hello everyone - been away from the list for or 5 years. Daughters drove > -->the Jeep - now I'm back to fixing it up. > --> > -->Question - after it warms up I get a ratting noise - seems like it is > -->coming from the timing cover area. In neutral or in gear it goes away. > -->Almost sounds like a loose ball bearing. > --> > -->Any ideas? It's been that way for years but seems to be getting a little > -->louder. > --> > -->Thanks! > -->Jay > -->89 GW > --> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 21:30:12 -0500 (EST) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Re: xj: Re: the OM617 arrived... On Tue, 22 Mar 2005, Mike Dillon wrote: >-->John, >--> I thought I was bad, for leaving stuff ripped up for way to long. On >-->the J-10 sounds like the time has passed >-->where it is practical in your life. If you can afford toys on the side, >-->finish it with the 4.0 or stroke the 4.0 and >-->put the darn thing back together, otherwise eat your loss sell it as a >-->kit and move on. As far as you other thoughts >-->if you want a oil burner SUV, go find a 6.5 Chev/GMC SUV and buy it, I >-->find swapping motors and playing in the >-->shop is fun, but I have never found an engine swap to be a practical >-->economical thing to do, fun yes, $ wise a loser. >--> Let me know when the supper kit comes on the market. >--> >-->Mike D. >--> >-->PS didn't Jeep build some oil burner XJ's ? yep. I had one... an '85 xj with a 2.1L TD. john >-->>End of fsj-digest V1 #2390 >-->>************************** ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 01:07:06 -0500 (EST) From: john Subject: fsj: transfer cases, mercedes style... just a quick, random thought... what are the options for Mercedes Benz transfer cases? On most american transmissions you can change the output shaft/tail section and get the adapter to mate to a transfer case... does that option exist for a mercedes automatic? :) rats... I forgot to try and drive the Jimmy out of the back yard tonight... oh wait, I was stuck in the datacenter trying to get a dell server to work with SUSE Linux... well, need to take the garbage up... hmmm it's only 10pm, maybe I'll see if I can get the Jimmy out now. :) john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 01:33:35 -0500 (EST) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: New York Auto Show: 2006 Jeep Commander - Autoblog - www.autoblog.com On Wed, 23 Mar 2005, Jim Blair wrote: http://www.autoblog.com/entry/1234000933037333/ what is it with these writers? where are the SPECS???? john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 02:10:55 -0500 (EST) From: john Subject: fsj: free at last... let the time trials begin! what do you call the first sunny day after two days of rain in Seattle? monday of course... and since it's now wednesday and it hasn't rained since the weekend because of our drought... I decided to see if I could get the Jimmy and trailer out of the back yard now that it's drier... I had to take the garbage up anyway... no matter it was 10:30pm... the 6.2L Diesel isn't THAT noisey... no trees were injured and I made it on the first try... :) So, tomorrow night (after the chiropractor visit from pushing the trailer around to get it hitched up tonight), I'll commence the '79 300SD time trials, with and without the J10 trailer... If it passes, the parting of the '79 300SD commences on Saturday... then we will let the feeding frenzy commence. I have a few cheap XJ's to look at in the next couple of days as well... not sure why this seems like such a good idea... ;) btw, my son finally got the 460 into the Javelin. I think he found another Sawzall... (not kidding either) later, john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 08:22:58 CST From: Dan Black Subject: Re: fsj: Re: New York Auto Show: 2006 Jeep Commander - Autoblog - www.autoblog.com john said: {- On Wed, 23 Mar 2005, Jim Blair wrote: {- http://www.autoblog.com/entry/1234000933037333/ {- {- what is it with these writers? where are the SPECS???? Well, you COULD go to the Jeep site and look... Just an idea. (Links below.) Still not all the specs you're looking for, but a good start. And lots of good, much more professional pictures (with larger versions of a lot of them). Plus info on the new SRT version of the GChero, plus a little on the concept vehicles... Gladiator, you'll like, like a cross between a Wrangler and an old Jeepster pickup. Looks awesome for trails and stuff. Hurricane is like the recent Jeepster concept... on steroids. And that's designed to be a true rock crawler. Has TWO engines, both 5.7L HEMIs, each with 335hp and 370lb-ft. "Depending on the driver's needs, the Hurricane can be powered by 4-, 8-, 12- or 16-cylinders." Not to mention 14.3" ground clearance and a turn radius of literally 0. (And they give lots of stats on that vehicle.) I like the look of the Commander. A lot of XJ, front fenders with the bolted Renegade look and turn signals also similar to the Liberty. Nice-looking headlights that look like a cross between the XJ Wagoneer and the newer GCheros. And, _finally_, a rear end that _looks_ like a proper SUV instead of a stupid minivan. (Looks similar to the Land Rovers from a few years ago, crossed again with the XJ.) Yuppers, I like it. Oh, and John, you'll love it, cuz it has an available sunroof. ;) (Still don't know why you like those; they're worthless in western Washington. Nothing like a daily reminder that there's no sun.) Here are a buncha links from Jeep's site: http://www.jeep.com/commander/index.html http://www.jeep.com/autoshow/index.html http://www.jeep.com/autoshow/commander/gallery.html (Also links on that page to pics of the other new and concept vehicles.) http://www.jeep.com/autoshow/news/commander_overview.html http://www.jeep.com/autoshow/news/commander_design.html http://www.jeep.com/autoshow/news/commander_safety.html http://www.jeep.com/autoshow/news/commander_engineering.html Here are some of the stats I plucked from those pages: seats 7 (2+3+2; both rows of back seats are easy fold-down to become the floor, like the XJ) wheelbase: 109.5" (same as GChero) length: (2" longer than GChero) * Three full-time four-wheel drive systems, Quadra-Trac I., Quadra-Trac II. and Quadra-Drive II. * Two transfer cases offering Brake Traction Control System (BTCS), and Electronic Limited Slip Differentials (ELSD) for best-in-class tractive performance * Three available engines: the 5.7-liter HEMI. V-8 with the Multi-Displacement System, the 4.7-liter SOHC Power Tech V-8, and the 3.7-liter SOHC Power Tech V-6 engine 5.7L HEMI: 330hp -at-5000rpm / 375lb-ft -at-4000rpm 4.7L SOHC V8: 235hp -at-4500rpm / 305lb-ft -at-3600rpm 3.7L SOHC V6: 210hp -at-5200rpm / 235lb-ft -at-4000rpm - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened. -- Douglas Adams - -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 09:20:02 -0600 From: Mike Dillon Subject: Re: fsj: Re: xj: Re: the OM617 arrived... Hey John, Seems like if you are dead set on a oil burner XJ with auto, it would be less trouble to find one than build one. Granted you may need to rebuild parts of it, but at least you know it will all fit together and work well. Mike D. john wrote: >On Tue, 22 Mar 2005, Mike Dillon wrote: > > >>-->John, >>--> I thought I was bad, for leaving stuff ripped up for way to long. On >>-->the J-10 sounds like the time has passed >>-->where it is practical in your life. If you can afford toys on the side, >>-->finish it with the 4.0 or stroke the 4.0 and >>-->put the darn thing back together, otherwise eat your loss sell it as a >>-->kit and move on. As far as you other thoughts >>-->if you want a oil burner SUV, go find a 6.5 Chev/GMC SUV and buy it, I >>-->find swapping motors and playing in the >>-->shop is fun, but I have never found an engine swap to be a practical >>-->economical thing to do, fun yes, $ wise a loser. >>--> Let me know when the supper kit comes on the market. >>--> >>-->Mike D. >>--> >>-->PS didn't Jeep build some oil burner XJ's ? >> >> > >yep. I had one... an '85 xj with a 2.1L TD. >john > > > > >>-->>End of fsj-digest V1 #2390 >>-->>************************** >> >> > > ---- > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** > Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. >------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 10:53:53 -0500 (EST) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Re: New York Auto Show: 2006 Jeep Commander - Autoblog - www.autoblog.com cool. thanx. might take me a day or two to visit these links... time trials tonight with the J10 trailer. ;) john On Thu, 24 Mar 2005, Dan Black wrote: >-->john said: >-->{- On Wed, 23 Mar 2005, Jim Blair wrote: >-->{- http://www.autoblog.com/entry/1234000933037333/ >-->{- >-->{- what is it with these writers? where are the SPECS???? >--> >-->Well, you COULD go to the Jeep site and look... Just an idea. (Links >-->below.) Still not all the specs you're looking for, but a good start. >-->And lots of good, much more professional pictures (with larger versions >-->of a lot of them). Plus info on the new SRT version of the GChero, plus >-->a little on the concept vehicles... Gladiator, you'll like, like a >-->cross between a Wrangler and an old Jeepster pickup. Looks awesome for >-->trails and stuff. Hurricane is like the recent Jeepster concept... on >-->steroids. And that's designed to be a true rock crawler. Has TWO >-->engines, both 5.7L HEMIs, each with 335hp and 370lb-ft. "Depending on >-->the driver's needs, the Hurricane can be powered by 4-, 8-, 12- or >-->16-cylinders." Not to mention 14.3" ground clearance and a turn radius >-->of literally 0. (And they give lots of stats on that vehicle.) >--> >-->I like the look of the Commander. A lot of XJ, front fenders with the >-->bolted Renegade look and turn signals also similar to the Liberty. >-->Nice-looking headlights that look like a cross between the XJ Wagoneer >-->and the newer GCheros. And, _finally_, a rear end that _looks_ like a >-->proper SUV instead of a stupid minivan. (Looks similar to the Land >-->Rovers from a few years ago, crossed again with the XJ.) Yuppers, I >-->like it. >--> >-->Oh, and John, you'll love it, cuz it has an available sunroof. ;) >-->(Still don't know why you like those; they're worthless in western >-->Washington. Nothing like a daily reminder that there's no sun.) >--> >--> >-->Here are a buncha links from Jeep's site: >--> >-->http://www.jeep.com/commander/index.html >-->http://www.jeep.com/autoshow/index.html >--> >-->http://www.jeep.com/autoshow/commander/gallery.html >--> (Also links on that page to pics of the other new and concept >--> vehicles.) >-->http://www.jeep.com/autoshow/news/commander_overview.html >-->http://www.jeep.com/autoshow/news/commander_design.html >-->http://www.jeep.com/autoshow/news/commander_safety.html >-->http://www.jeep.com/autoshow/news/commander_engineering.html >--> >--> >-->Here are some of the stats I plucked from those pages: >--> >-->seats 7 (2+3+2; both rows of back seats are easy fold-down to become the >-->floor, like the XJ) >--> >-->wheelbase: 109.5" (same as GChero) >-->length: (2" longer than GChero) >--> >-->* Three full-time four-wheel drive systems, Quadra-Trac I., Quadra-Trac >--> II. and Quadra-Drive II. >-->* Two transfer cases offering Brake Traction Control System (BTCS), and >--> Electronic Limited Slip Differentials (ELSD) for best-in-class tractive >--> performance >-->* Three available engines: the 5.7-liter HEMI. V-8 with the >--> Multi-Displacement System, the 4.7-liter SOHC Power Tech V-8, and the >--> 3.7-liter SOHC Power Tech V-6 engine >--> >-->5.7L HEMI: 330hp -at-5000rpm / 375lb-ft -at-4000rpm >-->4.7L SOHC V8: 235hp -at-4500rpm / 305lb-ft -at-3600rpm >-->3.7L SOHC V6: 210hp -at-5200rpm / 235lb-ft -at-4000rpm >--> >-->------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >--> There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what >--> the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be >--> replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. >--> There is another theory which states that this has already happened. >--> -- Douglas Adams >-->-------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 10:57:06 -0500 (EST) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Re: xj: Re: the OM617 arrived... actually the '85-'86/7 2.1L All Aluminum Renault Turbo Diesel is way underpowered and very expensive to by parts for... $800 wholesale for the sleeve kit alone! Finding a factory Diesel XJ with AT is extremely hard, and I know it won't tow the trailer. I've done swaps like this before, no problem on parts or support. :) john On Thu, 24 Mar 2005, Mike Dillon wrote: > -->Hey John, > --> > --> Seems like if you are dead set on a oil burner XJ with auto, it would be > -->less trouble to find > -->one than build one. Granted you may need to rebuild parts of it, but at > -->least you know > -->it will all fit together and work well. > --> > -->Mike D. > --> > -->john wrote: > --> > -->> On Tue, 22 Mar 2005, Mike Dillon wrote: > -->> > -->> > -->John, > -->> > --> I thought I was bad, for leaving stuff ripped up for way to long. > -->> > On -->the J-10 sounds like the time has passed > -->> > -->where it is practical in your life. If you can afford toys on the > -->> > side, -->finish it with the 4.0 or stroke the 4.0 and > -->> > -->put the darn thing back together, otherwise eat your loss sell it as > -->> > a -->kit and move on. As far as you other thoughts > -->> > -->if you want a oil burner SUV, go find a 6.5 Chev/GMC SUV and buy it, > -->> > I -->find swapping motors and playing in the > -->> > -->shop is fun, but I have never found an engine swap to be a practical > -->> > -->economical thing to do, fun yes, $ wise a loser. > -->> > --> Let me know when the supper kit comes on the market. > -->> > --> > -->> > -->Mike D. > -->> > --> > -->> > -->PS didn't Jeep build some oil burner XJ's ? > -->> > > -->> > -->> yep. I had one... an '85 xj with a 2.1L TD. > -->> john > -->> > -->> > -->> > -->> > -->>End of fsj-digest V1 #2390 > -->> > -->>************************** > -->> > > -->> > -->> ---- > -->> > -->> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -->> ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, > -->> Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. > -->> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -->> > -->> > -->> > -->> > --> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 11:14:40 CST From: Dan Black Subject: fsj: Grand Commander? http://dan.black.org/GrandCommander/ OK, somebody was bound to do it. I just wonder if I'm the first or not. Added wood paneling (courtesy of pics of my '88) to make a "Grand Commander". Maybe they should just call it the General or something. ;) They're quick, dirty jobs, just to give an idea, not intended to be a professional knock-off. Though ironically, I did a quicker job on the second one, but it came out better. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yeah... He took the red one. -- alien, "Lilo & Stitch" - -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 10:07:23 -0800 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: fsj: Re: Grand Commander? those do look nice, but the wood seems too dark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 14:26:42 -0500 (EST) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: [db] transfer cases, mercedes style... On Thu, 24 Mar 2005, Paul Brown wrote: > -->Are you also gonna add a PTO? hey, that would be cool. john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 14:27:46 -0500 (EST) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Grand Commander? Nicely done Dan... if they put a Diesel into that... hmmmm.... john On Thu, 24 Mar 2005, Dan Black wrote: >-->http://dan.black.org/GrandCommander/ >--> >-->OK, somebody was bound to do it. I just wonder if I'm the first or not. >--> >-->Added wood paneling (courtesy of pics of my '88) to make a "Grand >-->Commander". Maybe they should just call it the General or something. ;) >--> >-->They're quick, dirty jobs, just to give an idea, not intended to be a >-->professional knock-off. Though ironically, I did a quicker job on the >-->second one, but it came out better. >--> >-->------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >--> Yeah... He took the red one. >--> -- alien, "Lilo & Stitch" >-->-------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 14:30:51 -0500 (EST) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: xj: Am I reading something you guys aren't ?? I thought it interesting that they put the fuel tank and spare tire in the same place as the SJ on the WK. We'll see if other details make it into the article I wrote for FSJ magazine. john On Thu, 24 Mar 2005, Daugherty, Walter W. (Laser) wrote: >-->Ok, >--> >-->I went to the quoted website: >-->http://xkjeeps.com/ >--> >-->And this is what I read----> >--> >-->The Commander is built on the same platform as the Grand Cherokee, but uses >-->very different sheet metal . Perhaps in some respects, an evolutionary upgrade >-->to the Jeep "Wagoneer". The Commander is estimated to be 4-5" taller and 10" >-->longer (?) than the 2005 Grand Cherokee. The GVW Rating (Gross Vehicle Weight) >-->will be around 6210 lbs. for the base model and 6410 lbs. for the Limited. >--> >-->4 to 5 inches TALLER than 2005 GC >-->10 inches LONGER than 2005 GC (note the author's question mark...) >--> >-->It isn't very clear, but it is there in black and white............. >-->(it looks Land Roverish to me....but enough like an XJ to make me smile) >--> >-->Bill-93XJ >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #2395 **************************