From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Sat Mar 26 17:40:11 2005 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Saturday, March 26 2005 Volume 01 : Number 2397 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: Re: [db] found a $500 '86 XJ fsj: Re: '86 Cherokee Chief - 4 cyl/AT fsj: what a day... fsj: Re: 42RH into Grand Wagoneer fsj: Re: Re: 42RH into Grand Wagoneer Re: fsj: Nosie in Park Re: fsj: Nosie in Park fsj: the cherokee chief made it home FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 16:16:05 -0500 (EST) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: [db] found a $500 '86 XJ might be... would have to use a rad support from a 4.0L then... but if the mileage is what I think it will be, then there is little point in my killing myself to drop that engine in. We'll see how the 2.5L is holding up first. :) However, it looks like I may be fixing the '79 300SD and finding it a new home. It's too nice to destroy. I know my dream of a Diesel XJ again will get shelved, but I'm realistic enough to know that these things always turn into nightmares... ;) Look at how long the 4.0L conversion is taking on Superdawg, life always gets in the way of projects like this. It's not like replacing a water pump or changing a flat. They're fun, but always take a long time. The last engine conversion swap I did took me three months longer than I'd planned. I started in August and finally finished in February. And I had a grease pit AND GARAGE and help from a couple mechanic friends. The OM617 swap gets complicated because of the front axle/steering. Then I have to engineer an XFR case adapater, modify driveshafts, rewire the vehicle, change the fuel system, build new crossmembers, and get it relicensed with the state. All doable, but they all take time. I estimate that I can do the swap for about $500 in materials/labor. john On Fri, 25 Mar 2005, Kevin Pekarek wrote: >-->On Fri, Mar 25, 2005 at 01:08:01PM -0500, john wrote: >-->> just looked at a cheap jeep... >-->> 86 xj 2.5L at selectrac... needs tlc, but looks decent. >-->> more later, hope to buy it... >--> >-->Make sure to measure the nose. Nose might be too short for the 617. >--> >-->K >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 18:10:17 -0800 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: fsj: Re: '86 Cherokee Chief - 4 cyl/AT A: I'm not on the DB list anymore (they might not be interested in this anyways) but here is another thought for the pile: Mitsubishi diesel (used in Mitsubishi, Ford and Dodge little pickups) used a Mopar auto trans (same as the 3 speed auto behind your 2.5L but a different bellhousing pattern. PS: I'd put a can of STP in that 904 before you tow with it BTW!) which could be grafted into an XJ pretty easily. I would change it to a cast iron tractor head or be very careful about the heat of the motor (3" lift coils in the front will handle the extra weight) and make sure it has a good waterpump and timing belt (interference motor) More power than the Ford diesel you had before (with the non-turbo Mazda engine) and decent fuel economy. You'd need motor mounts plus exhaust made and a 4.0L rad saddle with 3 core rad to handle the heat. Almost easier than the Toyota conversion I was looking at doing! Call the biodiesel guys (I sent you the listings) in Seattle and see if the feds ordered the road tax removed here yet. John wrote: Just bought the '86 Cherokee Chief, 4dr, 2.5L TBI, AT, Selectrac, needs some TLC, but it's got a lot of potential... and it runs! (that's always a bonus. ;) The gal calls "her" "Blue". My XP box at work won't let me download pix off my digital camera, and I have two servers down hard, waiting for field support. I'm gonna do some serious thinking here about the Diesel idea. This vehicle will work fine for it... but I'm looking at 22-26 mpg with the Diesel... and 20-22 mpg (maybe more) with the 2.5L gas. If gas is $2.15/gallon and Diesel is $2.65 (which it is right now) assuming 1,600 miles per month, then: gas rig at 20 mpg costs $172/mo Diesel at 24 mpg costs $177/mo uh... for $5/month I think I'll fix the 300SD and sell it as a runner, it'll cost me about $500 to make it right. let's say the XJ gets 18mpg, same fuel prices: $191/mo and with a Diesel, 26mpg: $163/mo if fuel was the same then it'd be: $191 gas/ $132 Diesel - now it starts becoming important, or at least interesting. :) I'm expecting to see 20mpg out of the 2.5L Gas XJ on my commute, any 2.5L owners out there? What are you getting? Anyone interested in buying a '58 Willys Wagon, '83 GMC Jimmy or a '79 300SD? :) My '91 300d was tanked up last night, 31.5mpg... est. $141/mo... hard to imagine that for $31 more a month I could drive a Jeep... dang overpriced overtaxed fuel. BTW, anyone know what BioDiesel is selling for in the Seattle area, and where to get it? Talking to Fred in Rhode Island, it's heading under $2/gal there because they pulled the road taxes off of it!!! john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 22:46:41 -0500 (EST) From: john Subject: fsj: what a day... On my way to work this morning I decided to look at a Jeep... an '86 Cherokee Chief... I half expected to find a 2dr pile of parts with the worst engine ever installed in a Jeep, that Chevy 2.8L V6. Talking to the list mom for the FSJ and XJ list while trying to find the address in Seattle my boss called to remind me I had two servers to ship to Holland... after circling the block a few times I found it! Wow. It's got the 2.5L TBI, AT, selectrac, electric locks, a hitch and overall is in pretty decent shape. I'm going to pick it up tomorrow morning! :) http://wagoneers.com/XJ/rigs/86-Cherokee-Chief/P3250005.jpg http://wagoneers.com/XJ/rigs/86-Cherokee-Chief So... here I am... dealing with three down servers and an even worse problem... explaining to my wife why I now have ANOTHER Jeep... think, think, think... Ok, got an idea... maybe my buddy Tom really doesn't want to part with his Willys Wagon... so I call him. Yep, he's buying it back on a payment plan... aha! I'm clear of one rig (that's not home yet). Turns out his wife was going to leave him if he brought the '77 Coupe home... uh oh... another one I have to sell... down one, up another... even... Heading over to Harbor Freight to get that hydraulic ram setup... I have some bodywork to do... On my way home I talk to my son... he got scent of the 300SD... he wants it now... which is fine since I'm NOT going to part it at this point because the 2.5L XJ should get low 20's for mileage... no need to bust knuckles and spend time engineering solutions. He's going to trade me back my '87 XJ and come home on leave to get the 300SD. I kind of figured it'd go down like this. :) So, now I need to fix the 300SD, sell the '77 300CD, sell the '83 Jimmy, do some minor repairs on the '86 XJ and finish my taxes before they send me off to Holland to install a Linux server... Sorry Jim in WI, the Willys stays at it's current house... although I did have him promise to let me drive it. :) FOR SALE: - 83 GMC Jimmy 6.2L Diesel - asking $1995 - 77 300CD - tranny in the trunk, best offer - 87 XJ - not sure when it'll be here, 3"/31's. So it looks like the fleet will be: '99 WJ, '91 300D, '86 XJ and eventually the '83 J10 Stepside. I suspect that either the 300d or the XJ will go away after the J10 returns from it's sabbatical (and I REALLY hope it won't be a full 7 year sabbatical!) Resuming time trials tomorrow with the XJ. :) now I need to update my web page: http://wagoneers.com/johns-vehicles.html john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 22:52:02 -0500 (EST) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: 42RH into Grand Wagoneer sounds awesome... an overdrive in an FSJ would really be nice... then they could put in lower gears to get off the line easier... suspect it would help economy a bunch! keep me/us posteed, you're welcome to join us on the FSJ list. :) john On Fri, 25 Mar 2005, The Boardmans wrote: >-->John, >--> >-->First off - praise God for your witness. >--> >-->Second - for some time now I've thought about how to get a "bolt-in" >-->overdrive automatic for Moby Jeep - my 1985 Grand Wagoneer. I had the 42RH >-->in my 1994 Grand Cherokee rebuilt about a year ago by a very experienced >-->Chrysler tech who put in all the later model beefed up parts - most of which >-->are actually 44 series transmission parts. The FSJ digest string posted on >-->wagoneers.com was the first time I'd heard any mention of anyone talking >-->about the swap. Please confirm that the 42RH from a 1994 (and early 1995) >-->4.0 4WD Grand Cherokee is a "bolt-in" as far as the transfer case pattern >-->and stick out. I know the bell housing patterns match. If so, I'll get all >-->the good info on the correct heavy duty overhaul parts and send the info and >-->photos to you for distribution. Please pass me any information you have >-->that would be good for me to know going into this adventure. >--> >-->Thanks, >--> >-->Keith Boardman >--> >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 20:09:46 -0800 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: fsj: Re: Re: 42RH into Grand Wagoneer A: Hiya Keith! (related to Flint and Krista?) You want a '94 up Grand Cherokee 4.0L 42RH trans and the valvebody from an '88 to '93 Dodge O/D trans (hydraulic shift instead of computer controlled) Note that this hasn't been done with the Jeep trans yet AFAIK, but it has been done with Mopar car trans for retro-fitting into older cars. Not sure about the length difference from 4x4 32RH (aka 904/999) FSJ 727 (same length as the 32RH) and the 42RH. If there is, only driveshafts should be an issue. There will be some upgrades needed if you plan to do any towing. I was looking into having TCI build me one, but decided to have an AW4 put in instead. (that is, do it myself!) sounds awesome... an overdrive in an FSJ would really be nice... then they could put in lower gears to get off the line easier... suspect it would help economy a bunch! keep me/us posted, you're welcome to join us on the FSJ list. :) john On Fri, 25 Mar 2005, The Boardmans wrote: >-->John, >--> >-->First off - praise God for your witness. >--> >-->Second - for some time now I've thought about how to get a "bolt-in" >-->overdrive automatic for Moby Jeep - my 1985 Grand Wagoneer. I had the >42RH >-->in my 1994 Grand Cherokee rebuilt about a year ago by a very experienced >-->Chrysler tech who put in all the later model beefed up parts - most of >which >-->are actually 44 series transmission parts. The FSJ digest string posted >on >-->wagoneers.com was the first time I'd heard any mention of anyone talking >-->about the swap. Please confirm that the 42RH from a 1994 (and early >1995) >-->4.0 4WD Grand Cherokee is a "bolt-in" as far as the transfer case >pattern >-->and stick out. I know the bell housing patterns match. If so, I'll get >all >-->the good info on the correct heavy duty overhaul parts and send the info >and >-->photos to you for distribution. Please pass me any information you have >-->that would be good for me to know going into this adventure. >--> >-->Thanks, >--> >-->Keith Boardman >--> >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 13:20:12 -0600 From: Jay Olive Subject: Re: fsj: Nosie in Park Thanks John! Only makes the noise in park. In gear or neutral - no noise. Tranny shifts great. Does not roll in park. Checked the linkage, but seems ok. Even in park the noise goes away if you race the engine. It sounds like it's coming from the timing cover. I have a Flowcooler water pump, but doubt that could be it because of the noise going away when in neutral or gear. Wierd one. Jay 89 GW john wrote: >it only does it in park? > >the parking pawl/lock? Does the jeep roll if in park? >does it go into reverse ok? any tranny slippage? > >in gear or even neutral it's ok? did you check the >shifter linkage to see if it's rattling around or hitting >something? > >john > >On Wed, 23 Mar 2005, Jay Olive wrote: > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** > Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. >------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 12:13:36 +0051 From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Nosie in Park check your flex plate and starter, I have this vague hunch.... john Jay Olive wrote: > Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 13:20:12 -0600 > From: Jay Olive > To: john > Subject: Re: fsj: Nosie in Park > > > Thanks John! > > Only makes the noise in park. In gear or neutral - no noise. Tranny > shifts great. Does not roll in park. Checked the linkage, but seems > ok. Even in park the noise goes away if you race the engine. It > sounds like it's coming from the timing cover. I have a Flowcooler > water pump, but doubt that could be it because of the noise going away > when in neutral or gear. > > > Wierd one. > > Jay > 89 GW > > john wrote: > > > the parking pawl/lock? Does the jeep roll if in park? > does it go into reverse ok? any tranny slippage? > > in gear or even neutral it's ok? did you check the > shifter linkage to see if it's rattling around or hitting > something? > > john > > On Wed, 23 Mar 2005, Jay Olive wrote: > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** > Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 17:35:39 -0500 (EST) From: john Subject: fsj: the cherokee chief made it home just got home with the "blue". it needs a lot of tlc, but the 2.5L engine is quite good. Cruised on the interstate without struggling... lots of issues to fix, but nothing major. In the engine department, the 2.5L from back of valve cover to the front of the fan is about 25.5 inches. The '79 300SD 3.0L vc to fan is about 31" the '99 WJ 4.0L vc to fan is about 32" That means that "blue" is getting repaired and not converted... will need to use a 4.0L XJ to do the conversion... which is not something I'm likely to do if the mileage on the XJ is any where close to 20mpg. john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #2397 **************************