From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Mon Jul 18 22:20:49 2005 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Tuesday, July 19 2005 Volume 01 : Number 2476 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: fsj: Re: manifold gaskets Re: fsj: Re: manifold gaskets Re: fsj: Re: manifold gaskets fsj: Re: [db] Hello Gang! fsj: revetec? Re: fsj: Re: manifold gaskets fsj: was manifold gaskets, now runs bad FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 21:58:37 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Re: manifold gaskets guess this is why I used to do the annual tightening of the manifold bolts, replacing all vacuum lines and non-Jacobs wires... this is also why I have been without my FSJ for four years also, trying to build an FSJ that doesn't have these issues. :) john On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 Brazzadog-at-aol.com wrote: >-->I believe the AMC exhaust manifolds were designed to seal without a gasket. >-->Anytime mine are off or leaking I always have them checked and flattened. I >-->have used a heavy copper gasket with success. I think it's a Mr. Gasket >-->product, but I can't remember for sure. They carry them in the performance >-->section at the primary Schucks store in town. I've never gotten an exhaust >-->manifold to seal and stay tight using factory torque specs. I generally have to >-->put all my leverage on the end of a 3/8" ratchet. I'm too chicken of bolt >-->breakage to step up to 1/2" drive. My best success has been when I retighten >-->the bolts for several months after successively longer driving intervals. They >-->definitely seem to loosen over time, especially the back ones. I also try >-->to use heavy flat washers and low profile lock washers under every bolt. It >-->seems to help keep them from backing off over time. The heavy copper gaskets >-->come with nice low profile lock washers, but I've never seen them anywhere >-->else. >--> >-->Ben >--> >--> >-->In a message dated 7/15/2005 10:25:08 PM Pacific Daylight Time, >-->owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net writes: >--> >-->From: JeepNut >--> >-->Howdy all. >-->Here's a wonder... wonder why I've got to replace for the 2nd time >-->in 6 months the exhaust manifold gaskets on the L side of Rez Runner's >-->'81 360? >-->My original motor never blew one at all. >-->But when I got the Rez from Vince it had a blown head gasket on that >-->side that he knew about. When I swapped the motor, I put a new set on. >-->About 3 months later I replaced it again.... and about another 4 >-->months now and it's gone again. The only thing I can think of is last >-->weekend pulling some half downed trees up out of the ditch to go on "the >-->pile". Still had some fair root system on a couple of them. She did a >-->little gruntin'... even busted a chain link on one mis-calculated yank. >-->Maybe just the flexing with a heavy load on the motor breifly does it? >-->Just got my first commission check as Service Manager so BJ's will >-->get an order shortly. If I'm gonna get any real trail time with this >-->thing after lifted, I expect it to be doing some flexing... do exhaust >-->manifold gaskets plague those of you who've btdt? >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 01:53:50 -0500 From: JeepNut Subject: Re: fsj: Re: manifold gaskets ...and what about those funky manifold bolts? They've got holes in the ends of them. At least mine do. All 6 of them have a hole bored in the end. But I broke one of the things putting it back together and had to easy-out the remains. Of course finding these specific manifold bolts in THIS blackhole of technology on a Sunday early evening was not even an option, so I got some grade 8 Bolts and some washers to get it mounted up right and after I fired up the truck the stupid thing is STILL leaking only now in the front too. lovely. I guess I'll go see if anybody around here can get ahold of the coppers unless you guys think I should go without anything at all. And now I'm worried about the bolts not having holes in them.... what's that all about? Anyone know? thanks all! JeepNut Dan Black wrote: >Brazzadog-at-aol.com said: >{- I believe the AMC exhaust manifolds were designed to seal without a gasket. >{- Anytime mine are off or leaking I always have them checked and flattened. >{- I have used a heavy copper gasket with success. I think it's a Mr. Gasket > >I agree. I switched to headers on the '88, and they kept blowing out >the gaskets, working loose, and rattling. Finally got copper gaskets >from either Summit Racing or maybe Jeg's, and no rattle since -- I think >it's been over a year now. I think they were something like $30 for the >pair, but if you keep blowing exhaust manifold gaskets and getting >rattles as a result, they're worth it. > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > How many roads must a man travel down before he admits he is lost? >-------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- > > > - -- This mail subject to change without notice. Text is slightly enlarged to show detail. No substitutions allowed. - ---------------------------------------------------------- '87 Street Comanche #24/100 '88 Grand Wagoneer '92 Cherokee Laredo '87 Grand Wagoneer (parts) '81 Wagoneer (parts) ...and they say there's only one... - ---------------------------------------------------------- Registered Linux user #287453 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 07:07:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Greg Loxtercamp Subject: Re: fsj: Re: manifold gaskets I'd be interested in finding out exactly why those bolt have holes in them...but, I suspect it's an expansion thing. Pertaining to the gaskets, I never had luck with them...They worked until the bolts loosened up, then the gaskets would start burning away until there was nothing left. I had the best luck with some high-temp gasket rtv...I think I use the copper stuff (for exhaust manifolds/headers) from Permatex...of course, I think you still have to re-tourque periodically, else it will burn away as well. Greg - --- JeepNut wrote: > ...and what about those funky manifold bolts? > They've got holes in the ends of them. At least mine do. > All 6 of them have a hole bored in the end. > But I broke one of the things putting it back together and had to > easy-out the remains. > Of course finding these specific manifold bolts in THIS blackhole > of > technology on a Sunday early evening was not even an option, so I > got > some grade 8 Bolts and some washers to get it mounted up right and > after > I fired up the truck the stupid thing is STILL leaking only now in > the > front too. lovely. > I guess I'll go see if anybody around here can get ahold of the > coppers > unless you guys think I should go without anything at all. > And now I'm worried about the bolts not having holes in them.... > what's > that all about? Anyone know? > thanks all! > JeepNut > > > Dan Black wrote: > > >Brazzadog-at-aol.com said: > >{- I believe the AMC exhaust manifolds were designed to seal > without a gasket. > >{- Anytime mine are off or leaking I always have them checked and > flattened. > >{- I have used a heavy copper gasket with success. I think it's > a Mr. Gasket > > > >I agree. I switched to headers on the '88, and they kept blowing > out > >the gaskets, working loose, and rattling. Finally got copper > gaskets > >from either Summit Racing or maybe Jeg's, and no rattle since -- I > think > >it's been over a year now. I think they were something like $30 > for the > >pair, but if you keep blowing exhaust manifold gaskets and getting > >rattles as a result, they're worth it. > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > How many roads must a man travel down before he admits he is > lost? > >-------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org > -------------- > > > > > > > > > -- > This mail subject to change without notice. > Text is slightly enlarged to show detail. > No substitutions allowed. > ---------------------------------------------------------- > '87 Street Comanche #24/100 > '88 Grand Wagoneer > '92 Cherokee Laredo > '87 Grand Wagoneer (parts) > '81 Wagoneer (parts) > ...and they say there's only one... > ---------------------------------------------------------- > Registered Linux user #287453 > ____________________________________________________ Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 08:07:37 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: [db] Hello Gang! A grease pit is nice, but if you can build a lift, it's much better. http://www.wagoneers.com/FSJ/GarageScenes-Jan92.jpg http://www.wagoneers.com/XJ/GarageScenes-Jan93-XJ.jpg problem with grease pits is getting in and out... dropping xfr cases in them, the mess at the bottom... ground water... and of course the problem of smaller vehicles falling in if you misjudge the entry... also, you still have to lift a vehicle to take some parts off anyway, then where to you put the jack? :) Derick, I'll have to check this out one of these days. :) john On Mon, 18 Jul 2005, Jim Hoffman wrote: >-->WOW! Very cool! And, yes, pictures are required ;) >-->Jim >-->> Well the last couple of weeks have been quite the blur, but I finally >-->have >-->> the 24x44 concrete pad prepared for my new garage (pictures forth coming >-->> when project is erected, no time right now). The height at the eave >-->will be >-->> 13.5 ft. With in six months a lift will be installed in the south west >-->> corner. >-->> I may never come out and just rent my home to cover property taxes.. ;) >-->> I never knew how much work it was to prep a site for a pour. There are >-->parts >-->> of my body aching I did not know where there before now. :-) >-->> All that is left is to assemble the thing and finish off the ends and >-->> drywall/insulate the inside. >-->> When this thing is done I will be ready to finish my other 190d that has >-->> been dormant for a couple years now. >-->> I also need to pull two engines and do some work on a car my sister >-->gave me. >-->> My beagles will indeed have a large dog house when the doggie door is >-->> installed. >-->> I am sore but excited I have been planning this for a few years now and it >-->> is awesome when a plan comes together! >-->> Thought I would share this with you all since my beagles only care about >-->> what I am eating at any given time! ;) >-->> Later >-->> Derick ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 11:57:54 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: revetec? jim blair sent me a link to this site... http://www.revetec.com/website/index.html kind of interesting, but I'm not sure I understand it completely... john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 21:26:54 -0400 From: "Neal Hoover" Subject: Re: fsj: Re: manifold gaskets i'd say the idea of the hole in the bolt is because they know the bolts have had a tendancy to break off in the past. now, they "pre-drill" a hole in them so that when they *do* break off, it's a lot easier to get them out with an extractor tool. hmmMMM? Neal A. Hoover Project '76 J-10 Project '96 XJ http://community.webshots.com/user/proj96xj - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Loxtercamp" To: "Full Size Jeeps" Sent: Monday, July 18, 2005 10:07 AM Subject: Re: fsj: Re: manifold gaskets > I'd be interested in finding out exactly why those bolt have holes in > them...but, I suspect it's an expansion thing. > > Pertaining to the gaskets, I never had luck with them...They worked > until the bolts loosened up, then the gaskets would start burning > away until there was nothing left. I had the best luck with some > high-temp gasket rtv...I think I use the copper stuff (for exhaust > manifolds/headers) from Permatex...of course, I think you still have > to re-tourque periodically, else it will burn away as well. > > Greg > > --- JeepNut wrote: > > > ...and what about those funky manifold bolts? > > They've got holes in the ends of them. At least mine do. > > All 6 of them have a hole bored in the end. > > But I broke one of the things putting it back together and had to > > easy-out the remains. > > Of course finding these specific manifold bolts in THIS blackhole > > of > > technology on a Sunday early evening was not even an option, so I > > got > > some grade 8 Bolts and some washers to get it mounted up right and > > after > > I fired up the truck the stupid thing is STILL leaking only now in > > the > > front too. lovely. > > I guess I'll go see if anybody around here can get ahold of the > > coppers > > unless you guys think I should go without anything at all. > > And now I'm worried about the bolts not having holes in them.... > > what's > > that all about? Anyone know? > > thanks all! > > JeepNut > > > > > > Dan Black wrote: > > > > >Brazzadog-at-aol.com said: > > >{- I believe the AMC exhaust manifolds were designed to seal > > without a gasket. > > >{- Anytime mine are off or leaking I always have them checked and > > flattened. > > >{- I have used a heavy copper gasket with success. I think it's > > a Mr. Gasket > > > > > >I agree. I switched to headers on the '88, and they kept blowing > > out > > >the gaskets, working loose, and rattling. Finally got copper > > gaskets > > >from either Summit Racing or maybe Jeg's, and no rattle since -- I > > think > > >it's been over a year now. I think they were something like $30 > > for the > > >pair, but if you keep blowing exhaust manifold gaskets and getting > > >rattles as a result, they're worth it. > > > > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- > > > How many roads must a man travel down before he admits he is > > lost? > > >-------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org > > -------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > This mail subject to change without notice. > > Text is slightly enlarged to show detail. > > No substitutions allowed. > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > '87 Street Comanche #24/100 > > '88 Grand Wagoneer > > '92 Cherokee Laredo > > '87 Grand Wagoneer (parts) > > '81 Wagoneer (parts) > > ...and they say there's only one... > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > Registered Linux user #287453 > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________ > Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.16/50 - Release Date: 7/15/05 > > - -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.16/50 - Release Date: 7/15/05 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 00:16:34 -0500 From: JeepNut Subject: fsj: was manifold gaskets, now runs bad Neal Hoover wrote: >i'd say the idea of the hole in the bolt is because they know the bolts have >had a tendancy to break off in the past. now, they "pre-drill" a hole in >them so that when they *do* break off, it's a lot easier to get them out >with an extractor tool. >hmmMMM? > >Neal A. Hoover >Project '76 J-10 >Project '96 XJ >http://community.webshots.com/user/proj96xj > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Greg Loxtercamp" >To: "Full Size Jeeps" >Sent: Monday, July 18, 2005 10:07 AM >Subject: Re: fsj: Re: manifold gaskets > > > > >>I'd be interested in finding out exactly why those bolt have holes in >>them...but, I suspect it's an expansion thing. >> >>Pertaining to the gaskets, I never had luck with them...They worked >>until the bolts loosened up, then the gaskets would start burning >>away until there was nothing left. I had the best luck with some >>high-temp gasket rtv...I think I use the copper stuff (for exhaust >>manifolds/headers) from Permatex...of course, I think you still have >>to re-tourque periodically, else it will burn away as well. >> >>Greg >> >>--- JeepNut wrote: >> >> >> >>>...and what about those funky manifold bolts? >>>They've got holes in the ends of them. At least mine do. >>>All 6 of them have a hole bored in the end. >>>But I broke one of the things putting it back together and had to >>>easy-out the remains. >>>Of course finding these specific manifold bolts in THIS blackhole >>>of >>>technology on a Sunday early evening was not even an option, so I >>>got >>>some grade 8 Bolts and some washers to get it mounted up right and >>>after >>>I fired up the truck the stupid thing is STILL leaking only now in >>>the >>>front too. lovely. >>>I guess I'll go see if anybody around here can get ahold of the >>>coppers >>>unless you guys think I should go without anything at all. >>>And now I'm worried about the bolts not having holes in them.... >>>what's >>>that all about? Anyone know? >>> thanks all! >>> JeepNut >>> >>> >>>Dan Black wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>>Brazzadog-at-aol.com said: >>>>{- I believe the AMC exhaust manifolds were designed to seal >>>> >>>> >>>without a gasket. >>> >>> >>>>{- Anytime mine are off or leaking I always have them checked and >>>> >>>> >>>flattened. >>> >>> >>>>{- I have used a heavy copper gasket with success. I think it's >>>> >>>> >>>a Mr. Gasket >>> >>> >>>>I agree. I switched to headers on the '88, and they kept blowing >>>> >>>> >>>out >>> >>> >>>>the gaskets, working loose, and rattling. Finally got copper >>>> >>>> >>>gaskets >>>>from either Summit Racing or maybe Jeg's, and no rattle since -- I >>>think >>> >>> >>>>it's been over a year now. I think they were something like $30 >>>> >>>> >>>for the >>> >>> >>>>pair, but if you keep blowing exhaust manifold gaskets and getting >>>>rattles as a result, they're worth it. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>--------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >---- > > >>>> How many roads must a man travel down before he admits he is >>>> >>>> >>>lost? >>> >>> >>>>-------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org >>>> >>>> >>>-------------- >>> >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>-- >>>This mail subject to change without notice. >>>Text is slightly enlarged to show detail. >>>No substitutions allowed. >>>---------------------------------------------------------- >>>'87 Street Comanche #24/100 >>>'88 Grand Wagoneer >>>'92 Cherokee Laredo >>>'87 Grand Wagoneer (parts) >>>'81 Wagoneer (parts) >>>...and they say there's only one... >>>---------------------------------------------------------- >>>Registered Linux user #287453 >>> >>> >>> >> >> >>____________________________________________________ >>Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page >>http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs >> >> >>-- >>No virus found in this incoming message. >>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >>Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.16/50 - Release Date: 7/15/05 >> >> >> >> > > > > > > - -- This mail subject to change without notice. Text is slightly enlarged to show detail. No substitutions allowed. - ---------------------------------------------------------- '87 Street Comanche #24/100 '88 Grand Wagoneer '92 Cherokee Laredo '87 Grand Wagoneer (parts) '81 Wagoneer (parts) ...and they say there's only one... - ---------------------------------------------------------- Registered Linux user #287453 ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #2476 **************************