From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Wed Jul 27 22:31:56 2005 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Thursday, July 28 2005 Volume 01 : Number 2482 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: free engine, free veggie oil, spare jeep... hmmm... fsj: Re: [db] free engine, free veggie oil, spare jeep... hmmm... fsj: Re: [db] free engine, free veggie oil, spare jeep... hmmm... fsj: Re: Re: [db] free engine, free veggie oil, spare jeep... hmmm... Re: fsj: Re: Re: [db] free engine, free veggie oil, spare jeep... hmmm... Re: fsj: Re: Re: [db] free engine, free veggie oil, spare jeep... hmmm... Re: fsj: Re: Re: [db] free engine, free veggie oil, spare jeep... hmmm... Re: fsj: Re: Re: [db] free engine, free veggie oil, spare jeep... hmmm... Re: fsj: Re: Re: [db] free engine, free veggie oil, spare jeep... hmmm... fsj: adventures in Tokyo... fsj: adventures in Tokyo... (fwd) FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 20:17:21 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: free engine, free veggie oil, spare jeep... hmmm... free Diesel engine, free veggie oil, spare jeep... hmmm... this could work... the temptation is significant, the time is scarce... let's see... this "free" engine would be going into a 1986 Jeep Cherokee currently with a 2.5L I-4 mated to a 904 Tranny connected to an NP229 xfr case, power pushed out through 4.10 gears... current engine 150.45 cu in or 2465.434 cc's, or 2.4L 117hp-at-5000rpm, 135ft lbs -at- 3500rpm... and it's gutless... (age or design? ;) the possible donor vehicle is a 1980 240D, supposedly with a busted windshield, damaged manual transmission and body rust... It has an I-4 2.4L timing chain equipped naturally aspirated Mercedes Diesel with 72 ponies creating about 97 foot pounds of torque... the specs are: 240D Jul-75 Nov-85 2399cc 72hp 4400 rpm 97ftlbs 2400 rpm 110in wheelbase 190.9in long 70.3in wide 56.6in tall 37ft turning radius 3200 curb weight 0 to 60 in 24.7 minutes, no wait, seconds... 86 mph top speed est. mpg 24.75 fuel capacity 17.2 orig price $ 23,800 I really have to see the car before I condemn it... Other crazy thoughts are crossing my deranged mind... like 110 inch wheelbase is pretty close to 106 inch wheelbase... hmmm... I could create a 620 Mercedes... 4x4 even... ok, ok, let's just keep this simple... drop the 2.4L Diesel into the 1986 Cherokee, get an AT flex plate and mate the existing 904 torque converter and tranny to this engine??? Otherwise I'll have to find an MB AT and build an adapter for the xfr case... thoughts? I fly to Tokyo on Saturday so this madness might be prevented, we'll see... :) john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 21:13:27 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: [db] free engine, free veggie oil, spare jeep... hmmm... On Tue, 26 Jul 2005, Paul Masterson wrote: > -->> Other crazy thoughts are crossing my deranged mind... like 110 inch > -->> wheelbase is pretty close to 106 inch wheelbase... hmmm... I could > -->> create a 620 Mercedes... 4x4 even... > --> > -->That's the ticket! > -->Paul hey, it's got to look better than that big ugly jimmy. :) maybe I can sell the GMC shell for a replacement windshield. john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 22:02:53 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: [db] free engine, free veggie oil, spare jeep... hmmm... On Tue, 26 Jul 2005, chuck goolsbee wrote: > -->At 8:17 PM -0700 7/26/05, john wrote: > -->> thoughts? > --> > -->My first thought was "John, you are insane. I suggest you seek professional > -->help." > --> > -->My second thought was a scene from a movie: > --> > -->Otter: I'll tell you what. We'll tell Fred you were doing a great job taking > -->care of his car, but you parked it out back last night and in the morning, > -->it was gone. We report it to the police, D-Day takes care of the wreck, the > -->insurance company buys your brother a new car. > -->Flounder: Will that work? > -->Otter: Hey, it's gotta work better than the truth. > -->Bluto: [thrusting six-pack into Flounder's hands] My advice to you is to > -->start drinking heavily. > -->Otter: Better listen to him, Flounder, he's in pre-med. > -->D-Day: [firing up blow-torch] There you go now, just leave everything to me. > --> > -->-- > -->--chuck goolsbee > -->02 Jetta TDi (but also looking for a 300SD or SDL) > -->arlington, wa, usa > --> rofl... professional help won't touch me... I walked in under my own power and they just looked at me... :) so I left... (actually did visit a nut house in Europe while working on my psych degree... the teacher said this one place in Belgium was really a great place, so I found it and checked it out. :) But that's another story. regarding the 2nd part, my torch is down in Centralia, maybe I can have it returned.... care to pick it up on your way back from Oregon? Curtis doesn't need it now to finish Superdawg and I'll need it to open up the fenderwheels on the 240D to make it fit on the Jimmy chassis. :) remember, the guys on the FSJ and XJ list made me lock up my sawzall from my son... ;) (have you seen what he did to the Javelin yet? look at http://wagoneers.com/tmp/Javelin-460.mov :) I can tell you that there have been a number of vehicles that have come down this driveway together and left in many pieces... :) I think it'smore fun to go through the design phase... ideas drift about... mostly ideas that I've finally lost it... but a few that make sense... engineering concepts are discussed and solutions present themselves... Like this time, the key component to making this work is the interface between the 2.4L Mercedes and the TF904 tranny... that's ALL!!! Oh yeah, sure I'll have to fabricate some motor mounts, rewire part of the car, make mounts for the accessories, fabricate a rad support, but that's minor stuff... ;) ...besides, I always seem to look for that out... "oh that's too nice to cut up" or "it won't fit" (without excessive modification, which I'm not really opposed to. ;) so I'm waiting for confirmation of my pending insanity and the pictures... of course if I tell my wife what is coming home that puts an immediate halt to the project. ;) I hinted at the project tonight and she didn't take the bait... I mentioned that I have a free Diesel engine to put in the Blue Cherokee... she didn't get too excited, but then again I failed to mention that the engine was still attached to a rusted 240d... :) Hey, any locals want a free 240D minus engine and cooling components? You can even have the manual trans, new clutch, etc... the trans is damaged... If I can get the car hauled someplace and pull the engine/rad and wiring needed and put it in my trailer or Jimmy I won't be in trouble. And I'll be helping someone out with a bunch of good 123 parts. :) provided of course that the 2.4L Diesel will actually propel said XJ, and that's not a Jag type XJ, but a Jeep type... :) john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 11:36:06 -0700 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: fsj: Re: Re: [db] free engine, free veggie oil, spare jeep... hmmm... First bit of sage advice: the 904 will NOT stand up to a diesel! Go with a 727 instead. Even Jeep knew that with the lower than Mercedes diesel power Nissan 6 they used. Second bit: The 460 in your son's Jav has the timing about 7 degrees too retarded and it's overfuelling. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 12:11:24 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Re: [db] free engine, free veggie oil, spare jeep... hmmm... On Wed, 27 Jul 2005, Jim Blair wrote: >--> First bit of sage advice: the 904 will NOT stand up to a diesel! Go with a >-->727 instead. Even Jeep knew that with the lower than Mercedes diesel power >-->Nissan 6 they used. the 2.5L gas engine has more hp, more torque... 134,000 miles on it and it seems fine... BTW, how does the 904 know when to shift? Also, this is attached to an NP229, is it a 904 for certain behind the 2.5L TBI? >-->Second bit: The 460 in your son's Jav has the timing about 7 degrees too >-->retarded and it's overfuelling. I forwarded this to him... we'll see... :) john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 12:18:26 -0700 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Re: [db] free engine, free veggie oil, spare jeep... hmmm... A: The 904 (only trans available behind the 4 cyl in '86) torque converter isn't set up for diesel and the necks are prone to snapping. They also have a 1200RPM stall speed on the 4 cyl's converter (that I recollect. Been awhile) that won't do well with a diesel. You'd be better off using the Mercedes trans and making it a 2wd. (what trans/tcase do the Mercedes SUVs use?) On Wed, 27 Jul 2005, Jim Blair wrote: >--> First bit of sage advice: the 904 will NOT stand up to a diesel! Go >with a >-->727 instead. Even Jeep knew that with the lower than Mercedes diesel >power >-->Nissan 6 they used. the 2.5L gas engine has more hp, more torque... 134,000 miles on it and it seems fine... BTW, how does the 904 know when to shift? Also, this is attached to an NP229, is it a 904 for certain behind the 2.5L TBI? >-->Second bit: The 460 in your son's Jav has the timing about 7 degrees too >-->retarded and it's overfuelling. I forwarded this to him... we'll see... :) john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 12:19:20 -0700 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Re: [db] free engine, free veggie oil, spare jeep... hmmm... PS: TRans is hydraulically controlled and uses a rod to the carb to control upshift and kickdown. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 12:34:54 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Re: [db] free engine, free veggie oil, spare jeep... hmmm... On Wed, 27 Jul 2005, Jim Blair wrote: >-->PS: TRans is hydraulically controlled and uses a rod to the carb to control >-->upshift and kickdown. see, that's why this will work well with the Diesel. :) john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 12:42:01 -0700 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Re: [db] free engine, free veggie oil, spare jeep... hmmm... It will IF you get a lower stall converter. Otherwise fuel economy will be in the bowl. (And I don't mean Superbowl!) On Wed, 27 Jul 2005, Jim Blair wrote: >-->PS: TRans is hydraulically controlled and uses a rod to the carb to >control >-->upshift and kickdown. see, that's why this will work well with the Diesel. :) john ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 19:52:45 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: adventures in Tokyo... just got word from my contact in Tokyo that she found the "Off-Road Center". I have a magazine from Joe Richardson from the XJ list that has an article about a nice Full Size Cherokee... (I think the magazine is actually in Chinese...) see: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/rigs/japanese-cherokee/ anyway, so, it looks like I'll be able to see if he still has it... :) http://www.offroad.co.jp/frameset.html Well, at least I'll have one thing to do in Japan that will be somewhat interesting... :) john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 22:26:37 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: adventures in Tokyo... (fwd) fsj magazine article? I think I'll check out this shop on Monday... john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: john just got word from my contact in Tokyo that she found the "Off-Road Center". I have a magazine from Joe Richardson from the XJ list that has an article about a nice Full Size Cherokee... (I think the magazine is actually in Chinese...) see: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/rigs/japanese-cherokee/ anyway, so, it looks like I'll be able to see if he still has it... :) http://www.offroad.co.jp/frameset.html Well, at least I'll have one thing to do in Japan that will be somewhat interesting... :) john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #2482 **************************