From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Thu Jan 5 20:59:50 2006 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Friday, January 6 2006 Volume 01 : Number 2563 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: I-5 adventures... Re: fsj: xj rims=rear bumper damage fsj: Re: books Re: fsj: I-5 adventures... fsj: Jeep J20 Truck for sale Re: fsj: Jeep J20 Truck for sale RE: fsj: NP208 oil pump housing seal replacement Re: fsj: NP208 oil pump housing seal replacement fsj: travelers fsj: Re: books Re: fsj: travelers RE: fsj: NP208 oil pump housing seal replacement Re: fsj: xj rims=rear bumper damage FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 22:45:23 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: fsj: I-5 adventures... my son is on his way back to AZ.... I-5 was closed between Yreka and Weed in CA... so he went to Weed from Yreka by way of Fort Jones and Etna on CA 3 and then back to I-5 on some twisty windy mountain road... ice... He's back on I-5 heading south, still dealing with ice at 10pm but making headway... getting over 18mpg with the fully loaded GMC Jimmy with the 6.2L Diesel. He's convinced (as I am) that the 6.2L in my J10 is the way to go. later, john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 21:00:08 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: xj rims=rear bumper damage On Tue, 3 Jan 2006, JeepNut wrote: > -->I dunno if I'd go too wild with the iron back there. > -->Honestly I would say that "the iron" is what did Rez Runner in. > -->The kid that rearended it was driving a full size older Caddy so THAT didn't > -->help, but Vince had an MOMMA of a bumper back there. (?Killer 32? i > -->think...) But when it got rear ended, mostly only the top tube of the > -->bumper crushed, taking away some force, but then little else on the bumper > -->bent. Just enough metal on the bumper crushed up to the face of the > -->mounting bracket but those are SOME mounting brackets and they didn't give > -->at all... but the Rightside frame of the Rez buckled downward J U S T behind > -->the apex of the frame curvature over the rear axle. Don't have to be a > -->physicist to figure out why that happened... > -->"Super-strong" is no better than just "strong" when the strength is between > -->force and a weaker link.... > --> > -->But, Hey, I gotta say I'm impressed by yer Chrysler Jeep and a little bit > -->surprised actually. > -->I'm just an old fart that can't let go of ... "they don't build 'em like > -->they used to"... > -->I just disregard some of the other finishes I've heard folks put on that ol' > -->saw... lol... > -->Glad the Jeep name was preserved properly and that it was a minor event. > -->What the heck kind of Toyota took $2K worth from a love tap? corolla... http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2006/crunch-Jan-2/Jan2-2006-bothell-3.jpg having brackets that give is the way to protect the frame... but iron back there would have protected the jeep in this case. the plastic hides a lot of other damage... until I remove the cover I don't know if the uniframe or brackets were bent... john > -->JeepNut > --> > --> > -->john wrote: > --> > -->> was meeting up with jim blair to get an xj rim for my son's xj... > -->> just sitting in the parking lot in bothell minding my own business > -->> and CRUNCH... someone in a Toyota backs into the rear of my WJ. > -->> > -->> haven't crawled underneath yet, it popped one of the buttons off > -->> the plastic valence, tore the plastic a bit... the toyota actually > -->> hit the tailgate handle... I'm guessing about $2,000 damage to > -->> the toyota, probably around $200 to mine... will get it looked > -->> at to make sure the bumper support didn't get tweaked... the plastic > -->> valence might be repairable... if it's just the plastic piece it'll > -->> only cost the guy just under $200 to fix my WJ. I'm not going to > -->> charge him for labor or anything... the guy was from Oregon (about > -->> 200 miles or so from home) and seemed a bit flakey, so I may end > -->> up seeing nothing out of this... will post pictures in a bit at: > -->> http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2006/crunch-Jan-2 > -->> > -->> dave on the xj/wj list, what's the link to a "REAL" bumper for > -->> a WJ again? ;) of course had this been an XJ the bumper would > -->> have been destroyed... I'm sure an FSJ with an aluminum bumper > -->> would have been tweaked too... (post '80). If I'd been in shadowfax it > -->> would have ridden up over the bumper and done massive > -->> damage to my benz... not sure why the guy didn't impale himself > -->> on my hitch... rats... need more iron back there... > -->> > -->> john > -->> > -->> ---- > -->> > -->> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -->> ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** > -->> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > -->> ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** > -->> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -->> > -->> > -->> > --> > --> > -->-- > -->Email is subject to change without notice > -->Do not hold in hand! Light Email and get away! > -->Ask us about our Guns-For-Email trade-in plan > -->You need not be present to win > -->---------------------------------------------------------- > -->'87 Street Comanche #24/100 - offline > -->'88 Grand Wagoneer > --> - '81 AMC 360 -.030 over- Edelbrock Performer/1400 600cfm 4bbl, > -->TFI System upgrade, TF727 -mild kit- NP229, D44's F/R -3:31- > -->B.J.'s Offroad 6" kit/ drop pittman, stainless extended brake lines, ProComp > -->3000 shocks, Maxxis Buckshot 33x12.5x15 14 Spoke OEM Wagonwheels, IPF 65/55 > -->lamps...and then some. > -->'92 Cherokee Laredo - Bone stock > -->'87 Grand Wagoneer - parts > -->'81 Wagoneer - parts > -->...and they say there's only one... > -->---------------------------------------------------------- > -->Registered Linux user #287453 > --> > --> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 11:31:41 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: books you'll want to get an MR253 I have a few pages on my server: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/tech/MR253 john On Wed, 4 Jan 2006, Stef wrote: >-->John, >--> >-->New question, the drawing from the tailgate i show you from which repair >-->manual is that, it is a copy from your site http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/tech/Tailgate-Manual >-->Have you books with several drawings from wagoneer parts if so i like to buy >-->such book, let me know. >--> >-->Thanks, Stef ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 18:48:28 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: I-5 adventures... wow, the server got stuck... he's probably back in Tucson by now, or very close, at 5pm he was in Phoenix... it's 6:30pm now, on Wednesday... I emailed this at 10pm or so last night... john On Tue, 3 Jan 2006, john wrote: >-->my son is on his way back to AZ.... >--> >-->I-5 was closed between Yreka and Weed in CA... so he >-->went to Weed from Yreka by way of Fort Jones and Etna >-->on CA 3 and then back to I-5 on some twisty windy mountain >-->road... ice... >--> >-->He's back on I-5 heading south, still dealing with ice >-->at 10pm but making headway... getting over 18mpg with >-->the fully loaded GMC Jimmy with the 6.2L Diesel. He's >-->convinced (as I am) that the 6.2L in my J10 is the way to go. >--> >-->later, >-->john >--> >--> ---- >--> >-->------------------------------------------------------------------------- >--> ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** >--> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold >--> ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** >-->------------------------------------------------------------------------- >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 18:36:44 -0800 From: "Whit Hickman" Subject: fsj: Jeep J20 Truck for sale Need to clear out a project and unfortunately it's my J20. I took the motor out to rebuild but then decided to buy a new truck. I put a new cam and lifters into a good used long block but it's not entirely back together. Nor can I guarantee how it will run. However the parts should add up to well over the price. I'm just not patient enough to part it out. The price is $2000. If I can't get that price, I'll put it on eBay and if it doesn't sell there, I'll part it out. So please don't ask for parts yet, I'll let everyone know if it gets to that. Must pick up in Portland OR. It's a Black 84 J20 * 360 AMC * Headers * Custom 2.5" dual exhaust * Edelbrock Manifold * Holley Carb * 727 Transmission * NP 228 transfer case * D60 Full Floating rear with 3.73 gears * D44 front. * Almost New Skyjacker 4" Lift * Almost New steering * Almost New brakes * Almost New Carpet * Almost New Door Panels * Almost New 35" BFG Kos * Almost New 16.5" Alloy wheels * Leather Bucket Seats from a Grand Wagoneer. * Air Conditioning - I have most the parts but don't have it running yet. The weak points * Motor is out and not completely rebuilt. No guarantees on it. * Rear Sliding Window doesn't slide all that well. * Door window slides lost the fuzz so the windows rattle * Rust - There are spots but nothing is rusted through. * Bumpers are a little wavy. * The paint is old, I believe original. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 20:20:28 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Jeep J20 Truck for sale I've got a tow bar someone can borrow to get it home... ;) BTW, my son reports that the 6.2L Diesel is to his liking. This J20 is already for a 6.2L transplant... ;) I just changed trucks (more or less)... sold my Mercedes Diesel for a '99 Grand Cherokee. Have two now, one 4.0L, one V8. Found out Maaco has a sale on paint jobs right now, need to get the '48 Willys CJ-2A over there ASAP (will need said tow bar for that operation.) john On Wed, 4 Jan 2006, Whit Hickman wrote: >-->Need to clear out a project and unfortunately it's my J20. I took the >-->motor out to rebuild but then decided to buy a new truck. I put a new >-->cam and lifters into a good used long block but it's not entirely back >-->together. Nor can I guarantee how it will run. However the parts >-->should add up to well over the price. I'm just not patient enough to >-->part it out. >--> >-->The price is $2000. If I can't get that price, I'll put it on eBay and >-->if it doesn't sell there, I'll part it out. So please don't ask for >-->parts yet, I'll let everyone know if it gets to that. Must pick up in >-->Portland OR. >--> >-->It's a Black 84 J20 >-->* 360 AMC >-->* Headers >-->* Custom 2.5" dual exhaust >-->* Edelbrock Manifold >-->* Holley Carb >-->* 727 Transmission >-->* NP 228 transfer case >-->* D60 Full Floating rear with 3.73 gears >-->* D44 front. >-->* Almost New Skyjacker 4" Lift >-->* Almost New steering >-->* Almost New brakes >-->* Almost New Carpet >-->* Almost New Door Panels >-->* Almost New 35" BFG Kos >-->* Almost New 16.5" Alloy wheels >-->* Leather Bucket Seats from a Grand Wagoneer. >-->* Air Conditioning - I have most the parts but don't have it running >-->yet. >--> >-->The weak points >-->* Motor is out and not completely rebuilt. No guarantees on it. >-->* Rear Sliding Window doesn't slide all that well. >-->* Door window slides lost the fuzz so the windows rattle >-->* Rust - There are spots but nothing is rusted through. >-->* Bumpers are a little wavy. >-->* The paint is old, I believe original. >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2006 22:50:18 -0800 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: RE: fsj: NP208 oil pump housing seal replacement A: The [ of the seal faces towards the oil you want to keep in place. build your truck right the first time! Does anyone know what direction to install the seal in an NP208 oil pump housing? The Jeep TSM says to install it so the lip faces in inside of the case (the oil pump housing is a plastic plate like thing that goes on the rear output shaft inside the tail shaft housing). I would interpret that to mean: seal ---> --- / / <--- rubber part of seal (lip?) - ---------------------------------------------------------------- Output shaft - ---------------------------------------------------------------- \ <--- rubber part of seal (lip?) Inside of case \ --- Rear bearing, seal Hope this highly detailed drawing comes through okay. Am I interpreting what is meant by "seal lip facing the inside of the case" correctly? What really has me worried is this is backwards to how the seal was installed. Thanks! - -brad Just $16.99/mo. or less. dsl.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee. Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2006 23:06:23 -0800 From: john meister Subject: Re: fsj: NP208 oil pump housing seal replacement excellent info jim... makes perfect sense, thanx! I like your drawing too... ;) john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jim Blair wrote: > A: The [ of the seal faces towards the oil you want to keep in place. > > build your truck right the first time! > > Does anyone know what direction to install the seal in > an NP208 oil pump housing? The Jeep TSM says to > install it so the lip faces in inside of the case (the > oil pump housing is a plastic plate like thing that > goes on the rear output shaft inside the tail shaft > housing). I would interpret that to mean: > > > seal ---> --- > / > / <--- rubber part of seal > (lip?) > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > Output shaft > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > \ <--- rubber part of seal > (lip?) > Inside of case \ > --- Rear > bearing, seal > > > Hope this highly detailed drawing comes through okay. > > Am I interpreting what is meant by "seal lip facing > the inside of the case" correctly? > > What really has me worried is this is backwards to how > the seal was installed. > > Thanks! > > -brad > Just $16.99/mo. or less. > dsl.yahoo.com > > _________________________________________________________________ > Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee. > Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 06:50:41 -0500 From: "Neal Hoover" Subject: fsj: travelers is anyone planning on making a trek from the SLC, Utah region towards Louisville, KY any time soon? i'm looking for somone who would be willing to carry an axle housing. will help pay for some fuel. thanks! Neal A. Hoover Project '76 J-10 Project '96 XJ http://community.webshots.com/user/proj96xj ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 07:51:12 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: books On Thu, 5 Jan 2006, Stef wrote: >-->Can you tel me what are the cost from a MR253 >-->and can you find the other parts ? I'll do some research, but am also going to post this to the FSJ list as others might know of a source. I believe I bought my copy on ebay or from a used book reseller. You could search ebay, halfbooks.com and amazon.com (If you go to amazon.com, please go from the link on wagoneers.com) As far as the parts, are you talking about the tailgate parts? john >--> >-->Stef >--> >--> >-->----- Oorspronkelijk bericht ----- >-->Van: "john" >-->Aan: "Stef" >-->CC: "full size jeep list" >-->Verzonden: woensdag 4 januari 2006 20:31 >-->Onderwerp: Re: books >--> >--> >-->> >-->> you'll want to get an MR253 >-->> >-->> I have a few pages on my server: >-->> >-->> http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/tech/MR253 >-->> >-->> john >-->> >-->> On Wed, 4 Jan 2006, Stef wrote: >-->> >-->> >-->John, >-->> >--> >-->> >-->New question, the drawing from the tailgate i show you from which >-->repair >-->> >-->manual is that, it is a copy from your site >-->http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/tech/Tailgate-Manual >-->> >-->Have you books with several drawings from wagoneer parts if so i like >-->to buy >-->> >-->such book, let me know. >-->> >--> >-->> >-->Thanks, Stef >-->> >-->> ---- >-->> >-->> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->> ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** >-->> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold >-->> ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** >-->> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->> >-->> >-->> >--> >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 07:53:52 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: travelers you should check with FedEx, they might move it... also a trucking company would ship it on a pallet. est. $150 to $250 tops. Even greyhound might carry it... john On Thu, 5 Jan 2006, Neal Hoover wrote: >-->is anyone planning on making a trek from the SLC, Utah region towards >-->Louisville, KY any time soon? >-->i'm looking for somone who would be willing to carry an axle housing. will >-->help pay for some fuel. >-->thanks! >--> >-->Neal A. Hoover >-->Project '76 J-10 >-->Project '96 XJ >-->http://community.webshots.com/user/proj96xj >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 08:31:19 -0800 (PST) From: Brad Seevers Subject: RE: fsj: NP208 oil pump housing seal replacement Thanks Jim. In this case there is oil on both sides of the seal. The seal is part of the NP208 oil pump. So I guess I need to figure out which side of the seal is the pressure side, and that will tell me everything. - -brad > A: The [ of the seal faces towards the oil you want > to keep in place. > > build your truck right the first time! > > Does anyone know what direction to install the seal > in > an NP208 oil pump housing? The Jeep TSM says to > install it so the lip faces in inside of the case > (the > oil pump housing is a plastic plate like thing that > goes on the rear output shaft inside the tail shaft > housing). I would interpret that to mean: > > > seal ---> --- > / > / <--- rubber part of seal > (lip?) > - ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > Output shaft > > - ---------------------------------------------------------------- > \ <--- rubber part of seal > (lip?) > Inside of case \ > --- Rear > bearing, seal > > > Hope this highly detailed drawing comes through > okay. > > Am I interpreting what is meant by "seal lip facing > the inside of the case" correctly? > > What really has me worried is this is backwards to > how > the seal was installed. > > Thanks! > > -brad > Just $16.99/mo. or less. > dsl.yahoo.com > > _________________________________________________________________ > Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer > virus scan from McAfee. > Security. > http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 Just $16.99/mo. or less. dsl.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2006 22:10:10 -0600 From: JeepNut Subject: Re: fsj: xj rims=rear bumper damage I dunno if I'd go too wild with the iron back there. Honestly I would say that "the iron" is what did Rez Runner in. The kid that rearended it was driving a full size older Caddy so THAT didn't help, but Vince had an MOMMA of a bumper back there. (?Killer 32? i think...) But when it got rear ended, mostly only the top tube of the bumper crushed, taking away some force, but then little else on the bumper bent. Just enough metal on the bumper crushed up to the face of the mounting bracket but those are SOME mounting brackets and they didn't give at all... but the Rightside frame of the Rez buckled downward J U S T behind the apex of the frame curvature over the rear axle. Don't have to be a physicist to figure out why that happened... "Super-strong" is no better than just "strong" when the strength is between force and a weaker link.... But, Hey, I gotta say I'm impressed by yer Chrysler Jeep and a little bit surprised actually. I'm just an old fart that can't let go of ... "they don't build 'em like they used to"... I just disregard some of the other finishes I've heard folks put on that ol' saw... lol... Glad the Jeep name was preserved properly and that it was a minor event. What the heck kind of Toyota took $2K worth from a love tap? JeepNut john wrote: >was meeting up with jim blair to get an xj rim for my son's xj... >just sitting in the parking lot in bothell minding my own business >and CRUNCH... someone in a Toyota backs into the rear of my WJ. > >haven't crawled underneath yet, it popped one of the buttons off >the plastic valence, tore the plastic a bit... the toyota actually >hit the tailgate handle... I'm guessing about $2,000 damage to >the toyota, probably around $200 to mine... will get it looked >at to make sure the bumper support didn't get tweaked... the plastic >valence might be repairable... if it's just the plastic piece it'll >only cost the guy just under $200 to fix my WJ. I'm not going to >charge him for labor or anything... the guy was from Oregon (about >200 miles or so from home) and seemed a bit flakey, so I may end >up seeing nothing out of this... will post pictures in a bit at: >http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2006/crunch-Jan-2 > >dave on the xj/wj list, what's the link to a "REAL" bumper for >a WJ again? ;) of course had this been an XJ the bumper would >have been destroyed... I'm sure an FSJ with an aluminum bumper >would have been tweaked too... (post '80). If I'd been in >shadowfax it would have ridden up over the bumper and done massive >damage to my benz... not sure why the guy didn't impale himself >on my hitch... rats... need more iron back there... > >john > > ---- > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** > Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > - -- Email is subject to change without notice Do not hold in hand! Light Email and get away! Ask us about our Guns-For-Email trade-in plan You need not be present to win - ---------------------------------------------------------- '87 Street Comanche #24/100 - offline '88 Grand Wagoneer - '81 AMC 360 -.030 over- Edelbrock Performer/1400 600cfm 4bbl, TFI System upgrade, TF727 -mild kit- NP229, D44's F/R -3:31- B.J.'s Offroad 6" kit/ drop pittman, stainless extended brake lines, ProComp 3000 shocks, Maxxis Buckshot 33x12.5x15 14 Spoke OEM Wagonwheels, IPF 65/55 lamps...and then some. '92 Cherokee Laredo - Bone stock '87 Grand Wagoneer - parts '81 Wagoneer - parts ...and they say there's only one... - ---------------------------------------------------------- Registered Linux user #287453 ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #2563 **************************