From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Fri Jun 30 10:34:35 2006 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Friday, June 30 2006 Volume 01 : Number 2663 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: RE: fsj: Article on ethanol and possible engine impacts (fwd) RE: fsj: Trip to Hawaii RE: fsj: Trip to Hawaii fsj: cheap winch? Re: fsj: cheap winch? Re: fsj: Trip to Hawaii Re: fsj: cheap winch? fsj: RE: cheap winch? RE: fsj: Trip to Hawaii FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2006 00:07:48 +0000 From: "michel balea" Subject: RE: fsj: Article on ethanol and possible engine impacts (fwd) the other problem is $$$, for every gallon produce the feds are paying $0.51 in aid...... and this money is coming from....... our pockets cheers Michel 74 wag From: john Reply-To: john To: lasikeyes , diesel-benz list , full size jeep list , xj-list , WJ-Grand-at-yahoogroups.com, classic willys mail list Subject: fsj: Article on ethanol and possible engine impacts (fwd) Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 10:42:17 -0700 (PDT) FYI ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Peter Samson See below. Might be a consideration for you re washing of the cylinders? The article discusses aviation engines, but aviation/car is still an internal-combustion engine. Peter Ethanol's lower energy content another problem for aviation Ben Sclair 6/23/2006 A few issues back I discussed possible fuel handling problems with a proposed ethanol aviation fuel. In this column I would like to discuss energy content. In Dr. Dennis Helder's "Investigation of Ethanol as a General Aviation Fuel-Final Report" there is a line that reads "This 48% increase in fuel flow also occurs at best economy operation." One needs to think about a 48% increase in fuel consumption for a minute. First, the range of every aircraft will need to be de-rated. For example, if your aircraft is presently capable of going 600 miles on full fuel, with the ethanol fuel you will be looking for an airport prior to going 400 miles. That is a rather significant change. The cause of this increase in fuel consumption is the lower energy content of ethanol. Conventional hydrocarbon fuels contain around 115,000 btus (British thermal units) of energy per gallon compared to ethanol, which contains about 76,000 btus per gallon. This means that the first step for anyone to use ethanol is to re-jet the carburetor. One concern here is if this fuel were introduced, pilots might try a tank full or part of a tank and find themselves flying in a very lean condition. The fuel that Dr. Helder is testing is called AGE-85 (Aviation Grade Ethanol), which contains 80-85% ethanol, a pentane isomerate stream and about 0.5% biodiesel. This fuel would lean out most aircraft engines to the lean side of stoichiometric even at a full rich setting. This would mean a significant decrease in max power. If the pilot mixed 100LL and AGE-85, he could find a mixture that would lean out the engine just enough so that the engine is running at stoichiometric, which would result in peak cylinder head and exhaust temperatures running above allowable limits. All of this leads to the conclusion that if AGE-85 were introduced, it could only be used in aircraft modified for and totally dedicated to using just the one fuel. There could be no cross blending. The other major concern is engine durability. If one is introducing 48% more fuel into a cylinder, what effect will that have on cylinder wear and crankcase oil dilution? The reason that AGE-85 contains 15% of a hydrocarbon fuel is for starting. Straight ethanol is not volatile enough to facilitate normal easy starting. This is especially true at colder temperatures. So on a cold start and until the engine is warmed up, a significant amount of the ethanol enters the cylinders in a liquid state. This will cause washing of the cylinders, increased crankcase dilution and other possible problems. In earlier work, when high alcohol content fuels were used in automotive engines, high cylinder wear was noted on almost every test. Now, I do not have any data on aircraft engine wear on alcohol fuels. But I think that would be something that should be investigated before they go too much further with their research. I do not want to sound too negative here. I know that ethanol is a very popular issue with politicians. But I always go back to the old saying that the top three attributes of any new aviation product should be 1. No in flight problems, 2. No in flight problems, and 3. No in flight problems. Ben Visser is an aviation fuels and lubricants expert who spent 33 years with Shell Oil. He has been a private pilot since 1985. You can contact him at Visser-at-GeneralAviationNews.com. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2006 00:15:58 +0000 From: "michel balea" Subject: RE: fsj: Trip to Hawaii Last time i went (1999) in december, i used public transit.... the best decision ever... buses go all over.... and you can hop from beaches to beaches.... about $1 a trip... they may even have weekly passes..... so no problem parking in the popular spots. $1000..... a bit pricey.... I know that you can rent scooter..... Cheers Michel 74 wag From: "Paul and Megan Kershner" Reply-To: "Paul and Megan Kershner" To: Subject: RE: fsj: Trip to Hawaii Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 18:40:17 -0700 You guys don't understand what I'm getting at... I need a ride. That's all. I'm not trying to go 'wheelin' - just trying to avoid the $1000+ rental charge for a big car, SUV or MiniVan. I'll pay a fair price for the rental, but that is awful, especially when you consider how much I'll need to spend on gas... pk - -----Original Message----- From: john [mailto:john-at-superdawg.wagoneers.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 1:07 PM To: Jim Blair Cc: pk.mlk-at-verizon.net; FSJ-at-digest.net Subject: RE: fsj: Trip to Hawaii except on the north end of the island... there is a "road" that rental cars are not permitted on... goes around the northwest horn and back down to the west side... john On Wed, 28 Jun 2006, Jim Blair wrote: > -->A: I read someplace that the extended version of the TJ is available for > -->rent there but they are only 2wd. 4 wheeling is almost non-existent there. > --> > --> > -->Anyone have a Grand Wagoneer or Cherokee on the Big Island you want to rent? > -->Alternately, any kind of 'larger' vehicle that will hold 2-3 adults and 3 > -->kids will do. > --> > --> > --> > -->I need a vehicle for July 10th thru July 21st. > --> > --> > --> > -->Thanks, > --> > -->Paul K > -->http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ > --> > --> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 18:14:33 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: RE: fsj: Trip to Hawaii I can just see Paul, his wife... and three kids... on scooters... thanx, I needed that visual... :) john On Fri, 30 Jun 2006, michel balea wrote: > -->Last time i went (1999) in december, i used public transit.... the best > -->decision ever... buses go all over.... and you can hop from beaches to > -->beaches.... about $1 a trip... they may even have weekly passes..... so no > -->problem parking in the popular spots. > --> > -->$1000..... a bit pricey.... > --> > -->I know that you can rent scooter..... > --> > -->Cheers > --> > -->Michel > -->74 wag > --> > -->From: "Paul and Megan Kershner" > -->Reply-To: "Paul and Megan Kershner" > -->To: > -->Subject: RE: fsj: Trip to Hawaii > -->Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 18:40:17 -0700 > --> > -->You guys don't understand what I'm getting at... > --> > -->I need a ride. That's all. I'm not trying to go 'wheelin' - just trying to > -->avoid the $1000+ rental charge for a big car, SUV or MiniVan. I'll pay a > -->fair price for the rental, but that is awful, especially when you consider > -->how much I'll need to spend on gas... > --> > -->pk > --> > -->-----Original Message----- > -->From: john [mailto:john-at-superdawg.wagoneers.com] > -->Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 1:07 PM > -->To: Jim Blair > -->Cc: pk.mlk-at-verizon.net; FSJ-at-digest.net > -->Subject: RE: fsj: Trip to Hawaii > --> > --> > -->except on the north end of the island... there is a "road" that rental > -->cars are not permitted on... goes around the northwest horn and back down > -->to the west side... > --> > -->john > --> > -->On Wed, 28 Jun 2006, Jim Blair wrote: > --> > -->> --> A: I read someplace that the extended version of the TJ is > -->> --> available > -->for > -->> --> rent there but they are only 2wd. 4 wheeling is almost > -->> --> non-existent > -->there. > -->> --> > -->> --> > -->> --> Anyone have a Grand Wagoneer or Cherokee on the Big Island you > -->> --> want to > -->rent? > -->> --> Alternately, any kind of 'larger' vehicle that will hold 2-3 > -->> --> adults > -->and > -->3 > -->> --> kids will do. > -->> --> > -->> --> > -->> --> > -->> --> I need a vehicle for July 10th thru July 21st. > -->> --> > -->> --> > -->> --> > -->> --> Thanks, > -->> --> > -->> --> Paul K > -->> --> http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ > -->> --> > -->> --> > --> > --> ---- > --> > -->------------------------------------------------------------------------- > --> ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** > --> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > --> ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** > -->------------------------------------------------------------------------- > --> > --> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 18:36:15 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: cheap winch? happened by costco this evening and found an 8,000lb winch for $299.99 http://cpeauto.com/de8000lb_winch.htm If I could adapt this to attach to a receiver hitch... The Warn 8k is on sale at fourwheel parts wholesaler for close to $600. john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 21:48:52 -0500 From: JeepNut Subject: Re: fsj: cheap winch? Mile Markers what I'm looking at. Have been highly recommended to me. Looks like a proven tool. www.milemarker.com I've seen the 9K version on sale -at- $499 online A 9.5K in the Whitney online site is showing at $569.99 An 8K $449.99 Northern.com (which isn't known for particularly stellar prices in my opinion) even have these Mile Markers at: $469.99 for a 9K $449.99 for the 8K $549.99 for the 9.5k and I've seen the 9.5K on sale for $499 at some online sites... john wrote: >happened by costco this evening and found an 8,000lb winch for $299.99 > >http://cpeauto.com/de8000lb_winch.htm > >If I could adapt this to attach to a receiver hitch... > >The Warn 8k is on sale at fourwheel parts wholesaler for close to $600. > >john > > ---- > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** > Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > - -- Email was full when packed. Contents may settle during mailing. Avoid inhaling fumes or contact with mucous membranes. Vir prudens non contra ventum mingit. - ---------------------------------------------------------- '87 Street Comanche #24/100 - offline '88 Grand Wagoneer - '81 AMC 360 -.030 over- Edelbrock Performer/1400 600cfm 4bbl, TFI System upgrade, TF727 -mild kit- NP229, D44's F/R -3:31- B.J.'s Offroad 6" kit/ drop pittman, stainless extended brake lines, ProComp 3000 shocks, Maxxis Buckshot 33x12.5x15 14 Spoke OEM Wagonwheels, IPF 65/55 lamps...and then some. '92 Cherokee Laredo - Bone stock '87 Grand Wagoneer - parts '81 Wagoneer - parts ...and they say there's only one... - ---------------------------------------------------------- Registered Linux user #287453 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 21:50:47 -0500 From: JeepNut Subject: Re: fsj: Trip to Hawaii I think there's a Hawaii dude on the MJ list... I'll see if I can flush him out and get you some info..... There's definately wheelin' done there, even if that isn't your interest... will let ya know... Paul and Megan Kershner wrote: >You guys don't understand what I'm getting at... > >I need a ride. That's all. I'm not trying to go 'wheelin' - just trying to >avoid the $1000+ rental charge for a big car, SUV or MiniVan. I'll pay a >fair price for the rental, but that is awful, especially when you consider >how much I'll need to spend on gas... > >pk > >-----Original Message----- >From: john [mailto:john-at-superdawg.wagoneers.com] >Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 1:07 PM >To: Jim Blair >Cc: pk.mlk-at-verizon.net; FSJ-at-digest.net >Subject: RE: fsj: Trip to Hawaii > > >except on the north end of the island... there is a "road" that rental >cars are not permitted on... goes around the northwest horn and back down >to the west side... > >john > >On Wed, 28 Jun 2006, Jim Blair wrote: > > > >>-->A: I read someplace that the extended version of the TJ is available >> >> >for > > >>-->rent there but they are only 2wd. 4 wheeling is almost non-existent >> >> >there. > > >>--> >>--> >>-->Anyone have a Grand Wagoneer or Cherokee on the Big Island you want to >> >> >rent? > > >>-->Alternately, any kind of 'larger' vehicle that will hold 2-3 adults and >> >> >3 > > >>-->kids will do. >>--> >>--> >>--> >>-->I need a vehicle for July 10th thru July 21st. >>--> >>--> >>--> >>-->Thanks, >>--> >>-->Paul K >>-->http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ >>--> >>--> >> >> > > ---- > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** > Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > - -- Email was full when packed. Contents may settle during mailing. Avoid inhaling fumes or contact with mucous membranes. Vir prudens non contra ventum mingit. - ---------------------------------------------------------- '87 Street Comanche #24/100 - offline '88 Grand Wagoneer - '81 AMC 360 -.030 over- Edelbrock Performer/1400 600cfm 4bbl, TFI System upgrade, TF727 -mild kit- NP229, D44's F/R -3:31- B.J.'s Offroad 6" kit/ drop pittman, stainless extended brake lines, ProComp 3000 shocks, Maxxis Buckshot 33x12.5x15 14 Spoke OEM Wagonwheels, IPF 65/55 lamps...and then some. '92 Cherokee Laredo - Bone stock '87 Grand Wagoneer - parts '81 Wagoneer - parts ...and they say there's only one... - ---------------------------------------------------------- Registered Linux user #287453 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 21:52:43 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: cheap winch? not been impressed by milemarker or superwinch... I prefer Warn, but for as little as I'll use this thing I'm thinking this will work well... just need to fabricate a receiver hitch so I can move it between my jeeps... john On Thu, 29 Jun 2006, JeepNut wrote: > -->Mile Markers what I'm looking at. > -->Have been highly recommended to me. > -->Looks like a proven tool. www.milemarker.com > --> > -->I've seen the 9K version on sale -at- $499 online > -->A 9.5K in the Whitney online site is showing at $569.99 > -->An 8K $449.99 > -->Northern.com (which isn't known for particularly stellar prices in my > -->opinion) even have these Mile Markers at: > -->$469.99 for a 9K > -->$449.99 for the 8K > -->$549.99 for the 9.5k > -->and I've seen the 9.5K on sale for $499 at some online sites... > --> > --> > -->john wrote: > --> > -->> happened by costco this evening and found an 8,000lb winch for $299.99 > -->> > -->> http://cpeauto.com/de8000lb_winch.htm > -->> > -->> If I could adapt this to attach to a receiver hitch... > -->> The Warn 8k is on sale at fourwheel parts wholesaler for close to $600. > -->> > -->> john > -->> > -->> ---- > -->> > -->> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -->> ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** > -->> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > -->> ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** > -->> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -->> > -->> > -->> > --> > --> > -->-- > -->Email was full when packed. Contents may settle during mailing. > -->Avoid inhaling fumes or contact with mucous membranes. > -->Vir prudens non contra ventum mingit. > -->---------------------------------------------------------- > -->'87 Street Comanche #24/100 - offline > -->'88 Grand Wagoneer > --> - '81 AMC 360 -.030 over- Edelbrock Performer/1400 600cfm 4bbl, > -->TFI System upgrade, TF727 -mild kit- NP229, D44's F/R -3:31- > -->B.J.'s Offroad 6" kit/ drop pittman, stainless extended brake lines, ProComp > -->3000 shocks, Maxxis Buckshot 33x12.5x15 14 Spoke OEM Wagonwheels, IPF 65/55 > -->lamps...and then some. > -->'92 Cherokee Laredo - Bone stock > -->'87 Grand Wagoneer - parts > -->'81 Wagoneer - parts > -->...and they say there's only one... > -->---------------------------------------------------------- > -->Registered Linux user #287453 > --> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2006 07:36:18 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: RE: cheap winch? On Fri, 30 Jun 2006, Don wrote: >-->BTW, the winch mount that you are talking about is called a Multi Mount, and >-->it hooks into a 2 inch receiver. >-->http://www.monstermarketplace.com/Automotive/Landing481a4578.html yes, that's what I was looking for, and below that they have the rear cable kit... of course those two items cost more than the winch itself... might just get welding cable and make my own extension kit. ;) Multi Mount Portable Winch Carrier Your Price: $177.68 24' Quick Connect Power Cable, For Rear Of Vehicle Your Price: $156.00 john >--> >--> >--> >-->happened by costco this evening and found an 8,000lb winch for $299.99 >-->http://cpeauto. >-->com/de8000lb_winch.htm >-->If I could adapt this to attach to a receiver hitch... >-->The Warn 8k is on sale at fourwheel parts wholesaler for close to $600. >-->john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2006 17:32:16 +0000 From: "michel balea" Subject: RE: fsj: Trip to Hawaii Glad i could entertain you :-) i guess the side car would be perfect then..... Michel From: john Reply-To: john To: michel balea CC: pk.mlk-at-verizon.net, FSJ-at-digest.net Subject: RE: fsj: Trip to Hawaii Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 18:14:33 -0700 (PDT) I can just see Paul, his wife... and three kids... on scooters... thanx, I needed that visual... :) john On Fri, 30 Jun 2006, michel balea wrote: > -->Last time i went (1999) in december, i used public transit.... the best > -->decision ever... buses go all over.... and you can hop from beaches to > -->beaches.... about $1 a trip... they may even have weekly passes..... so no > -->problem parking in the popular spots. > --> > -->$1000..... a bit pricey.... > --> > -->I know that you can rent scooter..... > --> > -->Cheers > --> > -->Michel > -->74 wag > --> > -->From: "Paul and Megan Kershner" > -->Reply-To: "Paul and Megan Kershner" > -->To: > -->Subject: RE: fsj: Trip to Hawaii > -->Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 18:40:17 -0700 > --> > -->You guys don't understand what I'm getting at... > --> > -->I need a ride. That's all. I'm not trying to go 'wheelin' - just trying to > -->avoid the $1000+ rental charge for a big car, SUV or MiniVan. I'll pay a > -->fair price for the rental, but that is awful, especially when you consider > -->how much I'll need to spend on gas... > --> > -->pk > --> > -->-----Original Message----- > -->From: john [mailto:john-at-superdawg.wagoneers.com] > -->Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 1:07 PM > -->To: Jim Blair > -->Cc: pk.mlk-at-verizon.net; FSJ-at-digest.net > -->Subject: RE: fsj: Trip to Hawaii > --> > --> > -->except on the north end of the island... there is a "road" that rental > -->cars are not permitted on... goes around the northwest horn and back down > -->to the west side... > --> > -->john > --> > -->On Wed, 28 Jun 2006, Jim Blair wrote: > --> > -->> --> A: I read someplace that the extended version of the TJ is > -->> --> available > -->for > -->> --> rent there but they are only 2wd. 4 wheeling is almost > -->> --> non-existent > -->there. > -->> --> > -->> --> > -->> --> Anyone have a Grand Wagoneer or Cherokee on the Big Island you > -->> --> want to > -->rent? > -->> --> Alternately, any kind of 'larger' vehicle that will hold 2-3 > -->> --> adults > -->and > -->3 > -->> --> kids will do. > -->> --> > -->> --> > -->> --> > -->> --> I need a vehicle for July 10th thru July 21st. > -->> --> > -->> --> > -->> --> > -->> --> Thanks, > -->> --> > -->> --> Paul K > -->> --> http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ > -->> --> > -->> --> > --> > --> ---- > --> > - -->------------------------------------------------------------------------- > --> ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** > --> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > --> ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** > - -->------------------------------------------------------------------------- > --> > --> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #2663 **************************