From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Sat Sep 16 11:29:01 2006 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Saturday, September 16 2006 Volume 01 : Number 2702 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: RE: [db] 6.2 diesel and buying projects(LONG) fsj: Re: [db] FINALLY, an engineer that changes their own oil! fsj: RE: FINALLY, an engineer that changes their own oil! FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 10:22:01 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: RE: [db] 6.2 diesel and buying projects(LONG) RE: Waylon's Wisdom on Wheels, Weeds and other Wonders - --------------------------------------------------------- Waylon, You speak true words of wisdom... (see Waylon's discourse below) I like the part about the middle of nowhere now being the middle of somewhere. 2 acres ain't what it used to be. Six hours of staring at your decision can indeed be painful. That's why I usually have such things delivered to me. :) Thankfully, my wonderful bride has helped me in my addiction/obsession by limiting my current fleet to just a handful... Of course with the help of friends with the same affliction I have managed to distribute my collection a bit more than I should have. This was not intentional and complicates the issue. ;) I'm sitting up here with two of my prized possessions in pieces 105 miles south of here and no time to go down to help. That in and of itself isn't a problem... it's when they come home that the fun begins... which one(s) to keep? While we have the room for more than what I have, in the name of neighborly concern and as part of the ever growing garden projects, I am overruled. ;) But in reality, I agree, I don't need three, four or more vehicles... I want just ONE that does everything. With ONE vehicle I know where all my best tools are. I know where my sunglasses are. I know where my tow chain is... where my coffee cup is... where my cell phone headset and charger are... where my music is... etc. That ONE vehicle needs to: - must get good mileage / fuel economy! - must be a DIESEL - must be a 4x4 - must be an automatic - must have a sunroof/moonroof - must have A/C - must have cruise control - must have receiver hitchs - must be able to tow my trailer (J10 hydraulic dump) - must be able to carry passengers (at least 2) - must be computer carry friendly (dry cargo area) - must be "cool", classic and desireable - must pass the spouse acceptance test (redneck/cammo doesn't fly) - must be capable of surviving encounters with trees and subcompacts current fleet (and locations, if not here & probable outcome): - '99 Grand Cherokee WJ 4.7L V8 Quadradrive - KEEP(100%) - '48 CJ-2A - (most likely KEEP-MLK) (MLK-80%) (Alpha) - '75 J10 hydraulic dump trailer - KEEP (90%) - '91 300D 2.5L Turbo Diesel - most likely SELL(85%) (Shadowfax) (depends on how Omega turns out... ) - '91 Grand Wagoneer SJ getting 6.2L Diesel, Centralia - KEEP(90%) (Omega) - '83 J10 Stepside - 4.2? 4.0? ?? - Centralia - ??? after 5 years it's hard to remember why I liked this truck so much... (Superdawg) - '67 J100 Panel - Centralia - going to Curtis (Rambo) - '79 J10 Golden Eagle - Centralia - going to Curtis (Hooch) Most likely "final" fleet (popcorn chompers keep quiet): '99 WJ, '91 GW, '48 CJ-2A and ('75 J10 trailer or '83 J10 stepside) (the cj-2a doesn't count as a "vehicle", that's my story and I'm sticking to it.) So my "ONE" vehicle will most likely be the '91 Grand Wagoneer with a 6.2L Diesel... but since I haven't driven this rig more than 100 feet, we'll see... pass the popcorn... ;) john =================================================================== On Fri, 15 Sep 2006, Black, Waylon wrote: Total? - THREE digits. :( Like anything - too much is not a good thing. When I was younger, I thought I was 'rescuing' derelicts. Sure - I have some rare cars - 71 Super B, 70 Coronet RT, 68 Charger, 87, 88, & 89 Shelby CSXs, THREE Shelby Lancers, numerous Shelby Chargers/Omni turbos, but if I drove a different one each day I would only drive them 12 times a year. Being quite poor - I thought I could buy cheap, fix, resell and make a profit. A way to make money with my hobby - per se. As my income increased, I bought 'nicer' projects to tinker with - Volvos/Mercedes. Now my passion has become somewhat of a curse. I bought 2 acres in the middle of nowhere about 10 years ago(when I only had 13 projects). Middle of nowhere has now turned into middle of somewhere and now I want to move. My projects have me 'tied' down. I fully understand the teachings of 'gluttony' now. I now try to counsel anyone that will listen. Rules for the list members. There will ALWAYS be a BETTER deal down the road. Nothing like finding a BETTER car/truck for LESS money within week of buying one(because you NO LONGER have any money to buy the better one). NEVER have more than 2-3 dead cars/trucks if you EVER intend to move. NEVER down a running car. If you want to rebuild the engine/trans - buy a core. NEVER buy a project right after looking at it - give it a few days for reality to set in. My first Mercedes was a 1983 300 SD for $1500 - 5 years ago. My most recent was a MUCH nicer 84 300D turbo diesel for $400.00 - so that makes THREE, clean, nice diesel MBs for $500.00 or less. Makes me feel stoopid for spending $1500 for ONE. To find the good deals - look in the back lots of used car lots/repair shops. Use friends and Craigslist and sometimes ebay. Reality is that you can/will find a RUNNING/NICER example for $1000 or less. PLUS - pulling up in a nice, running example is a VERY effective tool for bargaining your next purchase. Waylon Black Little Elm, Texas - -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2006 11:07 AM To: Black, Waylon Cc: diesel-benz-at-digest.net Subject: Re: [db] 6.2 diesel the '82's were a bit problematic... but if it had an updated IP and trans rebuild it should be fine... glowplug controller, filter assemblies, fuel sending unit setup... too bad you're so far away... :) so, Waylon, what's your total, current and running... http://wagoneers.com/johns-vehicles.html (I could easily pick up a few more to increase my count... ;) john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2006 08:49:09 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: [db] FINALLY, an engineer that changes their own oil! actually, it's well tucked up inside... the problem is the independent front suspension... NO GROUND CLEARANCE... ain't no jeep... That big old hunk of metal/skid plate not only protects the engine, it also protects the operator from going down a "dangerous" trail, just like a toyota... or a chevy... on my '85 xj with the renault 2.1L turbo Diesel there were TWO drain plugs... still well protected... oh yeah, just try to lift that KJ... get your wallet and line of credit ready... they ruined the WJ the same way... no, wait, they killed the WJ, it's now the WK or something without a J... and of course they couldn't ruin the KJ, it came that way, compliments of the benz folks, obviously... same thing happened when chrysler bought jeep, they came out with the ZJ... As far as that Diesel... I don't think it's a VM, which is owned by Detroit Diesel, but isn't the CRD a Mercedes engine??? either way, it's a good engine, components are well protected, this is a WORTHY transplant for a real Jeep. :) john On Sat, 16 Sep 2006, ernest breakfield wrote: >-->of course, if that filter is as exposed as it appears to be in that pic >-->and not protected by anything (like an easily removed skid plate), i'd >-->like to beat to a senseless pulp the idiot that thought that was a good >-->idea on anything wearing a J**p emblem! >--> >--> of course, there doesn't seem to be anyone at DCX that understands that >-->the Wrangler isn't the only J**p that we want to drive off-road, and >-->most Libby drivers will probably never take one anywhere more >-->challenging than a gentle dirt track, so (as the saying goes) it's not >-->likely they're going to "...understand" either. >--> >--> >-->cheers! >-->e >--> >-->(who happens to have both a Diesel Benz and an XJ, making it only >-->marginally more on-topic for this list) >--> >--> >--> >-->> Have a look at this: >-->> >-->> >-->> >-->> I'd like to find that Italian Diesel engine designer and buy them a beer. >-->> >-->> -- >-->> --chuck goolsbee >-->> 02 Jetta TDi & 06 Liberty CRD >-->> arlington, wa, usa >-->> >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2006 11:27:51 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: RE: FINALLY, an engineer that changes their own oil! http://www.vmmotori.it/en/01/01/index.jsp (VM Motori is part of Detroit Diesel) http://www.vmmotori.it/en/01/01/dettAutoOggi.jsp?autoId=53 http://www.popularmechanics.com/blog/automotive/2422231.html http://www.popularmechanics.com/blog/automotive/2422231.html?c=y&imageID=894586&caption=CRD%3DCommon+Rail+Diesel A Little More Info On Our Jeep Liberty CRD CRD=Common Rail Diesel Okay, as promised here's what we found out from DaimlerChrysler: the regional techs replaced the entire throttle body on the Liberty's little Italian-built 2.8-liter four-cylinder turbodiesel because of either 1. the possibility of temperature swing-induced leakage at the clamping areas, or 2. possible stripped teeth on a motor-driven, spring-loaded air management valve integral with the throttle body. We believe that's a fair assessment because 1. No matter how many diagnostic trouble trees a tech completes, sometimes he just has to start thinking past his nose and let his black magic experience take over, and 2. this is the first application of this powertrain in a U.S.-spec Liberty so there are practically no past service issues to draw on. Plus, the Check Engine light is staying off, which likely means they nailed it. The EGR valve apparently was never a real issue, but was replaced twice because the engine management system kept spitting out codes that led Manhattan Jeep down that line of diagnostics. Hopefully, they'll know better next time. True, we're not strapped for a daily driver the way the typical Jeep Liberty CRD owner might have been under the same circumstances. So it's easier for us to say this was a well-handled, professional service experience. But we also didn't get any special treatment. Sometimes fixing modern cars just isn't that straightforward.--Ken Juran On Sat, 16 Sep 2006, michel balea wrote: > --> > -->Impressive... Italian engine.... from Fiat.... or Ferrarri.... > --> > -->I always grumble when changing the oil.... the 74 has a center oil plug.... > -->while the 85 has a very well designed side discharge.... but on the wrong > -->side -the driver side pumpkin- I always thought that when i have time.... i > -->would put an 85 oil pan on the 74 so it discharges away from any hard > -->parts..... > --> > -->In the same line.... the wrangler gear box.... the drain is easy to find... > -->but the refill... i have not located it yet.... most of the side bolts have > -->a stamp "do not remove" > --> > -->In fact talking about DCM..... the user's forums always have an add for the > -->non crawling oil change.... they drop a hose (tube) down the dipstick and > -->use vacuum "oversized vacuumed container" to suck the oil out.... > --> > -->Which reminds me that my Father had an italian car "lancia" where there was > -->no diptick tube... just an dash indicator... It was always fun when the guys > -->at the service stations wanted to check your oil.... we do not have a > -->dipstick.... and the guys always challenged him..... Looked right and > -->left.... > --> > -->Now we need an EE that does their own upgrade/update > --> > -->or better a 6"2 airplane designer that flies coach from the west coast to > -->china everyweek > --> > -->cheers > --> > -->Michel > --> > --> > -->From: john > -->Reply-To: john > -->To: ernest breakfield > -->CC: chuck goolsbee , xj-list , full size > -->jeep list , diesel-benz list > -->Subject: fsj: Re: [db] FINALLY, an engineer that changes their own oil! > -->Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2006 08:49:09 -0700 (PDT) > --> > -->actually, it's well tucked up inside... the > -->problem is the independent front suspension... NO GROUND > -->CLEARANCE... ain't no jeep... That big old hunk > -->of metal/skid plate not only protects the engine, > -->it also protects the operator from going down > -->a "dangerous" trail, just like a toyota... or a chevy... > --> > -->on my '85 xj with the renault 2.1L turbo Diesel there > -->were TWO drain plugs... still well protected... > --> > -->oh yeah, just try to lift that KJ... get your > -->wallet and line of credit ready... > --> > -->they ruined the WJ the same way... no, wait, they killed > -->the WJ, it's now the WK or something without a J... and of course > -->they couldn't ruin the KJ, it came that way, compliments > -->of the benz folks, obviously... same thing happened > -->when chrysler bought jeep, they came out with the ZJ... > --> > -->As far as that Diesel... I don't think it's a VM, which > -->is owned by Detroit Diesel, but > -->isn't the CRD a Mercedes engine??? > --> > -->either way, it's a good engine, components are well protected, > -->this is a WORTHY transplant for a real Jeep. :) > --> > -->john > --> > -->On Sat, 16 Sep 2006, ernest breakfield wrote: > --> > -->> -->of course, if that filter is as exposed as it appears to be in that pic > -->> -->and not protected by anything (like an easily removed skid plate), i'd > -->> -->like to beat to a senseless pulp the idiot that thought that was a good > -->> -->idea on anything wearing a J**p emblem! > -->> --> > -->> --> of course, there doesn't seem to be anyone at DCX that understands > -->that > -->> -->the Wrangler isn't the only J**p that we want to drive off-road, and > -->> -->most Libby drivers will probably never take one anywhere more > -->> -->challenging than a gentle dirt track, so (as the saying goes) it's not > -->> -->likely they're going to "...understand" either. > -->> --> > -->> --> > -->> -->cheers! > -->> -->e > -->> --> > -->> -->(who happens to have both a Diesel Benz and an XJ, making it only > -->> -->marginally more on-topic for this list) > -->> --> > -->> --> > -->> --> > -->> --> > Have a look at this: > -->> --> > > -->> --> > > -->> --> > > -->> --> > I'd like to find that Italian Diesel engine designer and buy them a > -->beer. > -->> --> > > -->> --> > -- > -->> --> > --chuck goolsbee > -->> --> > 02 Jetta TDi & 06 Liberty CRD > -->> --> > arlington, wa, usa > -->> --> > > -->> --> > --> > --> ---- > --> > -->------------------------------------------------------------------------- > --> ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** > --> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > --> ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** > -->------------------------------------------------------------------------- > --> > --> > --> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #2702 **************************