From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Fri Sep 22 13:38:35 2006 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Friday, September 22 2006 Volume 01 : Number 2705 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: Re: I think we need a reality check... fsj: Re: xj: OT: FS --Z-notW-J for sale in Seattle - REDUCED - $2695 fsj: Re: xj: OT: FS --Z-notW-J for sale in Seattle - REDUCED - $2695 fsj: Re: xj: OT: FS --Z-notW-J for sale in Seattle - SOLD Re: fsj: Re: I think we need a reality check... fsj: Re: I think we need a reality check... RE: fsj: Re: I think we need a reality check... Re: fsj: Re: I think we need a reality check... FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 14:20:29 EDT From: Brazzadog-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: Re: I think we need a reality check... Actually, we have lots of climatological data from the fossil record and from ice packs that extend back tens of thousands or years, or more. While, from the standpoint of geologic time, that may not be enough to be significant, it also may be. Considering the theory that some past global warming spells were probably due to high athmospheric concentration of particulates and other chemicals/compounds from periods of high volcanic and/or meteoric activity, global warming may be a legitimate concern. The volcanoes, meteorites, or whatever, eventually quieted down and the atmosphere and earth recovered. If human activity is solely responsible for this round of global warming (the warming trend is no longer debatable) then there may be no end in sight. But, these things are hard to view objectively. In the '60s world over-population and "zero population growth" were hot environmental topics. I haven't heard any mention of these concerns since China started paying people not to have children. I don't know if that's because it's no longer a concern or if it's just not glamorous enough to make the news. All that junk aside, California has it's head in a dark smelly place - as usual. Ben PS - I just read the article by Farago and guess what? He remembers ZPG too! In a message dated 9/21/2006 10:42:28 AM Pacific Daylight Time, owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net writes: Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 23:14:38 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: I think we need a reality check... thinking about this, this lawsuit could expose some of the weakness in these arguments... we simply do not have enough data to understand if there really is global warming or if this is just part of a normal meterological cylce. We have what, 100, 150 years of data? What's that in relation to the percentage of time according to your world view? this is chicken little territory, more emotion than fact. wild speculation with an agenda. what are the real facts? let's hope the auto industry employs real scientists to deal with this logically instead of emotionally. john ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 13:50:56 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: xj: OT: FS --Z-notW-J for sale in Seattle - REDUCED - $2695 you had me going there from a second HC... dang, it's a ZJ, not a WJ... would have been all over that one. ;) looks nice though... but it is a ZJ. zj's ran from '93-'98 wj's ran from '99-'06 or was it '05? ;) john On Thu, 21 Sep 2006, hccarter-at-comcast.net wrote: >-->Reduced! 94 Grand Cherokee - 4.0L 6 cyl - 150K miles >-->AT, A/C, Clear WA title, New Tags/Tabs, Eco 6cyl >-->Cruise, Roof Rack, Alloys, Near-new tires, Laredo Pkg >--> >-->Great Mechanicals - Good Body - Red - Grey cloth int. >-->Offers - Possible trade for cargo van or ??? >--> >-->Now $2695 >--> >-->http://seattle.craigslist.org/est/car/210455489.html >--> >-->http://hchc.home.comcast.net/jeep_wj.jpg >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 16:16:44 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: xj: OT: FS --Z-notW-J for sale in Seattle - REDUCED - $2695 well, it's not an FSJ either... ;) it's a ZJ. An FSJ is an SJ, 1963 - 1991. :) but yes, it is a very nice looking rig... despite my dislike for the ZJ I'll talk to one of my kids to see if they're interested... I doubt it, but hey, it's a Jeep and has real axles... :) john On Thu, 21 Sep 2006, hc carter wrote: > -->Woops - right you are - my bad - still, in all, a pretty decent FSJ - sorry > -->for the OT - thanks - HC > -->- - - > --> > -->john wrote: > --> > -->>you had me going there from a second HC... dang, it's a ZJ, > -->>not a WJ... would have been all over that one. ;) > -->> > -->>looks nice though... but it is a ZJ. zj's ran from '93-'98 > -->>wj's ran from '99-'06 or was it '05? ;) > -->> > -->>john > -->> > -->>On Thu, 21 Sep 2006, hccarter-at-comcast.net wrote: > -->> > -->> > -->> > -->> > -->Reduced! 94 Grand Cherokee - 4.0L 6 cyl - 150K miles > -->> > -->AT, A/C, Clear WA title, New Tags/Tabs, Eco 6cyl > -->> > -->Cruise, Roof Rack, Alloys, Near-new tires, Laredo Pkg > -->> > --> > -->> > -->Great Mechanicals - Good Body - Red - Grey cloth int. > -->> > -->Offers - Possible trade for cargo van or ??? > -->> > --> > -->> > -->Now $2695 > -->> > --> > -->> > -->http://seattle.craigslist.org/est/car/210455489.html > -->> > --> > -->> > -->http://hchc.home.comcast.net/jeep_wj.jpg > -->> > --> > -->> > > -->> > > -->> > -->> ---- > -->> > -->>------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -->> ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** > -->> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > -->>** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** > -->>------------------------------------------------------------------------- > --> > --> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 20:57:16 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: xj: OT: FS --Z-notW-J for sale in Seattle - SOLD On Thu, 21 Sep 2006, hc carter wrote: > -->picky, picky maybe? hehehe! - FSJ = Full Size Jeep (is that an actual > -->factory designation?) no, SJ is. :) yes, picky... us "real" Jeep owners are quite particular. An "FSJ" is any vehicle produced in North America, carrying the "Jeep" nameplate, with 2 or 4drs, in 2 or 4wd, whose wheelbase does not exceed 132", nor is less than 108", and whose tread width is no more than 63" nor less than 57". - -------------------------- This definition is known to include the following models: Wagoneer: 1963-1983 Gladiator and J-series pickup: 1963-1987 Cherokee: 1974-1983 Grand Wagoneer: 1984-1991 - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ALL FULL-SIZE JEEPS HAVE A JEEP MODEL DESIGNATOR OF: SJ http://www.wagoneers.com/JEEPS/jeepcode.html (jeep production codes) - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- see: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/FSJ-charter.html :) > -->Since they aren't making SJs anymore, I guess I consider the all of the > -->Grand Cherokes as FSJs ?!? nope... you can't disrepect the classic SJ model... it's not permitted. :) > -->Anyway whatever it was - it just sold so the NO can figure it out . . . > -->:o) rofl... I was working on getting one of my kids to buy it... We're about two vehicles away from being all Jeep... :) '99 WJ - Grand Cherokee '91 SJ - Grand Wagoneer '83 SJ - J10 stepside '79 SJ - J10 Golden Eagle '75 SJ - J10 trailer '67 SJ - J100 Panel '48 CJ - CJ-2A :) and one '91 Mercedes and one '91 pontiac... john > --> > -->thx! > -->- - - > --> > -->ssjohn wrote: > --> > -->>well, it's not an FSJ either... ;) it's a ZJ. > -->> > -->>An FSJ is an SJ, 1963 - 1991. :) > -->> > -->>but yes, it is a very nice looking rig... despite my > -->>dislike for the ZJ I'll talk to one of my kids to see > -->>if they're interested... I doubt it, but hey, it's a Jeep > -->>and has real axles... :) > -->> > -->>john > -->> > -->>On Thu, 21 Sep 2006, hc carter wrote: > -->> > -->> > -->> > -->> > -->Woops - right you are - my bad - still, in all, a pretty decent FSJ - > -->> > -->sorry > -->> > -->for the OT - thanks - HC > -->> > -->- - - > -->> > --> > -->> > -->john wrote: > -->> > --> > -->> > --> >you had me going there from a second HC... dang, it's a ZJ, > -->> > --> >not a WJ... would have been all over that one. ;) > -->> > --> > > -->> > --> >looks nice though... but it is a ZJ. zj's ran from '93-'98 > -->> > --> >wj's ran from '99-'06 or was it '05? ;) > -->> > --> > > -->> > --> >john > -->> > --> > > -->> > --> >On Thu, 21 Sep 2006, hccarter-at-comcast.net wrote: > -->> > --> > > -->> > --> > > -->> > --> > > -->> > --> > > -->Reduced! 94 Grand Cherokee - 4.0L 6 cyl - 150K miles > -->> > --> > > -->AT, A/C, Clear WA title, New Tags/Tabs, Eco 6cyl > -->> > --> > > -->Cruise, Roof Rack, Alloys, Near-new tires, Laredo Pkg > -->> > --> > > --> > -->> > --> > > -->Great Mechanicals - Good Body - Red - Grey cloth int. > -->> > --> > > -->Offers - Possible trade for cargo van or ??? > -->> > --> > > --> > -->> > --> > > -->Now $2695 > -->> > --> > > --> > -->> > --> > > -->http://seattle.craigslist.org/est/car/210455489.html > -->> > --> > > --> > -->> > --> > > -->http://hchc.home.comcast.net/jeep_wj.jpg > -->> > --> > > --> > -->> > --> > > > -->> > --> > > > -->> > --> > > -->> > --> > ---- > -->> > --> > > -->> > --> >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -->> > --> > ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** > -->> > --> > Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > -->> > --> >** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html > -->> > --> >** > -->> > --> >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -->> > --> > -->> > --> > -->> > > -->> > > -->> > -->> ---- > -->> > -->>------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -->> ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** > -->> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > -->>** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** > -->>------------------------------------------------------------------------- > --> > --> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 21:46:02 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Re: I think we need a reality check... let's consider a different theory... what if the icepacks are left over from some major ice age catastrophe and have been melting for a few thousand years? maybe the normal state is NOT to have the icepacks. there is much evidence to suggest that the icepacks have been receding for a long time... evidence of glacial action all over the world... john On Thu, 21 Sep 2006, Brazzadog-at-aol.com wrote: >-->Actually, we have lots of climatological data from the fossil record and >-->from ice packs that extend back tens of thousands or years, or more. While, >-->from the standpoint of geologic time, that may not be enough to be significant, >-->it also may be. Considering the theory that some past global warming spells >-->were probably due to high athmospheric concentration of particulates and >-->other chemicals/compounds from periods of high volcanic and/or meteoric activity, >-->global warming may be a legitimate concern. The volcanoes, meteorites, or >-->whatever, eventually quieted down and the atmosphere and earth recovered. If >-->human activity is solely responsible for this round of global warming (the >-->warming trend is no longer debatable) then there may be no end in sight. But, >-->these things are hard to view objectively. >--> >-->In the '60s world over-population and "zero population growth" were hot >-->environmental topics. I haven't heard any mention of these concerns since China >-->started paying people not to have children. I don't know if that's because >-->it's no longer a concern or if it's just not glamorous enough to make the news. >--> >-->All that junk aside, California has it's head in a dark smelly place - as >-->usual. >--> >-->Ben >-->PS - I just read the article by Farago and guess what? He remembers ZPG too! >--> >--> >-->In a message dated 9/21/2006 10:42:28 AM Pacific Daylight Time, >-->owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net writes: >--> >-->Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 23:14:38 -0700 (PDT) >-->From: john >-->Subject: fsj: Re: I think we need a reality check... >--> >-->thinking about this, this lawsuit could expose some of >-->the weakness in these arguments... we simply do not have >-->enough data to understand if there really is global warming >-->or if this is just part of a normal meterological cylce. >-->We have what, 100, 150 years of data? What's that in >-->relation to the percentage of time according to your world view? >--> >-->this is chicken little territory, more emotion than fact. wild >-->speculation with an agenda. what are the real facts? >--> >-->let's hope the auto industry employs real scientists to >-->deal with this logically instead of emotionally. >--> >-->john >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 02:19:05 EDT From: Brazzadog-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: Re: I think we need a reality check... I think you are right that there haven't always been ice packs. There have also been countless episodes of glacial growth and shrinkage that occur over many thousands of years. Ben In a message dated 9/21/2006 9:43:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time, john-at-wagoneers.com writes: let's consider a different theory... what if the icepacks are left over from some major ice age catastrophe and have been melting for a few thousand years? maybe the normal state is NOT to have the icepacks. there is much evidence to suggest that the icepacks have been receding for a long time... evidence of glacial action all over the world... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 10:36:59 -0700 From: "Tesar Landon-r16884" Subject: RE: fsj: Re: I think we need a reality check... Um, so what should the level of the oceans be? = how much ice should we have? = what should we expect the climate to be? Lower Level = Colder Higher Level = Warmer Florida/Texas used to be under water = Warmer. How did the oil found in the gulf get under the seabed? = Colder. >-->let's hope the auto industry employs real scientists to >-->deal with this logically instead of emotionally. Ummm: http://www.pbs.org/now/shows/223/index.html - - Landon - -----Original Message----- From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of john Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 11:46 PM To: Brazzadog-at-aol.com Cc: fsj-at-digest.net Subject: Re: fsj: Re: I think we need a reality check... let's consider a different theory... what if the icepacks are left over from some major ice age catastrophe and have been melting for a few thousand years? maybe the normal state is NOT to have the icepacks. there is much evidence to suggest that the icepacks have been receding for a long time... evidence of glacial action all over the world... john On Thu, 21 Sep 2006, Brazzadog-at-aol.com wrote: >-->Actually, we have lots of climatological data from the fossil record and >-->from ice packs that extend back tens of thousands or years, or more. While, >-->from the standpoint of geologic time, that may not be enough to be significant, >-->it also may be. Considering the theory that some past global warming spells >-->were probably due to high athmospheric concentration of particulates and >-->other chemicals/compounds from periods of high volcanic and/or meteoric activity, >-->global warming may be a legitimate concern. The volcanoes, meteorites, or >-->whatever, eventually quieted down and the atmosphere and earth recovered. If >-->human activity is solely responsible for this round of global warming (the >-->warming trend is no longer debatable) then there may be no end in sight. But, >-->these things are hard to view objectively. >--> >-->In the '60s world over-population and "zero population growth" were hot >-->environmental topics. I haven't heard any mention of these concerns since China >-->started paying people not to have children. I don't know if that's because >-->it's no longer a concern or if it's just not glamorous enough to make the news. >--> >-->All that junk aside, California has it's head in a dark smelly place - - as >-->usual. >--> >-->Ben >-->PS - I just read the article by Farago and guess what? He remembers ZPG too! >--> >--> >-->In a message dated 9/21/2006 10:42:28 AM Pacific Daylight Time, >-->owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net writes: >--> >-->Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 23:14:38 -0700 (PDT) >-->From: john >-->Subject: fsj: Re: I think we need a reality check... >--> >-->thinking about this, this lawsuit could expose some of >-->the weakness in these arguments... we simply do not have >-->enough data to understand if there really is global warming >-->or if this is just part of a normal meterological cylce. >-->We have what, 100, 150 years of data? What's that in >-->relation to the percentage of time according to your world view? >--> >-->this is chicken little territory, more emotion than fact. wild >-->speculation with an agenda. what are the real facts? >--> >-->let's hope the auto industry employs real scientists to >-->deal with this logically instead of emotionally. >--> >-->john >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - - ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 16:34:49 EDT From: Brazzadog-at-aol.com Subject: Re: fsj: Re: I think we need a reality check... I guess it depends on how far you want to drive to get to the beach. Ben In a message dated 9/22/2006 10:45:02 AM Pacific Daylight Time, landon.tesar-at-freescale.com writes: Um, so what should the level of the oceans be? = how much ice should we have? = what should we expect the climate to be? Lower Level = Colder Higher Level = Warmer Florida/Texas used to be under water = Warmer. How did the oil found in the gulf get under the seabed? = Colder. ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #2705 **************************