From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Sun Oct 22 09:48:16 2006 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Sunday, October 22 2006 Volume 01 : Number 2726 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: fsj: XJ V6 info fsj: using quantitative methods to decide... fsj: RE: using quantitative methods to decide... fsj: RE: using quantitative methods to decide... RE: fsj: RE: using quantitative methods to decide... FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 22:24:35 -0700 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: Re: fsj: XJ V6 info A: The early ones indeed festered and smelled of dung! Later ones with wider rod throws and internal balancing were much better, but they also show other engines with the same bolt pattern that can be swapped in (I was told) like the Caddy Northstar V8. From: Dan Black Subject: Re: fsj: XJ V6 info "Jim Blair" said: {- More Chev 2.8L V6 (and other sizes) info {- http://60degreev6.com/ Chevy 2.8? Ick, run away!! Worst engine ever, based on personal experience. I'm told their 2.5 (4cyl) is even worse, but I can't imagine much worse. Horribly slow and underpowered, lots of mechanical and quality problems. Run away and never look back. _________________________________________________________________ Get today's hot entertainment gossip http://movies.msn.com/movies/hotgossip?icid=T002MSN03A07001 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 22:39:37 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: using quantitative methods to decide... for those afraid of numbers, just delete this email right now... :) engineers and math types, your input and suggestions are requested... :) - ------------------------------------- extract from QM for Windows: sell obtain costs vehicle until GW sell vehicle Row Min Row Max sell MB- buy xj 7,000 -4,000 -187.5 4,000 -4000 7000 sell MB- buy SJ 7,000 -800 -300 800 -800 7000 keep MB 0 0 -129.6 5,500 -129.6 5500 minimum -4000 5500 minimin minimax The minimin is -4000 given by Alternative 1 - sell MB - buy xj The minimax is 5,500 given by Alternative 3 - keep MB - ------------------------------- (If you don't have ExcelQM or QM for windows would be happy to get a copy to you off list if you want to help me with this homework... it comes with the textbook and will be used for academic purposes.) - ------------------------------- trying to use some of the decision making tools from grad school to make a decision on selling the benz, buying a temporary vehicle until my '91 GW is done and then selling the temp vehicle... the other plan is to wait for the GW, test it, then sell the MB. My initial math was pretty close on the benefits of selling the benz now, but the uncertainty of the end product and timing caused me to back out... I need to estimate the probabilities and come up with an EMV, or at least develop a model to use for situations like this... I run into situations like this at work in trying to decide to upgrade computers, etc... there never seems to be a clean answer involved, there are always other factors... - ------------------------------- Anyway, I'm not sure I've got this problem laid out correctly, but the basic format was suggested by my prof. Here's the scenario: 1) sell mb or not sell mb (1st column) 2) buy something (xj or sj) - include likely repair/xfr costs, or not buy 3) costs until GW is done, this is fuel costs for 30 to 60 days xj's get 16 mpg at 2.5/gal, sj's 10mpg at 2.5/gal mb gets 28mpg at 2.8/gal (more or less, making this up as I go... ;) 4) sell temp vehicle, or the mb at last, estimate later sale of mb at lower price (funny thing is when I increase this number the tool, a blunt instrument really, QM for windows, seems to get stuck on the idea of buying an XJ. Maybe the programmer favors the downsized cherokees, or I set the problem up wrong. ;) so, the bottom line is the ending EMV (expected monetary value) seems to point to the recommendations above. My first run at this with excel seemed to point toward the SJ, XJ and then keeping the MB. I will continue to work on this analysis becasue it's relevant to the class I'm taking and will help me develop a model that will handle my addiction. :) hello, I'm john, and I'm a jeepaholic. Anyway, I'm going to give a try at using Solver in Excel as well as QM decision analysis module. Anyone out there got any suggestions on how to better lay out this problem? (At this point it's not about really deciding to sell Shadowfax as much as it is about learning how to use these tools to make a decision... if the overwhelming evidence points to the economic reality of selling Shadowfax right now I know that there will be at least one very happy person in the midwest. ;) What also needs to be factored in is the probability of completion date for the '91 GW, the probability of it's successful retitling, my acceptance of it as a suitable daily driver and so on... the main reason I didn't part with Shadowfax and buy one of the very nice XJs when I did is the horrible uncertainty of what happens if the GW doesn't work out on WVO... that's one thirsty set of wheels! I may try to use decision trees instead of tables next... better to build a spreadsheet that allows for all the variables... each step has independent probabilities associated with it that affect the value at each point. Like being able to find an XJ for 4k, it might be 4.5k, and then need .5k worth of work... operating costs are pretty predictable, but still have a probability associated... completion of the GW is a major unknown... I think my prof said something about "decision making under uncertainty" was involved... rofl... just glad I've decided to to my thesis on the TCO of WinXP vs. Linux rather than something like making up my mind... :) john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 23:21:38 -0700 From: "Paul and Megan Kershner" Subject: fsj: RE: using quantitative methods to decide... HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-H A-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA That's my version of ROFL, when John starts talking about selling the Benz (or any vehicle for that matter...). Oh, sorry John, the below e-mail wasn't supposed to be funny? Oops... So, John - just stop what you are doing right now. Breathe deep. One more time, now. OK, here is how I see it and probably how it will end up (No Engineering or Math required): You should keep the Benz and just give the '91 GW away. If you keep the Benz and don't build the GW diesel, you will save money and effort because what will likely happen is that as soon as you sell it (Benz), you'll miss it and want it back. If you finish the GW diesel project, it will go well until you have to work on the back window and then you'll say, "Now I remember why I got rid of the last several GWs..." Paul - -----Original Message----- From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of john Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 10:40 PM To: undisclosed-recipients: Subject: fsj: using quantitative methods to decide... for those afraid of numbers, just delete this email right now... :) engineers and math types, your input and suggestions are requested... :) - ------------------------------------- extract from QM for Windows: sell obtain costs vehicle until GW sell vehicle Row Min Row Max sell MB- buy xj 7,000 -4,000 -187.5 4,000 -4000 7000 sell MB- buy SJ 7,000 -800 -300 800 -800 7000 keep MB 0 0 -129.6 5,500 -129.6 5500 minimum -4000 5500 minimin minimax The minimin is -4000 given by Alternative 1 - sell MB - buy xj The minimax is 5,500 given by Alternative 3 - keep MB - ------------------------------- (If you don't have ExcelQM or QM for windows would be happy to get a copy to you off list if you want to help me with this homework... it comes with the textbook and will be used for academic purposes.) - ------------------------------- trying to use some of the decision making tools from grad school to make a decision on selling the benz, buying a temporary vehicle until my '91 GW is done and then selling the temp vehicle... the other plan is to wait for the GW, test it, then sell the MB. My initial math was pretty close on the benefits of selling the benz now, but the uncertainty of the end product and timing caused me to back out... I need to estimate the probabilities and come up with an EMV, or at least develop a model to use for situations like this... I run into situations like this at work in trying to decide to upgrade computers, etc... there never seems to be a clean answer involved, there are always other factors... - ------------------------------- Anyway, I'm not sure I've got this problem laid out correctly, but the basic format was suggested by my prof. Here's the scenario: 1) sell mb or not sell mb (1st column) 2) buy something (xj or sj) - include likely repair/xfr costs, or not buy 3) costs until GW is done, this is fuel costs for 30 to 60 days xj's get 16 mpg at 2.5/gal, sj's 10mpg at 2.5/gal mb gets 28mpg at 2.8/gal (more or less, making this up as I go... ;) 4) sell temp vehicle, or the mb at last, estimate later sale of mb at lower price (funny thing is when I increase this number the tool, a blunt instrument really, QM for windows, seems to get stuck on the idea of buying an XJ. Maybe the programmer favors the downsized cherokees, or I set the problem up wrong. ;) so, the bottom line is the ending EMV (expected monetary value) seems to point to the recommendations above. My first run at this with excel seemed to point toward the SJ, XJ and then keeping the MB. I will continue to work on this analysis becasue it's relevant to the class I'm taking and will help me develop a model that will handle my addiction. :) hello, I'm john, and I'm a jeepaholic. Anyway, I'm going to give a try at using Solver in Excel as well as QM decision analysis module. Anyone out there got any suggestions on how to better lay out this problem? (At this point it's not about really deciding to sell Shadowfax as much as it is about learning how to use these tools to make a decision... if the overwhelming evidence points to the economic reality of selling Shadowfax right now I know that there will be at least one very happy person in the midwest. ;) What also needs to be factored in is the probability of completion date for the '91 GW, the probability of it's successful retitling, my acceptance of it as a suitable daily driver and so on... the main reason I didn't part with Shadowfax and buy one of the very nice XJs when I did is the horrible uncertainty of what happens if the GW doesn't work out on WVO... that's one thirsty set of wheels! I may try to use decision trees instead of tables next... better to build a spreadsheet that allows for all the variables... each step has independent probabilities associated with it that affect the value at each point. Like being able to find an XJ for 4k, it might be 4.5k, and then need .5k worth of work... operating costs are pretty predictable, but still have a probability associated... completion of the GW is a major unknown... I think my prof said something about "decision making under uncertainty" was involved... rofl... just glad I've decided to to my thesis on the TCO of WinXP vs. Linux rather than something like making up my mind... :) john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 23:26:55 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: RE: using quantitative methods to decide... ok, excellent input Paul, now, put that into QM for me, or excel... define the various probabilities and EMV... and, tell us about your latest adventure with Bambi and your '91 GW. :) john On Sat, 21 Oct 2006, Paul and Megan Kershner wrote: >-->HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-H >-->A-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA >--> >-->That's my version of ROFL, when John starts talking about selling the Benz >-->(or any vehicle for that matter...). >--> >-->Oh, sorry John, the below e-mail wasn't supposed to be funny? Oops... >--> >-->So, John - just stop what you are doing right now. Breathe deep. One more >-->time, now. OK, here is how I see it and probably how it will end up (No >-->Engineering or Math required): >--> >-->You should keep the Benz and just give the '91 GW away. If you keep the >-->Benz and don't build the GW diesel, you will save money and effort because >-->what will likely happen is that as soon as you sell it (Benz), you'll miss >-->it and want it back. If you finish the GW diesel project, it will go well >-->until you have to work on the back window and then you'll say, "Now I >-->remember why I got rid of the last several GWs..." >--> >-->Paul >--> >-->-----Original Message----- >-->From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of john >-->Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 10:40 PM >-->To: undisclosed-recipients: >-->Subject: fsj: using quantitative methods to decide... >--> >--> for those afraid of numbers, just delete this email right now... :) >--> >-->engineers and math types, your input and suggestions are requested... :) >-->------------------------------------- >--> >--> >-->extract from QM for Windows: >--> >--> sell obtain costs >--> vehicle until GW sell vehicle Row Min >-->Row Max >-->sell MB- buy xj 7,000 -4,000 -187.5 4,000 -4000 >-->7000 >-->sell MB- buy SJ 7,000 -800 -300 800 -800 >-->7000 >-->keep MB 0 0 -129.6 5,500 -129.6 >-->5500 >--> minimum -4000 >-->5500 >--> minimin >-->minimax >--> >-->The minimin is -4000 given by Alternative 1 - sell MB - buy xj >-->The minimax is 5,500 given by Alternative 3 - keep MB >--> >-->------------------------------- >-->(If you don't have ExcelQM or QM for windows would be happy to >-->get a copy to you off list if you want to help me with this homework... it >-->comes >-->with the textbook and will be used for academic purposes.) >-->------------------------------- >--> >-->trying to use some of the decision making tools from grad school >-->to make a decision on selling the benz, buying a temporary vehicle >-->until my '91 GW is done and then selling the temp vehicle... the other >-->plan is to wait for the GW, test it, then sell the MB. My initial math >-->was pretty close on the benefits of selling the benz now, but the >-->uncertainty >-->of the end product and timing caused me to back out... I need to estimate >-->the probabilities and come up with an EMV, or at least develop a model to >-->use for situations like this... I run into situations like this at work >-->in trying to decide to upgrade computers, etc... there never seems to be >-->a clean answer involved, there are always other factors... >-->------------------------------- >--> >--> >-->Anyway, I'm not sure I've got this problem laid out correctly, but the basic >-->format was suggested by my prof. >--> >-->Here's the scenario: >--> 1) sell mb or not sell mb (1st column) >--> >--> 2) buy something (xj or sj) - include likely repair/xfr costs, or >-->not buy >--> >--> 3) costs until GW is done, this is fuel costs for 30 to 60 days >--> xj's get 16 mpg at 2.5/gal, sj's 10mpg at 2.5/gal >--> mb gets 28mpg at 2.8/gal (more or less, making this up as I >-->go... ;) >--> >--> 4) sell temp vehicle, or the mb at last, estimate later sale of >--> mb at lower price (funny thing is when I increase this >-->number >--> the tool, a blunt instrument really, QM for windows, seems >--> to get stuck on the idea of buying an XJ. Maybe the >-->programmer >--> favors the downsized cherokees, or I set the problem up >-->wrong. ;) >--> >--> >-->so, the bottom line is the ending EMV (expected monetary value) seems to >-->point to the recommendations above. >--> >-->My first run at this with excel seemed to point toward the SJ, XJ and then >-->keeping the MB. >--> >-->I will continue to work on this analysis becasue it's relevant to the >-->class I'm taking and will help me develop a model that will handle my >-->addiction. :) hello, I'm john, and I'm a jeepaholic. >--> >-->Anyway, I'm going to give a try at using Solver in Excel as well as QM >-->decision analysis module. Anyone out there got any suggestions on how >-->to better lay out this problem? (At this point it's not about really >-->deciding to sell Shadowfax as much as it is about learning how to use >-->these tools to make a decision... if the overwhelming evidence points >-->to the economic reality of selling Shadowfax right now I know that there >-->will be at least one very happy person in the midwest. ;) >--> >-->What also needs to be factored in is the probability of completion >-->date for the '91 GW, the probability of it's successful retitling, >-->my acceptance of it as a suitable daily driver and so on... the main >-->reason I didn't part with Shadowfax and buy one of the very nice XJs >-->when I did is the horrible uncertainty of what happens if the GW doesn't >-->work out on WVO... that's one thirsty set of wheels! >--> >--> >-->I may try to use decision trees instead of tables next... better >-->to build a spreadsheet that allows for all the variables... each >-->step has independent probabilities associated with it that affect the >-->value at each point. Like being able to find an XJ for 4k, it might >-->be 4.5k, and then need .5k worth of work... operating costs are pretty >-->predictable, but still have a probability associated... completion of >-->the GW is a major unknown... >--> >-->I think my prof said something about "decision making under uncertainty" was >-->involved... rofl... just glad I've decided to to my thesis on the TCO >-->of WinXP vs. Linux rather than something like making up my mind... :) >--> >-->john >--> >--> >--> >--> ---- >--> >-->------------------------------------------------------------------------- >--> ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** >--> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold >--> ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** >-->------------------------------------------------------------------------- >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 16:42:00 +0000 From: "michel balea" Subject: RE: fsj: RE: using quantitative methods to decide... Paul is right... this GW or SJ is a disease! an addiction..... Friends always ask me what would i drive if there were no GW.... I think that we have spend too much time fixing those beasts, that we need to justify owning them because we know all the quirks and fixes Michel 74 wag From: john Reply-To: john To: Paul and Megan Kershner CC: diesel-benz list , fsj Subject: fsj: RE: using quantitative methods to decide... Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 23:26:55 -0700 (PDT) ok, excellent input Paul, now, put that into QM for me, or excel... define the various probabilities and EMV... and, tell us about your latest adventure with Bambi and your '91 GW. :) john On Sat, 21 Oct 2006, Paul and Megan Kershner wrote: >-->HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-H >-->A-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA >--> >-->That's my version of ROFL, when John starts talking about selling the Benz >-->(or any vehicle for that matter...). >--> >-->Oh, sorry John, the below e-mail wasn't supposed to be funny? Oops... >--> >-->So, John - just stop what you are doing right now. Breathe deep. One more >-->time, now. OK, here is how I see it and probably how it will end up (No >-->Engineering or Math required): >--> >-->You should keep the Benz and just give the '91 GW away. If you keep the >-->Benz and don't build the GW diesel, you will save money and effort because >-->what will likely happen is that as soon as you sell it (Benz), you'll miss >-->it and want it back. If you finish the GW diesel project, it will go well >-->until you have to work on the back window and then you'll say, "Now I >-->remember why I got rid of the last several GWs..." >--> >-->Paul >--> >-->-----Original Message----- >-->From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of john >-->Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 10:40 PM >-->To: undisclosed-recipients: >-->Subject: fsj: using quantitative methods to decide... >--> >--> for those afraid of numbers, just delete this email right now... :) >--> >-->engineers and math types, your input and suggestions are requested... :) >-->------------------------------------- >--> >--> >-->extract from QM for Windows: >--> >--> sell obtain costs >--> vehicle until GW sell vehicle Row Min >-->Row Max >-->sell MB- buy xj 7,000 -4,000 -187.5 4,000 -4000 >-->7000 >-->sell MB- buy SJ 7,000 -800 -300 800 -800 >-->7000 >-->keep MB 0 0 -129.6 5,500 -129.6 >-->5500 >--> minimum -4000 >-->5500 >--> minimin >-->minimax >--> >-->The minimin is -4000 given by Alternative 1 - sell MB - buy xj >-->The minimax is 5,500 given by Alternative 3 - keep MB >--> >-->------------------------------- >-->(If you don't have ExcelQM or QM for windows would be happy to >-->get a copy to you off list if you want to help me with this homework... it >-->comes >-->with the textbook and will be used for academic purposes.) >-->------------------------------- >--> >-->trying to use some of the decision making tools from grad school >-->to make a decision on selling the benz, buying a temporary vehicle >-->until my '91 GW is done and then selling the temp vehicle... the other >-->plan is to wait for the GW, test it, then sell the MB. My initial math >-->was pretty close on the benefits of selling the benz now, but the >-->uncertainty >-->of the end product and timing caused me to back out... I need to estimate >-->the probabilities and come up with an EMV, or at least develop a model to >-->use for situations like this... I run into situations like this at work >-->in trying to decide to upgrade computers, etc... there never seems to be >-->a clean answer involved, there are always other factors... >-->------------------------------- >--> >--> >-->Anyway, I'm not sure I've got this problem laid out correctly, but the basic >-->format was suggested by my prof. >--> >-->Here's the scenario: >--> 1) sell mb or not sell mb (1st column) >--> >--> 2) buy something (xj or sj) - include likely repair/xfr costs, or >-->not buy >--> >--> 3) costs until GW is done, this is fuel costs for 30 to 60 days >--> xj's get 16 mpg at 2.5/gal, sj's 10mpg at 2.5/gal >--> mb gets 28mpg at 2.8/gal (more or less, making this up as I >-->go... ;) >--> >--> 4) sell temp vehicle, or the mb at last, estimate later sale of >--> mb at lower price (funny thing is when I increase this >-->number >--> the tool, a blunt instrument really, QM for windows, seems >--> to get stuck on the idea of buying an XJ. Maybe the >-->programmer >--> favors the downsized cherokees, or I set the problem up >-->wrong. ;) >--> >--> >-->so, the bottom line is the ending EMV (expected monetary value) seems to >-->point to the recommendations above. >--> >-->My first run at this with excel seemed to point toward the SJ, XJ and then >-->keeping the MB. >--> >-->I will continue to work on this analysis becasue it's relevant to the >-->class I'm taking and will help me develop a model that will handle my >-->addiction. :) hello, I'm john, and I'm a jeepaholic. >--> >-->Anyway, I'm going to give a try at using Solver in Excel as well as QM >-->decision analysis module. Anyone out there got any suggestions on how >-->to better lay out this problem? (At this point it's not about really >-->deciding to sell Shadowfax as much as it is about learning how to use >-->these tools to make a decision... if the overwhelming evidence points >-->to the economic reality of selling Shadowfax right now I know that there >-->will be at least one very happy person in the midwest. ;) >--> >-->What also needs to be factored in is the probability of completion >-->date for the '91 GW, the probability of it's successful retitling, >-->my acceptance of it as a suitable daily driver and so on... the main >-->reason I didn't part with Shadowfax and buy one of the very nice XJs >-->when I did is the horrible uncertainty of what happens if the GW doesn't >-->work out on WVO... that's one thirsty set of wheels! >--> >--> >-->I may try to use decision trees instead of tables next... better >-->to build a spreadsheet that allows for all the variables... each >-->step has independent probabilities associated with it that affect the >-->value at each point. Like being able to find an XJ for 4k, it might >-->be 4.5k, and then need .5k worth of work... operating costs are pretty >-->predictable, but still have a probability associated... completion of >-->the GW is a major unknown... >--> >-->I think my prof said something about "decision making under uncertainty" was >-->involved... rofl... just glad I've decided to to my thesis on the TCO >-->of WinXP vs. Linux rather than something like making up my mind... :) >--> >-->john >--> >--> >--> >--> ---- >--> >-->------------------------------------------------------------------------- >--> ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** >--> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold >--> ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** >-->------------------------------------------------------------------------- >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- _________________________________________________________________ Use your PC to make calls at very low rates https://voiceoam.pcs.v2s.live.com/partnerredirect.aspx ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #2726 **************************