From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Mon Nov 20 12:44:59 2006 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Monday, November 20 2006 Volume 01 : Number 2738 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: Turbo Diesel XJ Re: fsj: Turbo Diesel XJ Re: fsj: Turbo Diesel XJ Re: fsj: Turbo Diesel XJ Re: [db] Re: fsj: Turbo Diesel XJ Re: fsj: Turbo Diesel XJ Re: fsj: Turbo Diesel XJ Re: fsj: Turbo Diesel XJ Re: fsj: Turbo Diesel XJ FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 09:01:10 CST From: Dan Black Subject: fsj: Turbo Diesel XJ This one's for John. ;) http://cgi.ebay.com/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110055653633 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Love... Who can explain it? -- Capt. Douglas "Dawg" Brown - -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 07:16:08 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Turbo Diesel XJ no it's not... 4x2, have that with my Mercedes Turbo Diesel already, and it's not red either. ;) thanx, john On Mon, 20 Nov 2006, Dan Black wrote: >-->This one's for John. ;) >--> >-->http://cgi.ebay.com/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110055653633 >--> >-->------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >--> Love... Who can explain it? >--> -- Capt. Douglas "Dawg" Brown >-->-------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 09:28:05 CST From: Dan Black Subject: Re: fsj: Turbo Diesel XJ john said: {- no it's not... 4x2, have that with my Mercedes Turbo Diesel {- already, and it's not red either. ;) So put in a transfer case and front axle. :) Or swap engines with a 4wd one you like. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Professional driver on closed course. Do not attempt. - -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 09:40:11 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Turbo Diesel XJ there are other issues... unobtanium being the largest issue... anything French or Renault is significantly harder to find than any Willys or AMC parts... in 1992 just the O-ring and sleeve kit for the 4 cylinder was $800! That's not including pistons, bearings or gaskets, that's just the sleeves!!! That was 1992, I doubt you can even get a part for them. They only had the All-Aluminum Renault 2.1l Turbo Diesel from 1985 to 1987. That dealers only keep items for about 5 years is also a bad thing... Of course you could just go to your local Renault dealership... right? ;) Before I convert an XJ to 4wd I'll buy a different one... and if I really want a Diesel in an XJ I'd use a Mercedes engine. The Renault TD used a rubber timing belt, and o-rings every where... then there was the issue of the Paris-Rhone starter and alternator, unless you were one of the lucky few with Bosch... then we get to the pathetic manual transmissions attached to them, obviously also french... I loved my Diesel XJ, but am quite happy that I no longer have it... would I get another one? for the right price in the right condition, probably... but then again: My name is john, and I'm a diesel/jeepaholic. :) john On Mon, 20 Nov 2006, Dan Black wrote: >-->john said: >-->{- no it's not... 4x2, have that with my Mercedes Turbo Diesel >-->{- already, and it's not red either. ;) >--> >-->So put in a transfer case and front axle. :) Or swap engines with a >-->4wd one you like. >--> >-->------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >--> Professional driver on closed course. >--> Do not attempt. >-->-------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 12:08:52 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [db] Re: fsj: Turbo Diesel XJ On Mon, 20 Nov 2006, Stephen Rigley wrote: > -->http://www.ebay.fr/ > -->I'm sure postage isn't that much ;-) my french is in worse shape than most french autos... although I'm not sure that's possible... ;) there's the leading edge, the bleeding edge, and then the french designs... john > --> > -->Steve > --> > -->On 11/20/06, john wrote: > -->> there are other issues... > -->> > -->> unobtanium being the largest issue... anything French > -->> or Renault is significantly harder to find than any Willys > -->> or AMC parts... in 1992 just the O-ring and sleeve kit for > -->> the 4 cylinder was $800! That's not including pistons, bearings > -->> or gaskets, that's just the sleeves!!! That was 1992, I doubt > -->> you can even get a part for them. > -->> > -->> They only had the All-Aluminum Renault 2.1l Turbo Diesel from 1985 to > -->> 1987. > -->> > -->> That dealers only keep items for about 5 years is also a bad thing... > -->> > -->> Of course you could just go to your local Renault dealership... right? ;) > -->> > -->> Before I convert an XJ to 4wd I'll buy a different one... and > -->> if I really want a Diesel in an XJ I'd use a Mercedes engine. > -->> > -->> The Renault TD used a rubber timing belt, and o-rings every where... > -->> then there was the issue of the Paris-Rhone starter and alternator, > -->> unless you were one of the lucky few with Bosch... > -->> > -->> then we get to the pathetic manual transmissions attached to them, > -->> obviously also french... > -->> > -->> I loved my Diesel XJ, but am quite happy that I no longer have it... > -->> > -->> would I get another one? for the right price in the right condition, > -->> probably... but then again: My name is john, and I'm a > -->> diesel/jeepaholic. :) > -->> > -->> john > -->> > -->> On Mon, 20 Nov 2006, Dan Black wrote: > -->> > -->> > -->john said: > -->> > -->{- no it's not... 4x2, have that with my Mercedes Turbo Diesel > -->> > -->{- already, and it's not red either. ;) > -->> > --> > -->> > -->So put in a transfer case and front axle. :) Or swap engines with a > -->> > -->4wd one you like. > -->> > --> > -->> > -->------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -->> > --> Professional driver on closed course. > -->> > --> Do not attempt. > -->> > -->-------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org > -->> > -->-------------- > -->> > --> > -->> > -->> ---- > -->> > -->> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -->> ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** > -->> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > -->> ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** > -->> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -->> > --> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 20:05:34 +0000 From: "michel balea" Subject: Re: fsj: Turbo Diesel XJ unobtanium is the first problem and diagnosticum the second for those french stuff -as i was surfing on euro site to get some feel about diagnostics.... even the XJ is different in the 4 cyl version.... the electronic failure is reported as one of the #1 reason for tow calls, in France..... But Jim was right on w the faulty ground and dirty connectors... i cleaned and replug most of the engine compartment sensors... and it has been good so far.... the longest trip being 40 miles.... and we had some hot weather here.... last week it was almost 70'ish Playing w my daughter's 1990 YJ, has been an experience.... first the haynes is useless for checking just the coil primary.... wrong directions, then as said....in a few years parts hunting will make it challenging when the big parts will fail.... fancy coil coupled to some CPU, not talking about the ECU alone.... (took the local place 1 week to get the CPS) for a DD, sorry to say, but a good jap car is the most reliable.... not necessarily fun.... I got the other daughter a civic... and she is very happy (31mpg) the wrangler was barely 17mpg.... I managed 21 on the freeway on 3 tanks of gas.... but i am the one who can do 17, and18.5 (on a flate stretch of I-5 between Sacramento and the grapevine) which was the same route. Cheers Michel 74 wag From: john Reply-To: john To: Dan Black CC: xj-list , diesel-benz list , Full Size Jeeps Subject: Re: fsj: Turbo Diesel XJ Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 09:40:11 -0800 (PST) there are other issues... unobtanium being the largest issue... anything French or Renault is significantly harder to find than any Willys or AMC parts... in 1992 just the O-ring and sleeve kit for the 4 cylinder was $800! That's not including pistons, bearings or gaskets, that's just the sleeves!!! That was 1992, I doubt you can even get a part for them. They only had the All-Aluminum Renault 2.1l Turbo Diesel from 1985 to 1987. That dealers only keep items for about 5 years is also a bad thing... Of course you could just go to your local Renault dealership... right? ;) Before I convert an XJ to 4wd I'll buy a different one... and if I really want a Diesel in an XJ I'd use a Mercedes engine. The Renault TD used a rubber timing belt, and o-rings every where... then there was the issue of the Paris-Rhone starter and alternator, unless you were one of the lucky few with Bosch... then we get to the pathetic manual transmissions attached to them, obviously also french... I loved my Diesel XJ, but am quite happy that I no longer have it... would I get another one? for the right price in the right condition, probably... but then again: My name is john, and I'm a diesel/jeepaholic. :) john On Mon, 20 Nov 2006, Dan Black wrote: >-->john said: >-->{- no it's not... 4x2, have that with my Mercedes Turbo Diesel >-->{- already, and it's not red either. ;) >--> >-->So put in a transfer case and front axle. :) Or swap engines with a >-->4wd one you like. >--> >-->------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >--> Professional driver on closed course. >--> Do not attempt. >-->-------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org - -------------- >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- _________________________________________________________________ Fixing up the home? Live Search can help http://imagine-windowslive.com/search/kits/default.aspx?kit=improve&locale=en-US&source=hmemailtaglinenov06&FORM=WLMTAG ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 20:18:34 +0000 From: "michel balea" Subject: Re: fsj: Turbo Diesel XJ If you really insist on getting french parts... i can do you all a favor... the dealership is not too far from my parents' place... last time i was there was in 1980.... so they should still be around.... Next trip should be in a few months.... Then of course... i can ask friends, Dad.... French design is not that bad.... front wheel drive in 1934 (citroen)... the first car : a motorized (ox)cart.... of course they forgot the brakes, but that was the second half of the 18th century.... Even if it is out of service.... the concord(e).... Nissan is not doing too bad.... and GM almost fell for it :-)... not to mention perfumes, a shortcut to avoid wasting gallons of water for cleaning purposes..... cheers M {off to his weekly bath.... oh! no! I missed it it was supposed to be Sunday... i guess i will have to wait another week ) From: john Reply-To: john To: Stephen Rigley CC: Dan Black , xj-list , diesel-benz list , Full Size Jeeps Subject: Re: [db] Re: fsj: Turbo Diesel XJ Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 12:08:52 -0800 (PST) On Mon, 20 Nov 2006, Stephen Rigley wrote: > -->http://www.ebay.fr/ > -->I'm sure postage isn't that much ;-) my french is in worse shape than most french autos... although I'm not sure that's possible... ;) there's the leading edge, the bleeding edge, and then the french designs... john > --> > -->Steve > --> > -->On 11/20/06, john wrote: > -->> there are other issues... > -->> > -->> unobtanium being the largest issue... anything French > -->> or Renault is significantly harder to find than any Willys > -->> or AMC parts... in 1992 just the O-ring and sleeve kit for > -->> the 4 cylinder was $800! That's not including pistons, bearings > -->> or gaskets, that's just the sleeves!!! That was 1992, I doubt > -->> you can even get a part for them. > -->> > -->> They only had the All-Aluminum Renault 2.1l Turbo Diesel from 1985 to > -->> 1987. > -->> > -->> That dealers only keep items for about 5 years is also a bad thing... > -->> > -->> Of course you could just go to your local Renault dealership... right? ;) > -->> > -->> Before I convert an XJ to 4wd I'll buy a different one... and > -->> if I really want a Diesel in an XJ I'd use a Mercedes engine. > -->> > -->> The Renault TD used a rubber timing belt, and o-rings every where... > -->> then there was the issue of the Paris-Rhone starter and alternator, > -->> unless you were one of the lucky few with Bosch... > -->> > -->> then we get to the pathetic manual transmissions attached to them, > -->> obviously also french... > -->> > -->> I loved my Diesel XJ, but am quite happy that I no longer have it... > -->> > -->> would I get another one? for the right price in the right condition, > -->> probably... but then again: My name is john, and I'm a > -->> diesel/jeepaholic. :) > -->> > -->> john > -->> > -->> On Mon, 20 Nov 2006, Dan Black wrote: > -->> > -->> > -->john said: > -->> > -->{- no it's not... 4x2, have that with my Mercedes Turbo Diesel > -->> > -->{- already, and it's not red either. ;) > -->> > --> > -->> > -->So put in a transfer case and front axle. :) Or swap engines with a > -->> > -->4wd one you like. > -->> > --> > -->> > - -->------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -->> > --> Professional driver on closed course. > -->> > --> Do not attempt. > -->> > -->-------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org > -->> > -->-------------- > -->> > --> > -->> > -->> ---- > -->> > -->> - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -->> ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** > -->> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > -->> ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** > -->> - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -->> > --> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- _________________________________________________________________ Talk now to your Hotmail contacts with Windows Live Messenger. http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0020000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://get.live.com/messenger/overview ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 12:42:36 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Turbo Diesel XJ my '85 xj with the Renault 2.1L TD ate alternators... it had a number of issues, but overall did well... but couldn't tow it's own shadow... :) 26mpg in town, 32mpg on the road... respectable... awesome off-road. john On Mon, 20 Nov 2006, michel balea wrote: > --> > --> > -->unobtanium is the first problem and diagnosticum the second for those french > -->stuff -as i was surfing on euro site to get some feel about diagnostics.... > -->even the XJ is different in the 4 cyl version.... the electronic failure is > -->reported as one of the #1 reason for tow calls, in France..... But Jim was > -->right on w the faulty ground and dirty connectors... i cleaned and replug > -->most of the engine compartment sensors... and it has been good so far.... > -->the longest trip being 40 miles.... and we had some hot weather here.... > -->last week it was almost 70'ish > --> > -->Playing w my daughter's 1990 YJ, has been an experience.... first the haynes > -->is useless for checking just the coil primary.... wrong directions, then as > -->said....in a few years parts hunting will make it challenging when the big > -->parts will fail.... fancy coil coupled to some CPU, not talking about the > -->ECU alone.... (took the local place 1 week to get the CPS) > --> > -->for a DD, sorry to say, but a good jap car is the most reliable.... not > -->necessarily fun.... I got the other daughter a civic... and she is very > -->happy (31mpg) the wrangler was barely 17mpg.... I managed 21 on the freeway > -->on 3 tanks of gas.... but i am the one who can do 17, and18.5 (on a flate > -->stretch of I-5 between Sacramento and the grapevine) which was the same > -->route. > --> > -->Cheers > --> > -->Michel > -->74 wag > --> > --> > --> > -->From: john > -->Reply-To: john > -->To: Dan Black > -->CC: xj-list , diesel-benz list , > -->Full Size Jeeps > -->Subject: Re: fsj: Turbo Diesel XJ > -->Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 09:40:11 -0800 (PST) > --> > -->there are other issues... > --> > -->unobtanium being the largest issue... anything French > -->or Renault is significantly harder to find than any Willys > -->or AMC parts... in 1992 just the O-ring and sleeve kit for > -->the 4 cylinder was $800! That's not including pistons, bearings > -->or gaskets, that's just the sleeves!!! That was 1992, I doubt > -->you can even get a part for them. > --> > -->They only had the All-Aluminum Renault 2.1l Turbo Diesel from 1985 to 1987. > --> > -->That dealers only keep items for about 5 years is also a bad thing... > --> > -->Of course you could just go to your local Renault dealership... right? ;) > --> > -->Before I convert an XJ to 4wd I'll buy a different one... and > -->if I really want a Diesel in an XJ I'd use a Mercedes engine. > --> > -->The Renault TD used a rubber timing belt, and o-rings every where... > -->then there was the issue of the Paris-Rhone starter and alternator, > -->unless you were one of the lucky few with Bosch... > --> > -->then we get to the pathetic manual transmissions attached to them, > -->obviously also french... > --> > -->I loved my Diesel XJ, but am quite happy that I no longer have it... > --> > -->would I get another one? for the right price in the right condition, > -->probably... but then again: My name is john, and I'm a diesel/jeepaholic. > --> :) > --> > -->john > --> > -->On Mon, 20 Nov 2006, Dan Black wrote: > --> > -->> -->john said: > -->> -->{- no it's not... 4x2, have that with my Mercedes Turbo Diesel > -->> -->{- already, and it's not red either. ;) > -->> --> > -->> -->So put in a transfer case and front axle. :) Or swap engines with a > -->> -->4wd one you like. > -->> --> > -->> -->------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -->> --> Professional driver on closed course. > -->> --> Do not attempt. > -->> -->-------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org > -->-------------- > -->> --> > --> > --> ---- > --> > -->------------------------------------------------------------------------- > --> ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** > --> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > --> ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** > -->------------------------------------------------------------------------- > --> > -->_________________________________________________________________ > -->Fixing up the home? Live Search can help > -->http://imagine-windowslive.com/search/kits/default.aspx?kit=improve&locale=en-US&source=hmemailtaglinenov06&FORM=WLMTAG > --> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 12:44:01 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Turbo Diesel XJ french design forgets one little thing that both the americans and germans go way overboard on... "safety margin". their designs are often quite elegant and if the loads exceed their design... snap. over-engineering is not a bad thing. john On Mon, 20 Nov 2006, michel balea wrote: > --> > -->If you really insist on getting french parts... i can do you all a favor... > -->the dealership is not too far from my parents' place... last time i was > -->there was in 1980.... so they should still be around.... Next trip should be > -->in a few months.... Then of course... i can ask friends, Dad.... > --> > -->French design is not that bad.... front wheel drive in 1934 (citroen)... the > -->first car : a motorized (ox)cart.... of course they forgot the brakes, but > -->that was the second half of the 18th century.... Even if it is out of > -->service.... the concord(e).... Nissan is not doing too bad.... and GM almost > -->fell for it :-)... not to mention perfumes, a shortcut to avoid wasting > -->gallons of water for cleaning purposes..... > --> > -->cheers > --> > -->M {off to his weekly bath.... oh! no! I missed it it was supposed to be > -->Sunday... i guess i will have to wait another week ) > --> > -->From: john > -->Reply-To: john > -->To: Stephen Rigley > -->CC: Dan Black , xj-list , diesel-benz list > -->, Full Size Jeeps > -->Subject: Re: [db] Re: fsj: Turbo Diesel XJ > -->Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 12:08:52 -0800 (PST) > --> > -->On Mon, 20 Nov 2006, Stephen Rigley wrote: > --> > -->> -->http://www.ebay.fr/ > -->> -->I'm sure postage isn't that much ;-) > --> > -->my french is in worse shape than most french autos... > -->although I'm not sure that's possible... ;) > --> > -->there's the leading edge, the bleeding edge, and then the french designs... > --> > -->john > --> > -->> --> > -->> -->Steve > -->> --> > -->> -->On 11/20/06, john wrote: > -->> --> > there are other issues... > -->> --> > > -->> --> > unobtanium being the largest issue... anything French > -->> --> > or Renault is significantly harder to find than any Willys > -->> --> > or AMC parts... in 1992 just the O-ring and sleeve kit for > -->> --> > the 4 cylinder was $800! That's not including pistons, bearings > -->> --> > or gaskets, that's just the sleeves!!! That was 1992, I doubt > -->> --> > you can even get a part for them. > -->> --> > > -->> -->> They only had the All-Aluminum Renault 2.1l Turbo Diesel from 1985 > -->to > -->> --> > 1987. > -->> --> > > -->> -->> That dealers only keep items for about 5 years is also a bad > -->thing... > -->> --> > > -->> -->> Of course you could just go to your local Renault dealership... > -->right? ;) > -->> --> > > -->> --> > Before I convert an XJ to 4wd I'll buy a different one... and > -->> --> > if I really want a Diesel in an XJ I'd use a Mercedes engine. > -->> --> > > -->> --> > The Renault TD used a rubber timing belt, and o-rings every where... > -->> --> > then there was the issue of the Paris-Rhone starter and alternator, > -->> --> > unless you were one of the lucky few with Bosch... > -->> --> > > -->> --> > then we get to the pathetic manual transmissions attached to them, > -->> --> > obviously also french... > -->> --> > > -->> --> > I loved my Diesel XJ, but am quite happy that I no longer have it... > -->> --> > > -->> -->> would I get another one? for the right price in the right > -->condition, > -->> --> > probably... but then again: My name is john, and I'm a > -->> --> > diesel/jeepaholic. :) > -->> --> > > -->> --> > john > -->> --> > > -->> --> > On Mon, 20 Nov 2006, Dan Black wrote: > -->> --> > > -->> --> > > -->john said: > -->> --> > > -->{- no it's not... 4x2, have that with my Mercedes Turbo Diesel > -->> --> > > -->{- already, and it's not red either. ;) > -->> --> > > --> > -->> --> > > -->So put in a transfer case and front axle. :) Or swap engines > -->with a > -->> --> > > -->4wd one you like. > -->> --> > > --> > -->> --> > > > -->-->------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -->> --> > > --> Professional driver on closed course. > -->> --> > > --> Do not attempt. > -->> --> > > -->-------------- Dan Black ------------------------- > -->dan-at-black.org > -->> --> > > -->-------------- > -->> --> > > --> > -->> --> > > -->> --> > ---- > -->> --> > > -->> -->> > -->------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -->> --> > ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** > -->> --> > Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > -->> --> > ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html > -->** > -->> --> > > -->------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -->> --> > > -->> --> > --> > --> ---- > --> > -->------------------------------------------------------------------------- > --> ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** > --> Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > --> ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** > -->------------------------------------------------------------------------- > --> > -->_________________________________________________________________ > -->Talk now to your Hotmail contacts with Windows Live Messenger. > -->http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0020000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://get.live.com/messenger/overview > --> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://JohnMeister.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ** http://freegift.net *** http://greatcom.org/laws/languages.html ** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #2738 **************************