From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Fri Dec 8 18:45:49 2006 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Saturday, December 9 2006 Volume 01 : Number 2749 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: Re: Another EFI retrosystem? Re: fsj: Re: Another EFI retrosystem? RE: fsj: Re: Another EFI retrosystem? Re: fsj: Re: [db] OT: 787, a virtual rollout Re: fsj: Another EFI retrosystem? RE: fsj: Another EFI retrosystem? RE: fsj: Another EFI retrosystem? RE: fsj: Another EFI retrosystem? Re: fsj: Another EFI retrosystem? Re: fsj: Another EFI retrosystem? RE: fsj: Another EFI retrosystem? Re: fsj: Another EFI retrosystem? FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 18:29:17 EST From: Brazzadog-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: Re: Another EFI retrosystem? LOL. Very well put, Michel. However, I must admit that it is intriguing Ben In a message dated 12/7/2006 3:24:28 PM Pacific Standard Time, owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net writes: From: "michel balea" _mbalea-at-hotmail.com_ (mailto:mbalea-at-hotmail.com) remember brother Ockam (ca. 1300): " the solution should not be more complicated than the problem that we are trying to resolve" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 21:41:31 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Another EFI retrosystem? yeah, it's hard to remember that sometimes isn't it. we go through so much pain and suffering and expense to save a mile per gallon... that's one of the reasons I've decided not to re-engine my '91 Grand Wagoneer right now... sure 10mpg is amazingly painful and it won't run on waste veggie oil, but neither is it going to cost me a couple of grand to convert and then deal with all the bugs. :) john On Thu, 7 Dec 2006, Brazzadog-at-aol.com wrote: >-->LOL. Very well put, Michel. However, I must admit that it is intriguing >--> >-->Ben >--> >--> >-->In a message dated 12/7/2006 3:24:28 PM Pacific Standard Time, >-->owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net writes: >-->From: "michel balea" _mbalea-at-hotmail.com_ (mailto:mbalea-at-hotmail.com) >--> >-->remember brother Ockam (ca. 1300): " the solution should not be more >-->complicated than the problem that we are trying to resolve" >--> ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://freegift.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 21:37:34 -0800 From: "Eric Petersen" Subject: RE: fsj: Re: Another EFI retrosystem? Why am I getting cc'd on all of your messaagrs? Eric Eric Petersen Contractors Northwest,Inc. (o) 208-667-2456 (c) 208-691-7424 - -----Original Message----- From: "john" To: "Brazzadog-at-aol.com" Cc: "fsj-at-digest.net" Sent: 12/7/06 9:32 PM Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Another EFI retrosystem? yeah, it's hard to remember that sometimes isn't it. we go through so much pain and suffering and expense to save a mile per gallon... that's one of the reasons I've decided not to re-engine my '91 Grand Wagoneer right now... sure 10mpg is amazingly painful and it won't run on waste veggie oil, but neither is it going to cost me a couple of grand to convert and then deal with all the bugs. :) john On Thu, 7 Dec 2006, Brazzadog-at-aol.com wrote: >-->LOL. Very well put, Michel. However, I must admit that it is intriguing >--> >-->Ben >--> >--> >-->In a message dated 12/7/2006 3:24:28 PM Pacific Standard Time, >-->owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net writes: >-->From: "michel balea" _mbalea-at-hotmail.com_ (mailto:mbalea-at-hotmail.com) >--> >-->remember brother Ockam (ca. 1300): " the solution should not be more >-->complicated than the problem that we are trying to resolve" >--> ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://freegift.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2006 11:14:02 -0800 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: Re: fsj: Re: [db] OT: 787, a virtual rollout Last time I was at the museum of flight they had one of the Lunar Modules in there and a Russian cosmonaut version too. From: john Subject: fsj: Re: [db] OT: 787, a virtual rollout http://www.komotv.com/news/local/4847251.html that did it... the adobe flash player worked... way cool. wonder why I wasn't getting an error msg.... anyway... two of those folks interviewed are part of my group but wait, there's more, had engineers from nasa checking out my lab & s/w setup today... they really liked the real section of the 787 we have in here... cool time to be on the dreamliner... very happy I came back to work here... if you're ever in Everett you have to take the factory tour of the world's largest building (by volume), it's an amazing place, you only get to see a part of it on the tour, but still worth it. Or if you're in Seattle, visit the Museum of Flight... (the museum up here isn't that exciting though.) the one down in Seattle has a Blackbird and the original AF1: http://wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/airforce1-benz.jpg john _________________________________________________________________ View Athlete^Rs Collections with Live Search http://sportmaps.live.com/index.html?source=hmemailtaglinenov06&FORM=MGAC01 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2006 11:51:28 -0800 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: Re: fsj: Another EFI retrosystem? My propane "kit" (used) cost me $200 plus another $50 to have it certified. 2100 carb is fine but the 2150 seems to botch up too easily. I get -at-15 mpg with my 304 with the same 1.08 jetting in my 2100 (haven't done the powervalve yet as my kit was for the 2150 which didn't fit) "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." -Teddy Roosevelt Let me guess.... $999 the propane kit is about $700 to $900, and has gained a lot of respect from extreme wheeler... which was efi is really needed. Otherwise a well tuned carb, even a plane jane 2150 does the work nicely. When i realized a few days ago, that my 360 has been running a 2100 w 1.08 venturi (california smog..... ) remember brother Ockam (ca. 1300): " the solution should not be more complicated than the problem that we are trying to resolve" M _________________________________________________________________ Get the latest Windows Live Messenger 8.1 Beta version. Join now. http://ideas.live.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 11:54:55 -0800 From: "Eric Petersen" Subject: RE: fsj: Another EFI retrosystem? Hi guys...since I am on your list, I have a question; I am looking for a rear exterior window crank for my '79 Cherokee. BJ's Off Road want $40 and some other place in CA wants $75...the local auto yards have been picked clean. Any place else (on the web) you guys can recommend? Thanks, Eric - -----Original Message----- From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of Jim Blair Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 11:51 AM To: mbalea-at-hotmail.com Cc: fsj-at-digest.net Subject: Re: fsj: Another EFI retrosystem? My propane "kit" (used) cost me $200 plus another $50 to have it certified. 2100 carb is fine but the 2150 seems to botch up too easily. I get -at-15 mpg with my 304 with the same 1.08 jetting in my 2100 (haven't done the powervalve yet as my kit was for the 2150 which didn't fit) "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." -Teddy Roosevelt Let me guess.... $999 the propane kit is about $700 to $900, and has gained a lot of respect from extreme wheeler... which was efi is really needed. Otherwise a well tuned carb, even a plane jane 2150 does the work nicely. When i realized a few days ago, that my 360 has been running a 2100 w 1.08 venturi (california smog..... ) remember brother Ockam (ca. 1300): " the solution should not be more complicated than the problem that we are trying to resolve" M _________________________________________________________________ Get the latest Windows Live Messenger 8.1 Beta version. Join now. http://ideas.live.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2006 11:59:11 -0800 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: RE: fsj: Another EFI retrosystem? A: You can rebuild the old one with "metal mender" that pours into the stripped out part and then you push it onto the spline. I did that on mine (I also drilled a couple small holes through the splined area to allow the stuff a better grip and no air bubbles) Hi guys...since I am on your list, I have a question; I am looking for a rear exterior window crank for my '79 Cherokee. BJ's Off Road want $40 and some other place in CA wants $75...the local auto yards have been picked clean. Any place else (on the web) you guys can recommend? Thanks, Eric _________________________________________________________________ All-in-one security and maintenance for your PC. Get a free 90-day trial! http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwlo0050000002msn/direct/01/?href=http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwlo0050000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.windowsonecare.com/?sc_cid=msn_hotmail ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 13:26:39 -0800 From: "Eric Petersen" Subject: RE: fsj: Another EFI retrosystem? All I am missing form the crank is the knob on the end...maybe a place like Napa Auto for a nob? - -----Original Message----- From: Jim Blair [mailto:carnuck1-at-msn.com] Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 11:59 AM To: Eric Petersen; mbalea-at-hotmail.com Cc: fsj-at-digest.net Subject: RE: fsj: Another EFI retrosystem? A: You can rebuild the old one with "metal mender" that pours into the stripped out part and then you push it onto the spline. I did that on mine (I also drilled a couple small holes through the splined area to allow the stuff a better grip and no air bubbles) Hi guys...since I am on your list, I have a question; I am looking for a rear exterior window crank for my '79 Cherokee. BJ's Off Road want $40 and some other place in CA wants $75...the local auto yards have been picked clean. Any place else (on the web) you guys can recommend? Thanks, Eric _________________________________________________________________ All-in-one security and maintenance for your PC. Get a free 90-day trial! http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwlo0050000002msn/direct/01/?href=http://clk. atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwlo0050000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.windowsonec are.com/?sc_cid=msn_hotmail ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2006 16:10:42 CST From: Dan Black Subject: Re: fsj: Another EFI retrosystem? If you don't care if it matches, well, I don't think they sell the knobs separately, but just about any auto parts place should have generic window crank handles (with knobs on them). IIRC, they're pretty universal (and so are old-style door handles like ours). Bring in your old one to compare and make sure, but I think most fit on the same. I also would recommend finding one that sticks out a bit more than low-profile ones; the lower-profile ones scrape your fingers as you turn them. (The stock ones were fine, so if you find one about the same shape and size, you should be fine.) I first thought you wanted an exact match; you're probably stuck with ebay if that's the case. I think half of mine on the '74 are non-matching. "Eric Petersen" said: {- All I am missing form the crank is the knob on the end...maybe a place like {- Napa Auto for a nob? {- {- -----Original Message----- {- From: Jim Blair [mailto:carnuck1-at-msn.com] {- Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 11:59 AM {- To: Eric Petersen; mbalea-at-hotmail.com {- Cc: fsj-at-digest.net {- Subject: RE: fsj: Another EFI retrosystem? {- {- A: You can rebuild the old one with "metal mender" that pours into the {- stripped out part and then you push it onto the spline. I did that on mine {- (I also drilled a couple small holes through the splined area to allow the {- stuff a better grip and no air bubbles) {- {- Hi guys...since I am on your list, I have a question; I am looking for a {- rear exterior window crank for my '79 Cherokee. BJ's Off Road want $40 {- and some other place in CA wants $75...the local auto yards have been {- picked clean. Any place else (on the web) you guys can recommend? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I think mauve has the most RAM. -- Pointy Hair - -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 15:43:29 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Another EFI retrosystem? so, if my '91 360 is only going to get 10 mpg, would it get more with propane? gas is what? 2.50/gal(I drive a Diesel right now) what is propane? how hard would it be to convert my '48 CJ-2A to propane? john On Fri, 8 Dec 2006, Jim Blair wrote: > -->My propane "kit" (used) cost me $200 plus another $50 to have it certified. > -->2100 carb is fine but the 2150 seems to botch up too easily. I get -at-15 mpg > -->with my 304 with the same 1.08 jetting in my 2100 (haven't done the > -->powervalve yet as my kit was for the 2150 which didn't fit) > --> > --> > -->"To announce that there must be no criticism of > -->the President, or that we are to stand by the > -->President, right or wrong, is not only > -->unpatriotic and servile, but is morally > -->treasonable to the American public." -Teddy > -->Roosevelt > --> > --> > -->Let me guess.... $999 > --> > -->the propane kit is about $700 to $900, and has gained a lot of respect from > -->extreme wheeler... which was efi is really needed. Otherwise a well tuned > -->carb, even a plane jane 2150 does the work nicely. > --> > -->When i realized a few days ago, that my 360 has been running a 2100 w 1.08 > -->venturi (california smog..... ) > --> > -->remember brother Ockam (ca. 1300): " the solution should not be more > -->complicated than the problem that we are trying to resolve" > --> > -->M > --> > -->_________________________________________________________________ > -->Get the latest Windows Live Messenger 8.1 Beta version. Join now. > -->http://ideas.live.com > --> ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://freegift.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 15:46:28 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: RE: fsj: Another EFI retrosystem? this appears, at first glance, to be a no-brainer... get the one from BJ's. you're going to pay at least $20 in a yard for something that may not hold up... john On Fri, 8 Dec 2006, Eric Petersen wrote: >-->Hi guys...since I am on your list, I have a question; I am looking for a >-->rear exterior window crank for my '79 Cherokee. BJ's Off Road want $40 >-->and some other place in CA wants $75...the local auto yards have been >-->picked clean. Any place else (on the web) you guys can recommend? >--> >-->Thanks, >--> >-->Eric >--> >-->-----Original Message----- >-->From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of >-->Jim Blair >-->Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 11:51 AM >-->To: mbalea-at-hotmail.com >-->Cc: fsj-at-digest.net >-->Subject: Re: fsj: Another EFI retrosystem? >--> >-->My propane "kit" (used) cost me $200 plus another $50 to have it >-->certified. >-->2100 carb is fine but the 2150 seems to botch up too easily. I get -at-15 >-->mpg >-->with my 304 with the same 1.08 jetting in my 2100 (haven't done the >-->powervalve yet as my kit was for the 2150 which didn't fit) >--> >--> >-->"To announce that there must be no criticism of >-->the President, or that we are to stand by the >-->President, right or wrong, is not only >-->unpatriotic and servile, but is morally >-->treasonable to the American public." -Teddy >-->Roosevelt >--> >--> >-->Let me guess.... $999 >--> >-->the propane kit is about $700 to $900, and has gained a lot of respect >-->from >-->extreme wheeler... which was efi is really needed. Otherwise a well >-->tuned >-->carb, even a plane jane 2150 does the work nicely. >--> >-->When i realized a few days ago, that my 360 has been running a 2100 w >-->1.08 >-->venturi (california smog..... ) >--> >-->remember brother Ockam (ca. 1300): " the solution should not be more >-->complicated than the problem that we are trying to resolve" >--> >-->M >--> >-->_________________________________________________________________ >-->Get the latest Windows Live Messenger 8.1 Beta version. Join now. >-->http://ideas.live.com >--> ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://freegift.com **** http://wagoneers.com ** Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2006 18:35:16 -0800 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: Re: fsj: Another EFI retrosystem? A: I would toss most of the emission junk on it and run a 2100 carb. (Keep the EGR valve and vapor cannister and go high flow cat and dump the AIR piping) Did you get a lockup trans for it? I found that helped mine (or a 999 with lockup for even less mass to spin on takeoff. Less inertia equals better fuel economy) LPG is $1.75 last I checked at Superior, but the lower compression of the later model AMC engines cuts the power made from the 130 octane equiv. Several people back east and in CA are running it in their AMC cars with -at-20 mpg w/o overdrive. (One stroker power Hornet wagon with O/D gets almost 25 on the highway) I don't know what compression ratio the '48 is or if it has hardened seats? (all the '72 up AMC V8 heads are induction hardened. The 6 cyls got the same -at-'75) The conversion is fairly easy as long as you can find the parts. Many of the local offroaders are running LPG with used forklift setups. so, if my '91 360 is only going to get 10 mpg, would it get more with propane? gas is what? 2.50/gal(I drive a Diesel right now) what is propane? how hard would it be to convert my '48 CJ-2A to propane? john _________________________________________________________________ Visit MSN Holiday Challenge for your chance to win up to $50,000 in Holiday cash from MSN today! http://www.msnholidaychallenge.com/index.aspx?ocid=tagline&locale=en-us ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #2749 **************************