From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Tue Mar 13 16:48:52 2007 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Tuesday, March 13 2007 Volume 01 : Number 2807 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: fsj: RE: more butter for your popcorn? fsj: just wondering... fsj: Re: just wondering... fsj: Re: [db] just wondering... fsj: Re: [db] just wondering... RE: fsj: just wondering... RE: fsj: Safety Alert Re: fsj: Re: just wondering... RE: fsj: Re: [db] just wondering... fsj: Re: just wondering... fsj: torqueflite issues RE: fsj: Re: just wondering... RE: fsj: Re: the '00 xj seats FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 11:28:50 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: RE: more butter for your popcorn? On Mon, 12 Mar 2007, Tesar Landon-r16884 wrote: >-->"tires aren't stock... steers hard, brakes >-->are weak (typical), vague feel, " >--> >-->Before condemning the model, go back to the first statement - "tires >-->aren't stock..." >-->The rest may be the result. yes, true. will give the '97 and up xj ONE more chance, this will be the 3rd strike... :0 john >--> >-->- L >--> >-->-----Original Message----- >-->From: owner-xj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-xj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of john >-->Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 4:21 PM >-->To: full size jeep list; xj-list; diesel-benz list >-->Subject: xj: more butter for your popcorn? >--> >-->just test drove the 2000 XJ. >--> >-->not impressed. very nice rig, clean... had been in a minor >-->front end crash... tires aren't stock... steers hard, brakes >-->are weak (typical), vague feel, claustraphobic feel with >-->the roof console... >--> >-->looking at the 2001 on thursday, will probably get and fix >-->that one because it's a bargain and use it until my J10 >-->is done... sure, I'm delusional and optimistic at the same time. :) >--> >-->No way would I part with Shadowfax for that '00 XJ. Need >-->to figure out to make the seat comfortable for my wife. >--> >-->john >--> >--> >--> ----- >-->---------------------------------------------------------------------- >--> Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold >--> http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** >-->---------------------------------------------------------------------- >--> ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 13:31:49 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: just wondering... what do you think it would cost to have something like this done professionally? http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/gw-shortbox.jpg :) john ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 14:59:20 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: just wondering... On Mon, 12 Mar 2007, Bud Boren wrote: > -->A lot! Buy a pickup with a real bed on it. > --> > -->Bud :) I have one... but it only has TWO doors. :) http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/91-gw-custom.jpg the reaction is quite interesting... :) of course I have done something like this before, but my son isn't here to help, can't find the picture right now... :) So, what is it with doing this? Is it "just" because this is the last year and will completely devalue the beast? :) Or is it because you all perceive that this will be a hack job replete with duct tape, silicon and plywood? :) I've seen a couple of these done, if done properly this could be pretty cool. Of course it might be better to do this to something other than a LAST year model... but this is the cleanest most rust free FSJ I've ever owned... I'd drop a Diesel into this thing, WJ seats... fix that bed up to haul veggie oil... might be pretty cool. I like my J10, but it has limits... the Wagoneer just looks massive with that back end... this could be a pretty cool setup... :) After I fix the neutral safety switch (suspect that's the problem with starting and not the alarm system after all.) I may take it over to maaco with this picture and see first off, how hard they'll laugh at me, and two, how much it'd cost. I would set it up so I could open the back and use the back seat for cargo... :) Maybe removeable panels like my old GMC Jimmy... hmmmm.... someone buy this thing before I do something radical... it's not a good idea to leave me unsupervised or to leave vehicles in my driveway for any time at all... :) john > -->----- Original Message ----- From: "john" > -->To: "full size jeep list" > -->Cc: "diesel-benz list" ; "xj-list" > -->Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 1:31 PM > -->Subject: fsj: just wondering... > --> > --> > -->> what do you think it would cost to have something > -->> like this done professionally? > -->> > -->> http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/gw-shortbox.jpg > -->> :) > -->> > -->> john > -->> > -->> ----- > -->> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -->> Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > -->> http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** > -->> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -->> > --> > --> ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 15:37:28 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: [db] just wondering... On Mon, 12 Mar 2007, Edward Pomeroy wrote: > -->Uhhh.... more than you want to spend on a Jeep?? > -->:-) Edward Have Sawzall blades gone up THAT much? :) john > --> > -->john wrote: > --> > -->>what do you think it would cost to have something > -->>like this done professionally? > -->>http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/gw-shortbox.jpg > -->> :) > -->>john ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 19:07:49 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: [db] just wondering... put it on the CJ frame and we got a deal. :) my sister-in-law called from Texas, wondering if an '81 Cj-7 for $1300 was a good deal... 4.2/automatic... :) I told her if she didn't buy it I would. :) which auto would be in that? th400 or 727 or some other poc chry prod? oh, btw, showed the picture to my wife, she just about got ill... the reaction was pretty violent, so that means, I'm assuming, that she didn't like the idea either. ;) john On Mon, 12 Mar 2007, Kevin wrote: >-->He is saving it. Otherwise I'd be headed to washington with the pacer >-->to watch him put it on a CJ frame :) >--> >-->On Mon, Mar 12, 2007 at 03:40:52PM -0500, Alec Cordova wrote: >-->> Off the top of my head, I'd say every last shred of your dignity and >-->> taste, but that's just off the top of my head. ;-) >-->> >-->> Alec >-->> >-->> On 3/12/07, john wrote: >-->> >what do you think it would cost to have something >-->> >like this done professionally? >-->> > >-->> >http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/gw-shortbox.jpg >-->> > >-->> >:) >-->> > >-->> >john >--> ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 04:58:39 +0000 From: "michel balea" Subject: RE: fsj: just wondering... Probably the price of a nice used pick up toyota truck. I was never attracted to the pick up design, sorry guys, yes i passed a very nice J-10 truck once... the seller asked me to beat the current $250 price for a 74 360/QT... ..... you expect me to put my worldly belongings in the open.... or have my head bashed against the rear window..... so now you have 4 seats.... but still the junk is exposed to thieves... rain and ..... dust on the trail... if it snows it will be a good way to measure precipitation... if you are tired, you cannot even sleep in it..... just get a trailer for the chores...... that chop design... do not even let you store too much.... cheers Michel From: john what do you think it would cost to have something like this done professionally? http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/gw-shortbox.jpg :) john ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- _________________________________________________________________ With tax season right around the corner, make sure to follow these few simple tips. http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Taxes/PreparationTips/PreparationTips.aspx?icid=HMFebtagline ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 05:28:32 +0000 From: "michel balea" Subject: RE: fsj: Safety Alert hummm, cannot figure which metal loop you are talking about.... of course the 74 is lap belt... and the 85 does not seems to have those metal loops, unless you are talking about the holding loop onto the floor.... otherwise no plastic cover on the 74... and the 85 was a bit of resto... the plastic have been vaporized.... well broken to pieces.... thanks Michel From: JeepNut Reply-To: JeepNut To: Full Size Jeeps , xj-at-digest.net Subject: fsj: Safety Alert Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2007 10:31:03 -0600 Hi all. I had a seatbelt latch go bad on my GWag. So I pulled the latching belt out of RezRunner and didn't realize until installation that the dadgum things are different widths. So I had to go back to the RezRunner and pull ALL the belts out of the front of it so that everything would match. I'm anal that way. In the process, I discovered a VERY disturbing thing. ALL of the threads in the '88's belt were gone. My theory is that the plastic cover on those belts holds dirt, sand, etc. and with the age of our rides ... that cotton thread just didn't stand a chance here 20+ years later. Where the belt is pushed through the mounting tab it is folded back over upon itself and sewn in a pattern. The way my drivers seat belt was worn, in an accident, with the huge forces generated, it would have easily pulled straight out of the mounting tab and provided little if no protection. Not to mention a roll-over offroad or maybe just some rough trail riding would have pulled this thing completely free. Even more amazing? I'm guessing that the RezRunner had no "plastic covers" on it's belts as it was an 81 Wagoneer, not a Grand Wagoneer ... I'm thinking it wasn't such a GRAND idea to add them, as the belts on the Rez Runner SEEM to be very secure still, with little or no fraying of the fabrics..... interesting..... Vince, if your still out there monitoring, thanks again for the Rez Runner. The belt length of the 81's interestingly is a little shorter than the '88 belt, but it's good incentive for me to NOT grow in girth any more.... lol... I have pictures so you can see how dangerously worn the belts were stored here: http://usera.imagecave.com/JeepNut/ I just signed up for this thing so I could post photos of these and various other things as time goes by.... Let me know if it doesn't work. BE SAFE everybody and have fun! JeepNut _________________________________________________________________ Mortgage rates as low as 4.625% - Refinance $150,000 loan for $579 a month. Intro*Terms https://www2.nextag.com/goto.jsp?product=100000035&url=%2fst.jsp&tm=y&search=mortgage_text_links_88_h27f6&disc=y&vers=743&s=4056&p=5117 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 08:04:24 CDT From: Dan Black Subject: Re: fsj: Re: just wondering... john said: {- what do you think it would cost to have something {- like this done professionally? {- http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/gw-shortbox.jpg I dunno, but I could do a fairly professional photoshop job for maybe $10 or $20. Oh, wait, you meant a real-world job... ;) (And I wasn't trying to insult... It's actually a good photoshop job for something quick to show what you want. Roof rack was the quickest giveaway... followed by the repeating shrubbery.) {- So, what is it with doing this? Is it "just" because {- this is the last year and will completely devalue the {- beast? :) {- Of course it might be better to do this to something other {- than a LAST year model... but this is the cleanest most {- rust free FSJ I've ever owned... If you're doing that kind of body work anyway, you should start with something that you could do more body work to along the way, and leaving the vehicle better than you found it. In addition to not "ruining" a pristine specimen, you also lose less if you screw it up or simply don't like the results. {- I've seen a couple of these done, if done properly this {- could be pretty cool. http://dan.black.org/temp/jeep/ >From Ouray, 2002. Parked just a couple down from my cabin at the KOA. (You can even see my '88 in the background, at the left of #5105 and at the right of #5106.) Looks like the number's even there if you want to ask them any questions. ;) {- I'd drop a Diesel into this thing, WJ seats... fix that {- bed up to haul veggie oil... might be pretty cool. More reasons to start with more of a fixer-upper. {- someone buy this thing before I do something radical... How much? ;) (Just kidding... there's no way I could afford what that's worth.) {- it's not a good idea to leave me unsupervised or to leave {- vehicles in my driveway for any time at all... :) I think we just need to teach you to use Photoshop a little more. Then you can do all the mods you want, just a couple hours per mod, no expense, no screwing up any real world stuff, and you can try each new idea almost as fast as it comes to you. ;) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The irregularities in the printing of this garment are part of its unique design. - -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 06:55:42 -0800 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: RE: fsj: Re: [db] just wondering... A: Usually they came with the 999, even the V8s. Those can be upgraded fairly heavy duty or it can be converted to AW4 with a shorter tcase. (someone was posting on one of the boards about putting a Dana 20 behind one. It'll work as long as the Jeep isn't lifted much) put it on the CJ frame and we got a deal. :) my sister-in-law called from Texas, wondering if an '81 Cj-7 for $1300 was a good deal... 4.2/automatic... :) I told her if she didn't buy it I would. :) which auto would be in that? th400 or 727 or some other poc chry prod? oh, btw, showed the picture to my wife, she just about got ill... the reaction was pretty violent, so that means, I'm assuming, that she didn't like the idea either. ;) john _________________________________________________________________ Play Flexicon: the crossword game that feeds your brain. PLAY now for FREE. http://zone.msn.com/en/flexicon/default.htm?icid=flexicon_hmtagline ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 07:05:21 -0800 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: fsj: Re: just wondering... May I say "ICK"? I've thought about taking the rear section of the roof off one and making it into a pop top like a Jimmy. The neutral safety switch itself may not be the prob. Check the backup lights aren't on when the Jeep is in drive. If they are, the plastic piece inside the trans that operates the detent the broken (I see this a lot in Dodges and Jeeps where the trans pan has been hit but not even dented) From: john Subject: xj: Re: just wondering... On Mon, 12 Mar 2007, Bud Boren wrote: >-->A lot! Buy a pickup with a real bed on it. >--> >-->Bud :) I have one... but it only has TWO doors. :) http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/91-gw-custom.jpg the reaction is quite interesting... :) of course I have done something like this before, but my son isn't here to help, can't find the picture right now... :) So, what is it with doing this? Is it "just" because this is the last year and will completely devalue the beast? :) Or is it because you all perceive that this will be a hack job replete with duct tape, silicon and plywood? :) I've seen a couple of these done, if done properly this could be pretty cool. Of course it might be better to do this to something other than a LAST year model... but this is the cleanest most rust free FSJ I've ever owned... I'd drop a Diesel into this thing, WJ seats... fix that bed up to haul veggie oil... might be pretty cool. I like my J10, but it has limits... the Wagoneer just looks massive with that back end... this could be a pretty cool setup... :) After I fix the neutral safety switch (suspect that's the problem with starting and not the alarm system after all.) I may take it over to maaco with this picture and see first off, how hard they'll laugh at me, and two, how much it'd cost. I would set it up so I could open the back and use the back seat for cargo... :) Maybe removeable panels like my old GMC Jimmy... hmmmm.... someone buy this thing before I do something radical... it's not a good idea to leave me unsupervised or to leave vehicles in my driveway for any time at all... :) john _________________________________________________________________ With tax season right around the corner, make sure to follow these few simple tips. http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Taxes/PreparationTips/PreparationTips.aspx?icid=HMFebtagline ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 08:35:46 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: torqueflite issues On Tue, 13 Mar 2007, Jim Blair wrote: > --> The neutral safety switch > -->itself may not be the prob. Check the backup lights aren't on when the Jeep > -->is in drive. If they are, the plastic piece inside the trans that operates > -->the detent the broken (I see this a lot in Dodges and Jeeps where the trans > -->pan has been hit but not even dented) thanx, will look at it when I have time... john ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 16:11:48 +0000 From: "michel balea" Subject: RE: fsj: Re: just wondering... Here is a quick sawzall job... from FSJ network..... http://www.fsjnetwork.com/fsjn/viewtopic.php?t=1979&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=200 the glass is sitting low for rear view... because of the 6" or so lift... the driver cannot spot the cars behind its bumper, if the glass was at the usual roof height. IF you really go that route.... practive on a spare vehicle... you will always find suprises..... but most of those "beds" are only a place for a spare tire.... not worth the work ..... Michel From: "Jim Blair" Reply-To: "Jim Blair" To: FSJ-at-digest.net, john-at-wagoneers.com, xj-at-digest.net Subject: fsj: Re: just wondering... Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 07:05:21 -0800 May I say "ICK"? I've thought about taking the rear section of the roof off one and making it into a pop top like a Jimmy. The neutral safety switch itself may not be the prob. Check the backup lights aren't on when the Jeep is in drive. If they are, the plastic piece inside the trans that operates the detent the broken (I see this a lot in Dodges and Jeeps where the trans pan has been hit but not even dented) From: john Subject: xj: Re: just wondering... On Mon, 12 Mar 2007, Bud Boren wrote: >-->A lot! Buy a pickup with a real bed on it. >--> >-->Bud :) I have one... but it only has TWO doors. :) http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/91-gw-custom.jpg the reaction is quite interesting... :) of course I have done something like this before, but my son isn't here to help, can't find the picture right now... :) So, what is it with doing this? Is it "just" because this is the last year and will completely devalue the beast? :) Or is it because you all perceive that this will be a hack job replete with duct tape, silicon and plywood? :) I've seen a couple of these done, if done properly this could be pretty cool. Of course it might be better to do this to something other than a LAST year model... but this is the cleanest most rust free FSJ I've ever owned... I'd drop a Diesel into this thing, WJ seats... fix that bed up to haul veggie oil... might be pretty cool. I like my J10, but it has limits... the Wagoneer just looks massive with that back end... this could be a pretty cool setup... :) After I fix the neutral safety switch (suspect that's the problem with starting and not the alarm system after all.) I may take it over to maaco with this picture and see first off, how hard they'll laugh at me, and two, how much it'd cost. I would set it up so I could open the back and use the back seat for cargo... :) Maybe removeable panels like my old GMC Jimmy... hmmmm.... someone buy this thing before I do something radical... it's not a good idea to leave me unsupervised or to leave vehicles in my driveway for any time at all... :) john _________________________________________________________________ With tax season right around the corner, make sure to follow these few simple tips. http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Taxes/PreparationTips/PreparationTips.aspx?icid=HMFebtagline _________________________________________________________________ Find a local pizza place, movie theater, and more^E.then map the best route! http://maps.live.com/?icid=hmtag1&FORM=MGAC01 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 23:40:52 +0000 From: "michel balea" Subject: RE: fsj: Re: the '00 xj seats seats are tricky.... because of the trany hump..... it cam be a challenge to fit the pedestal....and even if the base fit.... the length of the glide.... i bought a pair of neon seats.... but too wide for the wagoneer... they ended on the wrangler... w one issue... if you are 5'8" or shorter you will not touch the pedals... and for a stick shift.... that can be tricky.... people claim success w escort to mustang seats (like 89 to 95ish) being an almost direct bolt on. I never found a clean set of seat at the junkyard... so never tried that combo.... got some wagoneer w the leather disease.... slapped some leather piece over the gash, glued w barge.... and sheepskin on top.... Michel 74 wag From: john Reply-To: john To: Jon Filina CC: Jim Hoffman , full size jeep list , xj-list , diesel-benz list Subject: fsj: Re: [db] the '00 xj Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 20:00:50 -0700 (PDT) yeah, we need to figure out how to make the stock seat more comfy, and keep the heater working... tall order. :) need to work with the 124 seats... not a problem in the FSJ, just used a different seat, plan for superdawg is a pair of WJ seats. :) was thinking about WJ seats in an XJ too... but it doesn't look good for an XJ for now, at least not to replace shadowfax... BIG difference in the way the XJ and the 124 drove... very happy with the 300D. I think I need a few close calls like this... just wish my J10 would hurry up and get done so I can start using all this veggie oil. :) john > -->Yo, Big John! Ya want more comfy seats in Shadowfax? I considered the ones > -->in my 240D about the most comfortable. The W124 and W123 are pretty close > -->in dims. I wonder if a 240D or 300D seat would fit. The seats in my W126, > -->300SD, are comfy but they don't fit me as well as my 240D. I don't think > -->they'd work in a 124, though. > --> > -->Big Jim! I'm here for ya. I'm just not around here as much as I'd like to > -->be. > -->Yo, Alec! Are ya still with us? Or, did ur neighbor's wine sneak up on > -->ya... > -->Jon ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- _________________________________________________________________ Mortgage rates as low as 4.625% - Refinance $150,000 loan for $579 a month. Intro*Terms https://www2.nextag.com/goto.jsp?product=100000035&url=%2fst.jsp&tm=y&search=mortgage_text_links_88_h27f6&disc=y&vers=743&s=4056&p=5117 ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #2807 **************************