From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Thu Mar 22 15:51:47 2007 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Thursday, March 22 2007 Volume 01 : Number 2818 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: fsj: '91 GW on a '90 Dodge Cummins? Re: OT: The French (was "Re: fsj: another Diesel dream? ") Re: OT: The French (was "Re: fsj: another Diesel dream? ") fsj: Re: xj: question for Curtis on ATF for the 727 fsj: RE: xj: May be my new truck? (non-Jeep) Re: [db] Re: fsj: another Diesel dream? Re: fsj: Re: xj: question for Curtis on ATF for the 727 RE: fsj: lawsuit on low sulfur CA Diesel, early 90s... RE: fsj: '91 GW on a '90 Dodge Cummins? Re: OT: The French (was "Re: fsj: another Diesel dream? ") Re: fsj: Re: xj: question for Curtis on ATF for the 727 Re: fsj: Re: xj: question for Curtis on ATF for the 727 Re: [db] Re: fsj: another Diesel dream? Re: fsj: Re: xj: question for Curtis on ATF for the 727 FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 12:06:33 -0700 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: Re: fsj: '91 GW on a '90 Dodge Cummins? A: I got all the bugs out of Brian's old BBD in his '81 Wagoneer (non-compu carb) and it just needs dialing in to be perfect. I wasn't feeling too wonderful (pushed myself to get my van ready to go, then it let me down at the last minute again. It runs perfectly until I try to go to the swap meet with it. I wonder if it has green primer? ) or we'd have done it last week when he was visiting. The computer one on the '82 Spirit I got from him works well now (I disconnected the computer and did a quickie wiring bypass so I could drive it to my place. We even got through the 14" of snow to get it there, but had no brakes due to the &%$#-at-* 9" drum system falling apart AGAIN), but I discovered the 4.2L was suffering from cam walk, which messed with the running. I will be doing a 4.0L timing cover and cam button (maybe cam too) as well as a 4.0L head, HO EFI and AW4 swap on it. I want it to run PERFECT the first time my wife takes the wheel. At least it can handle the 4 miles of "driveway" that the class 1 trail passes for to get to my place. I have decided the sell the '90 YJ AX-15/D300 clocking ring/NP208J combo for $500 obo and just go with the AW4/NP242 I have in the Comanche Kevin wrote: HAH. I finally have all the pieces to put the weber 38/38 on the 258 in the 74 cherokee. The 83 p!ssed me off for the last time, so it's parked on the trailer, and I'll put a 4.6L stroker in it with a different five speed sometime after things calm down. And I find a willing XJ to give its parts up. And no, that willing XJ isn't my 89. We won't even talk about the spare parts, or the jeeps that keep appearing on the way to work with for sale signs wanting to be bought :) _________________________________________________________________ Get a FREE Web site, company branded e-mail and more from Microsoft Office Live! http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/mcrssaub0050001411mrt/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 12:17:54 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: OT: The French (was "Re: fsj: another Diesel dream? ") If you get to France, the south is the nicest... Nice is nice. :) ah pleasant memories of beautiful countryside... and pictures... (mostly slides) john On Thu, 22 Mar 2007, Dan Black wrote: >-->john said: >-->{- Why is it that when I think of the French, I think >-->{- they should adapt Proverbs 16:18 as their national verse. >--> >-->Actually, that's one of my email sigs. But I made a different cultural >-->link to it... I'll include it as my sig for this email. >--> >--> >-->Also, appropriately, a Top5 list came out today that had an item that >-->poked fun at the French: >--> >--> Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 00:00:33 -0700 >--> From: "Top5 Military" >--> Subject: Top5 Military - 3/22/07 >--> >--> The Top 10 Signs You Hired The Wrong Mercenaries >--> >--> 8> "Oy sont les drapeaux blancs?" ("Where are the white flags?") >--> >-->[ Copyright 2007 by Chris White All rights reserved. ] >-->[ Do not forward, publish, broadcast, or use ] >-->[ in any manner without crediting "TopFive.com" ] >--> >--> >-->But, yes, the few French people I've met have been nice, and I'd like to >-->visit France. >--> >-->------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >--> Pride goeth before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall. >--> -- Proverbs, 16:18 >--> >--> Don't get cocky. >--> -- Han Solo, Star Wars 4 >-->-------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- >--> ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 12:19:18 -0700 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: Re: OT: The French (was "Re: fsj: another Diesel dream? ") My wife and I have plans to go in a year or so. I have to brush up on my language skills and she's trying to learn. (I only learn and get practice with Spanish from all the Central and S. American clienthle at NAPA these days) If you get to France, the south is the nicest... Nice is nice. :) ah pleasant memories of beautiful countryside... and pictures... (mostly slides) john _________________________________________________________________ Live Search Maps ^V find all the local information you need, right when you need it. http://maps.live.com/?icid=hmtag2&FORM=MGAC01 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 12:37:09 -0700 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: fsj: Re: xj: question for Curtis on ATF for the 727 A: Take a sniff of the fluid in the trans and then smell your fluid. Dexron and Ford fluid smells quite different to most people. Some shops goof and put in ATF +4 which is NOT reverse compatible for the 3 speed automatics (I don't care what anyone tells you. I have it on good authority direct from the oil manufacturers to NOT run it in 3 speed autos) It tends to make them shift too soft and burn up quicker. I run Dexron and a can of STP engine oil treatment in most RWD automatics (haven't put it into an AW4). Same goes with many on the big list that had 727s and TH400s near death's door (wouldn't engage when cold and/or disengaged when hot) Going from (albeit damaged) memory, Type F "grabs" then releases. Dexron slips then engages. +4 "cools" after engaging. From: "David Bierschank" Subject: Re: xj: question for Curtis on ATF for the 727 I don't know that they made that mistake..... It is just a thought that it could be what is wrong. I had no problems before the filter / fluid change. I am thinking, I may try draining and refilling, to see if that helps. I would like to hear what the symptoms are if it is filled with the wrong fluid, so thanks for asking the question for me. David _________________________________________________________________ It^Rs tax season, make sure to follow these few simple tips http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Taxes/PreparationTips/PreparationTips.aspx?icid=HMMartagline ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 12:45:34 -0700 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: fsj: RE: xj: May be my new truck? (non-Jeep) A: They have another SUV version coming out with up to 350 miles range up to 155 mph with 644 HP (in hub electric motors), but it'll cost -at-$50K more than the little pickup. It's co-designed with Lotus and called the Zap-X. Loks kind of like the Cayenne at first glance. From: "Allen Zylstra" Subject: RE: xj: May be my new truck? (non-Jeep) It only does 40 mph and a range of 25 miles. I would be concerned about not making my commute of 22 miles. I wouldn't mind an electric car for commuting. I would need to be able to do at least 50 though. Allen _________________________________________________________________ It^Rs tax season, make sure to follow these few simple tips http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Taxes/PreparationTips/PreparationTips.aspx?icid=HMMartagline ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 14:13:17 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] Re: fsj: another Diesel dream? On Thu, 22 Mar 2007, jasonbassett-at-juno.com wrote: >-->Yeah, but isn't that going to be a royal pain? Adding AC is >-->no "minimally invasive surgery," and the automatics are often diferent >-->lengths than the manuals, requiring shaft replacements and sometimes >-->xfer cases to be moved! Maybe you could float gears or >-->something.....there's gotta be another way to save John's back......my >-->company's '94 GMC Sonoma floats gears like a charm once you get used >-->to it.......gotta be hard on the sychros, though........ those 4 speeds require the clutch... had one in my '77 Cherokee... nice trannies... and for the most part the seating is such that my back isn't severely impacted. You can ask Bruce about my back... we were standing around looking at his Diesel Benzes and my leg acted up... scared him... really spazzed out on me... had to sit down right away... can not stand for very long or that happens... can walk and sit all day, but can't stand or run any more. :( as far as the differences, the 727 was used behind this engine in the cj10s and a few other rigs, xfr case is a dana 300 this year, but others can be mated up... driveshafts will cost $200-300 to modify, not a big cost overall. as far as the AC, on the FSJs and IHs adding AC after the fact isn't hard, hangs under the dash... brackets on the engine, pop the plugs in the firewall... add a belt. ;) they changed the ac in '80 on the scouts so that will make it a little more challenging... chances are I won't be using this on the freeway for long trips so not having a/c won't be an issue. we'll see... this was built when the double nickel was in force... my '82 Ford Ranger with a Diesel was very unhappy at anything over 55. mileage dropped drastically... hopefully the scout will be ok at 65 to 70. >-->However, changing things behind the engine is usually easier than >-->changing the whole drivetrain from fan to axle.......also, >-->transmissions are lighter than bodies........dunno; maybe the clutch >-->won't bother you on this one? [Your pain will be drowned out by the >-->intense feeling of euphoria you attain as your diesel powerplant >-->klatta-klatta-s down the road and you won't feel it? Pass the popcorn] another thought is to use the T-5 from my J10 so I can get freeway speeds out of this thing... should hold up to the 100 horses... :) john >--> >-->Jason >--> >-->-- john wrote: >-->will get pix later... >--> >-->only two downsides to this rig, manual trans and no a/c, >-->both of which were options and parts are available, so it's >-->not a show stopper. >--> >-->john >--> >-->On Thu, 22 Mar 2007, jasonbassett-at-juno.com wrote: >--> >-->>-->Do it, Mr. Popcorn-ent. >-->>--> >-->>-->This is probably about the best thing to happen to you in years. A >-->>-->ready-made, Jeep-like diesel 4x4 is almost impossible to find, as >-->you >-->>-->know, unless you like big old Jimmy's, which you apparently aren't >-->too >-->>-->keen on. If you like this thing, it certainly sounds like a slam >-->dunk. >-->>--> >-->>-->Got pix? >-->>--> >-->>-->J >-->>--> >-->>-->-- john wrote: >-->>-->for some reason my back wasn't bothered with the stick >-->>-->in my J10... or my '77 Cherokee... only in XJs. >-->>--> >-->>-->jim and I were chatting about swapping in a 727 out of a CJ10 >-->>-->setup with the same engine... might work. >-->>--> >-->>-->wouldn't chop it up... only thing I might consider >-->>-->is putting round headlights in it. ;) >-->>--> >-->>-->and getting a softtop for it... >-->>--> >-->>-->with the scout I'd have all I'm looking for, if the >-->>-->ride was tolerable. >-->>--> >-->>-->top off... pickup... >-->>-->back seat in... passengers... >-->>-->dual fuel... 20 in town, 25+ on the highway >-->>-->4x4... >-->>--> >-->>-->classic... >-->>--> >-->>-->I may even float a loan to get this... would sell >-->>-->off the entire fleet the ride is tolerable... ;) >-->>-->even the fun little cj... no need for a cj with a scout, right? >-->>--> >-->>-->john >-->>--> >-->>-->On Wed, 21 Mar 2007, Kevin wrote: >-->>--> >-->>-->>-->Scouts are pretty wicked beasts, and that vintage is actually >-->>-->quite similar >-->>-->>-->to a full size jeep. Well, except the electrical gremlins ;) >-->>-->>--> >-->>-->>-->Trans is a T-19 if manual, 727 if auto. Turbodiesel scouts are >-->>-->incredibly >-->>-->>-->uncommon. Jim really likes that 3.3L nissan diesel for some >-->>-->reason. They're >-->>-->>-->decent enough I guess. Axles are dana 44 front and rear, think >-->the >-->>-->transfercase >-->>-->>-->is a dana 300. >-->>-->>--> >-->>-->>-->Scout will be two door, and remind you more of a cherokee. Not >-->as >-->>-->many >-->>-->>-->refinements as a GW, and certainly not a pickup. >-->>-->>--> >-->>-->>-->For a good price, I'd probably go for it. I would certainly not >-->>-->even consider >-->>-->>-->parting/chopping/etc one in good condition, as they are >-->incredibly >-->>-->uncommon >-->>-->>-->(especially the 1980, a strike killed off IHC's light duty line >-->>-->that year). >-->>-->>-->Probably will have a heavy clutch like a FSJ usually does when >-->>-->equipped thus, >-->>-->>-->which probably won't make your back too happy. Could always >-->flip >-->>-->it with an >-->>-->>-->ad on craigslist saying something like "wheel on biodiesel" or >-->>-->something. >-->>-->>--> >-->>-->>-->K >-->>-->>--> >-->>-->>-->On Wed, Mar 21, 2007 at 08:25:15PM -0700, john wrote: >-->>-->>-->> ran across another factory Diesel setup... guy >-->>-->>-->> won't trade the GW... wants about 9k for it... >-->>-->>-->> >-->>-->>-->> found an '80 scout with a factory nissan turbo diesel, >-->>-->>-->> always garaged and only used as a hunting rig , >-->>-->>-->> all original paperwork including sticker,build sheet and >-->>-->>-->> sales slip with warranty info included, 4 speed trans, >-->>-->>-->> factory paint that still shines and all doors shut like a >-->band >-->>-->new car >-->>-->>-->> >-->>-->>-->> so... is an '80 scout with a turbo Diesel even in the >-->>-->>-->> same class as a Grand Wagoneer or a J10? :) >-->>-->>-->> >-->>-->>-->> it has a removeable top... :) >-->>-->>--> >-->>--> >-->>--> ----- >-->>-->------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->--- >-->>--> Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they >-->mold >-->>--> http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** >-->>-->------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->--- >-->>--> >--> >--> ----- >-->---------------------------------------------------------------------- >--> Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold >--> http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** >-->---------------------------------------------------------------------- >--> ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 16:13:51 CDT From: Dan Black Subject: Re: fsj: Re: xj: question for Curtis on ATF for the 727 "Jim Blair" said: {- A: Take a sniff of the fluid in the trans and then smell your fluid. Dexron {- and Ford fluid smells quite different to most people. Some shops goof and {- put in ATF +4 which is NOT reverse compatible for the 3 speed automatics (I {- don't care what anyone tells you. I have it on good authority direct from {- the oil manufacturers to NOT run it in 3 speed autos) It tends to make them {- shift too soft and burn up quicker. Errr, really? Cuz that's all you can find in stores anymore, and that's what I was adding when my transmission was leaking. (Just tightened up the bolts on the pan, which was disturbingly loose, and stopped the leak completely or close to it.) So where would I find ATF+3? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- When I was a kid, we walked ten miles to school every day, sometimes in the rain or snow. Man, did we feel stupid when we found out there was a bus. - -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 14:29:36 -0700 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: RE: fsj: lawsuit on low sulfur CA Diesel, early 90s... Their oil products far outshine the pathos of their electrical stuff (I'm not sure the companies are related) Lucas has been into racing for quite some time. From: "michel balea" Subject: RE: fsj: lawsuit on low sulfur CA Diesel, early 90s... Lucas..... is this so good? For the euro folks, and british car afficionados... Lucas is the british "electrical god" aka prince of darkness... because they are know to be a 3 points system: off, dim, flicker.... Michel _________________________________________________________________ Get a FREE Web site, company branded e-mail and more from Microsoft Office Live! http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/mcrssaub0050001411mrt/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 14:39:09 -0700 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: RE: fsj: '91 GW on a '90 Dodge Cummins? A: Back stepping to the Ford for a sec. One with either a C6 or E4OD would bolt up to the NP208F I have for sale (32 spline) but the FSJ frame would need a bit of beefing to handle the engine's weight and vibes. A friend of mine in Canada parted out an '88 E350 cube van with the 7.3 diesel (I put the motor into his '91 Cube Van which had a ventilated block ) and I considered using the frame from that with a GW body on top (axles are close enough width. I put the Dana 61 I had before under my son's '83 Cherokee 2 dr with no probs but it was quite lifted) From: john Subject: fsj: '91 GW on a '90 Dodge Cummins? NOTHING definite yet... haven't even looked at the Dodge yet... just a thought... Selling off the pieces I have might cover the costs... might even be less expensive than buying the adapter for the transmission... john _________________________________________________________________ The average US Credit Score is 675. The cost to see yours: $0 by Experian. http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=660600&bcd=EMAILFOOTERAVERAGE ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 22:19:07 +0000 From: "michel balea" Subject: Re: OT: The French (was "Re: fsj: another Diesel dream? ") Good Jim, spanish is so close..... no problemo, pas de problemes South is nice, and as soon as you migrate from the popular spots, it is even better.... and avoid at all costs... July and August.... I like May-June... but sometimes the weather can be unusually cold... wet.... so you can go south.... wait a few days... then go back north.... and north - south is more or less a line defined by the Loire valley.... If it is really bad... Italy or spain are nearby.... Michel From: "Jim Blair" Reply-To: "Jim Blair" To: john-at-wagoneers.com, dan-at-black.org CC: fsj-at-digest.net Subject: Re: OT: The French (was "Re: fsj: another Diesel dream? ") Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 12:19:18 -0700 My wife and I have plans to go in a year or so. I have to brush up on my language skills and she's trying to learn. (I only learn and get practice with Spanish from all the Central and S. American clienthle at NAPA these days) If you get to France, the south is the nicest... Nice is nice. :) ah pleasant memories of beautiful countryside... and pictures... (mostly slides) john _________________________________________________________________ Live Search Maps ^V find all the local information you need, right when you need it. http://maps.live.com/?icid=hmtag2&FORM=MGAC01 _________________________________________________________________ Exercise your brain! Try Flexicon. http://games.msn.com/en/flexicon/default.htm?icid=flexicon_hmemailtaglinemarch07 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 15:20:14 -0700 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: Re: fsj: Re: xj: question for Curtis on ATF for the 727 A: You want Dexron III (which is reverse compatible with the old Dexron II) "Jim Blair" said: {- A: Take a sniff of the fluid in the trans and then smell your fluid. Dexron {- and Ford fluid smells quite different to most people. Some shops goof and {- put in ATF +4 which is NOT reverse compatible for the 3 speed automatics (I {- don't care what anyone tells you. I have it on good authority direct from {- the oil manufacturers to NOT run it in 3 speed autos) It tends to make them {- shift too soft and burn up quicker. Errr, really? Cuz that's all you can find in stores anymore, and that's what I was adding when my transmission was leaking. (Just tightened up the bolts on the pan, which was disturbingly loose, and stopped the leak completely or close to it.) So where would I find ATF+3? _________________________________________________________________ The average US Credit Score is 675. The cost to see yours: $0 by Experian. http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=660600&bcd=EMAILFOOTERAVERAGE ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 17:23:55 CDT From: Dan Black Subject: Re: fsj: Re: xj: question for Curtis on ATF for the 727 OK, that's what a local friend just told me, too -- may have to get that drained and replaced on my '88. So what does the TH400 (on my '74) take? That is, what's compatible that I can buy today? ;) "Jim Blair" said: {- A: You want Dexron III (which is reverse compatible with the old Dexron II) {- {- {- "Jim Blair" said: {- {- A: Take a sniff of the fluid in the trans and then smell your fluid. {- Dexron {- {- and Ford fluid smells quite different to most people. Some shops goof and {- {- put in ATF +4 which is NOT reverse compatible for the 3 speed automatics {- (I {- {- don't care what anyone tells you. I have it on good authority direct from {- {- the oil manufacturers to NOT run it in 3 speed autos) It tends to make {- them {- {- shift too soft and burn up quicker. {- {- Errr, really? Cuz that's all you can find in stores anymore, and that's {- what I was adding when my transmission was leaking. (Just tightened up {- the bolts on the pan, which was disturbingly loose, and stopped the leak {- completely or close to it.) So where would I find ATF+3? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Nothing is less productive than to make more efficient what should not be done at all. -- Peter Drucker - -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 15:34:34 -0700 From: "Jim Blair" Subject: Re: [db] Re: fsj: another Diesel dream? Specs Stolen from http://www.expeditionlandrover.info/enginePwrSpecs.htm SD33T Diesel 6 cyl, no intercooler Power (KW/HP-at-RPM) 105/141 -at- 3800 Torque (NM/LbFt-at-RPM) 255/188 -at- 2000 Weight 305 KG/ 673 Lbs Notes: SD33 from '76 - '80 International Harvester Scout, SD33T from 1980 only _________________________________________________________________ The average US Credit Score is 675. The cost to see yours: $0 by Experian. http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=660600&bcd=EMAILFOOTERAVERAGE ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 15:48:49 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Re: xj: question for Curtis on ATF for the 727 I only use AMSOIL Synthetic ATF... it's compatible with all of them... kind of scarey that if you put the wrong kind in that damage could result... makes the price of amsoil seem well worth the investment, and the benefits of longevity (the fluid lasts longer) and extra cooling too... john On Thu, 22 Mar 2007, Dan Black wrote: >-->"Jim Blair" said: >-->{- A: Take a sniff of the fluid in the trans and then smell your fluid. Dexron >-->{- and Ford fluid smells quite different to most people. Some shops goof and >-->{- put in ATF +4 which is NOT reverse compatible for the 3 speed automatics (I >-->{- don't care what anyone tells you. I have it on good authority direct from >-->{- the oil manufacturers to NOT run it in 3 speed autos) It tends to make them >-->{- shift too soft and burn up quicker. >--> >-->Errr, really? Cuz that's all you can find in stores anymore, and that's >-->what I was adding when my transmission was leaking. (Just tightened up >-->the bolts on the pan, which was disturbingly loose, and stopped the leak >-->completely or close to it.) So where would I find ATF+3? >--> >-->------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >--> When I was a kid, we walked ten miles to school every day, >--> sometimes in the rain or snow. >--> Man, did we feel stupid when we found out there was a bus. >-->-------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- >--> ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #2818 **************************