From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Fri Jan 4 16:29:52 2008 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Saturday, January 5 2008 Volume 01 : Number 2982 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: RE: fsj: Help needed with Italian Grand Wagoneer fsj: RE: [db] fuel heating for Omega RE: fsj: Help needed with Italian Grand Wagoneer Re: fsj: Help needed with Italian Grand Wagoneer (fwd) FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 22:13:32 +0000 From: michel balea Subject: RE: fsj: Help needed with Italian Grand Wagoneer Happy New Year to our friends accross the pond. Luca, very nice grand Wagoneer.... 87 or newer? When the weather clears, we can measure the dipstick from tube seal to bottom... i have a metric measuring tape.... will send w pict. At least it will clear the oil issue.... Which oil are you using.... 20W50 when the temperature drops below 12 degrees centigrade, will make the engine crank abit slowler. In your pictures, it seems like some mountains vegetation from northern Italy. Believe it or not, we are having he biggest storm in Northern California in the last 10 years or so. The streets are littered w debris. As for the performances, I would start on the little things.... the basics: is timing set properly as per specs, idle mixture and so on.... It seems like what has been done is changing a lot of parts without really trying to do a thorough diagnostic...... Basically,, you are the mechanic, or you need to find someone familiar w american engines from the 70-80's. Our other friends can help. I think there is another Italian wagoneer's owner in one of the other lists.... I would focus on the engine function: it seems like the accelerator valve is in need of replacement.... hesitation from startup is a sign, such as running poor on acceleration... the power valve could be either connected to the wrong port... and dumping a lot of fuel down the manifold... As John said.... carefully checking the vacuum routing is key..... check Michael's schematics. On the transmission, i would check the oil level first... i can picture and measure the diptick for the automatic transmission.... then if the oil is dirty....change the oil and filter.... Some will say no.... but.... this would be a good check on oil level and fluid quality, and adjusting the bands.... May be not the easiest to do in Italy.... You need to find someone who serviced american cars (Chrysler) or british cars: the jaguar rolls and others used the TH400, so doing the TF727 may not be too far off.... nearby. I was nearby in October... may be soon. I will forward to a french wagoneer owner.. who is in Toulouse..... as you said "arreevedertchi" Michel 74wagoneer 85Grandwagoneer In San Francisco, and sometimes in Europe > Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 13:07:41 -0800 > From: john-at-wagoneers.com > To: stef.dolly-at-chello.nl; abergsk-at-online.no; heinkeltommy-at-hotmail.com; Antti-Ville.Nauha-at-kemira.com; fsj-at-digest.net; campo-at-midwayadv.com > Subject: fsj: Help needed with Italian Grand Wagoneer > 1) I'm not sure what the problem might be with the engine. I would > replace all the vacuum lines and make sure they match the diagram > under the hood, and that all bolts on the intake manifold are > torqued correctly. Check the spark plug wiring order as well: > http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/tech/firingorder.html > > > Then, I would run a compression test on the engine cylinders. > I ran a test on my '89 Grand Wagoneer and got these results: > Compression test on 360 V8 reads: 135, 140, 130, 130, 130, 120, 135 and 145 > > This reading is in PSI - Pounds per Square Inch. I'm not sure what unit > of measure you would use. I have a shareware tool that will convert > it into metric, you can download it from: > http://wagoneers.com/CS/TOOLS/Convert.exe > > > 2) This sounds like the transmission may be failing. The Torqueflite > 727 is not very long lived. You may need to have it rebuilt. > > I would add an external transmission cooler and use Synthetic ATF. > The transmission does NOT route oil to the cooler when in PARK. > > 3) I would recommend joining the FSJ list on digest.net. > http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/FSJ-list.html > On Fri, 4 Jan 2008, MIDWAYadv wrote: > # I have had some problems to the carburetor and I have > # practically re-make all the connections from the tank to the motor. > # I have bought an other carburetor re-conditioned from the > # teamgrandwagoneer but also it had one problem. > # I have changed also the distributor Assembly, the ignition coil, the ignitio > # module the starter Relay e many others parts but the motor stretches no good. > # it is like if the motor it did not work melted, limpid and round. Also > # when I accelerate it does not go smooth as it would have 8 > # cylinders of that piston displacement. > > See #1 above. > > # Strange what happens one... if I put oil in differentiates them to the > # just level, the motor does not strike par, if then I remove it and I > # leave the oil to the minimal level the motor goes decidedly better. > # I believe that the dipstick oil of the level of the oil of differentiates > # is not original... but I do not succeed to find of one original. > # Moreover when the car is cold seems that the D automatic drive or the L drive > # slips... is like as the drive without power , it uncouples without warning > # then as soon as I raise the number of turns of the motor, > # without warning is coupled and left again. > # When the car is warm does not have more this problem. Perhaps then the oil of > # the change goes in > # pressure and all it goes well. In any case I am angry why I would > # want to use it in easy way and instead these problems they render its > # use indeed unpleasant. I > > See #2 above. > > > # would want that all good went and I would want to resolve all the problems. > # We can remain in contact so, you can help me to understand problems and to > # indicate to me where i can acquire pieces in America? > > See #3 above. > > # It would be a very great fortune for me. hello Luca > # in the next one mail I send the photos to you of the car > > > http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/rigs/Luca-IT-GW/ > > # Excuse me for my no good english > > Only if you excuse my Italian. :) > > arrevadirtchee. :) > > john _________________________________________________________________ Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live. http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 14:25:54 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: fsj: RE: [db] fuel heating for Omega Dave, One of the guys on the DieselBenz list reminded me that he came up with a simple means of doing this as well: http://wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/TECH/WVO/heater/ Here's the design issue... I only want to heat the Auxillary, or maybe the Main Tank... I have a choice actually don't I? :) The main tank is plastic... has a skid plate under it... would hold heat better wouldn't it? Ok, that's one part, the second issue is that the tank selector solenoid is on the frame mid-ship. Running additional lines from the top of the engine to the selector and earlier are part of the issue of using coolant to heat the fuel. I don't want to heat the regular Diesel or the BioDiesel as it would alter it's characteristics, possibly reducing it's lubricity and damaging the pump. The idea of heating WVO is that it's viscosity is greater at "normal" temps and needs to be heated up to obtain the same viscosity as normal #2 fuel. So, the heating of fuel prior to the selector valve and only for the tank with veggie oil means I've got about 4 feet of uninsulated line to travel to get to the pump... and I don't want to heat normal Diesel. So, I'm thinking that if I use the main tank and put a small auxillary pump to constantly run the fuel in the plastic tank, the main tank, through a heater to obtain 160 degrees or slightly higher... Now, I'm thinking... are you ready... to use the exhaust system... I could put a water jacket around the exhaust system and run steel/copper fuel lines in that heated water... I'd wrap the fuel lines around the exhaust pipe themselves but the opportunity for failure would provide too much entertainment. :) think of the secondary benefits, reduced noise! :) (I'm sure there are better ideas, but that one popped to mind. :) that there is a time lag between idea and implementation in my life is probably a good thing... john ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- there's a solution for every problem; problem is can we afford the solution? - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Thu, 3 Jan 2008, David Ashby wrote: # John, # # Check out the marine heat exchangers into which you could plumb the engine # coolant (in your case heat) lines. These may be overkill, but unless you # want to have a significant electrical load during most vehicle operational # states, the veggie fuel should be heated with the waste heat from the engine # cooling system, then "trimmed" up to temperature with electricity, only if # necessary. # http://www.ejbowman.co.uk/pdf/engine.pdf # http://www.ejbowman.co.uk/pdf/hydraulic_oil_coolers.pdf # # For electrical heating see: # http://www.tycothermal.com/usa/english/heat_tracing/ # note the self regulating technology :) # # ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 14:38:23 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: RE: fsj: Help needed with Italian Grand Wagoneer Luca (and Michel), here is the link to Michael Shimniock's excellent article on v8 vacuum: http://tc.wagoneer.net/sblog/static.php?page=fsj_vac_routing enjoy, john ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- there's a solution for every problem; problem is can we afford the solution? - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Fri, 4 Jan 2008, michel balea wrote: # Happy New Year to our friends accross the pond. # # Luca, very nice grand Wagoneer.... 87 or newer? # # When the weather clears, we can measure the dipstick from tube seal to # bottom... i have a metric measuring tape.... will send w pict. At least it # will clear the oil issue.... Which oil are you using.... 20W50 when the # temperature drops below 12 degrees centigrade, will make the engine crank abit # slowler. In your pictures, it seems like some mountains vegetation from # northern Italy. # # Believe it or not, we are having he biggest storm in Northern California in # the last 10 years or so. The streets are littered w debris. # # As for the performances, I would start on the little things.... the basics: # is timing set properly as per specs, idle mixture and so on.... It seems like # what has been done is changing a lot of parts without really trying to do a # thorough diagnostic...... Basically,, you are the mechanic, or you need to # find someone familiar w american engines from the 70-80's. Our other friends # can help. I think there is another Italian wagoneer's owner in one of the # other lists.... # # I would focus on the engine function: it seems like the accelerator valve is # in need of replacement.... hesitation from startup is a sign, such as running # poor on acceleration... the power valve could be either connected to the # wrong port... and dumping a lot of fuel down the manifold... As John said.... # carefully checking the vacuum routing is key..... check Michael's schematics. # # On the transmission, i would check the oil level first... i can picture and # measure the diptick for the automatic transmission.... then if the oil is # dirty....change the oil and filter.... Some will say no.... but.... this would # be a good check on oil level and fluid quality, and adjusting the bands.... # May be not the easiest to do in Italy.... You need to find someone who # serviced american cars (Chrysler) or british cars: the jaguar rolls and others # used the TH400, so doing the TF727 may not be too far off.... nearby. I was # nearby in October... may be soon. # # I will forward to a french wagoneer owner.. who is in Toulouse..... # # as you said "arreevedertchi" # # Michel # 74wagoneer # 85Grandwagoneer # In San Francisco, and sometimes in Europe # # # > Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 13:07:41 -0800 # > From: john-at-wagoneers.com # > To: stef.dolly-at-chello.nl; abergsk-at-online.no; heinkeltommy-at-hotmail.com; # Antti-Ville.Nauha-at-kemira.com; fsj-at-digest.net; campo-at-midwayadv.com # > Subject: fsj: Help needed with Italian Grand Wagoneer # # > 1) I'm not sure what the problem might be with the engine. I would # > replace all the vacuum lines and make sure they match the diagram # > under the hood, and that all bolts on the intake manifold are # > torqued correctly. Check the spark plug wiring order as well: # > http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/tech/firingorder.html # > # > # > Then, I would run a compression test on the engine cylinders. # > I ran a test on my '89 Grand Wagoneer and got these results: # > Compression test on 360 V8 reads: 135, 140, 130, 130, 130, 120, 135 and 145 # > # > This reading is in PSI - Pounds per Square Inch. I'm not sure what unit # > of measure you would use. I have a shareware tool that will convert # > it into metric, you can download it from: # > http://wagoneers.com/CS/TOOLS/Convert.exe # > # > # > 2) This sounds like the transmission may be failing. The Torqueflite # > 727 is not very long lived. You may need to have it rebuilt. # > # > I would add an external transmission cooler and use Synthetic ATF. # > The transmission does NOT route oil to the cooler when in PARK. # > # > 3) I would recommend joining the FSJ list on digest.net. # > http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/FSJ-list.html # # # > On Fri, 4 Jan 2008, MIDWAYadv wrote: # # # > # I have had some problems to the carburetor and I have # > # practically re-make all the connections from the tank to the motor. # > # I have bought an other carburetor re-conditioned from the # > # teamgrandwagoneer but also it had one problem. # > # I have changed also the distributor Assembly, the ignition coil, the # ignitio # > # module the starter Relay e many others parts but the motor stretches no # good. # > # it is like if the motor it did not work melted, limpid and round. Also # > # when I accelerate it does not go smooth as it would have 8 # > # cylinders of that piston displacement. # > # > See #1 above. # > # > # Strange what happens one... if I put oil in differentiates them to the # > # just level, the motor does not strike par, if then I remove it and I # > # leave the oil to the minimal level the motor goes decidedly better. # > # I believe that the dipstick oil of the level of the oil of # differentiates # > # is not original... but I do not succeed to find of one original. # > # Moreover when the car is cold seems that the D automatic drive or the L # drive # > # slips... is like as the drive without power , it uncouples without # warning # > # then as soon as I raise the number of turns of the motor, # > # without warning is coupled and left again. # > # When the car is warm does not have more this problem. Perhaps then the # oil of # > # the change goes in # > # pressure and all it goes well. In any case I am angry why I would # > # want to use it in easy way and instead these problems they render its # > # use indeed unpleasant. I # > # > See #2 above. # > # > # > # would want that all good went and I would want to resolve all the # problems. # > # We can remain in contact so, you can help me to understand problems and # to # > # indicate to me where i can acquire pieces in America? # > # > See #3 above. # > # > # It would be a very great fortune for me. hello Luca # > # in the next one mail I send the photos to you of the car # > # > # > http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/rigs/Luca-IT-GW/ # > # > # Excuse me for my no good english # > # > Only if you excuse my Italian. :) # > # > arrevadirtchee. :) # > # > john # # _________________________________________________________________ # Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live. # http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008 # ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 16:29:11 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Help needed with Italian Grand Wagoneer (fwd) :) ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- there's a solution for every problem; problem is can we afford the solution? - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: MIDWAYadv Boys you are the top, excellent! I have not never had much fortune in order to have found many persons that they can help me. Now I will have translate yours mail but I will answer and make to see vs. messages to my mechanic. My Grand Wagoneer is 1988. For me is one of the more fascinating cars that never they have been constructed. When I drive, I have all the eyes for me... you understand? I do not know if it will never happen but I live to Rimini (Italy) and job in the near Repubblic of San Marino... and I say you that if you travel in Italy... tell me please. If you have need of some favor from Italy or San Marino not doubted to ask me. excuse me... for now, hello to all and GRAZIE GRAZIE GRAZIE. :-) Luca Il giorno 04/gen/08, alle ore 23:38, john ha scritto: > >Luca (and Michel), > >here is the link to Michael Shimniock's excellent article on v8 vacuum: > > >http://tc.wagoneer.net/sblog/static.php?page=fsj_vac_routing > >enjoy, >john > > > > ----- >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > there's a solution for every problem; > problem is can we afford the solution? >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >On Fri, 4 Jan 2008, michel balea wrote: > > # Happy New Year to our friends accross the pond. > # > # Luca, very nice grand Wagoneer.... 87 or newer? > # > # When the weather clears, we can measure the dipstick from tube seal to > # bottom... i have a metric measuring tape.... will send w pict. At least it > # will clear the oil issue.... Which oil are you using.... 20W50 when the > # temperature drops below 12 degrees centigrade, will make the engine crank > # abit > # slowler. In your pictures, it seems like some mountains vegetation from > # northern Italy. > # > # Believe it or not, we are having he biggest storm in Northern California in > # the last 10 years or so. The streets are littered w debris. > # > # As for the performances, I would start on the little things.... the basics: > # is timing set properly as per specs, idle mixture and so on.... It seems > # like > # what has been done is changing a lot of parts without really trying to do a > # thorough diagnostic...... Basically,, you are the mechanic, or you need to > # find someone familiar w american engines from the 70-80's. Our other friends > # can help. I think there is another Italian wagoneer's owner in one of the > # other lists.... > # > # I would focus on the engine function: it seems like the accelerator valve is > # in need of replacement.... hesitation from startup is a sign, such as > # running > # poor on acceleration... the power valve could be either connected to the > # wrong port... and dumping a lot of fuel down the manifold... As John > # said.... > # carefully checking the vacuum routing is key..... check Michael's > # schematics. > # > # On the transmission, i would check the oil level first... i can picture and > # measure the diptick for the automatic transmission.... then if the oil is > # dirty....change the oil and filter.... Some will say no.... but.... this > # would > # be a good check on oil level and fluid quality, and adjusting the bands.... > # May be not the easiest to do in Italy.... You need to find someone who > # serviced american cars (Chrysler) or british cars: the jaguar rolls and > # others > # used the TH400, so doing the TF727 may not be too far off.... nearby. I was > # nearby in October... may be soon. > # > # I will forward to a french wagoneer owner.. who is in Toulouse..... > # > # as you said "arreevedertchi" > # > # Michel > # 74wagoneer > # 85Grandwagoneer > # In San Francisco, and sometimes in Europe > # > # > # > Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 13:07:41 -0800 > # > From: john-at-wagoneers.com > # > To: stef.dolly-at-chello.nl; abergsk-at-online.no; heinkeltommy-at-hotmail.com; > # Antti-Ville.Nauha-at-kemira.com; fsj-at-digest.net; campo-at-midwayadv.com > #> Subject: fsj: Help needed with Italian Grand Wagoneer > # > # > 1) I'm not sure what the problem might be with the engine. I would > # > replace all the vacuum lines and make sure they match the diagram > # > under the hood, and that all bolts on the intake manifold are > # > torqued correctly. Check the spark plug wiring order as well: > # > http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/tech/firingorder.html > # > > # > > # > Then, I would run a compression test on the engine cylinders. > # > I ran a test on my '89 Grand Wagoneer and got these results: > # > Compression test on 360 V8 reads: 135, 140, 130, 130, 130, 120, 135 and > # > 145 > # > > # > This reading is in PSI - Pounds per Square Inch. I'm not sure what unit > # > of measure you would use. I have a shareware tool that will convert > # > it into metric, you can download it from: > # > http://wagoneers.com/CS/TOOLS/Convert.exe > # > > # > > # > 2) This sounds like the transmission may be failing. The Torqueflite > # > 727 is not very long lived. You may need to have it rebuilt. > # > > # > I would add an external transmission cooler and use Synthetic ATF. > # > The transmission does NOT route oil to the cooler when in PARK. > # > > # > 3) I would recommend joining the FSJ list on digest.net. > #> http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/FSJ-list.html > # > # > # > On Fri, 4 Jan 2008, MIDWAYadv wrote: > # > # > # > # I have had some problems to the carburetor and I have > # > # practically re-make all the connections from the tank to the motor. > # > # I have bought an other carburetor re-conditioned from the > # > # teamgrandwagoneer but also it had one problem. > # > # I have changed also the distributor Assembly, the ignition coil, the > # ignitio > #> # module the starter Relay e many others parts but the motor stretches no > # good. > # > # it is like if the motor it did not work melted, limpid and round. Also > # > # when I accelerate it does not go smooth as it would have 8 > # > # cylinders of that piston displacement. > # > > # > See #1 above. > # > > # > # Strange what happens one... if I put oil in differentiates them to the > # > # just level, the motor does not strike par, if then I remove it and I > # > # leave the oil to the minimal level the motor goes decidedly better. > # > # I believe that the dipstick oil of the level of the oil of > # differentiates > # > # is not original... but I do not succeed to find of one original. > # > # Moreover when the car is cold seems that the D automatic drive or the L > # drive > #> # slips... is like as the drive without power , it uncouples without > # warning > # > # then as soon as I raise the number of turns of the motor, > # > # without warning is coupled and left again. > # > # When the car is warm does not have more this problem. Perhaps then the > # oil of > # > # the change goes in > # > # pressure and all it goes well. In any case I am angry why I would > # > # want to use it in easy way and instead these problems they render its > # > # use indeed unpleasant. I > # > > # > See #2 above. > # > > # > > # > # would want that all good went and I would want to resolve all the > # problems. > #> # We can remain in contact so, you can help me to understand problems and > # to > # > # indicate to me where i can acquire pieces in America? > # > > # > See #3 above. > # > > # > # It would be a very great fortune for me. hello Luca > # > # in the next one mail I send the photos to you of the car > # > > # > > # > http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/rigs/Luca-IT-GW/ > # > > # > # Excuse me for my no good english > # > > # > Only if you excuse my Italian. :) > # > > # > arrevadirtchee. :) > # > > # > john > # > # _________________________________________________________________ > # Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live. > # http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008 > # ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #2982 **************************