From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Mon Jan 28 09:29:21 2008 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Monday, January 28 2008 Volume 01 : Number 2994 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: what are they worth? fsj: Fuel Milage Re: fsj: Fuel Milage Re: fsj: full size jeeps fsj: omega help RE: fsj: omega help RE: fsj: full size jeeps Re: fsj: full size jeeps Re: fsj: full size jeeps RE: fsj: full size jeeps Re: fsj: full size jeeps RE: fsj: full size jeeps Re: fsj: full size jeeps RE: fsj: full size jeeps FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 13:36:41 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: fsj: what are they worth? ok, cleaning up after a few projects: T-5 - was rebuilt by previous owner for $3k, supposedly world class, was working fine when my J10 was dismantled 7 years ago. - don't have the flywheel or clutch setup... appears to have been given away with the original engine... NP208 - ? $350? mated to the T5. 1989 Grand Wagoneer - $1989? - runs well, perfect body, interior fair, needs carpet. Electrax - D44 rear, true trac limited slip with electric locker - $770 new, make offer '75 4.2L/258 rebuilt - $500 (was in a CJ-7 for a couple of years) '96 4.0L - was overheated, long block only - $300 - ----------------- still trying to find time to get my '91 Grand Wagoneer running after 6.2L Diesel conversion, almost there, should have been done last May... very close... ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- there's a solution for every problem; problem is can we afford the solution? - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 19:36:50 -0600 From: Zee Man Subject: fsj: Fuel Milage All, After getting my Cherokee Chief running normal. I went for its first 50 mile high way drive under my owner ship. Anyway this pig burned and leaked about 5 quarts of oil and my milage was like 7 MPG. Anyway my tires are 31's, If i would change to 33's would my milage actually go up? My last Cherokee got about 12 mpg with 29's?(15 yrs ago) and that had a 401 not a 360... So dragging more weight around the axles is it possible my milage will go up? Hope that makes sense Rob 78 Cherokee Chief _________________________________________________________________ Need to know the score, the latest news, or you need your Hotmail.-get your "fix". http://www.msnmobilefix.com/Default.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 19:10:35 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Fuel Milage sounds like you got 10 miles per quart, not bad... ;) this thing sounds like it needs a lot of help. going larger will not help your mileage. going smaller might, but only after you get it running well. john ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- there's a solution for every problem; problem is can we afford the solution? - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Sun, 27 Jan 2008, Zee Man wrote: # All, # After getting my Cherokee Chief running normal. I went for its first 50 mile # high way drive under my owner ship. Anyway this pig burned and leaked about 5 # quarts of oil and my milage was like 7 MPG. Anyway my tires are 31's, If i # would change to 33's would my milage actually go up? My last Cherokee got # about 12 mpg with 29's?(15 yrs ago) and that had a 401 not a 360... So # dragging more weight around the axles is it possible my milage will go up? # # Hope that makes sense # # Rob # 78 Cherokee Chief # _________________________________________________________________ # Need to know the score, the latest news, or you need your Hotmail.-get your # "fix". # http://www.msnmobilefix.com/Default.aspx # ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 21:17:53 CST From: Dan Black Subject: Re: fsj: full size jeeps john said: {- no luck on getting omega running yet... Well, I had slightly better luck today. My '74 has been down for about a year and a half. I tried various schemes to wire in a switch under the dash to hit a relay to disconnect (and reconnect) the battery, so I wouldn't have to keep popping the hood and using one of the dial-type disconnects every time I start and stop. (If I don't disconnect it, it will occasionally drain the battery within a few hours of shutting it off. It's not nearly consistent enough to be able to track down the problem, but randomly draining once every couple weeks isn't an option, either. Ironically, I don't have time to rewire the whole thing, though that's probably the best solution in the end.) Anyway, since nobody has been able to come up with a working relay disconnect scheme (and I tried a lot of configurations), I took advantage of the nice weather today (over 40deg!) and finally went back to the original setup. I apparently got the battery recharged -- it's been stubborn, and I don't know for sure that I won't have to replace it anyway -- and finally got fuel in the system by squirting some down the carb to start it. (Took three or four tries before it stayed running, but then actually worked and ran very smoothly.) After it was running steadily enough to take my foot off the gas, which only took about a minute, I went around to the front to see fuel squirting from the fuel line just in front of the fuel filter. Doh. Let it run a minute more anyway, then shut it off, cut off the bad part, and put it back together. Not leaking now, but those lines are still a bit cracked on the outside, so I'll simply replace all that stuff on top (fuel filter and both hoses attached to it), hopefully tomorrow. And get a new $3 dial-type battery cut-off. (For now, I took manually took the battery cable back off the battery.) I even drove it about half a mile around several blocks of the neighborhood. Yaaay! It didn't even feel like it had been neglected that long; it felt like I might've driven it just yesterday. The '74 has always been good about that -- if you can coax fuel back into the system, it's up and running; no complaints, no hard feelings. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing. -- Emo Philips - -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 19:41:32 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: fsj: omega help got a call from jim blair, had a good idea, use my fuel pump to draw fuel up on top... so went up to schucks and got some fuel line, plugged in my little electric fuel pump and got some fuel flowing through the firewall primary filter... and up to the secondary... kept me from crawling underneath.. but didn't help. my other friend is going to stop by tomorrow, so there is hope... my ear is healing, stitches come out on thursday... :) have school this weekend, but almost done... (with my masters degree)... feb 16th. hoping to have omega ready for a road trip by mid-march... :) john ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- there's a solution for every problem; problem is can we afford the solution? - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 21:06:01 -0800 From: Jim Blair Subject: RE: fsj: omega help you just needed to push it up to the injector pump with the lines loosened and crank it over so the air is forced out of the pump. Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 > Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 19:41:32 -0800 > From: john-at-wagoneers.com > To: fsj-at-digest.net > Subject: fsj: omega help > > got a call from jim blair, had a good idea, use my fuel pump > to draw fuel up on top... so went up > to schucks and got some fuel line, plugged in my little electric > fuel pump and got some fuel flowing through the firewall primary filter... > and up to the secondary... kept me from crawling underneath.. but > didn't help. > > my other friend is going to stop by tomorrow, so there is hope... > > my ear is healing, stitches come out on thursday... :) have school > this weekend, but almost done... (with my masters degree)... feb 16th. > hoping to have omega ready for a road trip by mid-march... :) > > john > > ----- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > there's a solution for every problem; > problem is can we afford the solution? > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- _________________________________________________________________ Climb to the top of the charts! Play the word scramble challenge with star power. http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_wlmailtextlink_jan ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 21:07:39 -0800 From: Jim Blair Subject: RE: fsj: full size jeeps I lay you odds that if you crawled under and unplugged the wiring going into the tailgate at the frame on the driver's side, that batt drain would disappear! Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 > To: fsj-at-digest.net > Subject: Re: fsj: full size jeeps > From: dan-at-black.org > Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 21:17:53 -0600 > > john said: > {- no luck on getting omega running yet... > > Well, I had slightly better luck today. > > My '74 has been down for about a year and a half. I tried various > schemes to wire in a switch under the dash to hit a relay to disconnect > (and reconnect) the battery, so I wouldn't have to keep popping the hood > and using one of the dial-type disconnects every time I start and stop. > > (If I don't disconnect it, it will occasionally drain the battery within > a few hours of shutting it off. It's not nearly consistent enough to be > able to track down the problem, but randomly draining once every couple > weeks isn't an option, either. Ironically, I don't have time to rewire > the whole thing, though that's probably the best solution in the end.) > > Anyway, since nobody has been able to come up with a working relay > disconnect scheme (and I tried a lot of configurations), I took > advantage of the nice weather today (over 40deg!) and finally went back > to the original setup. I apparently got the battery recharged -- it's > been stubborn, and I don't know for sure that I won't have to replace it > anyway -- and finally got fuel in the system by squirting some down the > carb to start it. (Took three or four tries before it stayed running, > but then actually worked and ran very smoothly.) > > After it was running steadily enough to take my foot off the gas, which > only took about a minute, I went around to the front to see fuel > squirting from the fuel line just in front of the fuel filter. Doh. > Let it run a minute more anyway, then shut it off, cut off the bad part, > and put it back together. Not leaking now, but those lines are still a > bit cracked on the outside, so I'll simply replace all that stuff on top > (fuel filter and both hoses attached to it), hopefully tomorrow. And > get a new $3 dial-type battery cut-off. (For now, I took manually took > the battery cable back off the battery.) > > I even drove it about half a mile around several blocks of the > neighborhood. Yaaay! It didn't even feel like it had been neglected > that long; it felt like I might've driven it just yesterday. The '74 > has always been good about that -- if you can coax fuel back into the > system, it's up and running; no complaints, no hard feelings. > > - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- - -- > A computer once beat me at chess, > but it was no match for me at kick boxing. > -- Emo Philips > -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org - -------------- _________________________________________________________________ Climb to the top of the charts! Play the word scramble challenge with star power. http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_wlmailtextlink_jan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 09:12:10 CST From: Dan Black Subject: Re: fsj: full size jeeps Jim Blair said: {- I lay you odds that if you crawled under and unplugged the wiring going into {- the tailgate at the frame on the driver's side, that batt drain would {- disappear! Hmmm, that's not a bad suggestion. Or maybe just replace the wire and hopefully get the gate working? I even have a replacement motor somewhere. The problem, as I mentioned, is that it is nowhere near consistent, so I'd never be really sure it was fixed, and could only be reasonably sure after a couple months of driving it every day with no battery drainage. There are only so many wires on that in the first place... Lights, gate, gauges, tape deck, heat control?, interior lights, wipers, and of course the engine stuff (alternator, starter, etc.). - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Rowlf: Stay away from women. That's my motto. Kermit: But I can't. Rowlf: Neither can I. That's my trouble! - -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 09:48:14 -0700 From: Sam Harris Subject: Re: fsj: full size jeeps Interesting. I have the same trouble with the battery drainage ('80 Wagoneer) .. Are you suggesting it's likely the tailgate, since he's got problems with the tailgate, or because that's a common source of the problem? Thanks! Sam Dan Black wrote: > Jim Blair said: > {- I lay you odds that if you crawled under and unplugged the wiring going into > {- the tailgate at the frame on the driver's side, that batt drain would > {- disappear! > > Hmmm, that's not a bad suggestion. Or maybe just replace the wire and > hopefully get the gate working? I even have a replacement motor > somewhere. > > The problem, as I mentioned, is that it is nowhere near consistent, so > I'd never be really sure it was fixed, and could only be reasonably sure > after a couple months of driving it every day with no battery drainage. > > There are only so many wires on that in the first place... Lights, > gate, gauges, tape deck, heat control?, interior lights, wipers, and of > course the engine stuff (alternator, starter, etc.). > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Rowlf: Stay away from women. That's my motto. > Kermit: But I can't. > Rowlf: Neither can I. That's my trouble! > -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 09:11:26 -0800 From: Jim Blair Subject: RE: fsj: full size jeeps It's pretty common for the harness that goes into the tailgate to short right where it goes into the door. Because it's such a heavy harness, the battery usually gets drained before the wires totally melt or a fire starts. I discovered it on my '83 Cherokee by accident when I went to put the manual crank in place of the missing electric motor. Written laws are like spiders' webs, and will like them only Entangle and hold the poor and weak, while the rich and powerful will easily break through them ANACHARSIS Scythian philosopher (fl. 600 BC) > Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 09:48:14 -0700 > From: Sam.Harris-at-Sun.COM > Subject: Re: fsj: full size jeeps > To: dan-at-black.org > CC: fsj-at-digest.net > > Interesting. > > I have the same trouble with the battery drainage ('80 Wagoneer) .. Are > you suggesting it's likely the tailgate, since he's got problems with > the tailgate, or because that's a common source of the problem? > > Thanks! > > Sam > > _________________________________________________________________ Need to know the score, the latest news, or you need your Hotmail.-get your "fix". http://www.msnmobilefix.com/Default.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 09:15:16 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: full size jeeps my '89 has a dome light issue that keeps me from leaving the battery connected. jim will have to do more to explain this tailgate thing as it doesn't make sense... is it a pinched wire that allows current to flow into the motor? then why wouldn't it chatter? my mercedes had a short in the wiring harness that kept the trunk light on... would drain the battery every now and then... not consistently... ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- there's a solution for every problem; problem is can we afford the solution? - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Mon, 28 Jan 2008, Sam Harris wrote: # Interesting. # # I have the same trouble with the battery drainage ('80 Wagoneer) .. Are you # suggesting it's likely the tailgate, since he's got problems with the # tailgate, or because that's a common source of the problem? # # Thanks! # # Sam # # Dan Black wrote: # > Jim Blair said: # > {- I lay you odds that if you crawled under and unplugged the wiring going # > into # > {- the tailgate at the frame on the driver's side, that batt drain would # > {- disappear! # > # > Hmmm, that's not a bad suggestion. Or maybe just replace the wire and # > hopefully get the gate working? I even have a replacement motor # > somewhere. # > # > The problem, as I mentioned, is that it is nowhere near consistent, so # > I'd never be really sure it was fixed, and could only be reasonably sure # > after a couple months of driving it every day with no battery drainage. # > # > There are only so many wires on that in the first place... Lights, # > gate, gauges, tape deck, heat control?, interior lights, wipers, and of # > course the engine stuff (alternator, starter, etc.). # > # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- # > Rowlf: Stay away from women. That's my motto. # > Kermit: But I can't. # > Rowlf: Neither can I. That's my trouble! # > -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org # > -------------- # ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 09:18:19 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: RE: fsj: full size jeeps that doesn't make sense, a dead short will cause a fusible link to go, insulation to melt, etc. for a battery to drain it has to be through a load of some kind, like possibly through the motor with it in a stopped position... hard to say... just another reason to redesign the tailgate setup on these things. :) ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- there's a solution for every problem; problem is can we afford the solution? - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Mon, 28 Jan 2008, Jim Blair wrote: # It's pretty common for the harness that goes into the tailgate to short right # where it goes into the door. Because it's such a heavy harness, the battery # usually gets drained before the wires totally melt or a fire starts. I # discovered it on my '83 Cherokee by accident when I went to put the manual # crank in place of the missing electric motor. # # Written laws are like spiders' webs, and will # # like them only Entangle and # hold the poor and # # weak, while the rich and powerful will easily # # break # through them # # # # ANACHARSIS Scythian philosopher (fl. 600 BC) # # > Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 09:48:14 -0700 # > From: Sam.Harris-at-Sun.COM # > Subject: Re: fsj: full size jeeps # > To: dan-at-black.org # > CC: fsj-at-digest.net # > # > Interesting. # > # > I have the same trouble with the battery drainage ('80 Wagoneer) .. Are # > you suggesting it's likely the tailgate, since he's got problems with # > the tailgate, or because that's a common source of the problem? # > # > Thanks! # > # > Sam # > # > # # _________________________________________________________________ # Need to know the score, the latest news, or you need your Hotmail.-get your # "fix". # http://www.msnmobilefix.com/Default.aspx # ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 09:17:45 -0800 From: Kevin Subject: Re: fsj: full size jeeps Or have one with a manual crank. On Mon, Jan 28, 2008 at 09:18:19AM -0800, john wrote: > that doesn't make sense, a dead short will cause a fusible link > to go, insulation to melt, etc. for a battery to drain it has > to be through a load of some kind, like possibly through the motor > with it in a stopped position... hard to say... > > just another reason to redesign the tailgate setup on these things. :) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 09:27:22 -0800 From: Jim Blair Subject: RE: fsj: full size jeeps That's the problem. The wiring to the tailgate didn't come with a fusible link. Either that, or it's too high to pop under a partial short. Written laws are like spiders' webs, and will like them only Entangle and hold the poor and weak, while the rich and powerful will easily break through them ANACHARSIS Scythian philosopher (fl. 600 BC) > Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 09:18:19 -0800 > From: john-at-wagoneers.com > To: carnuck1-at-msn.com > CC: sam.harris-at-sun.com; fsj-at-digest.net > Subject: RE: fsj: full size jeeps > > that doesn't make sense, a dead short will cause a fusible link > to go, insulation to melt, etc. for a battery to drain it has > to be through a load of some kind, like possibly through the motor > with it in a stopped position... hard to say... > > just another reason to redesign the tailgate setup on these things. :) > > ----- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > there's a solution for every problem; > problem is can we afford the solution? > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > On Mon, 28 Jan 2008, Jim Blair wrote: > > # It's pretty common for the harness that goes into the tailgate to short right > # where it goes into the door. Because it's such a heavy harness, the battery > # usually gets drained before the wires totally melt or a fire starts. I > # discovered it on my '83 Cherokee by accident when I went to put the manual > # crank in place of the missing electric motor. > # > # Written laws are like spiders' webs, and will > # > # like them only Entangle and > # hold the poor and > # > # weak, while the rich and powerful will easily > # > # break > # through them > # > # > # > # ANACHARSIS Scythian philosopher (fl. 600 BC) > # > # > Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 09:48:14 -0700 > # > From: Sam.Harris-at-Sun.COM > # > Subject: Re: fsj: full size jeeps > # > To: dan-at-black.org > # > CC: fsj-at-digest.net > # > > # > Interesting. > # > > # > I have the same trouble with the battery drainage ('80 Wagoneer) .. Are > # > you suggesting it's likely the tailgate, since he's got problems with > # > the tailgate, or because that's a common source of the problem? > # > > # > Thanks! > # > > # > Sam > # > > # > > # > # _________________________________________________________________ > # Need to know the score, the latest news, or you need your Hotmail.-get your > # "fix". > # http://www.msnmobilefix.com/Default.aspx > # _________________________________________________________________ Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant messaging. You IM, we give. http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=text_hotmail_join ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #2994 **************************