From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Fri Feb 29 16:39:05 2008 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Saturday, March 1 2008 Volume 01 : Number 3021 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: RE: fsj: anyone have a spare stock 2v 360 carb? RE: fsj: the failed emissions test report - 89 GW (and Diesel info) fsj: Re: [db] the failed emissions test report - 89 GW (and Diesel info) fsj: how many years? Re: fsj: anyone have a spare stock 2v 360 carb? RE: fsj: anyone have a spare stock 2v 360 carb? fsj: Who's going to the Moonshiner's swapmeet next sunday? (Wa State in Puyallup) fsj: 91 Cherokee larado FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 10:15:03 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: RE: fsj: anyone have a spare stock 2v 360 carb? gas cap passed the test. not sure about egr... timing could very well be off... when jim blair and I did the compression test we found most of the spark plugs finger tight. the alleged mechanic that the PO used was apparently and utterly incompetent... as a result of the loose plugs my theory is that the middle cylinder on the pass side misfired, causing unburned gas to end up in the exhaust manifold... then exploded... popcorning the exhaust manifold and causing this "mechanic" to declare the engine bad, causing the PO to got out and buy a new minivan, causing the GW to sit under a tree with the sunroof open for a couple of years... but I digress... :) blown power valve might be the case... let's see what the experts say after reviewing the details I provided. john ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Thu, 28 Feb 2008, michel balea wrote: # # # # Give us the numbers..... # # 1) not warm enough.... 5-10 miles on the freeway, let it idle at the test center in neutral not to heat up the trany, parking brakes on.... even if you have to wait 5 minutes.... and before giving it away, high idle for 20-30 seconds. # # 2) gas cap defective # # 3) blown power valve (if it has bad idle) # # 4) EGR CTO not working # # 5) timing is off (hard to start) # # 6) misfiring due to defective coil wires, but i am sure you have the best wires.... # # I was never convinced of the oil change.... the HC test is based on hexane, the 85 GW passed w flying color and it is burning 1Q / 200 miles (valves seals) and big puff of smoke when parked nose down. My oil was 6 months old. # # Michel # # # > Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 07:50:21 -0800 # > From: john-at-wagoneers.com # > To: carnuck-at-hotmail.com # > CC: fsj-at-digest.net # > Subject: RE: fsj: anyone have a spare stock 2v 360 carb? # > # > the plugs were good, but no... my son didn't do anything... # > # > I haven't seen the numbers yet either, but it starts hard, # > idles poorly and I've already gone through the vacuum stuff... # > # > john # > # > ----- # > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** # > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # > # > # > On Thu, 28 Feb 2008, Jim Blair wrote: # > # > # I'll wait to see the numbers before calling it a bad carb. # > # Did you change plugs and do an oil change right before taking it in? # > # # > # Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 # > # # > # # > # > Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 07:44:31 -0800 # > # > From: john-at-wagoneers.com # > # > To: fsj-at-digest.net # > # > CC: diesel-benz-at-digest.net # > # > Subject: fsj: anyone have a spare stock 2v 360 carb? # > # > # > # > we took the '89 GW to get emissions tested, it failed # > # > at idle... suspect the carb... haven't seen the specs yet... # > # > # > # > I've always suspected that this carb needs attention... # > # > # > # > my son has decided he wants to get a Mercedes Diesel # > # > for commuting to school, so we're selling the '89 GW... # > # > of course it'll sell easier if it passes emissions. :) # > # > # > # > john # > # > # > # > ----- # > # > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # > # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > # > http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** # > # > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # > # # > # _________________________________________________________________ # > # Shed those extra pounds with MSN and The Biggest Loser! # > # http://biggestloser.msn.com/ # # _________________________________________________________________ # Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant messaging. You IM, we give. # http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=text_hotmail_join ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 10:23:47 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: RE: fsj: the failed emissions test report - 89 GW (and Diesel info) so, rebuild or swap the carb? 2nd opinions? nice work Michel. :) Michel is in the lead at Ouray, that's his blue FSJ: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Ouray2002/Aug15-john-Ouray-day1/FSJs/heading-out-fs js.jpg and I know that Michel knows his carb's, here's proof: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Ouray2002/Aug14-john-day4/normal-behavior-in-ouray.j pg can't find the picture of you in coveralls in front of your jeep... :) john ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Thu, 28 Feb 2008, michel balea wrote: # # # Power valve not connected or blown, high HC and high CO are a match for the idle, the O2 is good(not larger than 4 or lower than 1), the idle rpm is a tad low (TSM specs, but you can go to 750 for the test, max is 1000rpm to pass)... higher idle helps to boost clean combustion. # # when you disco the power hose.... if gas is dribbling from it... you know it is blown. # # No NO test? # # off to get that EOS... the local GM has it. # # Michel # # > Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 09:10:01 -0800 # > From: john-at-wagoneers.com # > To: jonkessler-at-hotmail.com; inisadow-at-hotmail.com; fsj-at-digest.net; carnuck1-at-msn.com; DZAshby-at-verizon.net; carnuck-at-hotmail.com # > CC: dieseljohn-at-comcast.net; xj-at-digest.net; diesel-benz-at-digest.net # > Subject: fsj: the failed emissions test report - 89 GW (and Diesel info) # > # > It looks as though the problem is only at idle. # > # > HC (ppm)CO(%) CO+CO2(%)O2(%) RPM # > Idle Limit 220 1.2 6 n/a n/a # > Idle Emissions 360 1.96 14.06 2.97 610 # > Idle Result FAIL FAIL n/a n/a n/a # > # > This doesn't look that bad to me... my first run with Old Blue # > was much worse if I remember correctly... We have NOT changed # > the plugs or the oil on this Jeep and it may even have gas that's # > years old too. We get one free retest, then spend another $15 # > after that. Plugs and oil change, adjust the carb idle jets # > and set the timing??? Thoughts? # > # > # > Here's a link to the report on line: # > # > http://www.emissiontestwa.com/TestRecord.aspx?VIN=1J4GS5877KP104156&TSDT=2/27 /2008%2012:28:33%20PM # > # > Info on the test: # > http://apps.leg.wa.gov/WAC/default.aspx?cite=173-422-060 # > I don't think a 4wd vehicle can do this test(dynameter): # > http://apps.leg.wa.gov/WAC/default.aspx?cite=173-422-070 # > # > # > Summary of all results below: # > -------------------------------- # > 1989 Grand Wagoneer: 360V8/Automatic/test weight 4750/ TEST TYPE: ASM # > HC (ppm)CO(%) CO+CO2(%)O2(%) RPM # > Cruise Limit 200 1.5 6 n/a n/a # > Cruise Emissions 82 0.95 14.55 1.83 n/a # > Cruise Results PASS PASS n/a n/a n/a # > # > Idle Limit 220 1.2 6 n/a n/a # > Idle Emissions 360 1.96 14.06 2.97 610 # > Idle Result FAIL FAIL n/a n/a n/a # > ------------------------------------------------------------------- # > # > DIESEL TEST INFO HERE: # > http://apps.leg.wa.gov/WAC/default.aspx?cite=173-422-075 # > # > # > # > ----- # > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** # > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # # _________________________________________________________________ # Need to know the score, the latest news, or you need your Hotmail.-get your "fix". # http://www.msnmobilefix.com/Default.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 13:14:40 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: [db] the failed emissions test report - 89 GW (and Diesel info) jason, this is seattle... we spend a lot of time idling because our government hasn't spent money on roads. :) ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Thu, 28 Feb 2008, jasonbassett-at-juno.com wrote: # Just lean out the idle and you should be fine. It looks like it's just idling # too rich. It's a common problem on older vehicles. Incidentally, it's a highly # irrelevant one, too, because its life is not spent mostly idling, but mostly # going. # # Just another way the idiots in government control our behavior. They want it # to become increasingly difficult to have an older vehicle, because they use # too much gas. So we lose more freedom "for the enVIronment." That's what the # environmental movement is; a front for the communists. # # J # # -- john wrote: # It looks as though the problem is only at idle. # # HC (ppm)CO(%) CO+CO2(%)O2(%) RPM # Idle Limit 220 1.2 6 n/a n/a # Idle Emissions 360 1.96 14.06 2.97 610 # Idle Result FAIL FAIL n/a n/a n/a # # This doesn't look that bad to me... my first run with Old Blue # was much worse if I remember correctly... We have NOT changed # the plugs or the oil on this Jeep and it may even have gas that's # years old too. We get one free retest, then spend another $15 # after that. Plugs and oil change, adjust the carb idle jets # and set the timing??? Thoughts? # # # Here's a link to the report on line: # # http://www.emissiontestwa.com/TestRecord.aspx?VIN=1J4GS5877KP104156&TSDT=2/27 # /2008%2012:28:33%20PM # # Info on the test: # http://apps.leg.wa.gov/WAC/default.aspx?cite=173-422-060 # I don't think a 4wd vehicle can do this test(dynameter): # http://apps.leg.wa.gov/WAC/default.aspx?cite=173-422-070 # # # Summary of all results below: # -------------------------------- # 1989 Grand Wagoneer: 360V8/Automatic/test weight 4750/ TEST TYPE: ASM # HC (ppm)CO(%) CO+CO2(%)O2(%) RPM # Cruise Limit 200 1.5 6 n/a n/a # Cruise Emissions 82 0.95 14.55 1.83 n/a # Cruise Results PASS PASS n/a n/a n/a # # Idle Limit 220 1.2 6 n/a n/a # Idle Emissions 360 1.96 14.06 2.97 610 # Idle Result FAIL FAIL n/a n/a n/a # ------------------------------------------------------------------- # # DIESEL TEST INFO HERE: # http://apps.leg.wa.gov/WAC/default.aspx?cite=173-422-075 # # # # ----- # ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** # ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 15:01:22 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: fsj: how many years? just wondering... how many years before the ML320 CDI will be affordable? :) http://www.mbusa.com/models/main.do?modelCode=ML320CDI special offer, only $45K +taxes, etc. I don't know, I'm getting old, but my first two houses didn't cost that much... Anyone heard how they're doing with quality on the latest models? So, I need to make Omega (my '91 Grand Wagoneer) nice enough to last long enough for the depreciation on the ML 320 CDI to intersect with my budget, and hopefully that will happen BEFORE it lands in the parts yard. ;) john ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 23:55:50 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: anyone have a spare stock 2v 360 carb? excellent, we'll give that a try, thanx! ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Thu, 28 Feb 2008, Jon Kessler wrote: # # No on the powervalve, if that was the case the CO would be off the scale on # both the idle and cruse. My bet would be that the timing is too advanced, # the fail is not by too much. The idle mixture is about a 1/4 turn too rich # as well.. # # # # ----- Original Message ----- # From: "john" # To: "Greg Loxtercamp" # Cc: ; "Jon Kessler" ; "Blair, # Jim -- Jim Blair" ; "Jim Blair" # Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 11:02 AM # Subject: Re: fsj: anyone have a spare stock 2v 360 carb? # # # > let me see what my son, jim blair and my mechanic friend say... # > will know by this afternoon... # > # > john # > # > ----- # > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** # > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # > # > # > On Thu, 28 Feb 2008, Greg Loxtercamp wrote: # > # > # It probably is the one from Old Blue. So, New Blue could have the carb # > from Old Blue...too cool... # > # # > # I'm out of town starting tonight, so I wouldn't be able to send them off # > till next week...if you want them. # > # # > # All, if John doesn't want them, they are open to the group. Or, if you # > want one of the 4v's let me know. The Edelbrock is in pieces, but comes # > with some kind of kit...maybe a choke kit...maybe a rebuild kit. The Qjet # > worked when removed. # > # # > # Greg # > # # > # ----- Original Message ---- # > # From: john # > # To: Greg Loxtercamp # > # Cc: full size jeep list # > # Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 10:42:23 AM # > # Subject: Re: fsj: anyone have a spare stock 2v 360 carb? # > # # > # sounds like a good deal to me... but let me see if Jim # > # Blair or my other wrench friend can work magic once they see the # > numbers... # > # I swiped the report out of the glovebox on my way out... :) # > # # > # will post details separately for clarity. # > # # > # if that's the carb I'm thinking of it's the original one from Old Blue # > # that was rebuilt and dialed in... forgot all about that one... is # > # the edelbrock the 1406? love those carbs... my son put one he rescued # > # out of the wrecking yard on his Ford 460... amazing, it's only what, a # > 600cfm # > # and it doesn't seem to hold that 460 back at all. ;) # > # # > # john # > # # > # ----- # > # ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # > # Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > # http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** # > # ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # > # # > # # > # On Thu, 28 Feb 2008, Greg Loxtercamp wrote: # > # # > # # John, I've got one. But if you take it, you have to take Fred # > Fitzgerald's old Qjet and Brad Seevers's old Edelbrock 4v. I don't think # > I'll need these anymore. I think the 2v actually came from you. I picked # > it up at Fred's house when he was getting rid of stuff. It was attached # > to the intake manifold, which long ago went to the salvage yard. Pay for # > the shipping and it's yours. # > # # # > # # Greg # > # # # > # # ----- Original Message ---- # > # # From: john # > # # To: full size jeep list # > # # Cc: diesel-benz list # > # # Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 9:44:31 AM # > # # Subject: fsj: anyone have a spare stock 2v 360 carb? # > # # # > # # we took the '89 GW to get emissions tested, it failed # > # # at idle... suspect the carb... haven't seen the specs yet... # > # # # > # # I've always suspected that this carb needs attention... # > # # # > # # my son has decided he wants to get a Mercedes Diesel # > # # for commuting to school, so we're selling the '89 GW... # > # # of course it'll sell easier if it passes emissions. :) # > # # # > # # john # > # # # > # # ----- # > # # > # ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # > # # Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > # # http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** # > # # > # ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # > # # # > # # # > # # # > # # # > # # > # # > # # > # # > # # ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 00:04:00 -0800 From: Jim Blair Subject: RE: fsj: anyone have a spare stock 2v 360 carb? Yup. Timing too far ahead (causing slight misfire and high HC as well as hard cranking), old plugs, old oil (raw gas vapors go into the carb through the PCV system and can cause etest failure) I wonder what the coil output is? Earlier ones benefit from the TFI swap. > Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 23:55:50 -0800 > From: john-at-wagoneers.com > To: jonkessler-at-hotmail.com > CC: fsj-at-digest.net; inisadow-at-hotmail.com > Subject: Re: fsj: anyone have a spare stock 2v 360 carb? > > excellent, we'll give that a try, > thanx! > > ----- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > _________________________________________________________________ Need to know the score, the latest news, or you need your Hotmail.-get your "fix". http://www.msnmobilefix.com/Default.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 07:38:03 -0800 From: Jim Blair Subject: fsj: Who's going to the Moonshiner's swapmeet next sunday? (Wa State in Puyallup) http://www.moonshinersjeepclub.com/swapmeet/swapmeet.htm 9AM to 4 pm sunday only. Won't be selling this year (my 5 ton is still snowed in so there is no way it'll be ready till the May swap meet in Monroe, WA) _________________________________________________________________ Climb to the top of the charts! Play the word scramble challenge with star power. http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_wlmailtextlink_jan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 19:33:51 EST From: Moontanman-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: 91 Cherokee larado I just bought a 91 Cherokee Laredo, just days after purchase the electric door locks the power seats and other associated items stopped working. I replaced the fuses recommended by the owners manual but still no locks or seats. Parking lights seem to be gone as well and my anti lock brakes don't work even though I replaced the recommended fuses as per the owners manual. Any ideas? Oh yeah I was at the jeep dealer ship the other day and saw a $50,000 four door Rubicon wrangler! Oh where is publishers clearing house when you need them! Michael Hissom aurea mediocritas **************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living. (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/ 2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598) ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #3021 **************************