From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Wed Mar 26 13:44:45 2008 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Wednesday, March 26 2008 Volume 01 : Number 3037 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: fsj: Transmission Acting funny Turbo 400 RE: fsj: Transmission Acting funny Turbo 400 RE: fsj: Transmission Acting funny Turbo 400 fsj: batteries fsj: RE: battery rethink... Plan B. :) fsj: Re: [db] RE: battery rethink... Plan B. :) fsj: batteries, plan C? FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 15:16:54 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Transmission Acting funny Turbo 400 did you change torque converters during the swap? no idea other than that... jim blair will certainly have some ideas, just a hunch... :) john ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Mon, 24 Mar 2008, Zee Man wrote: # Gurus, # # # I had a 360 originally in cherokee. i always thought it was shifting alittle # early and really wanted to reprogram the shift points.. Anyway i swapped in a # 401 and now the thing is acting as if it has a mild stall convertor and my # wshift points are a hair high for a cherokee. i want to say it shifts outta # first above 15 mph under no load. also when i let off the gas at speed it # goes down to idle till i step on the gas again.. My fluid level is fine, i # blew out with compressed air my transmission lines during the install... # anyway i would like to lower my shift points about 500 rpm or so from what # they aree now... Any Ideas # # # Bob # # 1978 Cherokee Chief AUTO # _________________________________________________________________ # In a rush? Get real-time answers with Windows Live Messenger. # http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_ # realtime_042008 # ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 16:52:34 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: RE: fsj: Transmission Acting funny Turbo 400 you might check vacuum lines as well and any linkages. I'm guessing there is a difference in converters. ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Mon, 24 Mar 2008, Zee Man wrote: # # the weird thing is no i didnt.. and it is definately acting like a stall. It is crazy. Back in the day i toasted a 727 because i didnt stab the convertor correctly... it worked out the driveway and quit... I already put 60 miles on this one and it drives great minus a hair too high shifts points and my fuel delivery problem... I would assume the torque convertors would be the same for a 360 and a 401. All i know is its definately a night and day difference. i may hit my manual up and look for a band adjustment,, something to tone it down a hair.. # # # I also dropped the tank again, blew out all the lines, the sending unit performed the TSB on the fuel gauge, put it back together and i still have the same symptoms(bad fuel delivery).. I have a Carter HP pump to install toi see if it makes any difference. IF no i guess it could be the carb or the ignition modele.. I may need new wires from the distributor the module.. Maybe its a resistance thing... or maybe my coil connection.etc.. hopefully it will end eventually lol... # # Thanks for the help # bob> Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 15:16:54 -0700> From: john-at-wagoneers.com> To: z_man401-at-hotmail.com> CC: fsj-digest-at-digest.net> Subject: Re: fsj: Transmission Acting funny Turbo 400> > did you change torque converters during the swap?> > no idea other than that... jim blair will certainly have some ideas,> just a hunch... :)> > john> > > -----> - ----------------------------------------------------------------------> Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold> http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com **> - ----------------------------------------------------------------------> > > On Mon, 24 Mar 2008, Zee Man wrote:> > # Gurus,> # > # > # I had a 360 originally in cherokee. i always thought it was shifting alittle> # early and really wanted to reprogram the shift points.. Anyway i swapped in a> # 401 and now the thing is acting as if it has a mild stall convertor and my> # wshift points are a hair high for a cherokee. i want to say it shifts outta> # first above 15 mph under no load. also when i let off the gas at speed it> # goes down to idle till i step on the gas again.. My fluid level is fine, i> # blew out with compressed air my transmission lines during the install...> # anyway i would like to lower my shift points about 500 rpm or so from what> # they aree now... Any Ideas> # > # > # Bob> # > # 1978 Cherokee Chief AUTO> # _________________________________________________________________> # In a rush? Get real-time answers with Windows Live Messenger.> # http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_> # realtime_042008> # # _________________________________________________________________ # Watch "Cause Effect," a show about real people making a real difference. Learn more. # http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/MTV/?source=text_watchcause ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 20:39:40 -0700 From: Jim Blair Subject: RE: fsj: Transmission Acting funny Turbo 400 The 401 has more torque than the 360 and it is possible to bend the vanes in the converter if you do a brake stand with the 401 (Done did it. Whur's my sign? ) Make sure the cooling line didn't rupture into the rad when you pressure cleaned it with air. (It'll be all nasty gooey looking when you take the cap off) No anti-freeze getting back into the trans oil? (foamy red/green fluid) If nothing else, then it sounds like the vacuum hose to the modulator valve (smallish mushroom looking thing on the passenger's side of the trans near the front of the pan) is off causing shift and running problems (vacuum leak), or the modulator got bent (causing weird shift issues and possibly dumping ATF into the intake) There is also a wire on the driver's side of the trans that hooks to the switch on the gas pedal (electric kickdown for passing gear) that will cause the free wheel feeling if it's stuck. If it needs a new mod valve, get one that is adjustable so you can dial in the shift points. Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 > From: z_man401-at-hotmail.com > To: fsj-digest-at-digest.net > Subject: fsj: Transmission Acting funny Turbo 400 > Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 16:46:59 -0500 > > Gurus, > > > I had a 360 originally in cherokee. i always thought it was shifting alittle > early and really wanted to reprogram the shift points.. Anyway i swapped in a > 401 and now the thing is acting as if it has a mild stall convertor and my > wshift points are a hair high for a cherokee. i want to say it shifts outta > first above 15 mph under no load. also when i let off the gas at speed it > goes down to idle till i step on the gas again.. My fluid level is fine, i > blew out with compressed air my transmission lines during the install... > anyway i would like to lower my shift points about 500 rpm or so from what > they aree now... Any Ideas > > > Bob > > 1978 Cherokee Chief AUTO > _________________________________________________________________ > In a rush? Get real-time answers with Windows Live Messenger. > http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_ > realtime_042008 _________________________________________________________________ In a rush? Get real-time answers with Windows Live Messenger. http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_ realtime_042008 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 22:02:22 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: batteries what's the largest battery I could fit in about 24" long, by say 10" by 8" :) Rather than having two batteries with about 700CCA each, why not one that's 1400 CCA? :) would simplify this project a bit... :) john ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 23:27:28 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: RE: battery rethink... Plan B. :) re: 6.2L Diesel into '91 Grand Wagoneer... still trying to get the fuel system working properly and the excessive cranking etc and a bad 200A manual starter/charger caused a battery to explode http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2008/03-Mar-22-SnowGeese-battery-mtns-spring/6.2L-Battery-Injectors/ALL.html Plan B... rather than trying to mount TWO batteries under the jeep... I found that a commercial 4D or 8D will fit on the passenger side... about 20" long, 8 to 11" wide, and about 10" tall, about the same as the two MPT-91 european style top posts I have. I'm not sure what the original requirements were for the 6.2L Diesel, something like 500CCA for each stock battery. So if I go with 1100 CCA in one large battery close to the starter I should be ok. I am going to mount my gel cell under the hood and use it for my driving lights/headlights... I'll run the glow plugs off of it as well. This will give me extra reserve for cranking if needed. Will setup an isolator and the gel cell in about the stock location, will cut the inner passenger fender and recess the gel cell or suspend it so it clears the air muffler and front tire. (with 3" of body lift and 2 to 3 inches of spring lift with only 235's clearance won't be a problem) the only minor issue is that a 4D or 8D will weigh about 100 to 120lbs. the stock batteries are in the 35 to 40lb range each for about 80lbs, but if you factor in the overbuilt battery shelves made out of heavy gauge metal that adds about twenty pounds or so. I'll use one of the brackets and modify it to hold a longer battery... will add a bracket on the bottom of the frame to support the weight in addition. one set of heavy cables going to the starter, two lighter cables going to the glow plugs and so on from the gel cell. Did this same setup on my '85 Cherokee XJ TD and it worked out well. here's the most likely battery: Workaholic - 1000 CCA (4D-XHD) Home > Product Search: 1200 CCA > SPECIFICATIONS Weight: 101.10 pounds Length: 20.75 inches Width: 8.25 inches Height: 9.63 inches Cranking Amps: 1250 Cold Cranking Amps: 1000 Voltage: 12 I like the idea of isolating the battery from vibration as David suggested... a link to the search. http://www.interstatebatteries.com/estore/search.asp?details=1&mscssid=1SQSK7KJ1X399LXLAPLTBGLEEJ6J8T3D&Ns=product+Type%7C0%7C%7CRank%7C1&Ntt=1200+CCA&N=0&Dx=mode+matchallany&part_number=4D%2DXHD&Nty=0&Nao=50&D=1200+CCA&Nu=Part+Number&Ntx=mode+matchallany&part_desc=Workaholic+%2D+1000+CCA&searchtype=Y&Ntk=SearchGroup&js=1 a site that had the major groupings of batteries. http://electrobattery.com/commercial.htm BTW, I took the 200A starter/manual charger back to pep boys and got the more expensive 120A AUTOMATIC charger so I don't pop any more batteries... I think that the 200A failed trying to keep the 6.2L cranking, we smelled fried electrics in that thing... glad the weather is getting nicer and the days longer... was out wrenching until 10pm. :) I may be able to resume cranking tomorrow night... the idea of one battery came to me while laying under the jeep tonight... some of my best thinking happens there... :) john http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2008/03-Mar-22-SnowGeese-battery-mtns-spring/6.2L-Battery-Injectors/ALL.html ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Mon, 24 Mar 2008, David Ashby wrote: # You might want to put the batteries on some sort of thin rubber/elastomer # pad (1/4" or less) to absorb some of the vibration to make these last even a # bit longer. Yes I know you are going to a gel-cell but even that can't # appreciate the vibrations of the frame rail very well. Pieces of an inner # tube work well for a few years. # # Dave # ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 07:53:04 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: [db] RE: battery rethink... Plan B. :) I was thinking about a solar charger, at least for the gel cell as it will be behind an isolator. ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Tue, 25 Mar 2008, Jerry Kaidor wrote: # While you're thinking about battery installations, how about keeping them # healthy? I found a desulfator kit in the Trade-a-plane for $22 plus # shipping. www.barkeraircraft.com. At that price, it's not worth my # time # to scrounge the parts myself.... I ordered one, put it together, haven't # tried it out yet. # # I'm thinking of sticking one in each of my airport cars. Only thing is, # they must put out copious amounts of RF, which might be noticed on a # continuous basis. So I'd like to add a PIC controller to make it # turn on maybe an hour a day. And also have it unconditionally off when # the car is in use. The thing uses a 555, and there is provision for an # on-off switch that essentially shorts the threshold pin to the trigger # pin. # # - Jerry Kaidor # # # # # ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 13:43:39 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: batteries, plan C? ok... the guy at interstate battery talked me out of the 4d or 8d truck battery. he has a sale on group 31s, bunch of blems for $38 each... a great buy, problem is the custom tray I have won't hold a 13" long battery, and I'd have to lower it below the frame rail to fit the height... I can build a shield/skid plate for the batteries if they're no lower than the frame. Interstate in Everett has been a great source of info and parts! So, the current frankenstein plan is to (subject to change without notice): - move the driver's side battery tray to the passenger side (tandem setup) - move the passenger's side battery tray back to allow a nerf bar mount - continue cleaning up the acid damage and protect area with rust converter and bed liner - install a stock battery tray under the hood (anyone have one I can borrow/buy or have donated?) the stock tray was removed and it's probably in centralia with the rest of my parts. :) will either eliminate or modify the air intake muffler, that's the next major redesign... dual ram air setup.... :) (step one, get it running... step two comes later) - in the stock tray will put my 800 CCA Optima gel cell off of a 95A isolater, it will run the glow plugs and all lights and accessories. This will allow for cold weather starting confidence and provide a dual system for failover... (not sure why, but I just have to design for failure modes... ;) - in the two trays on the frame rail, pass side, the batteries will ONLY power the starter. - each of the MPT-91, european recessed top post, has about 700 CCA: Group Size Interstate Type CCA1 CA/ MCA2 RC3 (Min.) Warranty (Months) Dimensions (inches) L x W x H Posts 91 (48) MTP-91 700 875 120 85 11-3/8 x 6-7/8 x 7-1/5 - will connect a ground to the battery tray bracket/frame, will run another cable from there to the engine by the starter, may provide a connection between the two trays as well, this will ensure minimal resistance and full current capability from batteries to starter - on the positive cable from the back battery I will run it to the top post of the forward battery and then run one large cable directly to the starter. - the 95A isolater will sit on the pass side inner fender... I'm thinking about adding a relay to bypass the isolator and connect the alternator and both sets of batteries together for "jump starting" purposes... of course it'll be easy enough to have a jumper wire available to connect all three terminals in the event of failure... (wonder if the gel cell and the mpt-91s will all charge properly if connected together???) - will connect a ground cable from frame to front fender/body on both sides. So, at this point I need some hardware, a few cables and a battery tray... A few have commented about the name Omega... trust me, this is my LAST full size Jeep project, well, except for superdawg if he doesn't move to Australia. ;) the next project will likely be an XJ with a Mercedes Diesel... or something along those lines... I may just buy something already running as a 4x4 Diesel and call it good... ya just never know... :) john ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #3037 **************************