From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Fri Apr 11 18:21:56 2008 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Saturday, April 12 2008 Volume 01 : Number 3052 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: wait a minute - seats Re: fsj: Re: mixing seats fsj: Re: wait a minute - seats Re: fsj: Re: mixing seats fsj: shocks fsj: Re: birds, deer (and jeeps) fsj: GPS options fsj: front discs, '91 GW FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 16:56:23 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: wait a minute - seats just noticed on the bottom of the WJ base there is a large torx bolt... if that was removed I may be able to set the base directly on the floor, at least on the driver's side... http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2008/04-Apr-10-birds-SJ-WJseats/Omega-Seat-swap/WJ-seat-stock/P1160529.jpg http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2008/04-Apr-10-birds-SJ-WJseats/Omega-Seat-swap/WJ-seat-stock/P1160532.jpg adding ALL.html to that directory. ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com ** http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 22:05:48 -0400 From: "Neal Hoover" Subject: Re: fsj: Re: mixing seats > I looked at your pix, that's what inspired me... I was thinking cool, a few > angle brackets, a few bolts, maybe some drilling, voila... ah - glad i could have been of some inspiration, sir! well, kinda, i guess. ;) not sure why the WJ seats came out so high for you. looks like the WJ bases and ZJ bases are very similar if not the same thing. is the cab of a GW that much shorter than a j-truck? i'da thought they'd be the same as well! any ideas on why yours came out so high up? perhaps the WJ seat backs are taller? now, i will say this... the seat bottoms of the ZJ seats that i put in do sit a bit higher than the stock j-truck seats (all of them... from a bench seat, to the sport buckets, to the power SJ Cherokee seats that i was going to use, but decided not to). i do like it that way, as it doesn't feel like i'm sitting on the floor. i'll go on to say this: that i've never had my j-truck (as you know) as a DD yet. that means i've never gotten used to the way the stock FSJ seats sit. i've been an XJ-er for many years. so, when i swapped in the ZJ seats, they felt a little more natural to me. plus, my arm rests comfortably on the top of the door with the window down, instead of having my elbow pointing up in the air. heh. maybe this is where the confusion is???? Neal A. Hoover Project '76 J-10 Project '96 XJ http://community.webshots.com/user/proj96xj - ----- Original Message ----- From: "john" To: "Neal Hoover" Cc: "full size jeep list" Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 7:48 PM Subject: Re: fsj: Re: mixing seats > I looked at your pix, that's what inspired me... I was thinking cool, a few > angle brackets, a few bolts, maybe some drilling, voila... > > until I put the seat in and noticed it was a couple of inches from the roof. :) > > I may do a rethink on the mounting of the sj base to the wj... what will be > more complex is actually making the wj seats work on the leather units because > the recline is powered too... > > one possibility is to remove those rivets and set the WJ base directly on the > floor... haven't looked at the pass side yet, might complicate things again... > and you can only "adjust" stuff so much with a sledge hammer. :) > > http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2008/04-Apr-10-birds-SJ-WJseats/Omega-Seat-swap/WJ-seat-stock/P1160529.jpg > > john > > > ----- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://wagoneers.com ** http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ ** > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > On Thu, 10 Apr 2008, Neal Hoover wrote: > > # CHEATER!!!! > # (jk ;) > # > # the driver's side is the easy side. it's the passenger side that's tough > # because of the hump in the floor for the exhaust heat shield from under the > # floor. had to do a bunch of f'naggling to get my ZJ seats to fit & work > # right. > # > # really, tho, nice work, john. it's always good to have some comfie seats in > # your DD! > # > # if you're interested, i think i have some pics of my seat swap on my > # webshots link. maybe i haven't posted them yet. not sure, as it was some > # time ago, and i haven't touched the project in about 6 months.... > # :( > # > # Neal A. Hoover > # Project '76 J-10 > # Project '96 XJ > # http://community.webshots.com/user/proj96xj > # > # > # ----- Original Message ----- > # From: "john" > # To: "Neal Hoover" > # Cc: "full size jeep list" > # Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 6:18 PM > # Subject: Re: fsj: Re: mixing seats > # > # > # > > # > http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2008/04-Apr-10-birds-SJ-WJseats/ > # > > # > ----- > # > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > # > http://wagoneers.com ** http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ ** > # > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > # > > # > > # > On Thu, 10 Apr 2008, Neal Hoover wrote: > # > > # > # curious to see what you finally come up with, John! i'd like to see > # how > # > # your set-up compares to the alterations i did to some ZJ seat bases to > # get > # > # them to fit into my j-truck project. i think the placement turned out > # > # rather well, in conjunction with an aftermarket YJ center console. > # > # > # > # Neal A. Hoover > # > # Project '76 J-10 > # > # Project '96 XJ > # > # http://community.webshots.com/user/proj96xj > # > # > # > # > # > # ----- Original Message ----- > # > # From: "john" > # > # To: ; "full size jeep list" > # > # Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 3:28 AM > # > # Subject: fsj: mixing seats > # > # > # > # > # > # > just spent an evening with an SJ and a WJ seat... and a drill > # > # > and a few wrenches... :) > # > # > > # > # > The WJ Grand Cherokee seat was simply too tall for the Grand > # Wagoneer. > # > # > > # > # > The Jeep Nut on the FSJ list came up with a cool idea of mounting > # > # > ZJ seats in his J10... but even as short as I am that wouldn't work > # > # > with the WJ seats in my GW. > # > # > > # > # > So, having modified a few seats before, I took the WJ base off the > # > # > WJ seat and the SJ base off the SJ seat and lo and behold, the bases > # > # > are pretty close... > # > # > > # > # > I used one existing hole and set it up, it's a little bit right of > # > # > center, but so am I so we'll get along ok. ;) > # > # > > # > # > I drilled a couple of holes into the WJ seat frame. At first I > # thought > # > # > I needed to raise the back of the seat, used some washers but it was > # > # > too much. > # > # > > # > # > So I figured I should lower the front... put the SJ base UNDER the > # frame > # > # > on the WJ seat and that worked... almost... the other side of the WJ > # > # > then was too high... that's when I got my 8 lb friend out and > # "adjusted" > # > # > it. > # > # > > # > # > Looking forward to a more comfortable seat that supports my back... > # > # > > # > # > the seat is sitting up a little higher than stock, which isn't a > # problem > # > # > for me. > # > # > > # > # > john > # > # > > # > # > ----- > # > # > # > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > # > # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > # > # > http://wagoneers.com ** http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ > # ** > # > # > # > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > # > # > # ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 22:12:45 -0400 From: "Neal Hoover" Subject: fsj: Re: wait a minute - seats naw, unfortunately, that's what holds the block for the screw drive mechanism that moves the seat forward and backward. you could cut some of the "feet" off and weld on some shorter angle iron for some new feet. that would lower it down an inch or two. be careful, though, don't cut the original feet off too close to the rails, because the heat from welding the angle iron back on will warp the slide rails and will render the power seat option useless. ask me how i know. :-/ Neal A. Hoover (now using ZJ seats instead of the XJ seats i intended to use first) Project '76 J-10 Project '96 XJ http://community.webshots.com/user/proj96xj - ----- Original Message ----- From: "john" To: "full size jeep list" Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 7:56 PM Subject: fsj: wait a minute - seats > just noticed on the bottom of the WJ base there is a large > torx bolt... if that was removed I may be able to set the > base directly on the floor, at least on the driver's side... > > http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2008/04-Apr-10-birds-SJ-WJseats/Omega-Seat-swap/WJ-seat-stock/P1160529.jpg > > http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2008/04-Apr-10-birds-SJ-WJseats/Omega-Seat-swap/WJ-seat-stock/P1160532.jpg > > adding ALL.html to that directory. > ----- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://wagoneers.com ** http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ ** > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 19:28:45 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Re: mixing seats I think a J10 has a higher roof, and my GW roof is lower because of the factory moon roof. the SJ seats are ok, if you don't need lumbar, thorasic or bottom support... :) they look nice... the zj seats are pretty good, but the wj seats are the best, they ruined the seats in the new wk too... much more uncomfortable, much like a liberty/kj. thanx for the info on the next email about that lower rail, will look at it and see what I can do... cutting those feet off and bolting a flat plate to the bottom then having that bolted to the stock floor mounts might just work... we'll see... at this point, I'm driving it daily... :) TONIGHT, new shocks... and a manual override for the glow plug controller... my controller feels the engine doesn't need glow plugs after it's been driving, but the engine disagrees, leaving me cranky, I mean cranking... ;) also need to set the idle back a wee bit... I can comfortably idle at about 35 mph right now... stoplights are interesting, the beast wants to go... a couple other cool features... driving down I-5 I pulled alongside a semi truck, looked over and could see in the cab... cool... but wait, there's more... at a stoplight I looked in my rear view and only saw the top of a honda behind me... dang, we could double park, him under my backend without any problems... :) enjoying a Diesel powered full size Jeep... dreams do come true kids... :)\ praise the Lord and pass the waste veggie oil please... :) john ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com ** http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Thu, 10 Apr 2008, Neal Hoover wrote: # > I looked at your pix, that's what inspired me... I was thinking cool, a # few # > angle brackets, a few bolts, maybe some drilling, voila... # # ah - glad i could have been of some inspiration, sir! well, kinda, i guess. # ;) # not sure why the WJ seats came out so high for you. looks like the WJ bases # and ZJ bases are very similar if not the same thing. is the cab of a GW # that much shorter than a j-truck? i'da thought they'd be the same as well! # any ideas on why yours came out so high up? perhaps the WJ seat backs are # taller? # # now, i will say this... the seat bottoms of the ZJ seats that i put in do # sit a bit higher than the stock j-truck seats (all of them... from a bench # seat, to the sport buckets, to the power SJ Cherokee seats that i was going # to use, but decided not to). i do like it that way, as it doesn't feel like # i'm sitting on the floor. # i'll go on to say this: that i've never had my j-truck (as you know) as a # DD yet. that means i've never gotten used to the way the stock FSJ seats # sit. i've been an XJ-er for many years. so, when i swapped in the ZJ # seats, they felt a little more natural to me. plus, my arm rests # comfortably on the top of the door with the window down, instead of having # my elbow pointing up in the air. heh. # maybe this is where the confusion is???? # # Neal A. Hoover # Project '76 J-10 # Project '96 XJ # http://community.webshots.com/user/proj96xj # # # ----- Original Message ----- # From: "john" # To: "Neal Hoover" # Cc: "full size jeep list" # Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 7:48 PM # Subject: Re: fsj: Re: mixing seats # # # > I looked at your pix, that's what inspired me... I was thinking cool, a # few # > angle brackets, a few bolts, maybe some drilling, voila... # > # > until I put the seat in and noticed it was a couple of inches from the # roof. :) # > # > I may do a rethink on the mounting of the sj base to the wj... what will # be # > more complex is actually making the wj seats work on the leather units # because # > the recline is powered too... # > # > one possibility is to remove those rivets and set the WJ base directly on # the # > floor... haven't looked at the pass side yet, might complicate things # again... # > and you can only "adjust" stuff so much with a sledge hammer. :) # > # > # http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2008/04-Apr-10-birds-SJ-WJseats/Omega-Seat-swap/WJ-seat-stock/P1160529.jpg # > # > john # > # > # > ----- # > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > http://wagoneers.com ** http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ ** # > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # > # > # > On Thu, 10 Apr 2008, Neal Hoover wrote: # > # > # CHEATER!!!! # > # (jk ;) # > # # > # the driver's side is the easy side. it's the passenger side that's # tough # > # because of the hump in the floor for the exhaust heat shield from under # the # > # floor. had to do a bunch of f'naggling to get my ZJ seats to fit & # work # > # right. # > # # > # really, tho, nice work, john. it's always good to have some comfie # seats in # > # your DD! # > # # > # if you're interested, i think i have some pics of my seat swap on my # > # webshots link. maybe i haven't posted them yet. not sure, as it was # some # > # time ago, and i haven't touched the project in about 6 months.... # > # :( # > # # > # Neal A. Hoover # > # Project '76 J-10 # > # Project '96 XJ # > # http://community.webshots.com/user/proj96xj # > # # > # # > # ----- Original Message ----- # > # From: "john" # > # To: "Neal Hoover" # > # Cc: "full size jeep list" # > # Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 6:18 PM # > # Subject: Re: fsj: Re: mixing seats # > # # > # # > # > # > # > http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2008/04-Apr-10-birds-SJ-WJseats/ # > # > # > # > ----- # > # # > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # > # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > # > http://wagoneers.com ** http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ # ** # > # # > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # > # > # > # > # > # > On Thu, 10 Apr 2008, Neal Hoover wrote: # > # > # > # > # curious to see what you finally come up with, John! i'd like to # see # > # how # > # > # your set-up compares to the alterations i did to some ZJ seat # bases to # > # get # > # > # them to fit into my j-truck project. i think the placement turned # out # > # > # rather well, in conjunction with an aftermarket YJ center console. # > # > # # > # > # Neal A. Hoover # > # > # Project '76 J-10 # > # > # Project '96 XJ # > # > # http://community.webshots.com/user/proj96xj # > # > # # > # > # # > # > # ----- Original Message ----- # > # > # From: "john" # > # > # To: ; "full size jeep list" # # > # > # Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 3:28 AM # > # > # Subject: fsj: mixing seats # > # > # # > # > # # > # > # > just spent an evening with an SJ and a WJ seat... and a drill # > # > # > and a few wrenches... :) # > # > # > # > # > # > The WJ Grand Cherokee seat was simply too tall for the Grand # > # Wagoneer. # > # > # > # > # > # > The Jeep Nut on the FSJ list came up with a cool idea of # mounting # > # > # > ZJ seats in his J10... but even as short as I am that wouldn't # work # > # > # > with the WJ seats in my GW. # > # > # > # > # > # > So, having modified a few seats before, I took the WJ base off # the # > # > # > WJ seat and the SJ base off the SJ seat and lo and behold, the # bases # > # > # > are pretty close... # > # > # > # > # > # > I used one existing hole and set it up, it's a little bit right # of # > # > # > center, but so am I so we'll get along ok. ;) # > # > # > # > # > # > I drilled a couple of holes into the WJ seat frame. At first I # > # thought # > # > # > I needed to raise the back of the seat, used some washers but it # was # > # > # > too much. # > # > # > # > # > # > So I figured I should lower the front... put the SJ base UNDER # the # > # frame # > # > # > on the WJ seat and that worked... almost... the other side of # the WJ # > # > # > then was too high... that's when I got my 8 lb friend out and # > # "adjusted" # > # > # > it. # > # > # > # > # > # > Looking forward to a more comfortable seat that supports my # back... # > # > # > # > # > # > the seat is sitting up a little higher than stock, which isn't a # > # problem # > # > # > for me. # > # > # > # > # > # > john # > # > # > # > # > # > ----- # > # > # # > # # > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # > # > # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they # mold # > # > # > http://wagoneers.com ** # http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ # > # ** # > # > # # > # # > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # > # > # # > # # ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 23:02:21 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: shocks replaced the rancho 5000s with new procomps 3000s, turns out the 5000s I had were the right length... for the front... after we installed the new rear shocks I noticed there is about 1.5 to 2 inches of space... argghhh... the rear shocks are probably too long... will try it tomorrow, but suspect I'll be spending another $75 for shorter shocks that they won't take back... will use them on my trailer or sell them... The ranchos we pulled off were all bad except one... in bad I mean that when we pulled them to the full extent and then compressed them there were spots where it would skip or bind... the steering stabilizer had bad bushings but was smooth, replaced it with a procomp 2000 stabilizer that was a bit longer... had to adjust the mounting bracket on the tie rod. turns out the procomps are made by Tenneco who also make the ranchos and is owned by monroe... (can't find info that says Tenneco makes them, but comparing the rancho 5000s to the procomps they're virtually identical) http://www.tenneco.com/brands/index.html SELECT A BRAND Monroe Walker Rancho DynoMax Clevite Elastomers Gillet Fonos Fric-Rot Kinetic Thrush DNX ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com ** http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 13:48:27 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: birds, deer (and jeeps) more birds... need to use my other camera so it focuses better... :( it's in the 60's today, expecting 70F tomorrow... :) (for those with snow, enjoy it! ;) http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2008/04-Apr-11-spring-n-shocks/ it was dusk so the deer don't show up so well... the airplane is the DreamLifter - a modified 747 to haul 787 sections the new shocks fixed the bouncing problem... added the 6.2L Diesel emblems. Running good... http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2008/04-Apr-10-birds-SJ-WJseats/ drill down to the directory for the birds... http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2008 post fotos on line from time to time... don't always email updates... john ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com ** http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 16:27:46 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: GPS options I traded my handheld GPS to my son for his help in installing my lift kit... so I'm considering a replacement... thinking about using my Panasonic Toughbook 12" or my work Dell 410 (12") with a GPS that connects via UPS: http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11072449&whse=BC&Ne=4000000&eCat=BC|79|4842|4843|74790&N=4024767&Mo=14&No=13&Nr=P_CatalogName:BC&cat=74790&Ns=P_Price|1||P_SignDesc1&lang=en-US&Sp=C&hierPath=79*4842*4843*74790*&topnav= or possibly a small handheld: http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11268611&whse=BC&Ne=4000000&eCat=BC|79|4842|4843|74790&N=4024767&Mo=14&No=12&Nr=P_CatalogName:BC&cat=74790&Ns=P_Price|1||P_SignDesc1&lang=en-US&Sp=C&hierPath=79*4842*4843*74790*&topnav= I don't need navigation or voice. What I am mainly interested in is knowing SPEED and ELEVATION. Having a handheld would be nice for hiking. If I could get a handheld that would connect to my laptop for a larger display would be awesome. Looking to spend less than $150 if possible... thanx for your suggestions... john ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com ** http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 18:21:25 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: front discs, '91 GW are the rotors easily removeable or does it get involved? can't remember... need to replace my dust shield and left front rotor... thanx, john ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com ** http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #3052 **************************