From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Tue Apr 29 23:22:58 2008 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Wednesday, April 30 2008 Volume 01 : Number 3066 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: RE: SOA Re: fsj: RE: SOA fsj: top gear Re: fsj: RE: SOA RE: fsj: RE: SOA RE: fsj: RE: SOA RE: fsj: top gear RE: fsj: springs RE: fsj: track bar RE: fsj: top gear RE: fsj: springs RE: fsj: track bar fsj: Re: [db] top gear Re: [db] RE: fsj: top gear fsj: spring update Re: fsj: top gear Re: fsj: top gear fsj: Re: a good reason to Convert to Diesel... NEMP? FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 11:18:50 -0400 From: "Ryan Hart" Subject: fsj: RE: SOA John, I didn't see a response to your question, so I figured I'd post up. SOA on a D44 gives you around 6-7" of lift on average. If you drive your rig mainly on the road with some off-roading, then I'd go with new springs and not SOA. If you use your rig mostly for wheeling and very little on-road driving if ever, then SOA is a great option. Ryan P. Hart Director of Landscape Architecture Bilson & Associates, P.C. 40 Powder Springs St. Marietta, GA 30064 p.770-419-0006 f.770-419-3664 ryan-at-bilsonassociates.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 08:43:55 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: RE: SOA thanx! My son was thinking 8", I was thinking around 6", so your info is dead on. :) Landscaping? :) heard about the Tulip fields in Mt.Vernon, Washington? http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2008/04-Apr-27-Mt.Vernon-TULIPS-Omega/ http://wagoneers.com/fotos/best-of/ ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com ** http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Tue, 29 Apr 2008, Ryan Hart wrote: # John, I didn't see a response to your question, so I figured I'd post up. # SOA on a D44 gives you around 6-7" of lift on average. If you drive your # rig mainly on the road with some off-roading, then I'd go with new springs # and not SOA. If you use your rig mostly for wheeling and very little # on-road driving if ever, then SOA is a great option. # # Ryan P. Hart # Director of Landscape Architecture # Bilson & Associates, P.C. # 40 Powder Springs St. # Marietta, GA 30064 # p.770-419-0006 # f.770-419-3664 # ryan-at-bilsonassociates.com # ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 08:57:43 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: top gear we reworked our comcast cable package and now have BBC's Top Gear... it's a hoot... haven't seen it for years... john ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com ** http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 08:51:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Greg Loxtercamp Subject: Re: fsj: RE: SOA It is dependent upon the thickness of the spring pack. The calculation is 2x(distance from the center of axle tube to spring mounting pad) + spring pack thickness. - ----- Original Message ---- From: john To: Ryan Hart Cc: fsj-digest-at-digest.net Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 10:43:55 AM Subject: Re: fsj: RE: SOA thanx! My son was thinking 8", I was thinking around 6", so your info is dead on. :) Landscaping? :) heard about the Tulip fields in Mt.Vernon, Washington? http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2008/04-Apr-27-Mt.Vernon-TULIPS-Omega/ http://wagoneers.com/fotos/best-of/ ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com ** http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Tue, 29 Apr 2008, Ryan Hart wrote: # John, I didn't see a response to your question, so I figured I'd post up. # SOA on a D44 gives you around 6-7" of lift on average. If you drive your # rig mainly on the road with some off-roading, then I'd go with new springs # and not SOA. If you use your rig mostly for wheeling and very little # on-road driving if ever, then SOA is a great option. # # Ryan P. Hart # Director of Landscape Architecture # Bilson & Associates, P.C. # 40 Powder Springs St. # Marietta, GA 30064 # p.770-419-0006 # f.770-419-3664 # ryan-at-bilsonassociates.com # ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 11:54:06 -0400 From: "Ryan Hart" Subject: RE: fsj: RE: SOA True, but on average with stock Wag or GW springs, 6-7" is what most folks are getting. Now if you use custom packs or lift springs, that number will increase by the height of the spring plus the 6-7" dimension Ryan P. Hart Director of Landscape Architecture Bilson & Associates, P.C. 40 Powder Springs St. Marietta, GA 30064 p.770-419-0006 f.770-419-3664 ryan-at-bilsonassociates.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 09:06:28 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: RE: fsj: RE: SOA makes sense, the axle tube plus the springs... way more lift than I need or want, unless I used negative arched springs like the GMC jimmy's did. I just need to clear the oil filter and exhaust from the axle. :) 2" over stock is perfect... probably got 3, maybe 4... of course I have 3" body lift too... john ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com ** http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Tue, 29 Apr 2008, Ryan Hart wrote: # True, but on average with stock Wag or GW springs, 6-7" is what most folks # are getting. Now if you use custom packs or lift springs, that number will # increase by the height of the spring plus the 6-7" dimension # # # # Ryan P. Hart # # Director of Landscape Architecture # # Bilson & Associates, P.C. # # 40 Powder Springs St. # # Marietta, GA 30064 # # p.770-419-0006 # # f.770-419-3664 # # ryan-at-bilsonassociates.com # ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 09:23:28 -0700 From: Jim Blair Subject: RE: fsj: top gear I love the one where they tried to kill the Toyota diesel pickup! Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 > Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 08:57:43 -0700 > From: john-at-wagoneers.com > To: > Subject: fsj: top gear > > we reworked our comcast cable package and now have BBC's Top Gear... > it's a hoot... haven't seen it for years... > > john > > ----- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://wagoneers.com ** http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ ** > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself wherever you are. Mobilize! http://www.gowindowslive.com/Mobile/Landing/Messenger/Default.aspx?Locale=en- US?ocid=TAG_APRIL ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 09:34:06 -0700 From: Jim Blair Subject: RE: fsj: springs I never did get to put them in my Jeep, but IIRC 8 leaves. (You'll have to ask Joe Hughes how they rode) From: john Subject: RE: fsj: springs how many leafs? nice ride? like your eagle or better? :) I don't know if I ever rode in yours... how much lift does one get from a spring over on a dana 44? john ----- - - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com ** http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ ** - - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Mon, 28 Apr 2008, Jim Blair wrote: # McCallister (SP?) Spring in BC is who built mine. # _________________________________________________________________ Spell a grand slam in this game where word skill meets World Series. Get in the game. http://club.live.com/word_slugger.aspx?icid=word_slugger_wlhm_admod_april08 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 09:38:08 -0700 From: Jim Blair Subject: RE: fsj: track bar I wouldn't run a track bar with a leaf front end with regular springs, but lifted would give it a sideways tug each bump. (It sure won't help your spring's ride either!) From: john Subject: fsj: track bar I'm wondering if the front track bar could be limiting travel? The springs are still too stiff, but I'm not sure what impact the panhard/track bar has on the situation... If the lift is more than a couple of inches it may be at it's limit. If it is limiting travel it could be part of the issue, but the ride is still too harsh... going to make some calls tomorrow... seeking professional help. ;) john _________________________________________________________________ Make i'm yours. Create a custom banner to support your cause. http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Contribute/Default.aspx?source=TXT_TAGHM_MSN_ Make_IM_Yours ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 09:48:10 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: RE: fsj: top gear that was a classic... that was one of the first episodes my son shared with me... amazing... they blew up the building and the truck survived... how did they finally kill it? :) ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com ** http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Tue, 29 Apr 2008, Jim Blair wrote: # I love the one where they tried to kill the Toyota diesel pickup! # # Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 # # # > Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 08:57:43 -0700 # > From: john-at-wagoneers.com # > To: # > Subject: fsj: top gear # > # > we reworked our comcast cable package and now have BBC's Top Gear... # > it's a hoot... haven't seen it for years... # > # > john # > # > ----- # > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > http://wagoneers.com ** http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ ** # > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # # _________________________________________________________________ # Express yourself wherever you are. Mobilize! # http://www.gowindowslive.com/Mobile/Landing/Messenger/Default.aspx?Locale=en-US?ocid=TAG_APRIL ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 10:06:36 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: RE: fsj: springs oooh. 8 leafs, perfect, how much were they? joe, what's your view of them? still have 'em? john ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com ** http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Tue, 29 Apr 2008, Jim Blair wrote: # I never did get to put them in my Jeep, but IIRC 8 leaves. (You'll have to ask Joe Hughes how they rode) # # # From: john # Subject: RE: fsj: springs # # how many leafs? nice ride? like your eagle or better? :) # I don't know if I ever rode in yours... # # how much lift does one get from a spring over on a dana 44? # # john # # ----- # - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # http://wagoneers.com ** http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ ** # - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # # # On Mon, 28 Apr 2008, Jim Blair wrote: # # # McCallister (SP?) Spring in BC is who built mine. # # # _________________________________________________________________ # Spell a grand slam in this game where word skill meets World Series. Get in the game. # http://club.live.com/word_slugger.aspx?icid=word_slugger_wlhm_admod_april08 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 10:07:54 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: RE: fsj: track bar if I didn't know that the springs were just too stiff I'd consider crawling underneath and removing it... ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com ** http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Tue, 29 Apr 2008, Jim Blair wrote: # I wouldn't run a track bar with a leaf front end with regular springs, but # lifted would give it a sideways tug each bump. (It sure won't help your # spring's ride either!) # # # From: john # Subject: fsj: track bar # # I'm wondering if the front track bar could be limiting travel? # # The springs are still too stiff, but I'm not sure what impact # the panhard/track bar has on the situation... If the lift is # more than a couple of inches it may be at it's limit. If it # is limiting travel it could be part of the issue, but the ride # is still too harsh... # # going to make some calls tomorrow... seeking professional help. ;) # # john # _________________________________________________________________ # Make i'm yours. Create a custom banner to support your cause. # http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Contribute/Default.aspx?source=TXT_TAGHM_MSN_ # Make_IM_Yours # ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 10:09:34 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: [db] top gear You can watch it online here too : http://www11.alluc.org/alluc/tv-shows.html?action=getviewcategory&category_uid=24082&from=T ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com ** http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Tue, 29 Apr 2008, Stephen Rigley wrote: # Season 10 is fab! # You can watch it online here too : # http://www11.alluc.org/alluc/tv-shows.html?action=getviewcategory&category_uid=24082&from=T # # Steve ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 11:21:48 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] RE: fsj: top gear gotta love a Diesel engine. :) real engines rattle... loving both my 6.2L Diesel and my 2.5L Turbo Diesel, and kinda like my son's 3.0L Turbo Diesel... ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com ** http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Tue, 29 Apr 2008, Stephen Rigley wrote: # They didn't ... # http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:TGHiluxDestroyed.jpg # Steve # # On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 5:48 PM, john wrote: # # > that was a classic... that was one of the first episodes my son # > shared with me... amazing... they blew up the building and the # > truck survived... how did they finally kill it? :) # > # > ----- # > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > http://wagoneers.com ** http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ ** # > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # > # > # > On Tue, 29 Apr 2008, Jim Blair wrote: # > # > # I love the one where they tried to kill the Toyota diesel pickup! # > # # > # Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 # > # # > # # > # > Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 08:57:43 -0700 # > # > From: john-at-wagoneers.com # > # > To: # > # > Subject: fsj: top gear # > # > # > # > we reworked our comcast cable package and now have BBC's Top Gear... # > # > it's a hoot... haven't seen it for years... # > # > # > # > john # > # > # > # > ----- # > # > # > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # > # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > # > http://wagoneers.com ** http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/** # > # > # > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # > # # > # _________________________________________________________________ # > # Express yourself wherever you are. Mobilize! # > # # > http://www.gowindowslive.com/Mobile/Landing/Messenger/Default.aspx?Locale=en-US?ocid=TAG_APRIL # > # ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 15:25:11 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: spring update found a local spring shop ... heading over tomorrow with old and new springs... the guy sounds like he knows what he's doing... his son has a real wagoneer... he knew the pain, he completely understood about thick springs... john ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com ** http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 20:22:50 -0400 From: "Neal Hoover" Subject: Re: fsj: top gear no doubt! wasn't there a link to that flying around somewhere? Neal A. Hoover Project '76 J-10 Project '96 XJ http://community.webshots.com/user/proj96xj - ----- Original Message ----- From: "john" To: "Jim Blair" Cc: "local Jeep list" ; "diesel-benz list" ; "xj" Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 12:48 PM Subject: RE: fsj: top gear > that was a classic... that was one of the first episodes my son > shared with me... amazing... they blew up the building and the > truck survived... how did they finally kill it? :) > > ----- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://wagoneers.com ** http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ ** > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > On Tue, 29 Apr 2008, Jim Blair wrote: > > # I love the one where they tried to kill the Toyota diesel pickup! > # > # Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 > # > # > # > Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 08:57:43 -0700 > # > From: john-at-wagoneers.com > # > To: > # > Subject: fsj: top gear > # > > # > we reworked our comcast cable package and now have BBC's Top Gear... > # > it's a hoot... haven't seen it for years... > # > > # > john > # > > # > ----- > # > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > # > http://wagoneers.com ** http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ ** > # > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > # > # _________________________________________________________________ > # Express yourself wherever you are. Mobilize! > # http://www.gowindowslive.com/Mobile/Landing/Messenger/Default.aspx?Locale=en-US?ocid=TAG_APRIL ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 19:13:44 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: top gear someone sent a link to the picture of it at a dealership in the UK or Ireland... I think one of the guys on the Diesel Benz list in Ireland sent it... google it, the picture is in wikipedia... (it'll be in the most recent diesel-benz digest on my server too.) john ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com ** http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Tue, 29 Apr 2008, Neal Hoover wrote: # no doubt! # wasn't there a link to that flying around somewhere? # # Neal A. Hoover # Project '76 J-10 # Project '96 XJ # http://community.webshots.com/user/proj96xj # # # ----- Original Message ----- # From: "john" # To: "Jim Blair" # Cc: "local Jeep list" ; "diesel-benz list" # ; "xj" # Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 12:48 PM # Subject: RE: fsj: top gear # # # > that was a classic... that was one of the first episodes my son # > shared with me... amazing... they blew up the building and the # > truck survived... how did they finally kill it? :) # > # > ----- # > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > http://wagoneers.com ** http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ ** # > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # > # > # > On Tue, 29 Apr 2008, Jim Blair wrote: # > # > # I love the one where they tried to kill the Toyota diesel pickup! # > # # > # Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 # > # # > # # > # > Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 08:57:43 -0700 # > # > From: john-at-wagoneers.com # > # > To: # > # > Subject: fsj: top gear # > # > # > # > we reworked our comcast cable package and now have BBC's Top Gear... # > # > it's a hoot... haven't seen it for years... # > # > # > # > john # > # > # > # > ----- # > # # > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # > # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > # > http://wagoneers.com ** http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ # ** # > # # > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # > # # > # _________________________________________________________________ # > # Express yourself wherever you are. Mobilize! # > # # http://www.gowindowslive.com/Mobile/Landing/Messenger/Default.aspx?Locale=en-US?ocid=TAG_APRIL # ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 23:22:21 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: a good reason to Convert to Diesel... NEMP? any NEMP capable of frying a starter would have incinerated the vehicle and anyone standing any where near it. A starter and it's windings would withstand a significant spike and not even flinch... all relays, solenoids and other electromechanical devices will be fine, with one possible exception... well two... one is that the contacts may be welded shut if they're part of a complete circuit, but could be pried back apart and cleaned up and reused... and two, the counter-emf diode placed across the windings to prevent noise spikes when switched may be fried, but you wouldn't realize it... it'll fail open. Might cause an annoying click in the radio when switched, if you still had a working radio that is. :) Having designed avionics and flight controls to withstand such events, (worked on a very well shielded 747-100 used by the head of a large republic) and also worked with electronic warfare and secure communications in the army signal corp, blah, blah... anyway, I've got a basic handle on this subject. :) So, let's examine what is at risk in a typical FSJ. 1) the transistor radio if turned out will likely have transistors and diodes fried, if off, it has a fair chance of surviving, especially if the owner has input filters on it... the input filters may be open after the event... just bypass. the rf amp and tuner circuit may take a hit, but if it has a cd or cassette it might survive. the biggest input risk is the antenna... I'm thinking tunes after the event are unlikely. 2) electronic ignition will probably quit working... the semiconductor devices at the input to the module will likely have been fried by the spike coming in from any wiring... HOWEVER, remember there is considerable voltage flying around under the hood already, so there is a reasonable chance that the module will be protected well enough to survive... be safe, carry a spare in a closed antistatic bag. 3) the magnetic pickup for the electronic ignition may be damaged... not sure if they use a hall effect device... if they do, it'll likely fail... but only if the spike is quite strong... considering that the body of the vehicle will act as a faraday shield as jim suggests below, it's possible it'll be ok as well... if you have points, they might weld/stick together... most likely not. 4) considering the fact that the EMP event happens in nanoseconds, most light bulbs and other electronics such as gauges and such in the vehicle will not be able to react fast enough to dissipate enough energy to overheat and "open". The biggest risk item are semiconductor devices, ESPECIALLY integrated circuits because of their small size. Resistors, inductors, relays, capacitors, starter windings, light bulbs, switches, etc, will all be fine. LEDs, diodes, transistors and especially IC chips will be toast because the silicon will have melted leaving a gap... if you're really good at soldering and happen to have a scanning electron microscope available... ;) To protect sensitive devices, place devices known as Tranzorbs on the input leads. These are bascially fast acting zener diodes. Their failure mode is short. This permits them to conduct all the current directly to ground, protecting the less capable and weaker components downstream. You could use MOVs, metal oxide varistors, commonly used in power strips and surge protectors, but they're not quite fast enough and will fail open long before all the energy is dissipated, they'll help. (if you're going to try this you have to keep aware of leakage currents... for NEMP it's better to size the devices for well over the nominal voltage... if you size it incorrectly the device will be working normally and frustrate you greatly. :) If you're serious about this stuff General Seminconductor used to have a nice bit of info in their data manuals on designing for things like this. They cited a document a friend of mine from the Osborne Users group had written back in the 1980s talking about protecting aircraft systems. I doubt they even print data manuals any more... they were fazing them out back in the late '80s... So, bottom line... kiss your stereos, CBs, electronic ignition modules, cell phones, ipods, laptops and digital cameras good bye if a NEMP happens... If you have an engine/trans computer in later model vehicle, good chance it'll be inop as well... because of the harsh environment under the hood with a spark engine and the basic faraday (incomplete though) shield effect of the body, there is a reasonable chance they may survive... I wouldn't bet my life on it, but I'm thinking an FSJ electronic ignition system might just survive... If that shield doesn't completely cover the device, it won't help. While there is a lot of metal on a jeep.. open the hood and look down... that's open space... electrical energy can get in there from the bottom... so, while the metal will deflect some of the energy, it won't stop all of it... As for me, I'm driving a Diesel. The electronic controller for the glow plugs is already wonked out, so I have a manual override... the starter is safe... the alternator is probably ok as the diodes are big enough and have sufficient heat sinks to dissipate the energy. If you have a newer Diesel with an electronic fuel pump... carry a spare module... the 6.5L TDs had issues with the controllers overheating, they were too close to the engine, so most of those folks already know what to replace. If you have a newer yet Diesel with computer controls... sorry. Mechanical pumps aren't as efficient... but they are more reliable at times... :) You can learn the math yourself... figure the surface area of the conducting metal going into the device, figure the distance from the event and find the formula to calculate how many joules of energy you'll receive given the area... convert that to heat over the expected time of the pulse, again, nanoseconds (10 to the minus 9th), and determine if the component will be able to dissipate it without melting down... it helps if the device is not powered up or has a complete circuit too. If there is no path for the current associated with the NEMP, nothing will get fried. So a radio or ignition module disconnected, unpowered and put into say an ammo can completely closed will be fine. Ground and shields are your friends. Double layers of metal with filters and tranzorbs are used by the military to isolate systems. Every line coming in our out passes through a filter or an optical isolator. It's all easily managed... why do you think airplanes can fly into lightening and not have problems? because we've figured out what's going on... :) my design criteria stated that I had to make sure my circuits were capable of handling a 600 volt spike for something like 30ms (miliseconds). That's a lot of energy... but most components can handle it... especially things like relays, starters and vacuum tubes. :) The russians used a lot of vaccum tube systems even in the '80s as a way of dealing with nemp. A battery will be fine as well... it's a large capacitor... and capable of dissipating a lot of heat... although it's possible the plates could be damaged and might cause problems down the road... but if an NEMP happens this will be the least of your worries. I'll see if I can find that data manual... it'll have the formulas and data... filters, surge protection, grounds, enclosures... all will help. don't wrap cords tightly in loops, or run wires parallel to each other... have wires cross at 90 degree angles. otherwise you'll be making a nice large step up transformer and make your NEMP event even more eventful. :) neatness in wiring can lead to disaster in a lightening storm... john ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com ** http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- On Tue, 29 Apr 2008, Jim Blair wrote: # IIRC, generators burned themselves out, but the starters were okay (batteries were melted down too) The FSJ hood would make a decent Faraday box but you could boost it with some foil wrap heat blanket. I'll pass this on to some people more in the "know". # # Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 # Re: Converting to Diesel... # Posted by: "B. Wetzel" ARDVARRK-at-COMCAST.NET coloradohomeinspections # Date: Tue Apr 29, 2008 8:19 am ((PDT)) # # No, EMP will fry a starter as the induced current is off the charts high. Any electronic or electromechanical device will be taken out unless shielded very well against the pulse. However, I doubt that a FSJ would produce much of an EMP while self destructing. # # Bryant # # ----- Original Message ----- # From: Pat Donahue # To: FSJ-List-at-yahoogroups.com # Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 9:03 AM # Subject: RE: [FSJ-List] Converting to Diesel... # # # I thought it had something to do with windings and a very high induced # current but you may be right. Hopefully I'll never find out. # # Pat # # _________________________________________________________________ # Make i'm yours. Create a custom banner to support your cause. # http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Contribute/Default.aspx?source=TXT_TAGHM_MSN_ Make_IM_Yours ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #3066 **************************