From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Tue Jun 10 12:01:06 2008 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Tuesday, June 10 2008 Volume 01 : Number 3094 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: alarm system question Re: fsj: alarm system question fsj: RE: motor mounts fsj: fsj door locks/alarm fsj: RE: motor mounts fsj: RE: fsj door locks/alarm RE: fsj: RE: motor mounts Re: fsj: RE: fsj door locks/alarm fsj: RE: fsj door locks/alarm FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 13:16:54 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: alarm system question trying to figure out if the locks on my '91 Grand Wagoneer are a "type A" positive trigger, or a Type "C" 5-wire lock. There is a blue wire that unlocks, and green wire that locks... from the bull dog alarm system that I pulled out... (it never locked the doors, but did unlock them... turns out there was a broken wire in the bull dog circuit and bad stock lock relays) the current locks are not working with the alarm system... looking at Alert Automotive's website they list the GW as a Type C setup... would like confirmation of this so I can start wiring up a couple of relays and start hacking up my wiring harness. ;) thanx, john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 14:24:28 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: alarm system question confirmed... 5 wire system... http://www.carstereo.com/help/images/locks_5_wire.gif http://www.bulldogsecurity.com/pdf/typec.htm http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/TECH-INFO/88-91_FSJ_Wiring/88-91-FSJ_Wiring-1024/88-91_FSJ_WiringPg5.jpg larger image size: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/TECH-INFO/88-91_FSJ_Wiring/88-91_FSJ_WiringPg5.jpg this explains why my alarm system never locked, but would unlock... guess I get to play Rube Goldberg with relays tonight... ;) THANX Paul! :) john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Mon, 9 Jun 2008, john wrote: # trying to figure out if the locks on my '91 Grand Wagoneer # are a "type A" positive trigger, or a Type "C" 5-wire lock. # # There is a blue wire that unlocks, and green wire that locks... from the # bull dog alarm system that I pulled out... (it never locked the doors, # but did unlock them... turns out there was a broken wire in the bull dog # circuit and bad stock lock relays) # # the current locks are not working with the alarm system... # # looking at Alert Automotive's website they list the GW as a Type C setup... # # would like confirmation of this so I can start wiring up a couple of # relays and start hacking up my wiring harness. ;) # # thanx, # john # # ----- # ------------------------------------------------------------------------- # Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ # SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL # ------------------------------------------------------------------------- # ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 22:08:27 -0700 From: Jim Blair Subject: fsj: RE: motor mounts The hydraulic mounts are VERY weak! (the Ford V6s eat them regularly) If you were to add another bracket with those as stabilizers (essentially a shock absorber for the motor) then they might help. Part of the problem of a diesel in an FSJ is the frame wasn't designed to handle the vibes, and even the sonic vibrations from the motor and exhaust are causing the body to reverb like a bass cannon in a ghetto car. Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 > Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 12:46:50 -0700 > From: john-at-wagoneers.com > To: > Subject: motor mounts > > RE: looking for better motor mounts to reduce 6.2L Diesel vibration > in '91 Grand Wagoneer (using Novak adapter kit) > > > Talked to Novak about the vibrations associated with their motor mount > kit... Chevy V8 into a Full Size Jeep... the engineer noted that their > current offering is optimized, not too soft, not too firm, but not intended > for a Diesel... > > the dimensions I am working with are: > > 5/8" bolt (ID) > largest diameter of the existing mount 2.25" > smallest diameter of the mount 2" > > total thickness: 1.25" > > here's a picture of the kit: > http://www.novak-adapt.com/images/pics/mounts/mmx-nc1.jpg > > the donut in the middle is the object of interest. > > The two constraints are: 5/8" Inner diameter of the rubber > total thickness of about 1.25" > > here's the location: > http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/Omega-motor-mounts-lights_28May2008/ > > this picture shows the driver's side most clearly: > http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/Omega-motor-mounts-lights_28May2008/P1180366.j pg > passenger side: (removed in an attempt to try the 55-57 chevy v8 mounts) > http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/Omega-motor-mounts-lights_28May2008/P1180364.j pg > > I do not see an issue with a larger outside diameter mount, there is at least > 4 inches of clearance and shape is not a limiting factor. I would > think that increasing the thickness a bit would not be a significant problem, > but would think that 1.5" would be the safe limit. If too much thickness > is added it could begin affecting underhood clearance and driveline angle. > > I went to NAPA and we tried mounts for a 55-57 Chevy V8... correct > shape but the ID was way too small and the OD was also quite small, > if I had opened the ID up I would have had a thick o-ring. > > A chunk of vibration absorbing rubber or some kind of compound > capable of holding about 500 to 600lbs with a 5/8" hole in the middle > and maybe about 3" in diameter, or even 3" x 3" square or so would work. > > Layering of material would be fine too. Open to any ideas. The project > is almost done and got 23.75 mpg on a trip from Portland, Oregon to Seattle > traveling at the posted limits (60-70 mph). > > Suggestions on vibration reduction mounts or materials? > The guy at Novak has heard of a liquid filled mount possibly used on a > Ford Taurus V6. I'm open to any ideas, preferably one that will bolt right in. > > Polyurethane is NOT recommended... > neither is pasta or ravoli. ;) > > thanx, > john meister > > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ > SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > _________________________________________________________________ It^Rs easy to add contacts from Facebook and other social sites through Windows Live^Y Messenger. Learn how. https://www.invite2messenger.net/im/?source=TXT_EML_WLH_LearnHow ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 22:14:52 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: fsj door locks/alarm I've hit a dead end... I got another alarm unit, but this time decided to make sure I had the right wiring before I plugged it in. It turns out the original installer of the previous alarm system wasn't even connected to the power door locks at all... not sure how they managed to unlock with the setup... anyway... I disconnected a couple of connectors in order to break the line to insert the relay setup called out in the installation manual, but nothing stopped the door locks from working... is this info correct? http://www.commandocaralarms.com/wiring/1990-1991/Jeep/Grand_Wagoneer/873.html blue and green wire in the kick panel??? I took a picture of the wiring diagram that I have, not sure if the picture will turn out, we'll see tomorrow. In the meantime everything appears to be working except the lock function, so I may just ask a place like car toys for the connection info... I've had good luck with just asking a lot of the shops... thanx, john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 22:21:22 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: RE: motor mounts actually I think the frame in the FSJ is stouter than the blazers... the issue is the polyurethane material used by novak... it was a "happy medium" between settling out and vibration... for a chevy gas v8... the extra weight and vibrations of a Diesel were not factored in. the exhaust system is pretty quiet... You do realize that Diesel exhaust isn't that loud... we drove down to the muffler shop with an open pipe and you could hardly tell... I've done the same thing with a gas engine and it was a LOT different. :) main issue at this point is the vibrations through the mounts, the exhaust is quiet and I've added a lot of dynamat material... sound isn't so much a problem any more. just need a piece of 1.5" thick rubber about 3" or so in diameter with a 5/8" hold drilled through it. :) you ought to come by and see for yourself... your ignorance of the most efficient type of engine in the world is both overwhelming and depressing at the same time... ;) Diesels rule... try to get 24 mpg with a 5,600lb brick cruising at 70mph with a gas engine and me driving... won't happen, promise you... you might have a lighter foot than me, which means you'd get even better mileage with a Diesel. ;) ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Mon, 9 Jun 2008, Jim Blair wrote: # The hydraulic mounts are VERY weak! (the Ford V6s eat them regularly) If you were to add another bracket with those as stabilizers (essentially a shock absorber for the motor) then they might help. Part of the problem of a diesel in an FSJ is the frame wasn't designed to handle the vibes, and even the sonic vibrations from the motor and exhaust are causing the body to reverb like a bass cannon in a ghetto car. # # Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 # # # > Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 12:46:50 -0700 # > From: john-at-wagoneers.com # > To: # > Subject: motor mounts # > # > RE: looking for better motor mounts to reduce 6.2L Diesel vibration # > in '91 Grand Wagoneer (using Novak adapter kit) # > # > # > Talked to Novak about the vibrations associated with their motor mount # > kit... Chevy V8 into a Full Size Jeep... the engineer noted that their # > current offering is optimized, not too soft, not too firm, but not intended # > for a Diesel... # > # > the dimensions I am working with are: # > # > 5/8" bolt (ID) # > largest diameter of the existing mount 2.25" # > smallest diameter of the mount 2" # > # > total thickness: 1.25" # > # > here's a picture of the kit: # > http://www.novak-adapt.com/images/pics/mounts/mmx-nc1.jpg # > # > the donut in the middle is the object of interest. # > # > The two constraints are: 5/8" Inner diameter of the rubber # > total thickness of about 1.25" # > # > here's the location: # > http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/Omega-motor-mounts-lights_28May2008/ # > # > this picture shows the driver's side most clearly: # > http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/Omega-motor-mounts-lights_28May2008/P1180366.jpg # > passenger side: (removed in an attempt to try the 55-57 chevy v8 mounts) # > http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/Omega-motor-mounts-lights_28May2008/P1180364.jpg # > # > I do not see an issue with a larger outside diameter mount, there is at least # > 4 inches of clearance and shape is not a limiting factor. I would # > think that increasing the thickness a bit would not be a significant problem, # > but would think that 1.5" would be the safe limit. If too much thickness # > is added it could begin affecting underhood clearance and driveline angle. # > # > I went to NAPA and we tried mounts for a 55-57 Chevy V8... correct # > shape but the ID was way too small and the OD was also quite small, # > if I had opened the ID up I would have had a thick o-ring. # > # > A chunk of vibration absorbing rubber or some kind of compound # > capable of holding about 500 to 600lbs with a 5/8" hole in the middle # > and maybe about 3" in diameter, or even 3" x 3" square or so would work. # > # > Layering of material would be fine too. Open to any ideas. The project # > is almost done and got 23.75 mpg on a trip from Portland, Oregon to Seattle # > traveling at the posted limits (60-70 mph). # > # > Suggestions on vibration reduction mounts or materials? # > The guy at Novak has heard of a liquid filled mount possibly used on a # > Ford Taurus V6. I'm open to any ideas, preferably one that will bolt right in. # > # > Polyurethane is NOT recommended... # > neither is pasta or ravoli. ;) # > # > thanx, # > john meister # > # > ----- # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ # > SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- # > # # _________________________________________________________________ # It's easy to add contacts from Facebook and other social sites through Windows Live(TM) Messenger. Learn how. # https://www.invite2messenger.net/im/?source=TXT_EML_WLH_LearnHow ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2008 22:55:59 -0700 From: "Paul and Megan Kershner" Subject: fsj: RE: fsj door locks/alarm John, I don't think you can use the Green and Blue! Those only connect between the Doors (See your picture of the 88 Wiring Diagram). I think you have to cut the Brown and Dark Blue wires AFTER the Switches. Use the "reverse polarity" diagram that you found at http://www.commandocaralarms.com/reversepolaritylocks.asp and all should work. I think the Green and Blue he notes are wrong... Paul - -----Original Message----- From: john [mailto:john-at-wagoneers.com] Sent: Monday, June 09, 2008 10:15 PM To: full size jeep list Cc: Paul & Megan Kershner Subject: fsj door locks/alarm I've hit a dead end... I got another alarm unit, but this time decided to make sure I had the right wiring before I plugged it in. It turns out the original installer of the previous alarm system wasn't even connected to the power door locks at all... not sure how they managed to unlock with the setup... anyway... I disconnected a couple of connectors in order to break the line to insert the relay setup called out in the installation manual, but nothing stopped the door locks from working... is this info correct? http://www.commandocaralarms.com/wiring/1990-1991/Jeep/Grand_Wagoneer/873.ht ml blue and green wire in the kick panel??? I took a picture of the wiring diagram that I have, not sure if the picture will turn out, we'll see tomorrow. In the meantime everything appears to be working except the lock function, so I may just ask a place like car toys for the connection info... I've had good luck with just asking a lot of the shops... thanx, john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 22:59:09 -0700 From: Jim Blair Subject: RE: fsj: RE: motor mounts The diesel Chevs have the frames boxed in for extra strength. (same with Fords. LOTS of the first gens have cracked frames, even from the 6.9l!) It's not the loudness of the exhaust, but the "note" of it, like certain tones can shatter glass. I'm not ignorant of combustion ignition engines. I just don't like their smell. (with good reason it seems) LPG can be run indoors with just basic ventilation (the only fuel that can be used, including alcohol) but only in a properly adjusted engine, Interesting stuff I found: http://www.nazigassings.com/SafetyGuidelines.htm http://www.rense.com/politics6/diesel.htm http://www.dangerouslaboratories.org/biodiesel.html http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/18/AR20061018018 34_pf.html http://newenglandenergysavers.com/pr012112.htm http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/dieselexhaust/index.html http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/msid-3114492,prtpage-1.cms http://www.catf.us/projects/diesel/noescape/ Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 > Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 22:21:22 -0700 > From: john-at-wagoneers.com > To: carnuck-at-hotmail.com > CC: fsj-at-digest.net > Subject: fsj: RE: motor mounts > > actually I think the frame in the FSJ is stouter than the blazers... the issue > is the polyurethane material used by novak... it was a "happy medium" between settling > out and vibration... for a chevy gas v8... the extra weight and vibrations of > a Diesel were not factored in. the exhaust system is pretty quiet... > > You do realize that Diesel exhaust isn't that loud... we drove down to the muffler > shop with an open pipe and you could hardly tell... I've done the same thing > with a gas engine and it was a LOT different. :) > > main issue at this point is the vibrations through the mounts, the exhaust is quiet > and I've added a lot of dynamat material... sound isn't so much a problem any more. > > just need a piece of 1.5" thick rubber about 3" or so in diameter > with a 5/8" hold drilled through it. :) > > you ought to come by and see for yourself... your ignorance of the most efficient > type of engine in the world is both overwhelming and depressing at the same time... ;) > > Diesels rule... try to get 24 mpg with a 5,600lb brick cruising at 70mph with a > gas engine and me driving... won't happen, promise you... you might have a lighter > foot than me, which means you'd get even better mileage with a Diesel. ;) > > ----- > _________________________________________________________________ Enjoy 5 GB of free, password-protected online storage. http://www.windowslive.com/skydrive/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_s kydrive_062008 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 08:23:13 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: RE: fsj door locks/alarm I'm not sure where to connect in the stock wiring though... maybe I should open up the door panel and go right to the motor... I looked at where the cable comes in from the door, it's high up on the kick panel and runs behind the instrument cluster, probably over to those relays that are miserable to get to... actually, those might not be that bad to reach now... looking at the 88 schematic, it's not the same, need to show you the '91 schematic. will try to take pictures of the schematic... john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Mon, 9 Jun 2008, Paul and Megan Kershner wrote: # John, # # I don't think you can use the Green and Blue! Those only connect between # the Doors (See your picture of the 88 Wiring Diagram). I think you have to # cut the Brown and Dark Blue wires AFTER the Switches. Use the "reverse # polarity" diagram that you found at # http://www.commandocaralarms.com/reversepolaritylocks.asp and all should # work. I think the Green and Blue he notes are wrong... # # Paul # # # -----Original Message----- # From: john [mailto:john-at-wagoneers.com] # Sent: Monday, June 09, 2008 10:15 PM # To: full size jeep list # Cc: Paul & Megan Kershner # Subject: fsj door locks/alarm # # # I've hit a dead end... I got another alarm unit, but this time decided to # make # sure I had the right wiring before I plugged it in. # # It turns out the original installer of the previous alarm system wasn't # even connected to the power door locks at all... not sure how they managed # to unlock with the setup... # # anyway... I disconnected a couple of connectors in order to break the # line to insert the relay setup called out in the installation manual, but # nothing stopped the door locks from working... # # is this info correct? # # http://www.commandocaralarms.com/wiring/1990-1991/Jeep/Grand_Wagoneer/873.ht # ml # # blue and green wire in the kick panel??? # # # I took a picture of the wiring diagram that I have, not sure if the picture # will turn out, we'll see tomorrow. # # In the meantime everything appears to be working except the lock function, # so I may # just ask a place like car toys for the connection info... I've had good luck # with # just asking a lot of the shops... # # # thanx, # john # # ----- # ------------------------------------------------------------------------- # Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ # SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL # ------------------------------------------------------------------------- # ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 12:00:22 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: RE: fsj door locks/alarm ...need help on wiring up my Alert 400S alarm system to operate the door locks... very close to being done... just the blue and green wire left... the previous alarm was installed absolutely incorrectly for this function and resulted in releasing the mythical magical smoke from the (first) new system... :) ok, so now we've done the smoke test... time to actually figure it out, with a little help from my friends... (special thanx to paul... I think with this new info we'll get it sorted out... ;) RE: 1991 Grand Wagoneer - alarm interface to lock/unlock power door locks. - do I follow the instructions from Alert for the 400S - see pictures? if so, where do I connect? inside front door, under dash??? - or do I follow other vendors info on "Reverse Polarity" for 5 wire? - where do I add a "Rube Goldberg" relay collection or do I simply connect the blue and green wire as a trigger between the factory relays? confused in clearview john =============================================================================== 1) HOW do I hook up my new Alert Model 400S to operate the door locks in my '91 Grand Wagoneer? (correct factory schematic at: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/TECH-INFO/91-Wiring/91-sj-locks-clear-lg.jpg (it does NOT have factory keyless entry) =============================================================================== 2) I need to know if the Alert 400S diagram for the "Rube Goldberg" add in relay pack is correct, AND where in the rats nest does it go? Does it go by the relays over by the a/c unit on the passenger side? or should I open the driver's door panel and install it there? Factory MANUAL for the Alert 400S: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/TECH-INFO/91-Wiring/Alert400S-install.pdf =============================================================================== 3) I have gotten some conflicting info ... Reverse Polarity??? (I suspect I should ignore this info...) http://www.commandocaralarms.com/wiring/1990-1991/Jeep/Grand_Wagoneer/873.html blue and green wire in the kick panel??? do I splice in or use as a trigger??? POWER LOCK BLUE (5 Wire Reverse Polarity) IN DRIVERS KICK PANEL POWER UNLOCK GREEN (5 Wire Reverse Polarity) IN DRIVERS KICK PANEL =============================================================================== why can't automotive wiring diagrams be more like real electronic schematics??? why can't auto makers use labels on wires? why can't auto makers at least make some attempt at using the same color end to end? =============================================================================== http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/TECH-INFO/91-Wiring/smaller-sized-1024/ALL.html this is what the Alert S400 manual calls out for the 5 wire type: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/TECH-INFO/91-Wiring/alert-manual-type-C-5-wire-diagram-lg.jpg this is the actual 1991 Grand Wagoneer schematic: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/TECH-INFO/91-Wiring/91-sj-locks-clear-lg.jpg http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/TECH-INFO/91-Wiring/ - large images http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/TECH-INFO/91-Wiring/smaller-sized-1024/ - smaller images ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- # # On Mon, 9 Jun 2008, Paul and Megan Kershner wrote: # # # John, # # # # I don't think you can use the Green and Blue! Those only connect between # # the Doors (See your picture of the 88 Wiring Diagram). I think you have to # # cut the Brown and Dark Blue wires AFTER the Switches. Use the "reverse # # polarity" diagram that you found at # # http://www.commandocaralarms.com/reversepolaritylocks.asp and all should # # work. I think the Green and Blue he notes are wrong... # # # # Paul # # ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #3094 **************************