From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Mon Jul 7 10:38:41 2008 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Monday, July 7 2008 Volume 01 : Number 3116 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: fsj: adventures with seats and windows Re: fsj: adventures with seats and windows RE: fsj: adventures with seats and windows fsj: Re: problem aligning 727 torque converter FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 08:45:35 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: adventures with seats and windows I thought about modifying the WJ base to work... cutting off the tabs and setting it on the floor... but when I looked at the passenger side I quickly realized it was not going to be simple... john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Mon, 7 Jul 2008, Neal Hoover wrote: # i left the ZJ base & control motors in-tact. i did have to cut the feet off # and fab up some feet to fit around the hump for the exhaust heat shield. # kind of a funky ped, but it works and is rather solid. # i think i posted some pics of it, but i'll scrouge to see if they're still # lingering on my computer. # # Neal A. Hoover # Project '76 J-10 # Project '96 XJ # http://community.webshots.com/user/proj96xj # # # ----- Original Message ----- # From: "john" # To: "Neal Hoover" # Cc: "full size jeep list" # Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 11:34 AM # Subject: Re: fsj: adventures with seats and windows # # # > how did you do the passenger side? I only recall # > seeing what you did on the driver's side... # > # > john # > # > ----- # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ # > SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- # > # > # > On Mon, 7 Jul 2008, Neal Hoover wrote: # > # > # heard that. # > # i had a time making my ZJ seat bases work w/ my j-truck pan. # > # # > # Neal A. Hoover # > # Project '76 J-10 # > # Project '96 XJ # > # http://community.webshots.com/user/proj96xj # > # # > # # > # ----- Original Message ----- # > # From: "john" # > # To: ; "full size jeep list" # > # Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2008 2:02 AM # > # Subject: Re: fsj: adventures with seats and windows # > # # > # # > # > a bit of clarification... using the SJ power base with the WJ seat... # > # > # > # > the power base has the front and rear motors to raise/lower, and the # > # > horizontal motor to go back and forth... that's all being done with # > # > the SJ motors... the recline and lumbar functions are being done by # > # > the WJ motors... using the stock SJ harness (power and ground # mainly) # > # > and the WJ connection into the seat, a 10 pin connector with a lot # > # > of wires for the seat heater, seat belt, memory module, yada, yada... # > # > # > # > going to use two more leads for the seat heaters. :) # > # > # > # > the reason I'm mixing is that the bases of the WJ won't work on the # SJ # > # floor pan... # > # > # > # > pictures still in the camera. ;) # > # > # > # > ----- # > # # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- # > # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > # > http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: # http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ # > # > SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL # > # # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- # > # > # > # > # > # > On Fri, 4 Jul 2008, john wrote: # > # > # > # > # spent all day figuring out the wiring on my jeep seats... using # the # > # wiring # > # > # from the WJ on the SJ... well, some of it... trying to use the # WJ # > # > # switches with the SJ motors... what a plate of spaghetti. :) # > # > # # > # > # The cloth seats I used before were six-way seats, same as the # GRand # > # WAgoneer... # > # > # so I just used the SJ switch and poked it through the Laredo WJ # seat # > # base... # > # > # # > # > # But these leather seats are premium 10 way seats with lumbar... so # > # rather than # > # > # trying to separate the WJ switch pack and bugger up the seats I # traced # > # wiring # > # > # diagrams and then spliced the WJ motor connectors into the SJ # wiring # > # harness. # > # > # # > # > # Next adventure is wiring up the seat heaters... won't be using # the WJ # > # computers though, they # > # > # route that stuff through the body computer, only have the seat # > # computer... They # > # > # have sensors and appear to switch the voltage to the heaters to # > # regulate them. # > # > # # > # > # They have two positions, hi and low (well, three, off). The # switches # > # on the WJ # > # > # dash are not switches in the normal sense, but send a signal to # the # > # body computer # > # > # which then regulates the temp of the pads to 100 deg F for low, # and 105 # > # deg F for high. # > # > # # > # > # So, I will need to find some kind of external controller for the # seat # > # heaters, or timer relays... # > # > # Or just a simple SPDT with a light and watch my passengers # squirm... :) # > # > # # > # > # In addition, have good news in the fact that the seat module I got # with # > # > # the "new" leather seats isn't needed for my SJ install, so it'll # go in # > # my WJ and should fix the # > # > # issue we have with those heaters... Didn't understand how the # system # > # worked before, and # > # > # these limited seats had been dunked in a river... the module is # not # > # sealed... so it's # > # > # probably corroded. :) # > # > # # > # > # For dinner we went to town in the 300D and the driver's window is # > # acting up... loud # > # > # clunking noise when almost at the top... going up or down... won't # go # > # > # either way on its own now... had to force it up by hand. :( Is # that # > # the track that's # > # > # gone bad??? Not looking forward to that repair... # > # > # # > # > # Fixed my son's '85 300D window last night, turned out it was one # of # > # those wonderful german fuses, # > # > # looked good, but it was rotten to the core. ;) # > # > # # > # > # john # > # > # # > # > # ----- # > # > # > # # # ------------------------------------------------------------------------- # > # > # Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they # mold # > # > # http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: # http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ # > # > # SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL # > # > # > # # # ------------------------------------------------------------------------- # > # > # # > # # ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 11:52:59 -0400 From: "Neal Hoover" Subject: Re: fsj: adventures with seats and windows > but when I looked at the passenger side I quickly realized it was not going to be simple... indeed. i suppose necessity is the mother of invention, aye? ;) Neal A. Hoover Project '76 J-10 Project '96 XJ http://community.webshots.com/user/proj96xj - ----- Original Message ----- From: "john" To: "Neal Hoover" Cc: "full size jeep list" Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 11:45 AM Subject: Re: fsj: adventures with seats and windows > I thought about modifying the WJ base to work... cutting off > the tabs and setting it on the floor... but when I looked at > the passenger side I quickly realized it was not going to be > simple... > > john > > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ > SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > On Mon, 7 Jul 2008, Neal Hoover wrote: > > # i left the ZJ base & control motors in-tact. i did have to cut the feet off > # and fab up some feet to fit around the hump for the exhaust heat shield. > # kind of a funky ped, but it works and is rather solid. > # i think i posted some pics of it, but i'll scrouge to see if they're still > # lingering on my computer. > # > # Neal A. Hoover > # Project '76 J-10 > # Project '96 XJ > # http://community.webshots.com/user/proj96xj > # > # > # ----- Original Message ----- > # From: "john" > # To: "Neal Hoover" > # Cc: "full size jeep list" > # Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 11:34 AM > # Subject: Re: fsj: adventures with seats and windows > # > # > # > how did you do the passenger side? I only recall > # > seeing what you did on the driver's side... > # > > # > john > # > > # > ----- > # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > # > http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ > # > SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL > # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > # > > # > > # > On Mon, 7 Jul 2008, Neal Hoover wrote: > # > > # > # heard that. > # > # i had a time making my ZJ seat bases work w/ my j-truck pan. > # > # > # > # Neal A. Hoover > # > # Project '76 J-10 > # > # Project '96 XJ > # > # http://community.webshots.com/user/proj96xj > # > # > # > # > # > # ----- Original Message ----- > # > # From: "john" > # > # To: ; "full size jeep list" > # > # Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2008 2:02 AM > # > # Subject: Re: fsj: adventures with seats and windows > # > # > # > # > # > # > a bit of clarification... using the SJ power base with the WJ seat... > # > # > > # > # > the power base has the front and rear motors to raise/lower, and the > # > # > horizontal motor to go back and forth... that's all being done with > # > # > the SJ motors... the recline and lumbar functions are being done by > # > # > the WJ motors... using the stock SJ harness (power and ground > # mainly) > # > # > and the WJ connection into the seat, a 10 pin connector with a lot > # > # > of wires for the seat heater, seat belt, memory module, yada, yada... > # > # > > # > # > going to use two more leads for the seat heaters. :) > # > # > > # > # > the reason I'm mixing is that the bases of the WJ won't work on the > # SJ > # > # floor pan... > # > # > > # > # > pictures still in the camera. ;) > # > # > > # > # > ----- > # > # > # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > # > # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > # > # > http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: > # http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ > # > # > SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL > # > # > # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > # > # > > # > # > > # > # > On Fri, 4 Jul 2008, john wrote: > # > # > > # > # > # spent all day figuring out the wiring on my jeep seats... using > # the > # > # wiring > # > # > # from the WJ on the SJ... well, some of it... trying to use the > # WJ > # > # > # switches with the SJ motors... what a plate of spaghetti. :) > # > # > # > # > # > # The cloth seats I used before were six-way seats, same as the > # GRand > # > # WAgoneer... > # > # > # so I just used the SJ switch and poked it through the Laredo WJ > # seat > # > # base... > # > # > # > # > # > # But these leather seats are premium 10 way seats with lumbar... so > # > # rather than > # > # > # trying to separate the WJ switch pack and bugger up the seats I > # traced > # > # wiring > # > # > # diagrams and then spliced the WJ motor connectors into the SJ > # wiring > # > # harness. > # > # > # > # > # > # Next adventure is wiring up the seat heaters... won't be using > # the WJ > # > # computers though, they > # > # > # route that stuff through the body computer, only have the seat > # > # computer... They > # > # > # have sensors and appear to switch the voltage to the heaters to > # > # regulate them. > # > # > # > # > # > # They have two positions, hi and low (well, three, off). The > # switches > # > # on the WJ > # > # > # dash are not switches in the normal sense, but send a signal to > # the > # > # body computer > # > # > # which then regulates the temp of the pads to 100 deg F for low, > # and 105 > # > # deg F for high. > # > # > # > # > # > # So, I will need to find some kind of external controller for the > # seat > # > # heaters, or timer relays... > # > # > # Or just a simple SPDT with a light and watch my passengers > # squirm... :) > # > # > # > # > # > # In addition, have good news in the fact that the seat module I got > # with > # > # > # the "new" leather seats isn't needed for my SJ install, so it'll > # go in > # > # my WJ and should fix the > # > # > # issue we have with those heaters... Didn't understand how the > # system > # > # worked before, and > # > # > # these limited seats had been dunked in a river... the module is > # not > # > # sealed... so it's > # > # > # probably corroded. :) > # > # > # > # > # > # For dinner we went to town in the 300D and the driver's window is > # > # acting up... loud > # > # > # clunking noise when almost at the top... going up or down... won't > # go > # > # > # either way on its own now... had to force it up by hand. :( Is > # that > # > # the track that's > # > # > # gone bad??? Not looking forward to that repair... > # > # > # > # > # > # Fixed my son's '85 300D window last night, turned out it was one > # of > # > # those wonderful german fuses, > # > # > # looked good, but it was rotten to the core. ;) > # > # > # > # > # > # john > # > # > # > # > # > # ----- > # > # > > # > # > # # ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > # > # > # Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they > # mold > # > # > # http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: > # http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ > # > # > # SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL > # > # > > # > # > # # ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > # > # > # > # > # > # ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 09:34:21 -0700 From: Jim Blair Subject: RE: fsj: adventures with seats and windows Necessity is definitely a mother alright! Written laws are like spiders' webs, and will like them only Entangle and hold the poor and weak, while the rich and powerful will easily break through them ANACHARSIS Scythian philosopher (fl. 600 BC) > From: proj96xj-at-bellsouth.net > To: fsj-at-digest.net > Subject: Re: fsj: adventures with seats and windows > Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 11:52:59 -0400 > >> but when I looked at the passenger side I quickly realized it was not > going to be simple... > > indeed. > i suppose necessity is the mother of invention, aye? > ;) > > Neal A. Hoover > Project '76 J-10 > Project '96 XJ > http://community.webshots.com/user/proj96xj > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "john" > To: "Neal Hoover" > Cc: "full size jeep list" > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 11:45 AM > Subject: Re: fsj: adventures with seats and windows > > >> I thought about modifying the WJ base to work... cutting off >> the tabs and setting it on the floor... but when I looked at >> the passenger side I quickly realized it was not going to be >> simple... >> >> john >> >> ----- >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold >> http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ >> SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> On Mon, 7 Jul 2008, Neal Hoover wrote: >> >> # i left the ZJ base & control motors in-tact. i did have to cut the > feet off >> # and fab up some feet to fit around the hump for the exhaust heat > shield. >> # kind of a funky ped, but it works and is rather solid. >> # i think i posted some pics of it, but i'll scrouge to see if they're > still >> # lingering on my computer. >> # >> # Neal A. Hoover >> # Project '76 J-10 >> # Project '96 XJ >> # http://community.webshots.com/user/proj96xj >> # >> # >> # ----- Original Message ----- >> # From: "john" >> # To: "Neal Hoover" >> # Cc: "full size jeep list" >> # Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 11:34 AM >> # Subject: Re: fsj: adventures with seats and windows >> # >> # >> #> how did you do the passenger side? I only recall >> #> seeing what you did on the driver's side... >> #> >> #> john >> #> >> #> ----- >> # >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> #> Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold >> #> http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: > http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ >> #> SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL >> # >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> #> >> #> >> #> On Mon, 7 Jul 2008, Neal Hoover wrote: >> #> >> #> # heard that. >> #> # i had a time making my ZJ seat bases work w/ my j-truck pan. >> #> # >> #> # Neal A. Hoover >> #> # Project '76 J-10 >> #> # Project '96 XJ >> #> # http://community.webshots.com/user/proj96xj >> #> # >> #> # >> #> # ----- Original Message ----- >> #> # From: "john" >> #> # To: ; "full size jeep list" > >> #> # Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2008 2:02 AM >> #> # Subject: Re: fsj: adventures with seats and windows >> #> # >> #> # >> #> #> a bit of clarification... using the SJ power base with the WJ > seat... >> #> #> >> #> #> the power base has the front and rear motors to raise/lower, and > the >> #> #> horizontal motor to go back and forth... that's all being done > with >> #> #> the SJ motors... the recline and lumbar functions are being done > by >> #> #> the WJ motors... using the stock SJ harness (power and ground >> # mainly) >> #> #> and the WJ connection into the seat, a 10 pin connector with a > lot >> #> #> of wires for the seat heater, seat belt, memory module, yada, > yada... >> #> #> >> #> #> going to use two more leads for the seat heaters. :) >> #> #> >> #> #> the reason I'm mixing is that the bases of the WJ won't work on > the >> # SJ >> #> # floor pan... >> #> #> >> #> #> pictures still in the camera. ;) >> #> #> >> #> #> ----- >> #> # >> # >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> #> #> Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they > mold >> #> #> http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: >> # http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ >> #> #> SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: > http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL >> #> # >> # >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> #> #> >> #> #> >> #> #> On Fri, 4 Jul 2008, john wrote: >> #> #> >> #> #> # spent all day figuring out the wiring on my jeep seats... > using >> # the >> #> # wiring >> #> #> # from the WJ on the SJ... well, some of it... trying to use > the >> # WJ >> #> #> # switches with the SJ motors... what a plate of spaghetti. :) >> #> #> # >> #> #> # The cloth seats I used before were six-way seats, same as the >> # GRand >> #> # WAgoneer... >> #> #> # so I just used the SJ switch and poked it through the Laredo > WJ >> # seat >> #> # base... >> #> #> # >> #> #> # But these leather seats are premium 10 way seats with > lumbar... so >> #> # rather than >> #> #> # trying to separate the WJ switch pack and bugger up the seats > I >> # traced >> #> # wiring >> #> #> # diagrams and then spliced the WJ motor connectors into the SJ >> # wiring >> #> # harness. >> #> #> # >> #> #> # Next adventure is wiring up the seat heaters... won't be > using >> # the WJ >> #> # computers though, they >> #> #> # route that stuff through the body computer, only have the > seat >> #> # computer... They >> #> #> # have sensors and appear to switch the voltage to the heaters > to >> #> # regulate them. >> #> #> # >> #> #> # They have two positions, hi and low (well, three, off). The >> # switches >> #> # on the WJ >> #> #> # dash are not switches in the normal sense, but send a signal > to >> # the >> #> # body computer >> #> #> # which then regulates the temp of the pads to 100 deg F for > low, >> # and 105 >> #> # deg F for high. >> #> #> # >> #> #> # So, I will need to find some kind of external controller for > the >> # seat >> #> # heaters, or timer relays... >> #> #> # Or just a simple SPDT with a light and watch my passengers >> # squirm... :) >> #> #> # >> #> #> # In addition, have good news in the fact that the seat module > I got >> # with >> #> #> # the "new" leather seats isn't needed for my SJ install, so > it'll >> # go in >> #> # my WJ and should fix the >> #> #> # issue we have with those heaters... Didn't understand how > the >> # system >> #> # worked before, and >> #> #> # these limited seats had been dunked in a river... the module > is >> # not >> #> # sealed... so it's >> #> #> # probably corroded. :) >> #> #> # >> #> #> # For dinner we went to town in the 300D and the driver's > window is >> #> # acting up... loud >> #> #> # clunking noise when almost at the top... going up or down... > won't >> # go >> #> #> # either way on its own now... had to force it up by hand. > :( Is >> # that >> #> # the track that's >> #> #> # gone bad??? Not looking forward to that repair... >> #> #> # >> #> #> # Fixed my son's '85 300D window last night, turned out it was > one >> # of >> #> # those wonderful german fuses, >> #> #> # looked good, but it was rotten to the core. ;) >> #> #> # >> #> #> # john >> #> #> # >> #> #> # ----- >> #> #> >> #> # >> # > # ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> #> #> # Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, > they >> # mold >> #> #> # http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: >> # http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ >> #> #> # SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: > http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL >> #> #> >> #> # >> # > # ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> #> #> # >> #> # >> # _________________________________________________________________ Making the world a better place one message at a time. http://www.imtalkathon.com/?source=EML_WLH_Talkathon_BetterPlace ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 10:38:21 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: problem aligning 727 torque converter I'm not a 727 expert... but there is a difference in the jeep versions, they have a lock up feature and a couple other changes... it's possible that is the issue... will forward this to the FSJ list. john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com john's 6.2L GW: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Omega/ SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL Synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Mon, 7 Jul 2008, Deuty, Scott wrote: sdeuty1-at-hp.com # John, # I have a 727 in a 1986 J20. The old torque converter slid right back on the shaft but the CR55H that I bought refuses to go on past the first shaft. I have tried twisting and aligning the pump tangs to no avail. Can you suggest anything? # # # Scott Deuty, Senior Power Supply Design Engineer # (970) 898-1565 # HP Workstation Power # # ______ # _/ ______\_ # O[[[_____]]]O # |_\o--------o/_| # # ________ # _/_________\_ # [|||]___O___[|||] # \o___[__]___o/ # |__| |__| # # # ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #3116 **************************