From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Wed Aug 20 23:17:24 2008 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Thursday, August 21 2008 Volume 01 : Number 3157 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: fsj: RE: [db] the next stage... cameras Re: fsj: RE: [db] the next stage... cameras RE: fsj: RE: [db] the next stage... cameras Re: fsj: RE: [db] the next stage... cameras RE: fsj: RE: [db] the next stage... cameras Re: fsj: RE: [db] the next stage... cameras RE: fsj: RE: [db] the next stage... cameras fsj: trusses, look a like benz, more adventures RE: fsj: RE: [db] the next stage... cameras FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 10:15:03 CDT From: Dan Black Subject: Re: fsj: RE: [db] the next stage... cameras Holy buckets! $1000?!? And is that cell phones, cameras, or both? I don't usually like it when people are talking on cell phones in city traffic, due to the fact that they are oblivious and either obstruct traffic or even create dangerous situations. But on the open highway with low traffic, I care a lot less. I even use mine in traffic on very rare occasions -- maybe a few times a year for _very_ short calls (<3min) in town (and with relatively low traffic), and maybe a couple times per year for longer calls on the open interstate. (I'd probably do it a little more often on interstate, except that I just don't get out of town that often.) If I need to make a call and there's a heavy traffic situation, I just pull off into a parking lot or something to make/take the call. As much as I enjoy scenic and other recreational driving and hope it's always an option, I'll admit it'll be nice when they get automated stuff implemented for the "just get me to Point B" driving. (Others argue that they already have that -- they call it "busses and trains". But there isn't much of that beyond the big coastal cities.) Jim Blair said: {- Can't hold onto it to aim while driving. It's a $1,000 fine now (Yes, big {- brother IS watching!) {- {- > Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 09:45:30 -0700 {- > From: john-at-wagoneers.com {- > To: carnuck-at-hotmail.com {- > CC: mbalea-at-hotmail.com; fsj-at-digest.net; xj-at-digest.net {- > Subject: RE: fsj: RE: [db] the next stage... cameras {- > {- > I like my treos, but their not flip phones... {- > {- > I have yet to see a camera phone that can take a decent picture... your {- best {- > bet is to buy a nice Digital camera... Panasonic/Lumix, Olympus, both make {- nice {- > units... lots of options, ALL better than a cell phone camera. :) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Long, long ago, before eruptions were invented, the molten lava had to be carried down the mountainside, bucket by bucket, and poured over the sleeping villagers. This took time. - -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 10:16:44 CDT From: Dan Black Subject: Re: fsj: RE: [db] the next stage... cameras Jim Blair said: {- Can't hold onto it to aim while driving. It's a $1,000 fine now (Yes, big {- brother IS watching!) Oh... And does that mean your Chevy OnStar system will go ahead and turn you in when it senses a digital device in the car? Stupid freakin' Big Brother... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Remember me? I'm the one from the registry office. -- Mrs. Floyd - -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 08:37:56 -0700 From: Jim Blair Subject: RE: fsj: RE: [db] the next stage... cameras They are shooting for ANYTHING in your hand or on your dash, (like those CD players that aren't supposed to be seen by the driver) that could distract you from safe driving with their new upcoming laws. Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 > To: fsj-at-digest.net > Subject: Re: fsj: RE: [db] the next stage... cameras > From: dan-at-black.org > Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 10:15:03 -0500 > > Holy buckets! $1000?!? And is that cell phones, cameras, or both? > > I don't usually like it when people are talking on cell phones in city > traffic, due to the fact that they are oblivious and either obstruct > traffic or even create dangerous situations. But on the open highway > with low traffic, I care a lot less. > > I even use mine in traffic on very rare occasions -- maybe a few times a > year for _very_ short calls ( traffic), and maybe a couple times per year for longer calls on the open > interstate. (I'd probably do it a little more often on interstate, > except that I just don't get out of town that often.) If I need to make > a call and there's a heavy traffic situation, I just pull off into a > parking lot or something to make/take the call. > > As much as I enjoy scenic and other recreational driving and hope it's > always an option, I'll admit it'll be nice when they get automated stuff > implemented for the "just get me to Point B" driving. (Others argue > that they already have that -- they call it "busses and trains". But > there isn't much of that beyond the big coastal cities.) > > Jim Blair said: > {- Can't hold onto it to aim while driving. It's a $1,000 fine now (Yes, big > {- brother IS watching!) > {- > {-> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 09:45:30 -0700 > {-> From: john-at-wagoneers.com > {-> To: carnuck-at-hotmail.com > {-> CC: mbalea-at-hotmail.com; fsj-at-digest.net; xj-at-digest.net > {-> Subject: RE: fsj: RE: [db] the next stage... cameras > {-> > {-> I like my treos, but their not flip phones... > {-> > {-> I have yet to see a camera phone that can take a decent picture... your > {- best > {-> bet is to buy a nice Digital camera... Panasonic/Lumix, Olympus, both make > {- nice > {-> units... lots of options, ALL better than a cell phone camera. :) > > - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- - -- > Long, long ago, before eruptions were invented, the molten lava > had to be carried down the mountainside, bucket by bucket, > and poured over the sleeping villagers. This took time. > -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org - -------------- _________________________________________________________________ Talk to your Yahoo! Friends via Windows Live Messenger. Find out how. http://www.windowslive.com/explore/messenger?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_messenger_yaho o_082008 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 09:03:14 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: RE: [db] the next stage... cameras # Jim Blair said: # {- Can't hold onto it to aim while driving. It's a $1,000 fine now (Yes, big # {- brother IS watching!) I'm not so sure that the info Jim is offering is completely accurate... most of the fines are $105. or something like that... 129? 101? The only laws I'm aware of are a complete ban on texting, a ban on holding a phone to your ear, littering, and distracted driving... they haven't outlawed photography, lattes, in car conversations, sight seeing or even eating... although the "distracted driving" law covers some of those things, but only with a $100 range fine... quite possibly there is a maximum set to $1000 or more... if you look like you just crawled out from under a rock, or a Jeep, the trooper has the discrection to really nail you, but you can contest it in court... I suspect if you violate a bunch of rules your fees could easily add up the fines pretty quick... but most of the time it'll be the minimum, or if you're clean shaven and polite, a warning... Jim, do you have the RCW info on this or any news items citing this? I just went through the dol.wa.gov site and have looked through the related RCWs before... I am a bit skeptical of this information... :) Big brother is a big pain no doubt, but our troopers and sherrifs out here aren't all that bad at all, pretty reasonable folks, but then again my interaction with them has always been pleasant... Jim, cite some official info, you're frightening the children, and propagating myth... :) BTW, we have a governor race going on... the GOP candidate has noted that our current Demo incumbent has raised our gas taxes to the highest in the country... current Diesel price at the corner shell is "down" to 4.55, regular unleaded at $3.99... whoo hoo... heading over to Ellensburg tomorrow to pick up the 4" exhaust for my 6.5L TD powered BigOldBlazer (bob??)... the engineer over there has an R&D setup... he's got a '94 1/2t pickup with the 6.5L that he's taking to Bonneville in September to attempt the land speed record for a stock Diesel pickup... not sure what the current record is, but he's going for 150mph... He's going to let me take pictures. :) john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold * SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL * * SAVE ELECTRICITY use Linux: http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf * http://wagoneers.com http://wagoneers.com/johns-vehicles.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Wed, 20 Aug 2008, Dan Black wrote: # Holy buckets! $1000?!? And is that cell phones, cameras, or both? # # I don't usually like it when people are talking on cell phones in city # traffic, due to the fact that they are oblivious and either obstruct # traffic or even create dangerous situations. But on the open highway # with low traffic, I care a lot less. # # I even use mine in traffic on very rare occasions -- maybe a few times a # year for _very_ short calls (<3min) in town (and with relatively low # traffic), and maybe a couple times per year for longer calls on the open # interstate. (I'd probably do it a little more often on interstate, # except that I just don't get out of town that often.) If I need to make # a call and there's a heavy traffic situation, I just pull off into a # parking lot or something to make/take the call. # # As much as I enjoy scenic and other recreational driving and hope it's # always an option, I'll admit it'll be nice when they get automated stuff # implemented for the "just get me to Point B" driving. (Others argue # that they already have that -- they call it "busses and trains". But # there isn't much of that beyond the big coastal cities.) # # Jim Blair said: # {- Can't hold onto it to aim while driving. It's a $1,000 fine now (Yes, big # {- brother IS watching!) # {- # {- > Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 09:45:30 -0700 # {- > From: john-at-wagoneers.com # {- > To: carnuck-at-hotmail.com # {- > CC: mbalea-at-hotmail.com; fsj-at-digest.net; xj-at-digest.net # {- > Subject: RE: fsj: RE: [db] the next stage... cameras # {- > # {- > I like my treos, but their not flip phones... # {- > # {- > I have yet to see a camera phone that can take a decent picture... your # {- best # {- > bet is to buy a nice Digital camera... Panasonic/Lumix, Olympus, both make # {- nice # {- > units... lots of options, ALL better than a cell phone camera. :) # # ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- # Long, long ago, before eruptions were invented, the molten lava # had to be carried down the mountainside, bucket by bucket, # and poured over the sleeping villagers. This took time. # -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- # ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 09:06:50 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: RE: fsj: RE: [db] the next stage... cameras the law does not state that... but they can get you with distracted driving... If you read the RCW it specifically talks about communication devices, and if I'm not mistaken, this is a secondary offense issue... meaning you have to do something stupid like improper lane change, burned out light, speeding, etc. before they can stop you for it... ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold * SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL * * SAVE ELECTRICITY use Linux: http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf * http://wagoneers.com http://wagoneers.com/johns-vehicles.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Wed, 20 Aug 2008, Jim Blair wrote: # They are shooting for ANYTHING in your hand or on your dash, (like those CD # players that aren't supposed to be seen by the driver) that could distract you # from safe driving with their new upcoming laws. # # Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 # # # > To: fsj-at-digest.net # > Subject: Re: fsj: RE: [db] the next stage... cameras # > From: dan-at-black.org # > Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 10:15:03 -0500 # > # > Holy buckets! $1000?!? And is that cell phones, cameras, or both? # > # > I don't usually like it when people are talking on cell phones in city # > traffic, due to the fact that they are oblivious and either obstruct # > traffic or even create dangerous situations. But on the open highway # > with low traffic, I care a lot less. # > # > I even use mine in traffic on very rare occasions -- maybe a few times a # > year for _very_ short calls ( traffic), and maybe a couple times per year # for longer calls on the open # > interstate. (I'd probably do it a little more often on interstate, # > except that I just don't get out of town that often.) If I need to make # > a call and there's a heavy traffic situation, I just pull off into a # > parking lot or something to make/take the call. # > # > As much as I enjoy scenic and other recreational driving and hope it's # > always an option, I'll admit it'll be nice when they get automated stuff # > implemented for the "just get me to Point B" driving. (Others argue # > that they already have that -- they call it "busses and trains". But # > there isn't much of that beyond the big coastal cities.) # > # > Jim Blair said: # > {- Can't hold onto it to aim while driving. It's a $1,000 fine now (Yes, # big # > {- brother IS watching!) # > {- # > {-> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 09:45:30 -0700 # > {-> From: john-at-wagoneers.com # > {-> To: carnuck-at-hotmail.com # > {-> CC: mbalea-at-hotmail.com; fsj-at-digest.net; xj-at-digest.net # > {-> Subject: RE: fsj: RE: [db] the next stage... cameras # > {-> # > {-> I like my treos, but their not flip phones... # > {-> # > {-> I have yet to see a camera phone that can take a decent picture... your # > {- best # > {-> bet is to buy a nice Digital camera... Panasonic/Lumix, Olympus, both # make # > {- nice # > {-> units... lots of options, ALL better than a cell phone camera. :) # > # > # ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- # -- # > Long, long ago, before eruptions were invented, the molten lava # > had to be carried down the mountainside, bucket by bucket, # > and poured over the sleeping villagers. This took time. # > -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org # -------------- # # _________________________________________________________________ # Talk to your Yahoo! Friends via Windows Live Messenger. Find out how. # http://www.windowslive.com/explore/messenger?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_messenger_yaho # o_082008 # ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 12:49:19 CDT From: Dan Black Subject: Re: fsj: RE: [db] the next stage... cameras Jim Blair said: {- They are shooting for ANYTHING in your hand or on your dash, (like those CD {- players that aren't supposed to be seen by the driver) that could distract y {- ou from safe driving with their new upcoming laws. Then they wouldn't have liked seeing me taking pics with the SLR (so the camera viewfinder was up to my eye) out the side window going across Nebraska and Iowa, then... :) john said: {- The only laws I'm aware of are a complete ban on texting, a ban {- on holding a phone to your ear, littering, and distracted driving... {- they haven't outlawed photography, lattes, in car conversations, sight seeing {- or even eating... YET. I'm surprised they didn't ban coffee after the Stella incident (the hot coffee from McDonald's in the lap). Maybe it was because she didn't crash (AFAIK). But if one person out of thirty million crashes because they were focused on their latte, you can bet there will be people calling for a complete ban on lattes since they're obviously a dangerous distraction. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away. -- Antoine de Saint Exupery - -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 23:50:24 +0000 From: michel balea Subject: RE: fsj: RE: [db] the next stage... cameras or, look at your cell phone gps for direction after you had text the address.... while doing 80 in a construction zone..... these young adults are insane..... and they are my kids' friends..... Imagine what your kids are doing while you are not watching... Michel > Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 09:06:50 -0700 > From: john-at-wagoneers.com > To: carnuck-at-hotmail.com > CC: dan-at-black.org; fsj-at-digest.net > Subject: RE: fsj: RE: [db] the next stage... cameras > > the law does not state that... > > but they can get you with distracted driving... > > If you read the RCW it specifically talks about communication devices, > and if I'm not mistaken, this is a secondary offense issue... meaning > you have to do something stupid like improper lane change, burned out > light, speeding, etc. before they can stop you for it... > > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > * SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL * > * SAVE ELECTRICITY use Linux: http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf * > http://wagoneers.com http://wagoneers.com/johns-vehicles.html > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > On Wed, 20 Aug 2008, Jim Blair wrote: > > # They are shooting for ANYTHING in your hand or on your dash, (like those CD > # players that aren't supposed to be seen by the driver) that could distract you > # from safe driving with their new upcoming laws. > # > # Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 > # > # > # > To: fsj-at-digest.net > # > Subject: Re: fsj: RE: [db] the next stage... cameras > # > From: dan-at-black.org > # > Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 10:15:03 -0500 > # > > # > Holy buckets! $1000?!? And is that cell phones, cameras, or both? > # > > # > I don't usually like it when people are talking on cell phones in city > # > traffic, due to the fact that they are oblivious and either obstruct > # > traffic or even create dangerous situations. But on the open highway > # > with low traffic, I care a lot less. > # > > # > I even use mine in traffic on very rare occasions -- maybe a few times a > # > year for _very_ short calls ( traffic), and maybe a couple times per year > # for longer calls on the open > # > interstate. (I'd probably do it a little more often on interstate, > # > except that I just don't get out of town that often.) If I need to make > # > a call and there's a heavy traffic situation, I just pull off into a > # > parking lot or something to make/take the call. > # > > # > As much as I enjoy scenic and other recreational driving and hope it's > # > always an option, I'll admit it'll be nice when they get automated stuff > # > implemented for the "just get me to Point B" driving. (Others argue > # > that they already have that -- they call it "busses and trains". But > # > there isn't much of that beyond the big coastal cities.) > # > > # > Jim Blair said: > # > {- Can't hold onto it to aim while driving. It's a $1,000 fine now (Yes, > # big > # > {- brother IS watching!) > # > {- > # > {-> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 09:45:30 -0700 > # > {-> From: john-at-wagoneers.com > # > {-> To: carnuck-at-hotmail.com > # > {-> CC: mbalea-at-hotmail.com; fsj-at-digest.net; xj-at-digest.net > # > {-> Subject: RE: fsj: RE: [db] the next stage... cameras > # > {-> > # > {-> I like my treos, but their not flip phones... > # > {-> > # > {-> I have yet to see a camera phone that can take a decent picture... your > # > {- best > # > {-> bet is to buy a nice Digital camera... Panasonic/Lumix, Olympus, both > # make > # > {- nice > # > {-> units... lots of options, ALL better than a cell phone camera. :) > # > > # > > # - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > # -- > # > Long, long ago, before eruptions were invented, the molten lava > # > had to be carried down the mountainside, bucket by bucket, > # > and poured over the sleeping villagers. This took time. > # > -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org > # -------------- > # > # _________________________________________________________________ > # Talk to your Yahoo! Friends via Windows Live Messenger. Find out how. > # http://www.windowslive.com/explore/messenger?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_messenger_yaho > # o_082008 > # _________________________________________________________________ Get thousands of games on your PC, your mobile phone, and the web with Windows.. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/108588800/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 23:03:11 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: trusses, look a like benz, more adventures nick from the diesel-benz list dropped by to borrow a few tools to replace his high pressure seals... amazing how clean his engine is. his benz has leather seats, unheated, nicely tinted windows. http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2008/08-Aug-20-benzes-blazer-trusses/ALL.html picked up a few 24' long floor trusses, will use them to rebuild the carport. put the correct sized BFG long trails on the blazer today... funny, the blazer isn't as tall as it was. ;) heading over to ellensburg tomorrow to get the 4" exhaust and see the '94 chevy pickup with a 6.5L TD that will be heading to Bonneville next month to try for a world land speed record... :) john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold * SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL * * SAVE ELECTRICITY use Linux: http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf * http://wagoneers.com http://wagoneers.com/johns-vehicles.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 23:08:29 -0700 From: Jim Blair Subject: RE: fsj: RE: [db] the next stage... cameras The one that they are trying to ram through here in WA was sent back for rewording. They want hand held cellphones to become a primary reason now. I don't have the link handy, but it was posted on the cellphone site put on the list awhile ago. Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 > Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 09:06:50 -0700 > From: john-at-wagoneers.com > To: carnuck-at-hotmail.com > CC: dan-at-black.org; fsj-at-digest.net > Subject: RE: fsj: RE: [db] the next stage... cameras > > the law does not state that... > > but they can get you with distracted driving... > > If you read the RCW it specifically talks about communication devices, > and if I'm not mistaken, this is a secondary offense issue... meaning > you have to do something stupid like improper lane change, burned out > light, speeding, etc. before they can stop you for it... > > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > * SAVE FUEL use AMSOIL synthetics: http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL * > * SAVE ELECTRICITY use Linux: http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf * > http://wagoneers.com http://wagoneers.com/johns-vehicles.html > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > On Wed, 20 Aug 2008, Jim Blair wrote: > > # They are shooting for ANYTHING in your hand or on your dash, (like those CD > # players that aren't supposed to be seen by the driver) that could distract you > # from safe driving with their new upcoming laws. > # > # Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 > # > # > #> To: fsj-at-digest.net > #> Subject: Re: fsj: RE: [db] the next stage... cameras > #> From: dan-at-black.org > #> Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 10:15:03 -0500 > #> > #> Holy buckets! $1000?!? And is that cell phones, cameras, or both? > #> > #> I don't usually like it when people are talking on cell phones in city > #> traffic, due to the fact that they are oblivious and either obstruct > #> traffic or even create dangerous situations. But on the open highway > #> with low traffic, I care a lot less. > #> > #> I even use mine in traffic on very rare occasions -- maybe a few times a > #> year for _very_ short calls ( traffic), and maybe a couple times per year > # for longer calls on the open > #> interstate. (I'd probably do it a little more often on interstate, > #> except that I just don't get out of town that often.) If I need to make > #> a call and there's a heavy traffic situation, I just pull off into a > #> parking lot or something to make/take the call. > #> > #> As much as I enjoy scenic and other recreational driving and hope it's > #> always an option, I'll admit it'll be nice when they get automated stuff > #> implemented for the "just get me to Point B" driving. (Others argue > #> that they already have that -- they call it "busses and trains". But > #> there isn't much of that beyond the big coastal cities.) > #> > #> Jim Blair said: > #> {- Can't hold onto it to aim while driving. It's a $1,000 fine now (Yes, > # big > #> {- brother IS watching!) > #> {- > #> {-> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 09:45:30 -0700 > #> {-> From: john-at-wagoneers.com > #> {-> To: carnuck-at-hotmail.com > #> {-> CC: mbalea-at-hotmail.com; fsj-at-digest.net; xj-at-digest.net > #> {-> Subject: RE: fsj: RE: [db] the next stage... cameras > #> {-> > #> {-> I like my treos, but their not flip phones... > #> {-> > #> {-> I have yet to see a camera phone that can take a decent picture... your > #> {- best > #> {-> bet is to buy a nice Digital camera... Panasonic/Lumix, Olympus, both > # make > #> {- nice > #> {-> units... lots of options, ALL better than a cell phone camera. :) > #> > #> > # - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > # -- > #> Long, long ago, before eruptions were invented, the molten lava > #> had to be carried down the mountainside, bucket by bucket, > #> and poured over the sleeping villagers. This took time. > #> -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org > # -------------- > # > # _________________________________________________________________ > # Talk to your Yahoo! Friends via Windows Live Messenger. Find out how. > # http://www.windowslive.com/explore/messenger?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_messenger_yaho > # o_082008 > # _________________________________________________________________ See what people are saying about Windows Live. Check out featured posts. http://www.windowslive.com/connect?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_connect2_082008 ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #3157 **************************