From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Wed Sep 10 16:33:29 2008 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Wednesday, September 10 2008 Volume 01 : Number 3168 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: RE: [WJ-Grand] Amsoil fsj: Re: [db] electric motors RE: fsj: Re: electric motors RE: fsj: Re: [WJ-Grand] Amsoil fsj: Amsoil & Victor's WJ (fwd) fsj: j-10 Re: fsj: j-10 Re: fsj: Re: electric motors FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 11:49:20 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: RE: [WJ-Grand] Amsoil On Wed, 10 Sep 2008, Victor Jorge (vjorge) wrote: # Hi John, # Thanks for the response, what oil are you running in your WJ with # the 4.7L? That way I can see if my local speed shop has some or I could # work with you to purchase some from you to get it into my next oil # change to try this out. From your response, it seems that it is the way # to go. :-) # # Thanks, # Victor # I'm using: '99 WJ, 4.7: Signature Series 0W-30 100% Synthetic Motor Oil '91 300D, 2.5L TD: Series 3000 SAE 5W-30 Synthetic Heavy Duty Diesel Oil '94 K1500, 6.5L TD: SAE 15W-40 Heavy-Duty Diesel and Marine Motor Oil you can view specs and order on line through my website, http://www.AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 or call the toll free number 1-800-956-5695 please use customer number 283461 or you can buy it locally... I don't make very much on an oil change, something like $5 to $10, depending on how much someone buys... no plans on retiring and living off of this as an income source... every other month or so it gives me some lunch money. :) I try not to push it too hard on the lists, but with fuel prices the way they are it really helps... and protects your engine as well... it really does work and is a quality product. Anyway, when you get to the amsoil page, click on the MOTOR OIL or DIESEL OIL tabs in the upper left and you'll see a page describing the oils and prices. click on more and get all the details... you kind of have to read through some marketing fluff to get to the good stuff. ;) I can't remember what I put in my daughter's '97 XJ, I think she ended up with 10w40 that I had in the shop... her boyfriend is running either 0w30 or 5w30 in his sedan... If I keep the Blazer I may switch it over to the Series 3000 5w30 as well. The price difference isn't that much, around $3/qt to get the better stuff, the service range is a bit more with the better stuff, see below. 35,000 miles! The 4.7L V8 has done well with the 0w30. Here's one of the graphics on the oil performance: http://www.amsoil.com/graphs/sso_4ball_400px.gif interesting, just reading the specs on this oil: Service Life AMSOIL Signature Series 0W-30 Synthetic Motor Oil is recommended for extended drain intervals in unmodified(1), mechanically sound(2) gasoline fueled vehicles as follows: . Normal Service(3) . Up to 35,000 miles or one year, whichever comes first. . Severe Service(4) . Up to 17,500 miles or one year, whichever comes first. . Replace AMSOIL Ea oil filter at the time of oil change up to 25,000 miles or one year, whichever comes first (other brands at standard OEM* intervals). . In all non-gasoline fueled vehicle applications, extend the oil change interval according to oil analysis or follow the OEM* drain interval. If you warm up your vehicle everytime you drive it, then going longer than a year isn't a problem, it is recommended to change the filter though. The 5w30 Diesel oil I use says this: SERVICE LIFE AMSOIL Synthetic 5W-30 Heavy Duty Diesel Oil is recommended for extended drain intervals in unmodified(1), mechanically sound(2) vehicles or equipment as follows: Personal Light Truck Diesel or Gasoline Engine Service . Normal Service(3) . Up to 25,000 miles or one year, whichever comes first, or longer based on oil analysis. . Severe Service(4) . Up to 15,000 miles or one year, whichever comes first, or longer based on oil analysis. . Replace AMSOIL Ea. full flow oil filter at the time of oil change up to 25,000 miles (other brands at standard OEM* intervals). Decided to check on the 15w40 oil I've been using in my 6.2 and 6.5 Diesels, same mileage: and, check out this graph for the 15w40: http://www.amsoil.com/graphs/amepco_noack_2004.gif Any synthetic oil is an improvement over dino oil... lots of lesser priced synthetics on the shelf at most stores... may not offer extended drain intervals but in this day and age I suspect they won't be a problem and should have seal swelling agents and not turn to goo in an engine... :) Amsoil has been around since 1972. 'nuff said... I'm going out to see if I can fit WJ leather seats in my '91 300D... if I can, that Blazer is for sale... 3 days in that thing was enough for me... Kind of miss Omega, but with the vibrations caused by motor mounts, not much... the WJ is nice, but my '91 300D is the best ride in the drive, just a bit low to the ground. ;) Since we burned up our share of BioDiesel for the month I'll be forced to drive my benz to work until I collect more WVO. ;) life is rough, eh? :) feel free to ask any technical questions, happy to do some research on this kind of thing, and if you don't to buy from me, no hard feelings... I'm an amsoil dealer because it's a good product and I use it, not because I'm trying to get rich. I have a good day job. :) john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold SAVE fuel: use synthetics: http://www.AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 SAVE power: use LINUX: http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf http://wagoneers.com http://wagoneers.com/johns-vehicles.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- # ________________________________ # # From: WJ-Grand-at-yahoogroups.com [mailto:WJ-Grand-at-yahoogroups.com] On # Behalf Of john # Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 10:43 AM # To: WJ-Grand-at-yahoogroups.com # Subject: Re: [WJ-Grand] Amsoil # # # # On Wed, 10 Sep 2008, Victor Jorge (vjorge) wrote: # # # Hi John et al, # # I've been contemplating changing over to Amsoil, I have always heard # # good/great things about it, but I am fearing what I've experienced # long # # time ago when I went to Mobil 1 Synthetic. I slowly began developing # oil # # leaks to the point that I went back to dino oil and the leaks slowly # # stopped. I have this theory that Synthetic is so thin, that it will # # permeate through the gaskets, if not locked down tight, and it will # # leak. # # # # I have a WJ with 90k on the clock, not a drip of engine oil # # anywhere, and fear if I went to Amsoil synthetic that I would start # # seeping oil everywhere which is something I don't want to deal with. # # # # # # Thanks in advance, # # Victor # # # # Victor, et al. # # I've been an amsoil dealer since 1983. If you have a leak now, you'll # have a leak after switching... the thing is not that synthetic is # thinner, it clings, # so you see where it's leaking, dino oil goes away, runs off... # # amsoil has had seal swelling agents in their formulation for a long, # long # time... they started out in 1973... they've got it figured out. # # I have one mechanic friend that looked at the Series 2000 oil when it # first came out... looked a bit like ATF... he thought it was too thin # and that I wouldn't have any oil pressure in my 4.0L... he was wrong, I # had MORE oil pressure than before, and better mileage too! # # I have converted every vehicle I've kept for more than a month :) to # amsoil. several over 200,000 miles even, without trouble. # # my wj went from 18 mpg to almost 21 by switching over... # # my K1500 Blazer 6.5L Diesel just got 20.66 mpg in the mountains # after switching to amsoil and a few other mods, best before was # about 17 to 18 on a good day... # # hard to tell usually on a Diesel because I find I have more usuable # power, and drive quicker... losing the edge, but my 300D typically # gets around 28 to 30 mpg in town... epa rating is around 27 or so. # # so, as the eagles say, "get over it". or as nike says, just do it. # # I promise you that amsoil will not "seep" through the seals. # # You have to remember that when mobilone was developed initially # it was synthesized hydrocarbons... in other words they took dino # oil and made it all the same molecular size... they didn't do anything # to extend the drain interval like amsoil does, and I'm thinking they # didn't add seal swelling agents to their mix, so they would have leaked # if you had places to leak... # # I've got amsoil in my '91 300D, over 250,000 miles, no puddles # underneath, # never have to add oil.... oil changes have been 17,000, and 24,000! Oil # analysis indicates that the oil was still good when I pulled it out. # # I've got amsoil in my '99 WJ, have had since we bought it 3 years ago, # it's been to South Dakota twice, once in 100+ temps and once in snow... # no leaks, and it has over 153,000 miles on it... had 130,000 when we # got it.. # # I've got amsoil in my '94 Blazer with the 6.5L. Just drove it # about 1,000 miles up in BC in the mountains... no oil consumption # and 20.66 mpg. # # I've even got amsoil in my lawnmower... :) and chainsaw... # # so, don't worry... but one thing you may need to do is change the filter # after a few thousand miles, the synthetic will tend to clean up any # junk in there, especially if you've been using some of those nasty dino # oils... # # john # ----- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 11:50:28 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: [db] electric motors ah yes, well then, come on over I need help upgrading the snohomish monster garage, picked up five free 24' long trusses!!! :) and it's NOT raining today! yee haw... but first, will those wj seats fit in my 124 series 300D? :) john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold SAVE fuel: use synthetics: http://www.AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 SAVE power: use LINUX: http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf http://wagoneers.com http://wagoneers.com/johns-vehicles.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Wed, 10 Sep 2008, Jim Hoffman wrote: # Why would I give money to "stop" you from building more vehicles? # This entertainment is free!!!!!! # # ;) # # Jim # # --- On Wed, 9/10/08, john wrote: # # > From: john # > Subject: Re: [db] electric motors # > To: "Jim Hoffman" # > Cc: "diesel-benz list" # > Date: Wednesday, September 10, 2008, 12:44 PM # > my we should just take a donation and I can go and buy a new # > factory # > Diesel equipped 4x4 that isn't as big as a barge, long # > as a freight train # > and has an automatic and heated leather seats... and a/c of # > course... ;) # > # > otherwise, keep the popcorn handy... :) # > # > ----- # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't # > rust, they mold # > SAVE fuel: use synthetics: # > http://www.AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 # > SAVE power: use LINUX: http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf # > http://wagoneers.com # > http://wagoneers.com/johns-vehicles.html # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- # > # > # > On Wed, 10 Sep 2008, Jim Hoffman wrote: # > # > # # > # > or maybe someone willing to trade an Automatic # > 300GD for my # > # > '83 J10 Stepside # > # > and save me the trouble of building another Diesel # > powered # > # > rig. :) # > # # > # Save you?!?! SAVE YOU?!?! I don't know about # > everyone else but "I" # > # think it's a little late for that!!! # > # # > # ;) # > # # > # Jim # > # # ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 11:42:08 -0700 From: Jim Blair Subject: RE: fsj: Re: electric motors I already had my electric motor brackets mocked up (the motor will set me back -at-$500 last I checked plus I'll need the controllers) on the NV241OR for my '84 J10. You don't want the electric motor mounted straight to the diff, although this would cut down on angular loss through the driveshaft (especially if lifted) The Mercedes transmission will NOT survive long term reverse driving because the pump will last only so long. You might be better to try a small diesel generator and replace the extra weight of drivetrain with electric batteries. With the new solar panels coming (including a paint on coating that can produce solar electric) charging your car will become as simple as parking it in the light. Inductive chargers (like those used now for electric toothbrushes) would be better at businesses that could use the scavenging effect of running the power cable for machinery through the parking lot and the resultant EMP magnetic field currently (no pun intended) wasted into the air or soil could become useful. Want to get an idea how much is wasted? Find somewhere under a main power transmission line that you can park and get out. If you have an FSJ with chrome trim, lightly run your finger along it while not touching the car anywhere else. You'll get a lovely zap feeling (How much depends on your body's ability to pass power and the moisture content of the air and temperature) One of my old neighbors had an electric fence circuit set up under the powerlines. The power he scavenged from the "air" ran everything in his home (he used a regulated charger into car batteries with an inverter) until the power company got wise (after some 20+ years) and sued him into bankruptcy, forcing him from the place. None of the newspapers here ran the story. He even talked to "The Stranger" here in Seattle and they wouldn't run it. Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 > Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 10:29:22 -0700 > From: john-at-wagoneers.com > To: carnuck-at-hotmail.com > CC: proj96xj-at-bellsouth.net; diesel-benz-at-digest.net; fsj-at-digest.net > Subject: RE: fsj: Re: electric motors > > the idea is not to have a transfer case... > > straight 2wd mercedes engine/trans, with an electric motor on the front axle... > > the transmission could free wheel in neutral... the mercedes transmissions > have a rear pump so no damage would result in motoring around at 30 to 45 mph > in electric mode... would be some parasitic losses, but not that much > more than moving 4,500lbs of FSJ and driver about. > > if I go with a transfer case I'll scratch the idea of the electric motor... > > john _________________________________________________________________ Get more out of the Web. Learn 10 hidden secrets of Windows Live. http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!550 F681DAD532637!5295.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_domore_092008 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 12:03:22 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: RE: fsj: Re: [WJ-Grand] Amsoil wrong, when Mobil1 came out in the LATE 70's it was a synthesized hydrocarbon, reformulated dino oil... I remember reading about it and buying it... I may still have the articles... if you can help me find them in my office. ;) They talked about making oil better... it wasn't designed initially for extended drain intervals. One advantage they found was they needed fewer VI extenders, (viscosity index improvers - used to make oil consistent over wider temps... typically this breaks down quickly and you end up with a heavier oil in the crankcase... it also can be bad in a Diesel, that's why 10w40 is not to be used in most Diesels... the vi improvers deposit on the rings causing damage...) Mobil1 didn't go to a true synthetic base (polyol or dibasic acid esthers) until a few years ago... Castrol didn't come out with one until even later... I don't know the exact date, but can make a call and find out if it's important. ;) none of the petro companies synthetics were formulated for extended drain intervals. but regardless, any synthesized/reformulated hydrocarbon, or true synthetic made from synthetic base stock, is better than dino oil, mainly for the reason that Mobil1 promoted in the late '70s, uniform molecular size... it permits better filtration and even lubrication... in addition the synthetics tend to have an electrical attraction to metal and "cling", reducing startup wear and even providing lubrication if you lose your oil pan or filter... my '80 Olds with a 5.7L Diesel was driven 2 miles up hill with NO oil in the crankcase and survived because of this princple! My wife was dropping the kids off at a neighbor's and something at the construction site there came up and smacked the oil filter, drained the pan... I've heard numerous stories about amsoil customers losing a radiator and driving hundreds of miles to get home with only the oil as a coolant... synthetics and bioDiesel... a cure for the common oilwell syndrome. ;) the base stock for synthetics typically come from corn or soybeans but can also be made from coal or other stuff, including petroleum... the main benefit of amsoil is the extended oil drain... 35,000 miles! I've gone over 20,000 miles on both gas and Diesel, and had oil analysis confirm that I could have gone longer!!! saving money is the motivation... ease of maintenance another... and protection against failure of cooling or lube systems is another... then there is the "green" factor... saving oil and fuel... it's ALL good! john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold SAVE fuel: use synthetics: http://www.AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 SAVE power: use LINUX: http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf http://wagoneers.com http://wagoneers.com/johns-vehicles.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Wed, 10 Sep 2008, Jim Blair wrote: # # Originally Mobil 1 was a true synthetic, but after Castrol came out with the modified Hydrocarbon from natural base oil, there was a lawsuit about the definition of synthetic. Mobil lost (there was a huge writeup on the lawsuit online back in '99) and they switched to the same modified oil base, which is why the cost of synthetic oil dropped so drastically in the past few years. # Amsoil is one of only a handful of true synthetic oils still being produced. # # Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 # ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 14:12:09 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: Amsoil & Victor's WJ (fwd) victor, one of my buddies on the fsj/xj list sent this... don't have your offlist email, good info... john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold SAVE fuel: use synthetics: http://www.AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 SAVE power: use LINUX: http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf http://wagoneers.com http://wagoneers.com/johns-vehicles.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Colucci B Greetings John! Forward this off to your friend Victor in the WJ Group. Greetings Victor! I have been using Amsoil for the last ten years, and actually started using the 0W30 before John did. I started running that blend when it was introduced in my 89 Grand Wagoneer's 360. The performance improvement and mileage boost made me a believer immediately. It is the only blend of Amsoil I run in my gas powered truck & car engines. I was concerned about running it in big V8 motors due to its light weight consistency, so I telephoned Amsoil and spoke with them at length about the product. Their engineers assured me that this blend was superior for any size gasoline engine. I have yet to be disappointed in their recommendation on that point. I have run the 0W30 in several high mileage Jeep 4 litres, and I did switch over the 4.7 in my late WJ to the 0W30. There was 110k on the clock of the WJ when I did the switch. The previous owner had used dino oil from the cheapo discount lube express shops for years. I could not believe the increased performance I got from the 4.7 in the WJ after about 5000 miles, plus the fuel economy improved as well. There were no leaks to be found. You could park that truck on a white sheet without fear. I had 120k on it when it went to the big jeep lot in the sky. The biggest engine I have used that 0W30 in was the 5.9 litre 32 valve v8 in my Lincoln Navigator. I had the same results with that engine as well. better mileage and a more lively engine. One time I had the truck in at the stealership and they ran a courtesy battery test on the charging system. I was familiar with this test and the equipment used for the test, since I have worked in a past life in auto service departments. Their test said I needed to replace the 5 year old battery in the Navigator, because it had inferior cranking amperage. They ran the test three times with the same results. The last time I was present for the test. The thing that they could not understand was why the test said my battery was toast, yet the engine would crank over like a scalded chicken, even though the out side air temp was below 20 degrees. I told them sure the results were correct for a normal engine with dino oil in it, but the superior flow characteristics of Amsoil allowed the engine to crank with ease since there was little resistance from thickened oil. I drove the truck two more years on the same battery and never had a starting issue. Here is another story for you. My wife has an 04 PT Cruiser with the 4 cylinder non turbo engine. Chrysler has published a bulletin on this engine that it is normal for the engine to use a quart of oil every 1000 miles. Normal? EEEKKK! Well We purchased this car new and it now has over 50,000 miles on it. I switched it over to Amsoil at 10,000 miles. I wanted to ensure that the engine was broken in, although that is not necessary according to Amsoil representatives. This car now uses a quart of oil every 6000 miles. I change the oil every 25,000 miles. There you have it. Buy the stuff I think you will come to love it as well. Until the next dimension, Admiral "Coluch." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 16:04:51 -0700 From: "Tesar Landon-R16884" Subject: fsj: j-10 guess I'm gonna have to go look at this one.... http://austin.craigslist.org/cto/828758008.html what transfer case on 1980 with 4-spd, D20? - - Landon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 16:07:44 -0700 From: Kevin Subject: Re: fsj: j-10 Nah. 80 is driver's drop, which would make it a new process case. 208 maybe? On Wed, Sep 10, 2008 at 04:04:51PM -0700, Tesar Landon-R16884 wrote: > guess I'm gonna have to go look at this one.... > > http://austin.craigslist.org/cto/828758008.html > > what transfer case on 1980 with 4-spd, D20? > > - Landon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 19:22:26 -0400 From: "Neal Hoover" Subject: Re: fsj: Re: electric motors the rear locking hubs would make it a bit of a hassle to switch from electric mode to conventional mode while driving. ;) Neal A. Hoover Project '76 J-10 Project '96 XJ http://community.webshots.com/user/proj96xj - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Blair" To: "Neal Hoover" ; "local Jeep list" Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 1:03 PM Subject: RE: fsj: Re: electric motors NP208 will allow you to do that. If it's in 2wd, the front driveshaft is freewheeling. Part of why I was looking into doing that with mine, but lack of money and time has been keeping me from following through (especially since I'm working 12 hour days now 6 days a week) Having locking hubs on the rear axle (MUCH easier to do with full floaters) will enable you not to turn the other mass of axles and diff at the same time. Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 > From: proj96xj-at-bellsouth.net > To: john-at-wagoneers.com; fsj-at-digest.net > Subject: fsj: Re: electric motors > Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 06:53:01 -0400 > > you'd also have to have a method of disengaging one system while the other > system is operational. you don't want to drive the internals of that tranny > by the rear wheels whilst trucking around on electrical power. > > Neal A. Hoover > Project '76 J-10 > Project '96 XJ > http://community.webshots.com/user/proj96xj > _________________________________________________________________ Want to do more with Windows Live? Learn ^S10 hidden secrets^T from Jamie. http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!550F681DAD532637!5295.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_domore_092008 ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #3168 **************************