From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Tue Nov 11 15:59:30 2008 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Tuesday, November 11 2008 Volume 01 : Number 3197 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: adventures with engines fsj: 3.1L Turbo Diesel in a WJ? fsj: Re: xj: RE: 3.1L Turbo Diesel in a WJ? fsj: RE: Re: xj: RE: 3.1L Turbo Diesel in a WJ? fsj: RE: Re: xj: RE: 3.1L Turbo Diesel in a WJ? fsj: '88-91 grille? Re: fsj: '88-91 grille? Re: fsj: '88-91 grille? Re: fsj: '88-91 grille? Re: fsj: '88-91 grille? Re: fsj: '88-91 grille? fsj: Re: xj: RE: 3.1L Turbo Diesel in a WJ? FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 17:03:13 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: fsj: adventures with engines I have an offer in on a '99 WJ with a dead engine... started checking around for a new 4.7L V8... wrecking yards are wanting $2,500 or more for them... So I called a few places... $3,056; $3,720 and $6,395... core of $445 to 800! Oh, the good news is that at the Jeep dealer (the most expensive) has a 300,000 mile warranty. :) Even wholesale pricing doesn't help a great deal... very little discount at the McParts stores, biggest saving was at the Jeep dealer, but not enough to make me buy it there. ;) Looks I'll be shopping for a used motor or just rebuilding this one if I get the WJ, will know on Wednesday... or better... go with my original "dream" and put a Diesel in it... :) I could buy another '91 300D for what the engine costs! Talked to the parts guy at the Jeep dealer about why these 4.7's go bad... my hunch about motor oil being the issue with the 4.7L V8 is what's going on. He said they HAVE to have their oil changed every 3,000 miles or they sludge up... I told him I run AMSOIL Synthetics and easily go 20,000 miles on mine and it's still clean... I kind of suspected the valve train issue in the 4.7 was oil related, Jeep had this same issue with the 230 back when the Wagoneer was introduced in 1962. :) So, the morale of the story, if you have a newer engine, either change the oil VERY often, like no more than 3,000 miles or run Amsoil Synthetics... john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com/fotos/fotomeister/ SAVE power, use LINUX: http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf SAVE yourself: http://freegift.com SAVE fuel, use synthetics: http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 23:47:04 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: fsj: 3.1L Turbo Diesel in a WJ? I was looking through a factory shop manual for the '99 WJ and stumbled upon the 3.1L 5 cylinder turbo Diesel... say what? http://wagoneers.com/WJ/tech/Factory_Service_WJ_1999.pdf anyone in Europe know anything about this? What kind of controller does it use? could I adapt a Mercedes 2.5 or 3.0 to work with this thing??? :) Does it use the 45RFE? considering the price of a replacement 4.7L V8, this might be economically feasible... well, feasible if I sell my Blazer, my Panel, my coin collection... and win the lottery... :) john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com/fotos/fotomeister/ SAVE power, use LINUX: http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf SAVE yourself: http://freegift.com SAVE fuel, use synthetics: http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 08:14:25 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: xj: RE: 3.1L Turbo Diesel in a WJ? Vince, What country are you in? I can start searching for parts and info there. The 5 speed auto is the 545RFE, it's basically the 45RFE with an extra gear, I believe it's the same case. The VM engines aren't as desired, but they're better than the Renault 2.1L TD I had in my 85 XJ. :) the 2.7 CRD would be my first choice, is that the one they put in the sprinters? Sounds like the RFE trans was mated to a number of Diesels... this is promising at that level... but finding one and all the computers will be a challenge. Biggest issue for me will be making all the computers work on the WJ. If I can make the gauges and speedo, climate control and lights and such work with a Mercedes Diesel and AT mated to the Jeep xfr case I'll be happy. will find out tomorrow if I will be working on this project.... john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com/fotos/fotomeister/ SAVE power, use LINUX: http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf SAVE yourself: http://freegift.com SAVE fuel, use synthetics: http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Tue, 11 Nov 2008, Vincent Bentley wrote: # The 3.1L diesel is a VM engine. I am sure it was a 5 cylinder based on the # European XJ's 2.5TDi VM engine. It was not a popular choice with new Jeep # buyers. However, the MB powered 2.7CRD quickly became the most commonly seen # WG as this engine was far better and comparable to the V8. # # We have a VM 2.8CRD in a 4-door Wrangler, it has a 5-speed Auto and I am # fairly sure it is the same transmission that was in our European WJ(WG) 4.7L # V8. # # -Vince- # # -----Original Message----- # From: owner-xj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-xj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of john # Sent: 11 November 2008 08:47 # To: full size jeep list; diesel-benz list; WJ-Grand-at-yahoogroups.com; # ABCvoice-at-worldnet.att.net; David Ashby; xj-list # Subject: xj: 3.1L Turbo Diesel in a WJ? # # I was looking through a factory shop manual for the '99 WJ and stumbled upon # the 3.1L 5 cylinder turbo Diesel... say what? # http://wagoneers.com/WJ/tech/Factory_Service_WJ_1999.pdf # # anyone in Europe know anything about this? # # What kind of controller does it use? could I adapt a Mercedes 2.5 or 3.0 to # work # with this thing??? :) # # Does it use the 45RFE? # # considering the price of a replacement 4.7L V8, this might be economically # feasible... # well, feasible if I sell my Blazer, my Panel, my coin collection... # and win the lottery... :) # # john # # ----- # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # http://wagoneers.com/fotos/fotomeister/ # SAVE power, use LINUX: http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf # SAVE yourself: http://freegift.com # SAVE fuel, use synthetics: http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 08:39:00 -0800 From: "Joe Hughes" Subject: fsj: RE: Re: xj: RE: 3.1L Turbo Diesel in a WJ? It's my understanding that the 545RFE and 45RFE are the same transmission with different programming to enable the 5th forward gear. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysler_45RFE_transmission Joe H. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of john Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 8:14 AM To: xj-at-digest.net Cc: WJ-Grand-at-yahoogroups.com; full size jeep list; diesel-benz list; David Ashby; ABCvoice-at-worldnet.att.net Subject: fsj: Re: xj: RE: 3.1L Turbo Diesel in a WJ? Vince, What country are you in? I can start searching for parts and info there. The 5 speed auto is the 545RFE, it's basically the 45RFE with an extra gear, I believe it's the same case. The VM engines aren't as desired, but they're better than the Renault 2.1L TD I had in my 85 XJ. :) the 2.7 CRD would be my first choice, is that the one they put in the sprinters? Sounds like the RFE trans was mated to a number of Diesels... this is promising at that level... but finding one and all the computers will be a challenge. Biggest issue for me will be making all the computers work on the WJ. If I can make the gauges and speedo, climate control and lights and such work with a Mercedes Diesel and AT mated to the Jeep xfr case I'll be happy. will find out tomorrow if I will be working on this project.... john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com/fotos/fotomeister/ SAVE power, use LINUX: http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf SAVE yourself: http://freegift.com SAVE fuel, use synthetics: http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Tue, 11 Nov 2008, Vincent Bentley wrote: # The 3.1L diesel is a VM engine. I am sure it was a 5 cylinder based on the # European XJ's 2.5TDi VM engine. It was not a popular choice with new Jeep # buyers. However, the MB powered 2.7CRD quickly became the most commonly seen # WG as this engine was far better and comparable to the V8. # # We have a VM 2.8CRD in a 4-door Wrangler, it has a 5-speed Auto and I am # fairly sure it is the same transmission that was in our European WJ(WG) 4.7L # V8. # # -Vince- # # -----Original Message----- # From: owner-xj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-xj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of john # Sent: 11 November 2008 08:47 # To: full size jeep list; diesel-benz list; WJ-Grand-at-yahoogroups.com; # ABCvoice-at-worldnet.att.net; David Ashby; xj-list # Subject: xj: 3.1L Turbo Diesel in a WJ? # # I was looking through a factory shop manual for the '99 WJ and stumbled upon # the 3.1L 5 cylinder turbo Diesel... say what? # http://wagoneers.com/WJ/tech/Factory_Service_WJ_1999.pdf # # anyone in Europe know anything about this? # # What kind of controller does it use? could I adapt a Mercedes 2.5 or 3.0 to # work # with this thing??? :) # # Does it use the 45RFE? # # considering the price of a replacement 4.7L V8, this might be economically # feasible... # well, feasible if I sell my Blazer, my Panel, my coin collection... # and win the lottery... :) # # john # # ----- # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # http://wagoneers.com/fotos/fotomeister/ # SAVE power, use LINUX: http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf # SAVE yourself: http://freegift.com # SAVE fuel, use synthetics: http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 09:05:43 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: fsj: RE: Re: xj: RE: 3.1L Turbo Diesel in a WJ? guess the next question will be what Diesels can mate to this and what computer signals are required to operate the trans? This wiki page has a lot of useful info on it... :) thanx Joe! john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com/fotos/fotomeister/ SAVE power, use LINUX: http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf SAVE yourself: http://freegift.com SAVE fuel, use synthetics: http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Tue, 11 Nov 2008, Joe Hughes wrote: # It's my understanding that the 545RFE and 45RFE are the same transmission # with different programming to enable the 5th forward gear. # # http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysler_45RFE_transmission # # Joe H. # # -----Original Message----- # From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of john # Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 8:14 AM # To: xj-at-digest.net # Cc: WJ-Grand-at-yahoogroups.com; full size jeep list; diesel-benz list; David # Ashby; ABCvoice-at-worldnet.att.net # Subject: fsj: Re: xj: RE: 3.1L Turbo Diesel in a WJ? # # Vince, # # What country are you in? I can start searching for parts and info there. # # The 5 speed auto is the 545RFE, it's basically the 45RFE with an extra gear, # I believe it's the same case. # # The VM engines aren't as desired, but they're better than the Renault 2.1L # TD # I had in my 85 XJ. :) # # the 2.7 CRD would be my first choice, is that the one they put in the # sprinters? # # Sounds like the RFE trans was mated to a number of Diesels... this is # promising # at that level... but finding one and all the computers will be a challenge. # # Biggest issue for me will be making all the computers work on the WJ. If I # can make the gauges and speedo, climate control and lights and such work # with a Mercedes Diesel and AT mated to the Jeep xfr case I'll be happy. # # will find out tomorrow if I will be working on this project.... # # john # # ----- # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # http://wagoneers.com/fotos/fotomeister/ # SAVE power, use LINUX: http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf # SAVE yourself: http://freegift.com # SAVE fuel, use synthetics: http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # # # On Tue, 11 Nov 2008, Vincent Bentley wrote: # # # The 3.1L diesel is a VM engine. I am sure it was a 5 cylinder based on # the # # European XJ's 2.5TDi VM engine. It was not a popular choice with new Jeep # # buyers. However, the MB powered 2.7CRD quickly became the most commonly # seen # # WG as this engine was far better and comparable to the V8. # # # # We have a VM 2.8CRD in a 4-door Wrangler, it has a 5-speed Auto and I am # # fairly sure it is the same transmission that was in our European WJ(WG) # 4.7L # # V8. # # # # -Vince- # # # # -----Original Message----- # # From: owner-xj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-xj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of john # # Sent: 11 November 2008 08:47 # # To: full size jeep list; diesel-benz list; WJ-Grand-at-yahoogroups.com; # # ABCvoice-at-worldnet.att.net; David Ashby; xj-list # # Subject: xj: 3.1L Turbo Diesel in a WJ? # # # # I was looking through a factory shop manual for the '99 WJ and stumbled # upon # # the 3.1L 5 cylinder turbo Diesel... say what? # # http://wagoneers.com/WJ/tech/Factory_Service_WJ_1999.pdf # # # # anyone in Europe know anything about this? # # # # What kind of controller does it use? could I adapt a Mercedes 2.5 or 3.0 # to # # work # # with this thing??? :) # # # # Does it use the 45RFE? # # # # considering the price of a replacement 4.7L V8, this might be # economically # # feasible... # # well, feasible if I sell my Blazer, my Panel, my coin collection... # # and win the lottery... :) # # # # john # # # # ----- # # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # # Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # # http://wagoneers.com/fotos/fotomeister/ # # SAVE power, use LINUX: http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf # # SAVE yourself: http://freegift.com # # SAVE fuel, use synthetics: http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 # # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # # # ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 11:12:26 CST From: Dan Black Subject: fsj: '88-91 grille? Anybody have a spare, good '88-91 grille? It's the main big piece that I need, though I may end up needing a left headlight bezel, too. Hit a deer last night on the edge of town -- probably slowed down to 25mph or less when I hit it. I've been driving almost 20 years in deer country, and this was actually the first I've hit. Pushed the foglight into the grille a bit, small bend in the bumper, and apparently flexed the front left quarterpanel a bit, because there's a small bend and freshly flaked-off paint just above the wheel. Otherwise, might be time to switch to a '68-69 grille. ;) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "RAM DISK" is not an installation procedure! - -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 11:22:03 CST From: Dan Black Subject: Re: fsj: '88-91 grille? Dan Black said: {- Anybody have a spare, good '88-91 grille? It's the main big piece that {- I need, though I may end up needing a left headlight bezel, too. Sorry, I meant to say '86-91. They should all be the same. (Mine's an '88.) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- He said I'm crazy, I know; He said I'm crazy, I know All I can say is that the drugs don't work no more -- The Vincent Black Shadow - -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 09:48:44 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: '88-91 grille? what happened to all those grilles you got from me at Ouray? :) ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com/fotos/fotomeister/ SAVE power, use LINUX: http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf SAVE yourself: http://freegift.com SAVE fuel, use synthetics: http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Tue, 11 Nov 2008, Dan Black wrote: # Anybody have a spare, good '88-91 grille? It's the main big piece that # I need, though I may end up needing a left headlight bezel, too. # # Hit a deer last night on the edge of town -- probably slowed down to # 25mph or less when I hit it. I've been driving almost 20 years in deer # country, and this was actually the first I've hit. # # Pushed the foglight into the grille a bit, small bend in the bumper, and # apparently flexed the front left quarterpanel a bit, because there's a # small bend and freshly flaked-off paint just above the wheel. # # Otherwise, might be time to switch to a '68-69 grille. ;) # # ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- # "RAM DISK" is not an installation procedure! # -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- # ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 12:47:53 CST From: Dan Black Subject: Re: fsj: '88-91 grille? john said: {- what happened to all those grilles you got from me at Ouray? :) {- On Tue, 11 Nov 2008, Dan Black wrote: {- # Otherwise, might be time to switch to a '68-69 grille. ;) Well, that's two of them. Hence my comment. The other two were different years -- neither of them '86-91 -- and have more broken parts than the '88 after hitting the deer. The idea is that I'd like an intact one from the correct series; otherwise, I'll switch to the '68-69. Though I think I might have to get round headlight buckets (and headlights) then -- not sure. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ...do it now. There may be a law against it tomorrow. -- Laurence Peter - -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 11:05:15 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: '88-91 grille? I may have a set of round buckets... sorting out parts as I rebuild my shop... :) john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com/fotos/fotomeister/ SAVE power, use LINUX: http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf SAVE yourself: http://freegift.com SAVE fuel, use synthetics: http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Tue, 11 Nov 2008, Dan Black wrote: # john said: # {- what happened to all those grilles you got from me at Ouray? :) # # {- On Tue, 11 Nov 2008, Dan Black wrote: # {- # Otherwise, might be time to switch to a '68-69 grille. ;) # # Well, that's two of them. Hence my comment. # # The other two were different years -- neither of them '86-91 -- and have # more broken parts than the '88 after hitting the deer. # # The idea is that I'd like an intact one from the correct series; # otherwise, I'll switch to the '68-69. Though I think I might have to # get round headlight buckets (and headlights) then -- not sure. # # ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- # ...do it now. There may be a law against it tomorrow. # -- Laurence Peter # -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- # ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 11:14:38 -0800 (PST) From: Greg Loxtercamp Subject: Re: fsj: '88-91 grille? I've got a Rhino grill, round buckets and new halogen round bulbs. I don't have the access hole covers. I don't see myself ever using these, so these are available if anyone want's to make a conversion. Greg ________________________________ From: john To: Dan Black Cc: Full Size Jeeps Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 1:05:15 PM Subject: Re: fsj: '88-91 grille? I may have a set of round buckets... sorting out parts as I rebuild my shop... :) john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com/fotos/fotomeister/ SAVE power, use LINUX: http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf SAVE yourself: http://freegift.com SAVE fuel, use synthetics: http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Tue, 11 Nov 2008, Dan Black wrote: # john said: # {- what happened to all those grilles you got from me at Ouray? :) # # {- On Tue, 11 Nov 2008, Dan Black wrote: # {- # Otherwise, might be time to switch to a '68-69 grille. ;) # # Well, that's two of them. Hence my comment. # # The other two were different years -- neither of them '86-91 -- and have # more broken parts than the '88 after hitting the deer. # # The idea is that I'd like an intact one from the correct series; # otherwise, I'll switch to the '68-69. Though I think I might have to # get round headlight buckets (and headlights) then -- not sure. # # ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- # ...do it now. There may be a law against it tomorrow. # -- Laurence Peter # -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- # ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 15:58:44 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: xj: RE: 3.1L Turbo Diesel in a WJ? Someone wrote an article about the Diesel WJ a few years back, and it had NONE of this kind of info... this is great stuff! Thanx Darren! I've been looking through the wiring diagrams and connectors and am thinking that the wiring up of a Diesel into a WJ may not be all that bad. There are a few systems I may need to learn about to "dummy up", possibly things like MAP sensors and such, but we'll see. the 45RFE that I have should mate up to these engines: * 45RFE o 1999.2000 Jeep Grand Cherokee (4.7L) o 2000-2002 Dodge Dakota (4.7L) o 2000-2002 Dodge Durango (4.7L) o 2002 Dodge Ram 1500 (3.7L and 4.7L) * 545RFE o 2001. Jeep Grand Cherokee (4.7L, 4.7L H.O., 5.7L Hemi) o 2002-2007 Jeep Liberty (2002-early 2003 3.7L, and all diesel applications) o 2003. Dodge Ram (3.7L, 4.7L, 5.7L Hemi) o 2003. Dodge Dakota (4.7L, 4.7L H.O.) o 2003- Dodge Durango (4.7L, 5.7L) o 2006- Jeep Commander (4.7L, 5.7L Hemi) the 545RFE is just a reprogrammed/geared version of the 45RFE. I stumbled upon a site that has connector info, grabbed some of the info. Same kind of thing you'd find in the wiring diagrams... nothing extraordinary, but may be useful... http://wagoneers.com/WJ/tech/WIRING/ Tomorrow we find out if I'm saddled with the WJ project... the costs of a rebuilt engine is major... finding a used engine is dicey... Going Diesel seems to be a great idea and possibly not as overwhelming as I first thought... :) Stephen R. on your XJ VM Motori Diesel are there any sensors going into your wiring harness? thanx, john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://wagoneers.com/fotos/fotomeister/ SAVE power, use LINUX: http://johnmeister.com/tmcp.pdf SAVE yourself: http://freegift.com SAVE fuel, use synthetics: http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Tue, 11 Nov 2008, Darren K. Page wrote: Some Google exercices: Site 1: Impressive mileage: : "3.1-LITRE TURBO DIESEL With a third of Jeep Grand Cherokee sales in Europe featuring diesel powerplants, the all-new 3.1-litre Turbo Diesel engine, is a significant option for drivers keen to use the massive pulling power of a diesel unit for the toughest off-road jobs such as towing trailers, caravans and horseboxes. The 3.1 TD, built at VM Motors in Cento, Italy, is the first ever diesel-engined Jeep to be fitted with an automatic transmission as standard, and can tow loads of up to 3500 kg. The beefy five cylinder 3125 cc Turbo Diesel is smoothly responsive, marrying power, economy and civilised on-road use, to storming off-road capability thanks to its massive 283 lb ft of torque, and a power rating of 138 bhp at 3600 rpm. None of which does anything to diminish the diesel's forecourt-shy economy. Driving more than 700 miles on a tank of fuel is a feat for any car. But the Turbo Diesel Jeep Grand Cherokee will do just that. This is no idle marketing boast, as a 3.1-litre Turbo Diesel travelled all the way from Dover to the North East of Scotland on just one tank of fuel, averaging a miserly 43 mpg, and covering 735 miles (1,176 kilometres) on 78 litres. That works out at an average 42.86 mpg or 6.63 l/100 km. Official economy figures show the Turbo Diesel returns 29.1 mpg extra urban, 24.1 mpg combined, and 19.5 mpg urban cycle. To minimise noise and vibration, the diesel engine, transmission and transfer case include a set of interconnecting steel struts similar to those used in the 4.0-litre petrol engine. These struts increase the natural vibration frequency of the assembly, which removes a source of annoying vibration. The vibration is further reduced thanks to a new direct-mount air conditioning compressor, as well as improvements to the compact alternator and power steering brackets. A single serpentine belt with automatic tensioner drives all the engine-mounted accessories, which reduces peak bearing loads for quieter operation. Steve Gray, General Manager Marketing for Chrysler and Jeep says: "Now it is possible to have all of the benefits of the diesel engine with the sophistication and ease of operation of automatic transmission." >From above, tranny reference 1: *** "The 3.1-litre Turbo Diesel is partnered with a thoroughly re-engineered version of the 44RE electronically controlled four-speed transmission," *** Site 2: The 3.0 V6 uses a Mercedes W5A580 automatic transmission, food for thought John? Darren Page -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 2:47 AM Subject: xj: 3.1L Turbo Diesel in a WJ? I was looking through a factory shop manual for the '99 WJ and stumbled upon the 3.1L 5 cylinder turbo Diesel... say what? http://wagoneers.com/WJ/tech/Factory_Service_WJ_1999.pdf ----- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #3197 **************************