From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Wed Feb 18 17:05:26 2009 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Thursday, February 19 2009 Volume 01 : Number 3268 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: fsj: axle donor found :) fsj: Re: snohomish monster carport update (fwd) fsj: have tape measure... fsj: dirty gas because of ethanol? Re: fsj: dirty gas because of ethanol? fsj: my axles have arrived... fsj: axles for the cj-10a arrived FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 16:43:10 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: axle donor found :) I'm thinking that the axle swap makes the most sense... I'll put the axles that are on the cj-10 on the GW to keep it mobile... and will look for another set. yes, that is the smoothest 360 I've heard yet... it will be a nice addition to the panel. need to get my T-18 up from centralia... not sure what I'll need to do to mate it to the dana 20 though... it's mated to an np208 now. might be swapping the interior with a local fsj type who has a tan interior and took a liking to the maroon... whatever I do will be to maximize the return on investment of parts, minimize waste and loss... if I come out of it with three fully functional jeeps all the better. :) ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://freegift.com http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Tue, 17 Feb 2009, Dan Black wrote: # diesel john said: # {- #1 - cj-10a mini - swap GW axles on, build a small box... # {- #2 - move 3.3L Diesel into GW, cut back off... make into 4dr GW pickup... # {- #3 - move the CJ-10 cab and drivetrain to GW frame, build flatbed... # # {- not sure if I'm really going to sacrifice this GW yet... it has # {- the smoothest running 360 I've ever seen, feels light and nimble... # {- has a broken xfr case... trading a toughbook, tires and some cash for it... # {- # {- http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/rigs/1985-GrandWagoneer-axle-donor/ALL.html # {- # {- I'm thinking #1 is the best plan... but may come up with more axles, # {- the guy with the GW has another set as well... if he does I may # {- turn this into #2 # {- http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/rigs/1986-CJ10A/cj-10a-ideas.html # {- # {- I've had 25 Full Size jeeps, this will be #26. Have only had two that # {- felt this nice... # # Umm, with one that nice, especially if it "feels nice" and "light and # nimble", you should go for option #4: Replace the transfer case on this # one, fix the headliner, and keep it as it is! (And buy another to do # your FrankenJeep.) # # For one thing, if you talk about a 360 feeling right, there must be # something pretty good about it. ;) # # For another thing, the interior is in nice shape (except for the # headliner, and the back seat looks a little rough, but not torn yet), # the exterior is also pretty good (except for those little drooping bits # of the trim... and the roof's a bit faded, but most people wouldn't see # that), and it's got the cool under-armor bits. # # The tires look a little small, though... Must be stock size. ;) # # ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- # Politicians, like underwear, should be changed often, # and for the same reasons. # -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- # ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 16:44:19 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: snohomish monster carport update (fwd) input from the creator of the stretched 4dr cherokee... :) he helped my son put the 460 Javelin together... ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://freegift.com http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Timothy Fisher It all sounds like tons of fun John. Both sound good but let me remind you of the one I wanted to build after my sucessful Wagoneer stretch A FOUR DOOR J10 Take the entire back wall from your pickup.. I mean from the door latches back... graft it on behind the back doors of the grand wagoneer... Thereby creating a 4 door J10!! I prefer the look of the jeep P/U bed but a flatbed is more practical and durable. tim "Fish" fisher Sr factory service rep. Cadillac-Gage combat Vehicles Textron M1117 ASV Q-West Iraq Helping them do what they would have done if they knew what they could do - --- On Sun, 2/15/09, john wrote: From: john Subject: snohomish monster carport update (fwd) To: "Timothy Fisher" Date: Sunday, February 15, 2009, 8:17 PM over this weekend some interesting deals lined up... which hopefully will play out tomorrow... found a portable generator welder... 4kw/125AC lincoln buzz box... and an '85 Grand Wagoneer that I'm trading for an extra laptop... so, now, I'm trying to decide if I'm going to: 1) fix up the '86 CJ-10A with the GW axles and make a flatbed, that might look something like this: (with proper fenders of course) http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Ouray2002/Aug17-BBQ/p8175590_.jpg or, 2) move the 3.3L Diesel / 727 / np208 to the 85 GW and modify the back end to make it a 4dr pickup like this: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Ouray2002/Modified-Wag-4dr-Pickup/ If I create the CJ-10A flatbed I'll probably need to move the springs back a bit... welder showed up just in time... but it'll still be a cramped 2dr unit... a bit ugly and very unique. Previous experience shows this setup should get over 20mpg... and with a nice little flatbed will be able to move WVO barrels around nicely. If I go for the custom Wagoneer it'll be a nicer ride and I can sell the cab from the CJ-10a... but then I won't have a CJ-10A any more... of course I will be able to get auto insurance... :) But I suspect it'll weigh more, go slower and get less mileage... and it's unlikely my body shop skills will result in something better than those pictures... ...keep that popcorn fresh... **************************************** WHAT's the better idea? #1 or #2? :) **************************************** What's the least work? probably #1. :) What's the most practical? probably #2 Which will my wife like? easy, neither. :) While making a dump run today with the trailer and WJ we figured out why we really need three vehicles... the left rear caliper seized on the WJ and we had a bit of a smoke show going... limped it home, but now need to swap out the rear calipers. :( Thankfully the guy with the welder will deliver it... but I suspect it would have fit in the trunk of the 300D. :) john -o|||||o- 1999 Jeep Grand Cherokee (WJ) 15 mpg 4.7L V8/45RFE/NV247 1991 Mercedes 300D (124) 29 mpg 2.5L Turbo Diesel/AT (Shadowfax) in work: 1983 Jeep J10 Stepside (SJ) 14 mpg 4.2/T-5/NP208 (Superdawg) 1975 Jeep J10 long bed (SJ) hydraulic dump trailer 1986 CJ-10A 3.3L Diesel/AT merge with '85 GW??? 1967 Jeep J100 (SJ)Panel 232/T-85/D20 -o|||||o- http://wagoneers.com/johns-vehicles.html ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://freegift.com http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 20:42:21 -0800 (PST) From: diesel john Subject: fsj: have tape measure... ...and used it... very encouraging results were found! 1986 CJ-10A - all measurements (very) approximate (close enough for government work. ;) FRONT SPRINGS - overall length - 48" Front springs - axle center to front 24" Front springs - axle center to rear 24" REAR SPRINGS - overall length - apx 56 - 57" (hard to measure with box in place) Rear springs - axle center to front 24" Rear springs - axle center to rear about 27 - 32" (hard to measure) Checked my FSJ spring pile over by the bushes... wow, they match what I measured... have front springs - 48" - 24/24 have rear springs about 56" - 24/27-32 (pin not centered) I recall reading about someone flipping the springs around on the rear springs to get the axle back away from the cab... looks like that will work! NO WELDING or CUTTING appears necessary to make this work. (ran my new gen/welder for an hour to start breaking it in anyway... ;) Oh yeah, current Wheelbase is 86" give or take a bit... if I move that axle back that three to six or whatever inches that'll be about 90-93" looks like plan #1 will be the quickest way of getting my tug in service... need to pull the starter and get it fixed... have to do the WJ rear calipers tomorrow, will pull the tug into the shop and pull the starter... the '85 GW should arrive later this week... will swap the axles on it to keep it mobile too... that dana 70 with 4.88's on the rear of the GW should be interesting... they will stick out of the fenders though... (I know, I'll get mark out there with his sawzall... NOT) - ------------------ OH yeah, overall width of the tug is about 84", right at 7 feet... my J10 trailer is only 6 feet wide... the WJ is about 5' and a few inches... So this tug as sitting is almost 2 foot wider than a WJ and at least a foot wider than the widest FSJ. As far as the bed, measured the current "box" at 47" front to back, and 5' wide. It has a front section 19" by 5' that sits down 3.5" lower. The back section, over the fuel tank, is 28" by 5'. The wall in the front is 19" tall. The wall in the back is 12" tall. The fenders have an 8" section in front that laps the cab. The middle section of the fender is 18" long and is at the front of the box. The rear fender slope is about 12" long, and the flat part at the back 18" long. I will trim this box at the frame level and remove as much as I can to save weight, but for barrels I think I'm going to build a small platform in the back that will be half the width of a barrel and may be raised with a bottle jack (large size)... If I do this correctly I could use this to lift the back of the jeep... might use a high lift jack to do this... either way, I'm going to build some kind of perch to put the barrels on and strap them down rather than lift them all the way up to the top of the bed... even if it's just a large rear bumper it'll work. - ------------------------- I rolled the 235's out by the tug, will take pictures in the morning... :) soon as a pair of GW axle arrive I could have a 4x4 tug... :) john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://freegift.com http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 12:35:15 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: fsj: dirty gas because of ethanol? just saw a news item, someone is claiming $2500 damage to their vehicles because of "dirty" gas... http://www.komonews.com/news/39767957.html http://www.komonews.com/news/39767957.html?video=YHI&t=a I've heard this before... Aren't the filters on a car supposed to stop contaminants? And what is costing that much money??? They blame ethanol, which collects moisture... john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://freegift.com http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 16:23:25 CST From: Dan Black Subject: Re: fsj: dirty gas because of ethanol? john said: {- just saw a news item, someone is claiming $2500 damage {- to their vehicles because of "dirty" gas... {- {- http://www.komonews.com/news/39767957.html {- http://www.komonews.com/news/39767957.html?video=YHI&t=a {- {- I've heard this before... Aren't the filters on a car supposed {- to stop contaminants? And what is costing that much money??? {- {- They blame ethanol, which collects moisture... Ah, yes, more people trying to say ethanol is evil. Well, it's not the final answer; that's for sure. But it isn't evil. Anyway, yes, in fact, ethanol _can_ clean enough gunk out of your tank to hurt things. But it's extremely uncommon, especially in vehicles that aren't very old (like more than 10 or 20 years old). And if you run ethanol from the beginning, that stuff won't accumulate in the first place, so you don't have that problem later on. Personally, I ran it in my '74 from the time I got it. I don't know if they ran ethanol in it before -- it's fairly likely, I guess -- but that thing's so old and rusty, if it didn't have any problems from gunk being cleaned out of the fuel tank (and put through the fuel lines and engine), it would probably take a pretty extreme case. As for the article, their Silverado could be pretty old, but how long have they been making Altimas? It doesn't tell the year of either car. I find it hard to believe both their vehicles truly had serious problems for that reason. In fact, if anything, if both their vehicles truly had serious problems due to fuel "contamination", I'd be looking around the neighborhood to see if someone poured water or sugar into their tank -- that's more likely than ethanol causing those problems twice. And $2500 in repair bills for _both_ vehicles doesn't suggest any engine damage -- they'd probably get charged more like $5000 _each_. Oh, and their wording sounds wrong here: Around this time of year, gas stations often change their fuel mix to a higher ethanol content in order to break away sediment on the inside of the holding tanks and to cause condensation in the tanks. The problem is that the mixture can do the same to the inside of vehicles' fuel tanks. Sounds like they use ethanol to _cause_ condensation. They're trying to _prevent_ it. They don't want water in the gasoline. Water sinks in gasoline, and when you get to the bottom of the tank (in your vehicle or in the station's holding tank), you start getting more water than gas, which of course is very bad for your engine. There's always some water in the holding tanks; they apparently can't make them truly water-tight, I think due to pressure issues when it gets hot outside, or something like that. So the best thing to do is get the water out evenly, faster than it comes in -- by using ethanol to get it out. (That's also why you're more likely to get water in your tank if you use a gas pump at a station that doesn't get much business -- there's been more time for water to seep in, without enough people pumping gas to get it back out again in small, manageable quantities.) Running ethanol is similar to pouring a bottle of Heet in your tank -- Heet is just alcohol. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I'm not Captain Walker. I'm the guy that keeps Mr. Dead in his pocket. -- Max - -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 15:21:25 -0800 (PST) From: diesel john Subject: fsj: my axles have arrived... the axles have arrived for my '86 cj-10a... mounted on top of the axles is a bonus prize... an '85 Grand Wagoneer with a transfer case that makes very unusual noises when one attempts 4wd. :) pictures to follow... john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://freegift.com http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 17:04:29 -0800 (PST) From: diesel john Subject: fsj: axles for the cj-10a arrived the '85 Grand Wagoneer was dropped off today... took pictures to show size differences... the tug is 2 feet wider than the GW. next step: - ----------- swap tires on GW, get the tires to the guy to complete that deal fix the rear calipers on the WJ pull axles from GW pull axles from tug fix the starter on the tug install GW axles on tug get driveshafts for the tug pull the engine from the GW for the Panel see if I can find another set of axles for the gw part the gw or sell it with "some assembly required" size comparison: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/rigs/1986-CJ10A/2009_Feb_18_rims-n-axles/1985-GW-arrives.html the slotted FSJ rims next to the tug... http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/rigs/1986-CJ10A/2009_Feb_18_rims-n-axles/tug-with-slots.html ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://freegift.com http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #3268 **************************