From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Tue Mar 3 20:51:59 2009 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Wednesday, March 4 2009 Volume 01 : Number 3277 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: nice drive home... RE: fsj: RE: just a thought... RE: fsj: RE: just a thought... fsj: Re: What years for 727 Lock-up Converter ? (and Jim's summer projects) Re: fsj: Re: What years for 727 Lock-up Converter ? (and Jim's summer projects) fsj: Diesel dreams in the Snohomish Monster carport FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 22:18:41 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: fsj: nice drive home... took these pictures on the way home tonight... found a garage door for my shop, the guy delivered it, we drove to my place on Lowell-Larimer Road! http://fotomeister.us/fotos/2009/03-Mar-02-mountains/ALL.html No Jeeps or Diesels were hurt in the capturing of these images... ;) john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 23:16:09 -0800 From: Jim Blair Subject: RE: fsj: RE: just a thought... Do you have the stepside Jtruck box at home? Maybe I can swing by and compare it with the Chev step box I'm picking up for my '76 J10. From the pics, it looks pretty similar. Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 > Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 12:24:36 -0800 > From: dieseljohn-at-comcast.net > To: > Subject: fsj: RE: just a thought... > > will give that idea some thought... storing the old bed > would be an issue... > > the J10 stepside box is actually an old Willys PU bed. > > cutting the bed down two feet might be reversible... depending > on how I cut out the two feet... > > john > > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > On Mon, 2 Mar 2009, Jim Sterling wrote: > > # John, > # > # I believe that the frames on the J trucks and the wag/chero are the same > # width and have the same body mount locations for the Jcab. Behind the > # jcab the frame changes, but from the back of the cab forward they are > # the same (you will want to measure to be sure). That would work and be a > # very interesting truck. I would NOT cut down your Jbed. I would keep it > # as a trailer in case you ever pick up another Jtruck. Then you could > # convert it to a step side. I would either cut down a regular bed (not my > # preference) or build a flat bed the way you want it (This is what I > # would do. Also saves Jbeds from being cut). Sell the CJ10 cab and use > # that money to help with the flat bed, etc. > # > # Jim Sterling > # Sterling Networks > # > # -----Original Message----- > # From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of > # diesel john > # Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 10:45 AM > # To: undisclosed-recipients: > # Subject: fsj: just a thought... > # > # I know, get the popcorn ready... ;) > # > # was just thinking about the '86 cj-10a and it's frame... having the > # axles swapped with GW axles from an '87, 3.31s... using GW rear springs > # flipped around to get another 6" of wheelbase on the tug, around 94" or > # so is expected. > # > # http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2009/02-Feb-28-woodpecker-tugwork/ALL.html > # > # Anyway, I have an '83 J10 Stepside... have always really liked that > # truck... we've had it apart for about eight years now... long, painful, > # and somewhat frustrating story... but anyway... here's my thought: > # > # WILL the J10 cab bolt up to a WAGONEER frame? > # > # Not sure if you're following me... but one of the advantages of the J10 > # cab is it's a nice environment, basically a Wagoneer with the back end > # missing, and since that's the problem part in my mind, it's ideal. > # > # The CJ-10A is a bit crowded, utilitarian and a bit ugly... a brutual > # environment basically... while the Cj-10a is very, very unique and > # somewhat cool... > # > # I would think that putting my J10 cab on my CJ-10A chassis (think > # shortened Grand Wagoneer chassis) that I'd have my DIESEL and my J10 > # with a lot less work. > # > # This also solves another problem... which truck to keep... the CJ-10A > # with the Diesel or the J10 with a 4.2... which of course would have led > # to more popcorn fodder and most likely another Diesel conversion thread. > # > # > # Swapping the Diesel into the J10 chassis is one option. But the longer > # wheelbase and additional weight wouldn't really work... I'd be wanting > # more power... not that I won't dream about more power with the cj-10a's > # 3.3L Diesel... but so far after removing the ballast and about 600lbs > # worth of bumpers it's performance is acceptable in Puget Sound > # traffic... > # > # This also solves wiring issues I've got with the CJ-10a... then I would > # just build a custom flatbed and turn my stepside box into a very > # lightweight trailer... > # > # pass the popcorn... > # > # this won't happen for at least a couple of days, it's in the shop until > # Tuesday. ;) > # > # BTW, I have a buyer for the cj-10a cab if I decide to go this way... > # > # I might also put Wagoneer fenders on the front of the J10 because I > # won't need the flares... ;) will make a narrow track, bob tail J10... > # > # ok... let the flames and arrows intermingle with the popcorn... let's > # hear what ye all > # think of such lunacy. :) > # > # Will Superdawg get his tail bobbed? :) hmmm... air conditioning... how > # much of the 80 hp will that take? ;) > # > # john > # > # ----- > # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > # Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > # http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org > # http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us > # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > # > # > # _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live^Y Contacts: Organize your contact list. http://windowslive.com/connect/post/marcusatmicrosoft.spaces.live.com-Blog-cn s!503D1D86EBB2B53C!2285.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_UGC_Contacts_032009 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 00:22:05 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: RE: fsj: RE: just a thought... no, it's in centralia with both j10s. :( ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Mon, 2 Mar 2009, Jim Blair wrote: # Do you have the stepside Jtruck box at home? Maybe I can swing by and compare # it with the Chev step box I'm picking up for my '76 J10. From the pics, it # looks pretty similar. # # Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 # # # # # > Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 12:24:36 -0800 # > From: dieseljohn-at-comcast.net # > To: # > Subject: fsj: RE: just a thought... # > # > will give that idea some thought... storing the old bed # > would be an issue... # > # > the J10 stepside box is actually an old Willys PU bed. # > # > cutting the bed down two feet might be reversible... depending # > on how I cut out the two feet... # > # > john # > # > ----- # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org # > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > # > # > On Mon, 2 Mar 2009, Jim Sterling wrote: # > # > # John, # > # # > # I believe that the frames on the J trucks and the wag/chero are the same # > # width and have the same body mount locations for the Jcab. Behind the # > # jcab the frame changes, but from the back of the cab forward they are # > # the same (you will want to measure to be sure). That would work and be a # > # very interesting truck. I would NOT cut down your Jbed. I would keep it # > # as a trailer in case you ever pick up another Jtruck. Then you could # > # convert it to a step side. I would either cut down a regular bed (not my # > # preference) or build a flat bed the way you want it (This is what I # > # would do. Also saves Jbeds from being cut). Sell the CJ10 cab and use # > # that money to help with the flat bed, etc. # > # # > # Jim Sterling # > # Sterling Networks # > # # > # -----Original Message----- # > # From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of # > # diesel john # > # Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 10:45 AM # > # To: undisclosed-recipients: # > # Subject: fsj: just a thought... # > # # > # I know, get the popcorn ready... ;) # > # # > # was just thinking about the '86 cj-10a and it's frame... having the # > # axles swapped with GW axles from an '87, 3.31s... using GW rear springs # > # flipped around to get another 6" of wheelbase on the tug, around 94" or # > # so is expected. # > # # > # http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2009/02-Feb-28-woodpecker-tugwork/ALL.html # > # # > # Anyway, I have an '83 J10 Stepside... have always really liked that # > # truck... we've had it apart for about eight years now... long, painful, # > # and somewhat frustrating story... but anyway... here's my thought: # > # # > # WILL the J10 cab bolt up to a WAGONEER frame? # > # # > # Not sure if you're following me... but one of the advantages of the J10 # > # cab is it's a nice environment, basically a Wagoneer with the back end # > # missing, and since that's the problem part in my mind, it's ideal. # > # # > # The CJ-10A is a bit crowded, utilitarian and a bit ugly... a brutual # > # environment basically... while the Cj-10a is very, very unique and # > # somewhat cool... # > # # > # I would think that putting my J10 cab on my CJ-10A chassis (think # > # shortened Grand Wagoneer chassis) that I'd have my DIESEL and my J10 # > # with a lot less work. # > # # > # This also solves another problem... which truck to keep... the CJ-10A # > # with the Diesel or the J10 with a 4.2... which of course would have led # > # to more popcorn fodder and most likely another Diesel conversion thread. # > # # > # # > # Swapping the Diesel into the J10 chassis is one option. But the longer # > # wheelbase and additional weight wouldn't really work... I'd be wanting # > # more power... not that I won't dream about more power with the cj-10a's # > # 3.3L Diesel... but so far after removing the ballast and about 600lbs # > # worth of bumpers it's performance is acceptable in Puget Sound # > # traffic... # > # # > # This also solves wiring issues I've got with the CJ-10a... then I would # > # just build a custom flatbed and turn my stepside box into a very # > # lightweight trailer... # > # # > # pass the popcorn... # > # # > # this won't happen for at least a couple of days, it's in the shop until # > # Tuesday. ;) # > # # > # BTW, I have a buyer for the cj-10a cab if I decide to go this way... # > # # > # I might also put Wagoneer fenders on the front of the J10 because I # > # won't need the flares... ;) will make a narrow track, bob tail J10... # > # # > # ok... let the flames and arrows intermingle with the popcorn... let's # > # hear what ye all # > # think of such lunacy. :) # > # # > # Will Superdawg get his tail bobbed? :) hmmm... air conditioning... how # > # much of the 80 hp will that take? ;) # > # # > # john # > # # > # ----- # > # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > # Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > # http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org # > # http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us # > # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > # # > # # > # # # _________________________________________________________________ # Windows Live^Y Contacts: Organize your contact list. # http://windowslive.com/connect/post/marcusatmicrosoft.spaces.live.com-Blog-cn # s!503D1D86EBB2B53C!2285.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_UGC_Contacts_032009 # ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 18:54:51 -0800 From: Jim Blair Subject: fsj: Re: What years for 727 Lock-up Converter ? (and Jim's summer projects) Almost all 727s and 999s up till late '82 were lockup, and the replacements are often non-lockup as the converters had issues back then. Having a low speed upshift to lockup was very destructive to both the converter lockup and high forward clutches. Often you could get away with it for a long time until you hauled heavy loads and the clutches would strip. The trick is to build a trans with a slightly higher stall speed or run the lower first/second gearset (or both) and put in the higher converter lockup spring (it just goes onto the valve body in place of the original lower speed one. Not terribly high on the banana scale of things to do) You end up with higher line pressure when the trans shifts, which means less slippage and a tighter engagement/more solid shift with less wear and tear. With a slightly higher stall converter, it feels like a 4th gear. I'm bypassing that with an AW4 trans in my Jtrucks. I currently have one in my '83 J10 longbox (4.2L/AW4/NP208 with 3.31 or 3.54 gearing and 33" tires) It was originally a 5 speed truck and I have all the parts from the swap (T5 with welded synchros) in my for sale pile. The black steering column will be up for sale as soon as I swap the auto one in. Next step will be install the 4.0L head and EFI (this one is my test mule for my '83 J10 7' Shortbox) Later I'll swap out the Jeep 727/NP208D (from a Dodge Ramcharger) behind my '77 AMX 304 in my '76 J10 6' box (I have a Chev stepside to put on that soon. I have to finish my '86 MJ longbox for the guy that bought it from me and get my '87 MJ shortbox finished as a 4x4) Before I can do a lot of this though, I have to get rid of my '81 Chev C20 with 454 (previous owner did the Edelbrock package and had the TH400 beefed as well as 5th wheel tow package) *sigh* Where to start? Projects to do hopefully by June: '82 Spirit: Swap in '80 Eagle axles and AW4 with Jeep EFI (I have the parts but no shop yet so I'm at the mercy of the weather) '81 Chev C20: remove 5th wheel and sell truck (I already put 33/12.50/16.5s on alloy wheels on it) First $1200 will take that. Still has a minor valve cover leak (what can I say? Typical Chev!) '86 MJ: Finish motor swap I mostly did last fall before bad weather messed things up and get it to it's new home in Portland. '87 MJ: Finish auto/4x4 swap (broken column shifter cable and dash conversion are what stopped me last fall) '83 J10: Finish AW4 swap and install EFI. Requires custom trans crossbar and wiring. '76 J10: Finish 304 swap and 727/208 (for now) and make driveshafts for the J20 axles. Put on stepside box. '84 J10: Finish lift (it clears 44" tires with no trimming with just an SOA so far) Hook up 4.6L/AW4 (93 Grand Cherokee)/NV241OR 4:1 tcase (from a Rubicon) and wire in EFI and Hydroboost. Already has 4.10 axles. By fall: Part '66 Travelall 2wd to fix BMax's '68 Travelall 4x4 (we need the mounts for the V8 swap and the rear glass which was broken on the '68) I'm also parting the '71 IH Loadstar and taking the 70K mile 345/ 5 speed O/D trans and auxilliary hi/lo trans for the Travelall. That will leave a good runing BG241 6 cyl and 4 speed along with an IH 304 with Borg Warner auto to sell with some other bits. The Travelall has remote tcase so the swap is pretty easy. I want to use the 18 foot steel deck to make a car trailer out of (I already used the stake sides to make a shed on the back of the truck for storage, but the wife wants it gone by June) I can use the BG241 or the 304 to drive the body to the scrap yard (shame to get rid of a 3 speed rear axle, but DAMN it's huge!) _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live^Y Contacts: Organize your contact list. http://windowslive.com/connect/post/marcusatmicrosoft.spaces.live.com-Blog-cn s!503D1D86EBB2B53C!2285.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_UGC_Contacts_032009 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 20:39:45 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Re: What years for 727 Lock-up Converter ? (and Jim's summer projects) a couple of comments if I may... 1) you actually have more projects lined up than I do, well, at least in the automotive realm. :) 2) I'm not so sure the lockup stuff was the only issue in the jeep torqueflites... I thought I read where the oil was not routed to the trans cooler when in Park. Whatever the issues with Jeep implementations of the Torqueflite they were bad. I've had a couple fail... the 727 in my tug is supposedly a big block version, and as such I'm hoping it's immune to the FSJ issues... thoughts? 3) You need that Dana 70 axle out of the tug. ;) 4) Do you have any stepside boxes, or a willys box that I could use to build a SHORT box for my cj-10a? The current bed is 5' wide by 47" long... so whatever bed I use need only be about 4' long at most... I have pretty much decided NOT to sacrifice SuperDawg's bed. john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Tue, 3 Mar 2009, Jim Blair wrote: # Almost all 727s and 999s up till late '82 were lockup, and the replacements # are often non-lockup as the converters had issues back then. Having a low # speed upshift to lockup was very destructive to both the converter lockup and # high forward clutches. Often you could get away with it for a long time until # you hauled heavy loads and the clutches would strip. # The trick is to build a trans with a slightly higher stall speed or run the # lower first/second gearset (or both) and put in the higher converter lockup # spring (it just goes onto the valve body in place of the original lower speed # one. Not terribly high on the banana scale of things to do) # You end up with higher line pressure when the trans shifts, which means # less slippage and a tighter engagement/more solid shift with less wear and # tear. With a slightly higher stall converter, it feels like a 4th gear. # I'm bypassing that with an AW4 trans in my Jtrucks. I currently have one in # my '83 J10 longbox (4.2L/AW4/NP208 with 3.31 or 3.54 gearing and 33" tires) It # was originally a 5 speed truck and I have all the parts from the swap (T5 with # welded synchros) in my for sale pile. The black steering column will be up for # sale as soon as I swap the auto one in. # Next step will be install the 4.0L head and EFI (this one is my test mule # for my '83 J10 7' Shortbox) Later I'll swap out the Jeep 727/NP208D (from a # Dodge Ramcharger) behind my '77 AMX 304 in my '76 J10 6' box (I have a Chev # stepside to put on that soon. I have to finish my '86 MJ longbox for the guy # that bought it from me and get my '87 MJ shortbox finished as a 4x4) # Before I can do a lot of this though, I have to get rid of my '81 Chev C20 # with 454 (previous owner did the Edelbrock package and had the TH400 beefed as # well as 5th wheel tow package) # # *sigh* Where to start? # # Projects to do hopefully by June: # '82 Spirit: Swap in '80 Eagle axles and AW4 with Jeep EFI (I have the parts # but no shop yet so I'm at the mercy of the weather) # # '81 Chev C20: remove 5th wheel and sell truck (I already put 33/12.50/16.5s on # alloy wheels on it) First $1200 will take that. Still has a minor valve cover # leak (what can I say? Typical Chev!) # # '86 MJ: Finish motor swap I mostly did last fall before bad weather messed # things up and get it to it's new home in Portland. # # '87 MJ: Finish auto/4x4 swap (broken column shifter cable and dash conversion # are what stopped me last fall) # # '83 J10: Finish AW4 swap and install EFI. Requires custom trans crossbar and # wiring. # # '76 J10: Finish 304 swap and 727/208 (for now) and make driveshafts for the # J20 axles. Put on stepside box. # # '84 J10: Finish lift (it clears 44" tires with no trimming with just an SOA so # far) Hook up 4.6L/AW4 (93 Grand Cherokee)/NV241OR 4:1 tcase (from a Rubicon) # and wire in EFI and Hydroboost. Already has 4.10 axles. # # By fall: Part '66 Travelall 2wd to fix BMax's '68 Travelall 4x4 (we need the # mounts for the V8 swap and the rear glass which was broken on the '68) I'm # also parting the '71 IH Loadstar and taking the 70K mile 345/ 5 speed O/D # trans and auxilliary hi/lo trans for the Travelall. # That will leave a good runing BG241 6 cyl and 4 speed along with an IH 304 # with Borg Warner auto to sell with some other bits. The Travelall has remote # tcase so the swap is pretty easy. # # I want to use the 18 foot steel deck to make a car trailer out of (I # already used the stake sides to make a shed on the back of the truck for # storage, but the wife wants it gone by June) I can use the BG241 or the 304 to # drive the body to the scrap yard (shame to get rid of a 3 speed rear axle, but # DAMN it's huge!) # # _________________________________________________________________ # Windows Live^Y Contacts: Organize your contact list. # http://windowslive.com/connect/post/marcusatmicrosoft.spaces.live.com-Blog-cn # s!503D1D86EBB2B53C!2285.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_UGC_Contacts_032009 # ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 20:51:32 -0800 (PST) From: diesel john Subject: fsj: Diesel dreams in the Snohomish Monster carport ...the carport may soon become a garage however, found a garage door finally... ;) anyway, still waiting for the axle swap work to be completed before I move onto the next phase... will the axles/tires and springs make the cj-10a a decent daily driver for ride and power... I believe it will... Once that has been verified, then I need to decide whether to use a J10 cab on the cj-10a chassis or stay with the cj cab... or even move the Diesel drivetrain into my '83 J10 stepside. A couple of givens are: 1) I want a Diesel 2) I prefer an automatic (the cj-10a has one) 3) I am NOT going to hack up the bed or the cab of my '83 J10 stepside... I prefer the looks of the J10 cab, and it has more room. However it also will most likely weigh more... affecting performance. Neither cab has a lot of leg room. since I'm not going to tear up the stepside box, I should leave the J10 cab on that chassis as well. I have the cab on the '80 J10 that had some damage and rust... and technically I've given it to Curtis, whether he uses it or even wants it remains to be seen. That cab, if Curtis doesn't want it, could be used on the cj-10a. The cj-10a is unique in appearance... the cab has a removeable top, rear slider, and removeable doors... it's kind of fun... moderately comfortable. Not very weather tight or quiet. The J10 cab is also unique, but on the shortened frame will seem a bit out of balance... like half of the Jeep is missing... of course it seems that way with the cj-10a as well, but since it's so odd already it's not as odd. ;) Looking at pictures of my J10, http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/select/ALL.html I'm thinking that eventually putting the Diesel drivetrain into it, or doing another 6.2L Diesel conversion might be a good longterm project. keep that popcorn fresh... ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #3277 **************************