From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Tue Apr 7 18:11:13 2009 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Wednesday, April 8 2009 Volume 01 : Number 3303 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: Re: School Bus Engine and Trans Swap? Re: fsj: Re: School Bus Engine and Trans Swap? Re: fsj: School Bus Engine and Trans Swap? RE: fsj: taking Cherokee to Germany? Re: fsj: School Bus Engine and Trans Swap? RE: fsj: anyone in Seattle need a TF727/NP229? Re: fsj: taking Cherokee to Germany? Re: fsj: taking Cherokee to Germany? Re: fsj: taking Cherokee to Germany? fsj: np229 selectrac RE: fsj: School Bus Engine and Trans Swap? FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 22:48:13 -0700 From: Jim Blair Subject: fsj: Re: School Bus Engine and Trans Swap? What size Cat engine is it? (should be a number someplace) 4 cyl would probably work. Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 School Bus Engine and Trans Swap? Posted by: "Carlton J. Patterson" joshpatterson21-at-hotmail.com sschevelle396375 Date: Fri Apr 3, 2009 5:23 pm ((PDT)) I have found a pretty cheap 1989 Chevrolet School Bus. Probably a 50+ passenger. I was told it has a Cat Engine and Allison Trans. All I can find on the internet is Chevy buses that have 8.2L Detroits and Allisons. Anybody know what this bus might have in it? From that point I would like to know what the thoughts are on swapping that engine and trans into my Jeep (M715/J10). Will it fit? What kind of power do school buses put down? How much do will the combo weigh? Just the over all jist. I am running a divorced transfer case and rockwells just for info. If it is something that might be worth pursuing I may go look at the bus and test drive it. Josh. _________________________________________________________________ Quick access to your favorite MSN content and Windows Live with Internet Explorer 8. http://ie8.msn.com/microsoft/internet-explorer-8/en-us/ie8.aspx?ocid=B037MSN5 5C0701A ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 08:24:05 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Re: School Bus Engine and Trans Swap? I drove busses about this size in the Army... 20 tons comes to mind, but you'd need to get more info and I'd need to find my old military driver's license to see the ratings... of course the school bus might be lighter than the greyhound style busses too... hard to say... john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Mon, 6 Apr 2009, Jim Blair wrote: # What size Cat engine is it? (should be a number someplace) 4 cyl would # probably work. # # Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 # # School Bus Engine and Trans Swap? # Posted by: "Carlton J. Patterson" joshpatterson21-at-hotmail.com # sschevelle396375 # Date: Fri Apr 3, 2009 5:23 pm ((PDT)) # # I have found a pretty cheap 1989 Chevrolet School Bus. Probably a 50+ # passenger. I was told it has a Cat Engine and Allison Trans. All I can find # on the internet is Chevy buses that have 8.2L Detroits and Allisons. Anybody # know what this bus might have in it? From that point I would like to know # what the thoughts are on swapping that engine and trans into my Jeep # (M715/J10). Will it fit? What kind of power do school buses put down? How # much do will the combo weigh? Just the over all jist. I am running a # divorced transfer case and rockwells just for info. If it is something that # might be worth pursuing I may go look at the bus and test drive it. Josh. # # _________________________________________________________________ # Quick access to your favorite MSN content and Windows Live with Internet # Explorer 8. # http://ie8.msn.com/microsoft/internet-explorer-8/en-us/ie8.aspx?ocid=B037MSN5 # 5C0701A # ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2009 10:28:44 CDT From: Dan Black Subject: Re: fsj: School Bus Engine and Trans Swap? john said: {- I drove busses about this size in the Army... 20 tons {- comes to mind, but you'd need to get more info and I'd {- need to find my old military driver's license to see {- the ratings... of course the school bus might be lighter {- than the greyhound style busses too... hard to say... Close, if it's loaded. http://google.com/search?q=weight+of+a+bus second link: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_much_does_a_school_bus_weigh Sounds like 10-14 tons unloaded, and then add up to 4-8 tons or so for passengers (depending on age, size, etc.). I'd guess the Greyhounds would weigh more, too, but I didn't find those stats quickly. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Heisenberg was driving down the Autobahn whereupon he was pulled over by a policeman. The policeman asked, "Do you know how fast you were going back there?" Heisenberg replied, "No, but I know where I am." - -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 08:47:54 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: RE: fsj: taking Cherokee to Germany? Ramstein! cool. I lived in Frankfurt and Darmstadt from 1975 to 1981... made it over to "K-town" a few times. Nice area, rolling hills and forests. are they running unleaded over there now? :) are you sure you want to have something that drinks gas like that over there? :) I miss the autobahn... it would be pretty cool to have a 401 powered FSJ over there... hammer down in the left lane... have daydreams of such fun. :) I drove lots of vehicles over there... my own, friends and army vehicles... vehicles I had over there: '64 VW Karman Ghia - great mileage... 1200cc '67 Mustang (289/3 speed manual/2.79 rear end) (did 140 mph between Karlsrue and Heidleberg coming back from Switzerland) '68 Mustang '67 BMW CS2000 '71 BMW 2500 '75 Ford Club Wagon - very thirsty... 14mpg... ;) '73 Pinto - did 120 mph with this... once... :) thought it was going to fall apart '68 Beetle Have a Schnitzel for me... enjoy your time over there... would love to go back... now that the wall is down I could actually visit places like Prague, Wittenberg and drive to Berlin... So, are you in the Air Force? My son got out last year after 4 years... john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Mon, 6 Apr 2009, Zee Man wrote: # # # i am going to Ramstein. Maybe three or four years. I just really need to call the POV place there... I wonder if my chrome air filter will it now be modified? I have a lot of reading to do... i would hate to get rid of this jeep.. I saved it from a trip to the junkyard.. it was a basketcase when i bought it... Its now very livable...I would hate to have to try and find another one... I may give it to my brother in law to use... I assume i will not get it back in the same condition. # # # # I forget where i was going with this... # # # # Rob Zabawa # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # > Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 13:40:16 -0 # > From: john-at-wagoneers.com # > To: z_man401-at-hotmail.com # > CC: fsj-digest-at-digest.net # > Subject: Re: fsj: taking Cherokee to Germany? # > # > I don't recall what the inspection criteria is any more, I shipped # > my '68 Mustang to, and a '73 Pinto from, Germany... that was in # > '78 and '81... I remember that we had to remove the cats before # > shipping or they'd clog up over there... # > # > it's easy enough to have one reinstalled... # > # > as far as the Federal requirements it's 21 years: # > http://epa.gov/OMS/imports/quiktext.htm # > # > (I was looking at importing a YJ from Canada a bit ago...) # > # > BTW, WHERE are you going in Germany? I was stationed in # > Frankfurt from 1975-77, and Darmstadt from 1978-81. # > # > john # > # > ----- # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org # > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > # > # > On Wed, 1 Apr 2009, Zee Man wrote: # > # > # All, # > # # > # # > # # > # It looks like i just might be going to Germany in late 2010. I was thinking # > # of taking the Cherokee. I am somewhat concerned because of i do not have any # > # Cats. MY 77 Gremlin has a noncatalyst equipped stick on the door. looking # > # for one on the Jeep I dont see one anywhere. I am thinking I might sell # > # it well i am there so i dont have to worry about bring back a noncatalyst # > # equiped vehicle. I am thinking many emmisions may be waived to its age... # > # anybody know anything about this? Sorry for the bad spelling i am still in # > # Qatar and i am outside being attacked by flies. # > # # > # # > # # > # # > # # > # Thanks # > # # > # Rob # > # # > # # > # # > # 78 Cherokee Chief 401 # > # # > # 77 Gremlin 401 # > # # > # _________________________________________________________________ # > # Rediscover Hotmail.: Now available on your iPhone or BlackBerry # > # http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Mobi # > # le1_042009 # > # in # # _________________________________________________________________ # Quick access to your favorite MSN content and Windows Live with Internet Explorer 8. # http://ie8.msn.com/microsoft/internet-explorer-8/en-us/ie8.aspx?ocid=B037MSN55C0701A ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 08:54:14 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: School Bus Engine and Trans Swap? in the states the busses I drove were just like the greyhounds, in Germany we had a mix of them, more like a city bus or a large school bus. I had to do my driver's test in a large city bus style in downtown Darmstadt... that was fun... the bus was as wide as the lane... turning corners was an adventure since you sat forward of the front wheels... basically you watch your mirror and as soon as the back axle gets by the curb, you wheel it around, more or less... kind of like driving my tug with that 7' axle in my driveway... ;) driving a bus on the autobahn was interesting... they were governed to a max speed of 50 mph. big green solid object stuck in the right lane with all these brightly colored objects flashing by on the left... :) At 20 tons I wasn't too worried about being rear ended either... the one vehicle I really enjoyed driving over there was that '67 or '68 International 4 door 4x4 pickup... straight six, manual trans... big old brushguard on the front... very cool vehicle... wish I'd taken a picture of it... you know, if I could find one of those and drop a Diesel in it... :) john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Tue, 7 Apr 2009, Dan Black wrote: # john said: # {- I drove busses about this size in the Army... 20 tons # {- comes to mind, but you'd need to get more info and I'd # {- need to find my old military driver's license to see # {- the ratings... of course the school bus might be lighter # {- than the greyhound style busses too... hard to say... # # Close, if it's loaded. # # http://google.com/search?q=weight+of+a+bus # second link: # http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_much_does_a_school_bus_weigh # # Sounds like 10-14 tons unloaded, and then add up to 4-8 tons or so for # passengers (depending on age, size, etc.). # # I'd guess the Greyhounds would weigh more, too, but I didn't find those # stats quickly. # # ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- # Heisenberg was driving down the Autobahn whereupon he was pulled over # by a policeman. The policeman asked, "Do you know how fast you were # going back there?" Heisenberg replied, "No, but I know where I am." # -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- # ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 09:00:30 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: RE: fsj: anyone in Seattle need a TF727/NP229? it's over by three lakes... the guy wanted $150 for it, when I hemmed and hawed about the setup he dropped the price to $65... if I wait a day he might just give it to me... ;) I didn't look at it... asked him about the setbelts, they were red with tears... model 20 rear end... an '80 most likely would have had an np219. I don't think the selectrac 229 came out until '82... will look it up real quick though... obviously a transplant... :) john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Mon, 6 Apr 2009, Jim Blair wrote: # # Someone must've swapped it in. Did it have a dash switch? That would be the tip off it's a 229/228. # # Jim # # # # > Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 15:19:58 -0700 # > From: john-at-wagoneers.com # > To: fsj-at-digest.net; xj-at-digest.net # > Subject: fsj: anyone in Seattle need a TF727/NP229? # > # > I found a trans/xfr case out of an '80 Wagoneer... # > # > I was hoping for an NP219 or NP208, but it's a NP229. # > # > let me know... # > # > john # > # > # > # > ----- # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org # > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # # _________________________________________________________________ # Rediscover Hotmail.: Now available on your iPhone or BlackBerry # http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Mobi le1_042009 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2009 11:12:36 CDT From: Dan Black Subject: Re: fsj: taking Cherokee to Germany? john said: {- I miss the autobahn... it would be pretty cool to have a 401 powered FSJ {- over there... hammer down in the left lane... have daydreams of such fun. :) Funny you should say that... I have two of them for sale. ;) I'll entertain offers any time. :) The '88 has a custom TBI system that was never tuned right. The next owner will want to do one of the following: * put the good Edelbrock EFI system on * switch back to a carb, probably 4bbl (already has a 4bbl Edelbrock intake) * if you have experience with customizing those fuel maps, you could do that -- I'll include the USB chip burner and at least one spare chip (5 if I can find them) OTOH, even though it runs rich and isn't nearly as smooth or strong as it should be with that TBI, it at least hasn't ever died on me like the Holley TBI did. When it died a couple months ago, it was broken wires going to the coil, which have been fixed. The 401 is leaking a bit of oil, enough to leave a puddle on the garage floor, but not enough that I really have to add any between oil changes. Has a TF727. (Had to get I think a flywheel and harmonic balancer or something from an AMC car that had that combination.) Lots of rust on the rocker panels and a bit on the fenders around the wheels, but mostly looks nice besides that. The '74 is good only for the driveline. The body is shot -- lots of rust. But the engine sounds great and runs strong, and no problems with the transmission or transfer case. (Though the plastic handle on the cable is broken on the transfer case, so I can't actually get it into 4low.) I took a video a couple months ago; need to grab that on the computer and post it. Both engines are rebuilt 401s, bored 0.060" over. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The fact that no one understands you doesn't mean you're an artist. - -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 09:39:24 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: taking Cherokee to Germany? yeah, but I'm here... and now I dream of Diesels only... oh sure, there's the occassional daydream of stuffing a 455 / th400 and BW1339 into a slightly lowered wagoneer with really stiff sway bars and wide low profile tires and powering through a nice twisty stretch of road with some asian import just a speck in the rear view.... but, driving Sgt. Slow allows me to enjoy the pollen and the trees at a more moderate pace... speeding tickets are quite unlikely, unless we're going down hill of course... :) ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Tue, 7 Apr 2009, Dan Black wrote: # john said: # {- I miss the autobahn... it would be pretty cool to have a 401 powered FSJ # {- over there... hammer down in the left lane... have daydreams of such fun. :) # # Funny you should say that... I have two of them for sale. ;) # # I'll entertain offers any time. :) # # The '88 has a custom TBI system that was never tuned right. The next # owner will want to do one of the following: # * put the good Edelbrock EFI system on # * switch back to a carb, probably 4bbl (already has a 4bbl Edelbrock intake) # * if you have experience with customizing those fuel maps, you could # do that -- I'll include the USB chip burner and at least one spare # chip (5 if I can find them) # OTOH, even though it runs rich and isn't nearly as smooth or strong as # it should be with that TBI, it at least hasn't ever died on me like the # Holley TBI did. When it died a couple months ago, it was broken wires # going to the coil, which have been fixed. # The 401 is leaking a bit of oil, enough to leave a puddle on the garage # floor, but not enough that I really have to add any between oil # changes. Has a TF727. (Had to get I think a flywheel and harmonic # balancer or something from an AMC car that had that combination.) # Lots of rust on the rocker panels and a bit on the fenders around the # wheels, but mostly looks nice besides that. # # The '74 is good only for the driveline. The body is shot -- lots of # rust. But the engine sounds great and runs strong, and no problems with # the transmission or transfer case. (Though the plastic handle on the # cable is broken on the transfer case, so I can't actually get it into # 4low.) I took a video a couple months ago; need to grab that on the # computer and post it. # # Both engines are rebuilt 401s, bored 0.060" over. # # ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- # The fact that no one understands you doesn't mean you're an artist. # -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- # ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 09:28:45 -0700 From: Kevin Subject: Re: fsj: taking Cherokee to Germany? No, probably can't get speeding tickets downhill either. The 6.2 powered chevy slows down when you're off the throttle going down hills, and there's some fairly steep ones here. 401 cherokees are fun. I need to fix mine. Add it to the list... On Tue, Apr 07, 2009 at 09:39:24AM -0700, john wrote: > but, driving Sgt. Slow allows me to enjoy the pollen and the trees > at a more moderate pace... speeding tickets are quite unlikely, unless > we're going down hill of course... :) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 09:56:06 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: np229 selectrac the first year of the NP229 was 1983. so that '80 Wagoneer with 727/np229 is obviously not stock... more reasons to avoid it. :) (parts rig anyway...) john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 17:56:56 -0700 From: Jim Blair Subject: RE: fsj: School Bus Engine and Trans Swap? I got my license in a Grizzly, then started tank training but ended up driving a 5 ton Plymouth (Fargo W800 house mover that I hauled Quanset huts and other stuff around with. Heaviest was an Abrams tank that was used for target practice.) Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 > Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 08:54:14 -0700 > From: john-at-wagoneers.com > To: dan-at-black.org > CC: fsj-at-digest.net > Subject: Re: fsj: School Bus Engine and Trans Swap? > > in the states the busses I drove were just like the greyhounds, > in Germany we had a mix of them, more like a city bus or a large > school bus. I had to do my driver's test in a large city bus > style in downtown Darmstadt... that was fun... the bus was as wide > as the lane... turning corners was an adventure since you sat > forward of the front wheels... basically you watch your mirror > and as soon as the back axle gets by the curb, you wheel it > around, more or less... kind of like driving my tug with that > 7' axle in my driveway... ;) > > driving a bus on the autobahn was interesting... they were governed > to a max speed of 50 mph. big green solid object stuck in the right > lane with all these brightly colored objects flashing by on the left... > :) At 20 tons I wasn't too worried about being rear ended either... > > the one vehicle I really enjoyed driving over there was that '67 or '68 > International 4 door 4x4 pickup... straight six, manual trans... big > old brushguard on the front... very cool vehicle... wish I'd taken > a picture of it... you know, if I could find one of those and drop > a Diesel in it... :) > > john > > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > On Tue, 7 Apr 2009, Dan Black wrote: > > # john said: > # {- I drove busses about this size in the Army... 20 tons > # {- comes to mind, but you'd need to get more info and I'd > # {- need to find my old military driver's license to see > # {- the ratings... of course the school bus might be lighter > # {- than the greyhound style busses too... hard to say... > # > # Close, if it's loaded. > # > # http://google.com/search?q=weight+of+a+bus > # second link: > # http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_much_does_a_school_bus_weigh > # > # Sounds like 10-14 tons unloaded, and then add up to 4-8 tons or so for > # passengers (depending on age, size, etc.). > # > # I'd guess the Greyhounds would weigh more, too, but I didn't find those > # stats quickly. > # > # - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- - -- > # Heisenberg was driving down the Autobahn whereupon he was pulled over > # by a policeman. The policeman asked, "Do you know how fast you were > # going back there?" Heisenberg replied, "No, but I know where I am." > # -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org - -------------- > # _________________________________________________________________ Rediscover Hotmail.: Get e-mail storage that grows with you. http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Stor age1_042009 ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #3303 **************************