From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Wed Apr 8 19:52:05 2009 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Thursday, April 9 2009 Volume 01 : Number 3304 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: RE: fsj: School Bus Engine and Trans Swap? fsj: bus weight fsj: fuel weights (was bus weights) Re: fsj: School Bus Engine and Trans Swap? Re: fsj: School Bus Engine and Trans Swap? fsj: Re: fuel weights (was bus weights) RE: fsj: Re: fuel weights (was bus weights) FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 18:00:20 -0700 From: Jim Blair Subject: RE: fsj: School Bus Engine and Trans Swap? My old 40 foot '67 GMC city bus was 10 tons worth of drivetrain alone (the 5 ton tow truck that helped me swap the engine/trans combo from one bus to the other popped a wheelie when we let the last bolt loose on drivetrain cradle of the parts truck) Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 > To: fsj-at-digest.net > Subject: Re: fsj: School Bus Engine and Trans Swap? > From: dan-at-black.org > Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 10:28:44 -0500 > > john said: > {- I drove busses about this size in the Army... 20 tons > {- comes to mind, but you'd need to get more info and I'd > {- need to find my old military driver's license to see > {- the ratings... of course the school bus might be lighter > {- than the greyhound style busses too... hard to say... > > Close, if it's loaded. > > http://google.com/search?q=weight+of+a+bus > second link: > http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_much_does_a_school_bus_weigh > > Sounds like 10-14 tons unloaded, and then add up to 4-8 tons or so for > passengers (depending on age, size, etc.). > > I'd guess the Greyhounds would weigh more, too, but I didn't find those > stats quickly. > > - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- - -- > Heisenberg was driving down the Autobahn whereupon he was pulled over > by a policeman. The policeman asked, "Do you know how fast you were > going back there?" Heisenberg replied, "No, but I know where I am." > -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org - -------------- _________________________________________________________________ Rediscover Hotmail.: Get e-mail storage that grows with you. http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Stor age1_042009 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2009 10:57:05 CDT From: Dan Black Subject: fsj: bus weight I wrote a quick email yesterday to our campus bus people - CyRide - to ask about the weight of their busses. Rich Leners, from CyRide, replied this morning... See his note below. And to see their fleet of busses: http://www.cyride.com/about/activefleet.html (There are pics most of their individual busses; click on the bus number in the table.) =============================================================================== To: dsblack-at-iastate.edu Subject: Re: bus weight Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2009 09:27:13 -0500 The CyRide fleet consists primarily of 40' buses with a few 35' buses and minibuses. Bus manufacturers give a dry and wet weight. This may sound silly, but a bus engine can hold 11 gallons of oil or more and the fuel tanks can hold up to 125 gallons of diesel. The weight of diesel is approximately 8lbs per gallon, so the difference between a full tank of fuel and empty is 1000 lbs alone. For your question, we'll assume wet weight. The newest transit buses in the fleet weigh 33-35,000 lbs wet. Passengers are assumed to weigh 180 lbs and the buses seat 36 +/- 4. We frequently have as many passengers standing as seated. Figure a bus holds around 60 people at 180 lbs or 10,800. So a fully loaded transit bus on campus can weigh as much as 45,800. Given that most of our buses are old, you can see why keeping the buses properly maintained is critical to the safety of our passengers. =============================================================================== - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- What's a diorama? -- Ralph Wiggum - -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 11:02:23 -0700 (PDT) From: diesel john Subject: fsj: fuel weights (was bus weights) Dan, Interesting info on bus weight and fuel weights, the weight of Diesel seemed high so I looked it up... they rounded up quite a bit, or expect a lot of water in their fuel. ;) Diesel about 7.1 lbs. varies with temp, 7.15lbs also listed (not 8lbs) water is about 8.34 lbs weight of biodiesel is generally reported to be 7.34 pounds per gallon veggie oil: Crude corn oil weighs 7.7 lbs per gallon gasoline is about 6.15 lbs (6.0-6.3lbs) (all weights vary by temperature due to density, or weight by volume) - ----------- A 55 gallon drum of WVO will weigh about 8lbs per gallon (considering food debris) 440lbs of gunk and about 44lbs for the steel drum or 484 lbs. That's what I'm hanging off the barrel lift on my rear hitch, plus the lift itself that probably weighs about 90lbs... for a total of 528 lbs. (chuck, we don't want to drop one of those on our foot... ;) When I get my BioDiesel it's in a plastic 20 gallon barrel... 146.8 lbs of fuel and maybe 10lbs for that barrel... around 155lbs... and both chuck and I have dropped that on our foot... not recommended on concrete. :) http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/rigs/1986-CJ10A/2009_Apr_05_tug-w-barrel-lift/ I bought a used Grand Wagoneer hitch and installed it last night, left the mickey mouse c-channel rear step bumper in place with reciever hitch. :) Have pictures in the camera sitting in the console of the tug sitting in the carport... :) Went out to start the tug this morning and it just clicked... new battery, new cable... heading out to get a new starter solenoid at lunch time, and a new ground cable too... and a yard of compost... (drove the WJ with the J10 trailer in tow...) Solenoid is around $48.00. New starter retails for $679 or around $480 reman'd, estimates for rebuild only $180. The SD33 uses a Hitachi S13-14 starter, called Forklifts NW they list a Nissan part number of 23300-Z5515, list price $670.29. Wish me luck on the new ground cable and solenoid... :) john - ----------- ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Wed, 8 Apr 2009, Dan Black wrote: # asked about the weight of busses. # http://www.cyride.com/about/activefleet.html # =============================================================================== # Subject: Re: bus weight # Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2009 09:27:13 -0500 # The CyRide fleet consists primarily of 40' buses with a few 35' buses and # minibuses. Bus manufacturers give a dry and wet weight. This may sound # silly, but a bus engine can hold 11 gallons of oil or more and the fuel # tanks can hold up to 125 gallons of diesel. The weight of diesel is # approximately 8lbs per gallon, so the difference between a full tank of # fuel and empty is 1000 lbs alone. For your question, we'll assume wet # weight. # The newest transit buses in the fleet weigh 33-35,000 lbs wet. Passengers # are assumed to weigh 180 lbs and the buses seat 36 +/- 4. We frequently # have as many passengers standing as seated. Figure a bus holds around 60 # people at 180 lbs or 10,800. So a fully loaded transit bus on campus can # weigh as much as 45,800. # # -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- # ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 12:05:36 -0600 (MDT) From: Diana Eichert Subject: Re: fsj: School Bus Engine and Trans Swap? Chuckle, you want one of those 4 door Intl? I own one a '67 with a 392 V-8. Some guy up in Los Alamos used to pull his polo pony trailer with it. At least I think I still own it. It's parked over at a guys house that I haven't seen in a couple years. diana > Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 08:54:14 -0700 (PDT) > From: john > Subject: Re: fsj: School Bus Engine and Trans Swap? > > > the one vehicle I really enjoyed driving over there was that '67 or '68 > International 4 door 4x4 pickup... straight six, manual trans... big > old brushguard on the front... very cool vehicle... wish I'd taken > a picture of it... you know, if I could find one of those and drop > a Diesel in it... :) > > john ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 11:28:14 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: School Bus Engine and Trans Swap? got pictures? :) sounds like it'd be rust free... would be a good Cummins Diesel project rig... I'm not so sure this will fly with the "home-owners" association/wedding planner/ gardner/chief cook and bottle washer/better half... if you know what I mean... :) might you be interested in a trade for a '67 J100 2door Jeep panel? :) also a retired military vehicle, complete with log book... :) john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Wed, 8 Apr 2009, Diana Eichert wrote: # Chuckle, you want one of those 4 door Intl? # # I own one a '67 with a 392 V-8. Some guy up in Los Alamos # used to pull his polo pony trailer with it. # # At least I think I still own it. It's parked over at a guys house # that I haven't seen in a couple years. # # diana # # > Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 08:54:14 -0700 (PDT) # > From: john # > Subject: Re: fsj: School Bus Engine and Trans Swap? # > # > # > the one vehicle I really enjoyed driving over there was that '67 or '68 # > International 4 door 4x4 pickup... straight six, manual trans... big # > old brushguard on the front... very cool vehicle... wish I'd taken # > a picture of it... you know, if I could find one of those and drop # > a Diesel in it... :) # > # > john # # ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2009 14:17:12 CDT From: Dan Black Subject: fsj: Re: fuel weights (was bus weights) diesel john said: {- Interesting info on bus weight and fuel weights, the weight of Diesel seemed {- high so I looked it up... they rounded up quite a bit, or expect a lot of water in {- their fuel. ;) {- {- Diesel about 7.1 lbs. varies with temp, 7.15lbs also listed (not 8lbs) {- water is about 8.34 lbs {- weight of biodiesel is generally reported to be 7.34 pounds per gallon {- veggie oil: Crude corn oil weighs 7.7 lbs per gallon {- gasoline is about 6.15 lbs (6.0-6.3lbs) {- {- (all weights vary by temperature due to density, or weight by volume) Actually, I think they _are_ running some sort of biodiesel, so that would put it at 7.34lbs/gal by your reports, and I could easily see them running some version that weighs even more. (And if anybody wonders if they're really doing that, I should point out the gas pumps that campus has for their Transportation Services fleet have had E85 since long before most people had even heard of it, much less seen a consumer gas station that had it. That's _not_ what they use in the busses, of course, but our campus really has often been ahead of its time in the area of bio fuels. It _is_ an aggie college. ;) ) I had always heard 7lbs/gal for gasoline... Weird that it's closer to 6. Though most of us in Iowa run ethanol, which reportedly is 6.59lbs/gal. (Iowa subsidizes ethanol, so our mid-grade (89 oct) is usually a few cents per gallon _cheaper_ than low-grade. That's been happening long enough that by now, the vast majority of cars in Iowa have always run on E10, so none of them have the problem where someone first uses ethanol in an old fuel tank and it dislodges a bunch of old gunk.) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Eat Right, Exercise... Die Anyway. - -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 19:37:33 -0700 From: Jim Blair Subject: RE: fsj: Re: fuel weights (was bus weights) In Jan 7 they changed ALL the gas pumps here in WA to minimum E10 grade. Some are evn higher. Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 > To: fsj-at-digest.net > Subject: fsj: Re: fuel weights (was bus weights) > From: dan-at-black.org > Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 14:17:12 -0500 > > diesel john said: > {- Interesting info on bus weight and fuel weights, the weight of Diesel seemed > {- high so I looked it up... they rounded up quite a bit, or expect a lot of water in > {- their fuel. ;) > {- > {- Diesel about 7.1 lbs. varies with temp, 7.15lbs also listed (not 8lbs) > {- water is about 8.34 lbs > {- weight of biodiesel is generally reported to be 7.34 pounds per gallon > {- veggie oil: Crude corn oil weighs 7.7 lbs per gallon > {- gasoline is about 6.15 lbs (6.0-6.3lbs) > {- > {- (all weights vary by temperature due to density, or weight by volume) > > Actually, I think they _are_ running some sort of biodiesel, so that > would put it at 7.34lbs/gal by your reports, and I could easily see them > running some version that weighs even more. > > (And if anybody wonders if they're really doing that, I should point out > the gas pumps that campus has for their Transportation Services fleet > have had E85 since long before most people had even heard of it, much > less seen a consumer gas station that had it. That's _not_ what they > use in the busses, of course, but our campus really has often been ahead > of its time in the area of bio fuels. It _is_ an aggie college. ;) ) > > I had always heard 7lbs/gal for gasoline... Weird that it's closer to > 6. Though most of us in Iowa run ethanol, which reportedly is > 6.59lbs/gal. (Iowa subsidizes ethanol, so our mid-grade (89 oct) is > usually a few cents per gallon _cheaper_ than low-grade. That's been > happening long enough that by now, the vast majority of cars in Iowa > have always run on E10, so none of them have the problem where someone > first uses ethanol in an old fuel tank and it dislodges a bunch of old > gunk.) > > - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- - -- > Eat Right, Exercise... Die Anyway. > -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org - -------------- _________________________________________________________________ Rediscover Hotmail.: Now available on your iPhone or BlackBerry http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Mobi le1_042009 ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #3304 **************************