From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Thu Jun 4 23:00:45 2009 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Friday, June 5 2009 Volume 01 : Number 3345 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: RE: Re: [CJ-10List] Re: fuel economy (fwd) RE: fsj: Re: [CJ-10List] Re: fuel economy (fwd) fsj: RE: Re: [CJ-10List] Re: fuel economy (fwd) fsj: Re: fuel economy (fwd) RE: fsj: Re: [CJ-10List] Re: fuel economy (fwd) RE: fsj: RE: Re: [CJ-10List] Re: fuel economy (fwd) RE: fsj: RE: Re: [CJ-10List] Re: fuel economy (fwd) FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 20:10:17 -0700 From: "Joe" Subject: fsj: RE: Re: [CJ-10List] Re: fuel economy (fwd) I can sell you the one I had out of my ol' waggie, for $60, comes with a free 727. The pump went out in the 727. Joe H. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of diesel john Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2009 7:58 PM To: cj-10 list Subject: fsj: Re: [CJ-10List] Re: fuel economy (fwd) turns out that the guy with the SD33T I found up in the mountains also has a TF727 and bellhousing... going to try to get up into the rockies by the end of june... I'm not sure if the scout tailshaft/4wd adapter will work with an NP series xfr case, but I am hoping someone on this list would have the tail end of a 727 they'd sell or donate to the jeep cause... I'm kind of pumped, I may be hooking my J10 trailer up to the '99 WJ and heading east over the mountains in a week or two... I don't think my friend has the 4.2 in my J10 yet so I could have him drop this engine in and I'll drag it home to finish the plumbing... does anyone also have the motor mounts for the SD33 from their tug left over? I noticed the scout mounts are different... Anyone in the Seattle-Portland-Spokane-Missoula area with some extra bits and pieces? The tug is doing remarkably well with the naturally aspirated SD33 after the synthetic oil and shift kit... further weight reductions will only help. The turbo version of this engine will surely push my J10 around just fine with 3.54 gears... only drawback to using a TF727 is no overdrive... but 5 mph difference in RPM isn't too serious... if highway performance becomes an issue I could go to larger tires, going to 31's would just about make it the same as the 3.31 gears/235s I have on the tug... john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Thu, 4 Jun 2009, david-at-lang.hm wrote: # On Thu, 4 Jun 2009, diesel john wrote: # # > well, we could start bidding on the parts, and I'll drag it home # > this weekend... I'd want to keep the starter and the alternator... :) # # I can live with that. # # David Lang # # > # > # > ----- # > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org # > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us # > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > # > # > On Thu, 4 Jun 2009, david-at-lang.hm wrote: # > # > # On Wed, 3 Jun 2009, diesel john wrote: # > # # > # > Richard, # > # > # > # > That is a WEALTH of information, awesome! Thanx! # > # > # > # > It's amazing how complex this has become... # > # > # > # > both my '86 cj-10a and '83 J10 stepside are driver's side drop. # > # > # > # > The SD33T I've found is an unknown quantity at this point... it turns # > # > over smoothly according to the guy, and he had bought it along with the # > # > terra as the pick of the litter from another IH fan. It's supposedly an # > # > '80 motor in a '76 Terra, he's not sure if the T19 is close ratio or not... # > # # > # it would be. the wide ratio gearboxes are really not useable with the SD33 # > # without a gear splitter. you end up with several speeds where you just # > # don't have a gear to operate in. # > # # > # > The other SD33T I found locally has "issues"... IP was swapped, the turbo # > # > may be seized and the water pump is frozen... they want $250 as is... it does # > # > have a starter and alternator so it might be good for spares... if I had a place # > # > to store it. # > # # > # that's a good price for parts. If I had a relativly cheap way to get it # > # down to southern california I'd be interested in it. # > # # > # If nothing else, I _am_ interested in parts from it. I know that I need a # > # set of manifolds, the IP and crankshaft would be handy, and possibly the # > # starter and head (I guess that doesn't leave much else ;-) # > # # > # David Lang # > # # > # ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 21:23:00 -0700 From: Jim Blair Subject: RE: fsj: Re: [CJ-10List] Re: fuel economy (fwd) The Scout adapter won't work unless you find one from an '80 with D300 and round flange like FSJs use. That motor at Oly was NOT a turbo engine. It was a regular motor with the turbo tagged on (which explains it's other issues). The real deal has a raised pad with SD33T stamped into it and even the valve cover brags about it. I might still have a parts 727 in my "storage shed" ('71 IH Loadstar) I'll be sure to look for it when I go to the cabin tomorrow. Trying to empty it out so I can head to the scrap yard with it soon (loading up ALL the stuff that I can't sell or use in the next year) Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 > Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 19:57:59 -0700 > From: dieseljohn-at-comcast.net > To: CJ-10List-at-yahoogroups.com > Subject: fsj: Re: [CJ-10List] Re: fuel economy (fwd) > > turns out that the guy with the SD33T I found up in the mountains also > has a TF727 and bellhousing... going to try to get up into the rockies > by the end of june... > > I'm not sure if the scout tailshaft/4wd adapter will work with an > NP series xfr case, but I am hoping someone > on this list would have the tail end of a 727 they'd sell or donate > to the jeep cause... I'm kind of pumped, I may be hooking my J10 trailer > up to the '99 WJ and heading east over the mountains in a week or two... > > I don't think my friend has the 4.2 in my J10 yet so I could have him > drop this engine in and I'll drag it home to finish the plumbing... > > does anyone also have the motor mounts for the SD33 from their tug > left over? I noticed the scout mounts are different... > > Anyone in the Seattle-Portland-Spokane-Missoula area with some extra bits and pieces? > > The tug is doing remarkably well with the naturally aspirated SD33 after > the synthetic oil and shift kit... further weight reductions will only help. > > The turbo version of this engine will surely push my J10 around just fine > with 3.54 gears... only drawback to using a TF727 is no overdrive... but > 5 mph difference in RPM isn't too serious... if highway performance becomes > an issue I could go to larger tires, going to 31's would just about make > it the same as the 3.31 gears/235s I have on the tug... > > john > > > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > On Thu, 4 Jun 2009, david-at-lang.hm wrote: > > # On Thu, 4 Jun 2009, diesel john wrote: > # > #> well, we could start bidding on the parts, and I'll drag it home > #> this weekend... I'd want to keep the starter and the alternator... :) > # > # I can live with that. > # > # David Lang > # > #> > #> > #> ----- > #> - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > #> Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > #> http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org > #> http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us > #> - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > #> > # _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live^Y SkyDrive^Y: Get 25 GB of free online storage. http://windowslive.com/online/skydrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_SD_25GB_062009 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 22:04:53 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: RE: Re: [CJ-10List] Re: fuel economy (fwd) which xfr case? the tailshaft and 4wd adapter is all I should need, not sure if I'll use my NP219 or my NP208 in superdawg... probably the np208. when I switched omega from the blown NP228 to the NP219 I noticed it was a lot harder to turn in tight spaces... don't really need the full time 4wd setup with a smaller Diesel... Omega had a limited slip and really didn't need full time either... john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Thu, 4 Jun 2009, Joe wrote: # I can sell you the one I had out of my ol' waggie, for $60, comes with a # free 727. # # The pump went out in the 727. # # Joe H. # # -----Original Message----- # From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of diesel # john # Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2009 7:58 PM # To: cj-10 list # Subject: fsj: Re: [CJ-10List] Re: fuel economy (fwd) # # turns out that the guy with the SD33T I found up in the mountains also # has a TF727 and bellhousing... going to try to get up into the rockies # by the end of june... # # I'm not sure if the scout tailshaft/4wd adapter will work with an # NP series xfr case, but I am hoping someone # on this list would have the tail end of a 727 they'd sell or donate # to the jeep cause... I'm kind of pumped, I may be hooking my J10 trailer # up to the '99 WJ and heading east over the mountains in a week or two... # # I don't think my friend has the 4.2 in my J10 yet so I could have him # drop this engine in and I'll drag it home to finish the plumbing... # # does anyone also have the motor mounts for the SD33 from their tug # left over? I noticed the scout mounts are different... # # Anyone in the Seattle-Portland-Spokane-Missoula area with some extra bits # and pieces? # # The tug is doing remarkably well with the naturally aspirated SD33 after # the synthetic oil and shift kit... further weight reductions will only # help. # # The turbo version of this engine will surely push my J10 around just fine # with 3.54 gears... only drawback to using a TF727 is no overdrive... but # 5 mph difference in RPM isn't too serious... if highway performance becomes # an issue I could go to larger tires, going to 31's would just about make # it the same as the 3.31 gears/235s I have on the tug... # # john # # # ----- # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org # http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # # # On Thu, 4 Jun 2009, david-at-lang.hm wrote: # # # On Thu, 4 Jun 2009, diesel john wrote: # # # # > well, we could start bidding on the parts, and I'll drag it home # # > this weekend... I'd want to keep the starter and the alternator... :) # # # # I can live with that. # # # # David Lang # # # # > # # > # # > ----- # # > # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # # > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org # # > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us # # > # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # # > # # > # # > On Thu, 4 Jun 2009, david-at-lang.hm wrote: # # > # # > # On Wed, 3 Jun 2009, diesel john wrote: # # > # # # > # > Richard, # # > # > # # > # > That is a WEALTH of information, awesome! Thanx! # # > # > # # > # > It's amazing how complex this has become... # # > # > # # > # > both my '86 cj-10a and '83 J10 stepside are driver's side drop. # # > # > # # > # > The SD33T I've found is an unknown quantity at this point... it # turns # # > # > over smoothly according to the guy, and he had bought it along with # the # # > # > terra as the pick of the litter from another IH fan. It's # supposedly an # # > # > '80 motor in a '76 Terra, he's not sure if the T19 is close ratio # or not... # # > # # # > # it would be. the wide ratio gearboxes are really not useable with the # SD33 # # > # without a gear splitter. you end up with several speeds where you # just # # > # don't have a gear to operate in. # # > # # # > # > The other SD33T I found locally has "issues"... IP was swapped, the # turbo # # > # > may be seized and the water pump is frozen... they want $250 as # is... it does # # > # > have a starter and alternator so it might be good for spares... if # I had a place # # > # > to store it. # # > # # # > # that's a good price for parts. If I had a relativly cheap way to get # it # # > # down to southern california I'd be interested in it. # # > # # # > # If nothing else, I _am_ interested in parts from it. I know that I # need a # # > # set of manifolds, the IP and crankshaft would be handy, and possibly # the # # > # starter and head (I guess that doesn't leave much else ;-) # # > # # # > # David Lang # # > # # # > # # # ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 22:11:43 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: fuel economy (fwd) yeah, recognize that the Dana 300 would be better... hmmmm, maybe I should buy the ford Dana 300 from my son, it's driver's side drop... thoughts? My concern is the extra weight... but how much more could a dana 300 weigh over an NP208 anyway? :) john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Thu, 4 Jun 2009, Kevin wrote: # Check with your scout buddies. Turbo scout would likely have a texas pattern # to it, with dana 300. Drop aside, I'd take it over a NP any day. # # But that's if it was a manual... # # On Thu, Jun 04, 2009 at 07:57:59PM -0700, diesel john wrote: # > turns out that the guy with the SD33T I found up in the mountains also # > has a TF727 and bellhousing... going to try to get up into the rockies # > by the end of june... # > # > I'm not sure if the scout tailshaft/4wd adapter will work with an # > NP series xfr case, but I am hoping someone # > on this list would have the tail end of a 727 they'd sell or donate # > to the jeep cause... I'm kind of pumped, I may be hooking my J10 trailer # > up to the '99 WJ and heading east over the mountains in a week or two... # > # > I don't think my friend has the 4.2 in my J10 yet so I could have him # > drop this engine in and I'll drag it home to finish the plumbing... # > # > does anyone also have the motor mounts for the SD33 from their tug # > left over? I noticed the scout mounts are different... # > # > Anyone in the Seattle-Portland-Spokane-Missoula area with some extra bits and pieces? # > # > The tug is doing remarkably well with the naturally aspirated SD33 after # > the synthetic oil and shift kit... further weight reductions will only help. # > # > The turbo version of this engine will surely push my J10 around just fine # > with 3.54 gears... only drawback to using a TF727 is no overdrive... but # > 5 mph difference in RPM isn't too serious... if highway performance becomes # > an issue I could go to larger tires, going to 31's would just about make # > it the same as the 3.31 gears/235s I have on the tug... # ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 22:16:22 -0700 (PDT) From: diesel john Subject: RE: fsj: Re: [CJ-10List] Re: fuel economy (fwd) I can look for the stamping on the block... not sure when I can get back over there, maybe tomorrow afternoon, have to run up to the dentist in lake stevens, could come back down the back way and check... the yard wrench said it was puffing white smoke when they ran it, and that he couldn't spin the turbo... they swapped the IP out with their fork lift... but I may get it for the starter and alternator, have a buyer for the cam/head/intake and something else... the rest can wait with my 1,210 block of steel for scrap prices too climb. :) speaking of weight, picked up some new extended u-bolts from aalbu bros in everett and installed my 1.5" blocks... removed the coil overloads... they weren't touching, but when I drove it they'd hit and bounce me back up... so I just have the mild add-a-leafs in place... driveshaft has space on the sleeve, so no shuddering... will give it an extended drive tomorrow, hoping the add-a-leafs aren't too much, and if they are will be hoping the blocks will be enough to keep the driveshaft from compression and the frame from the top of the axle. john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Thu, 4 Jun 2009, Jim Blair wrote: # # The Scout adapter won't work unless you find one from an '80 with D300 and round flange like FSJs use. That motor at Oly was NOT a turbo engine. It was a regular motor with the turbo tagged on (which explains it's other issues). The real deal has a raised pad with SD33T stamped into it and even the valve cover brags about it. I might still have a parts 727 in my "storage shed" ('71 IH Loadstar) I'll be sure to look for it when I go to the cabin tomorrow. Trying to empty it out so I can head to the scrap yard with it soon (loading up ALL the stuff that I can't sell or use in the next year) # # Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 # # # # # > Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 19:57:59 -0700 # > From: dieseljohn-at-comcast.net # > To: CJ-10List-at-yahoogroups.com # > Subject: fsj: Re: [CJ-10List] Re: fuel economy (fwd) # > # > turns out that the guy with the SD33T I found up in the mountains also # > has a TF727 and bellhousing... going to try to get up into the rockies # > by the end of june... # > # > I'm not sure if the scout tailshaft/4wd adapter will work with an # > NP series xfr case, but I am hoping someone # > on this list would have the tail end of a 727 they'd sell or donate # > to the jeep cause... I'm kind of pumped, I may be hooking my J10 trailer # > up to the '99 WJ and heading east over the mountains in a week or two... # > # > I don't think my friend has the 4.2 in my J10 yet so I could have him # > drop this engine in and I'll drag it home to finish the plumbing... # > # > does anyone also have the motor mounts for the SD33 from their tug # > left over? I noticed the scout mounts are different... # > # > Anyone in the Seattle-Portland-Spokane-Missoula area with some extra bits and pieces? # > # > The tug is doing remarkably well with the naturally aspirated SD33 after # > the synthetic oil and shift kit... further weight reductions will only help. # > # > The turbo version of this engine will surely push my J10 around just fine # > with 3.54 gears... only drawback to using a TF727 is no overdrive... but # > 5 mph difference in RPM isn't too serious... if highway performance becomes # > an issue I could go to larger tires, going to 31's would just about make # > it the same as the 3.31 gears/235s I have on the tug... # > # > john # > # > # > ----- # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org # > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > # > # > On Thu, 4 Jun 2009, david-at-lang.hm wrote: # > # > # On Thu, 4 Jun 2009, diesel john wrote: # > # # > #> well, we could start bidding on the parts, and I'll drag it home # > #> this weekend... I'd want to keep the starter and the alternator... :) # > # # > # I can live with that. # > # # > # David Lang # > # # > #> # > #> # > #> ----- # > #> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > #> Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > #> http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org # > #> http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us # > #> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > #> # > # # # _________________________________________________________________ # Windows Live(TM) SkyDrive(TM): Get 25 GB of free online storage. # http://windowslive.com/online/skydrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_SD_25GB_062009 # ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 22:32:33 -0700 From: Jim Blair Subject: RE: fsj: RE: Re: [CJ-10List] Re: fuel economy (fwd) The NP208 uses less fuel. Less stress/drag on the motor in 2wd too. Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 - ---------------------------------------- > Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 22:04:53 -0700 > From: john-at-wagoneers.com > To: joe-at-j-hughes.com > CC: fsj-at-digest.net > Subject: fsj: RE: Re: [CJ-10List] Re: fuel economy (fwd) > > which xfr case? the tailshaft and 4wd adapter is all I should need, > not sure if I'll use my NP219 or my NP208 in superdawg... probably > the np208. > > when I switched omega from the blown NP228 to the NP219 I noticed > it was a lot harder to turn in tight spaces... don't really need > the full time 4wd setup with a smaller Diesel... Omega had a limited > slip and really didn't need full time either... > > john _________________________________________________________________ Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail.. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutoria l_QuickAdd_062009 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 23:00:05 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: RE: fsj: RE: Re: [CJ-10List] Re: fuel economy (fwd) I've experimented around with this... seen very little difference between 2wd and full time... really... I've seen more difference (1 mpg in fact) between the power and comfort mode on the earlier 4.0s. ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Thu, 4 Jun 2009, Jim Blair wrote: # # # The NP208 uses less fuel. Less stress/drag on the motor in 2wd too. # # # Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 # # # # # # # ---------------------------------------- # > Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 22:04:53 -0700 # > From: john-at-wagoneers.com # > To: joe-at-j-hughes.com # > CC: fsj-at-digest.net # > Subject: fsj: RE: Re: [CJ-10List] Re: fuel economy (fwd) # > # > which xfr case? the tailshaft and 4wd adapter is all I should need, # > not sure if I'll use my NP219 or my NP208 in superdawg... probably # > the np208. # > # > when I switched omega from the blown NP228 to the NP219 I noticed # > it was a lot harder to turn in tight spaces... don't really need # > the full time 4wd setup with a smaller Diesel... Omega had a limited # > slip and really didn't need full time either... # > # > john # # _________________________________________________________________ # Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail.. # http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutoria l_QuickAdd_062009 # ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #3345 **************************