From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Mon Jun 8 13:51:00 2009 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Monday, June 8 2009 Volume 01 : Number 3348 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: fsj: Frames, weights and being a little nuts RE: fsj: Frames, weights and being a little nuts fsj: Re: Frames, weights and being a little nuts fsj: Re: Frames, weights and being a little nuts RE: fsj: Frames, weights and being a little nuts RE: fsj: Frames, weights and being a little nuts FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 22:07:16 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Frames, weights and being a little nuts I think the body is strong enough on it's own... unless of course it's got a lot of rust in structural locations... I've dismantled a few of these things and they hold up even if you cut them into large pieces and roll them around... :) check it out: http://wagoneers.com/fotos/johns-cars/thetailgate.jpg ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Mon, 8 Jun 2009, wallacem7-at-aol.com wrote: # Good to know that 2x4s on sawhorses will support a Wagoneer body. Not that I am going to attempt it, but I had guessed based on my time at Chrysler dealing with Ram and Durango bodies that it's around 700 lbs. 350 lbs on a 2x4 actually sounds fairly reasonable....not that I have any intention of attempting setting a full body down on 2x4's. ? # # Here's what I plan to do...if anybody sees any holes in this plan just say the word. I will start repairing the body with it on the frame...I need to do rocker panels, both quarters and the floor. I will also re-skin both drivers side doors, but re-skinning doors is a cake walk. With the body basically solid I will unbolt it from the frame and put eye bolts through the body mount holes and then lift it with a cherry picker. I will then put the body on the rolling dolly that I am building with the idea that I will use it first on my MGB, second on my Wagoneer and third on Dad's Model A. This way I can roll the body outside to sandblast, and then shoot the whole thing in the?correct early 80's metal flake dark red paint and then re-attach it to the restored frame. Do I need to shore up the body at all before I pull it? Weld in X-bracing across the door openings or a surrogate frame across the floor? (X bracing across the doors?is essential for replacing the sills...rocker panels in American... in an MGB) # # As for the frame I will try to repair the origional. An no, that doesn't make a ton of sense when I can realistically just replace the whole thing. When I was restoring exotics for a living one thing that we always did was preserve as much as the origional car as possible and that has just become habit. I'm pretty sure that I'm not as bad as those Corvette guys who insist on using 1950's paint technology because that's what GM used back in the day...or duplicating the factory inspection marks or scratching the frame the same way the assembly line did. # # Mark Wallace # 81 Wagoneer # ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 05:49:13 +0000 From: Michel Balea Subject: RE: fsj: Frames, weights and being a little nuts The 2x4 will bend slightly.... I cannot find the post with the pictures..... but the owner doubled the 2x4, and IIRC he had removed the front clip. The main issue is to have a level ground..... so you do not loose body parts downhill. a little perseverance.... http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=66564 Quote: Originally Posted by letank very impressive.... congratulations. how do you trust those 2x4 sawhorses..... I am due for a bodyswap.... and collecting any usefull pieces of informations..... You may see in the last photos that the front crossmember of the sawhorse got switched from a 2x4 to a 2x6 as it was bowing a little more than I liked. I think it's fairly stable except for a large hit from the side would do it in. Basically I originally thought I could work a bit on the body while it was up, but once I got it there I changed my mind and now only plan on working on it once it's back on the frame. To pull the body I used two engine hoists. One in through the tailgate and one through the driver's side door. I ran eyebolts through body mounts conected to a chain (which I ran through a 2x4 with holes drilled in it to keep the eyebolts from tweeking the sheetmetal off to the side) and then lifted front and rear simultaneously. I picked it up high enough that I could roll the frame in and out without taking off the tires as the next step is to roll the frame into the garage to put in the engine, gas tank, and run all my hard lines before putting the body back on. et voila..... Michel 74 wagoneer > Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 22:07:16 -0700 > From: john-at-wagoneers.com > To: wallacem7-at-aol.com > CC: fsj-digest-at-digest.net > Subject: Re: fsj: Frames, weights and being a little nuts > > I think the body is strong enough on it's own... unless of course it's got a > lot > of rust in structural locations... I've dismantled a few of these things and > they > hold up even if you cut them into large pieces and roll them around... :) > > check it out: > http://wagoneers.com/fotos/johns-cars/thetailgate.jpg > > > > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > On Mon, 8 Jun 2009, wallacem7-at-aol.com wrote: > > # Good to know that 2x4s on sawhorses will support a Wagoneer body. Not that > I am going to attempt it, but I had guessed based on my time at Chrysler > dealing with Ram and Durango bodies that it's around 700 lbs. 350 lbs on a 2x4 > actually sounds fairly reasonable....not that I have any intention of > attempting setting a full body down on 2x4's. ? > # > # Here's what I plan to do...if anybody sees any holes in this plan just say > the word. I will start repairing the body with it on the frame...I need to do > rocker panels, both quarters and the floor. I will also re-skin both drivers > side doors, but re-skinning doors is a cake walk. With the body basically > solid I will unbolt it from the frame and put eye bolts through the body mount > holes and then lift it with a cherry picker. I will then put the body on the > rolling dolly that I am building with the idea that I will use it first on my > MGB, second on my Wagoneer and third on Dad's Model A. This way I can roll the > body outside to sandblast, and then shoot the whole thing in the?correct early > 80's metal flake dark red paint and then re-attach it to the restored frame. > Do I need to shore up the body at all before I pull it? Weld in X-bracing > across the door openings or a surrogate frame across the floor? (X bracing > across the doors?is essential for replacing the sills...rocker panels in > American... in an MGB) > # > # As for the frame I will try to repair the origional. An no, that doesn't > make a ton of sense when I can realistically just replace the whole thing. > When I was restoring exotics for a living one thing that we always did was > preserve as much as the origional car as possible and that has just become > habit. I'm pretty sure that I'm not as bad as those Corvette guys who insist > on using 1950's paint technology because that's what GM used back in the > day...or duplicating the factory inspection marks or scratching the frame the > same way the assembly line did. > # > # Mark Wallace > # 81 Wagoneer > # _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail. has ever-growing storage! Don^Rt worry about storage limits. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Storage?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial _Storage_062009 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 06:53:08 -0400 From: "Neal Hoover" Subject: fsj: Re: Frames, weights and being a little nuts that's exactly what i did with my j-truck body parts. the front clip was disassembled and worked separately, but i made separate carts for the cab and the bed. http://rides.webshots.com/photo/1359967949038855390mTfWLd http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2276525850038855390RCtRgk i don't have any really good pics of the carts, but the last one shows both carts empty at the paint shop before i disassembled them there so they could paint easily. i also used the carts extensively in my own shop before going to paint to do all body repairs as you had mentioned. it's truely the only way to go. the only catch i'd mention to you is that i'd try to prep/rust proof the bottom of the entire body before moving on to the parts that you see. it's a necessary step, and it gets that dirty work out of the way before you mess up the pretty work. Neal A. Hoover Project '76 J-10 Project '96 XJ http://community.webshots.com/user/proj96xj - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 12:34 AM Subject: fsj: Frames, weights and being a little nuts > Good to know that 2x4s on sawhorses will support a Wagoneer body. Not that I am going to attempt it, but I had guessed based on my time at Chrysler dealing with Ram and Durango bodies that it's around 700 lbs. 350 lbs on a 2x4 actually sounds fairly reasonable....not that I have any intention of attempting setting a full body down on 2x4's. ? > > Here's what I plan to do...if anybody sees any holes in this plan just say the word. I will start repairing the body with it on the frame...I need to do rocker panels, both quarters and the floor. I will also re-skin both drivers side doors, but re-skinning doors is a cake walk. With the body basically solid I will unbolt it from the frame and put eye bolts through the body mount holes and then lift it with a cherry picker. I will then put the body on the rolling dolly that I am building with the idea that I will use it first on my MGB, second on my Wagoneer and third on Dad's Model A. This way I can roll the body outside to sandblast, and then shoot the whole thing in the?correct early 80's metal flake dark red paint and then re-attach it to the restored frame. Do I need to shore up the body at all before I pull it? Weld in X-bracing across the door openings or a surrogate frame across the floor? (X bracing across the doors?is essential for replacing the sills...rocker panels in American... in an MGB) > > As for the frame I will try to repair the origional. An no, that doesn't make a ton of sense when I can realistically just replace the whole thing. When I was restoring exotics for a living one thing that we always did was preserve as much as the origional car as possible and that has just become habit. I'm pretty sure that I'm not as bad as those Corvette guys who insist on using 1950's paint technology because that's what GM used back in the day...or duplicating the factory inspection marks or scratching the frame the same way the assembly line did. > > Mark Wallace > 81 Wagoneer ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 06:56:12 -0400 From: "Neal Hoover" Subject: fsj: Re: Frames, weights and being a little nuts ah - i just found a decent pic of my bed cart... http://rides.webshots.com/photo/1136104824038855390fWEhDH Neal A. Hoover Project '76 J-10 Project '96 XJ http://community.webshots.com/user/proj96xj - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 12:34 AM Subject: fsj: Frames, weights and being a little nuts > Good to know that 2x4s on sawhorses will support a Wagoneer body. Not that I am going to attempt it, but I had guessed based on my time at Chrysler dealing with Ram and Durango bodies that it's around 700 lbs. 350 lbs on a 2x4 actually sounds fairly reasonable....not that I have any intention of attempting setting a full body down on 2x4's. ? > > Here's what I plan to do...if anybody sees any holes in this plan just say the word. I will start repairing the body with it on the frame...I need to do rocker panels, both quarters and the floor. I will also re-skin both drivers side doors, but re-skinning doors is a cake walk. With the body basically solid I will unbolt it from the frame and put eye bolts through the body mount holes and then lift it with a cherry picker. I will then put the body on the rolling dolly that I am building with the idea that I will use it first on my MGB, second on my Wagoneer and third on Dad's Model A. This way I can roll the body outside to sandblast, and then shoot the whole thing in the?correct early 80's metal flake dark red paint and then re-attach it to the restored frame. Do I need to shore up the body at all before I pull it? Weld in X-bracing across the door openings or a surrogate frame across the floor? (X bracing across the doors?is essential for replacing the sills...rocker panels in American... in an MGB) > > As for the frame I will try to repair the origional. An no, that doesn't make a ton of sense when I can realistically just replace the whole thing. When I was restoring exotics for a living one thing that we always did was preserve as much as the origional car as possible and that has just become habit. I'm pretty sure that I'm not as bad as those Corvette guys who insist on using 1950's paint technology because that's what GM used back in the day...or duplicating the factory inspection marks or scratching the frame the same way the assembly line did. > > Mark Wallace > 81 Wagoneer ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 09:27:13 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: RE: fsj: Frames, weights and being a little nuts wow... that' looks frightening... imagine if that fell off... trying to get it back up... :) ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Mon, 8 Jun 2009, Michel Balea wrote: # # The 2x4 will bend slightly.... I cannot find the post with the pictures..... but the owner doubled the 2x4, and IIRC he had removed the front clip. # # The main issue is to have a level ground..... so you do not loose body parts downhill. # # a little perseverance.... # # http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=66564 # # # Quote: # # # # # Originally Posted by letank # very impressive.... congratulations. # # # # how do you trust those 2x4 sawhorses..... # # # # I am due for a bodyswap.... and collecting any usefull pieces of informations..... # # # # # # # # You may see in the last photos that the front crossmember of the # sawhorse got switched from a 2x4 to a 2x6 as it was bowing a little # more than I liked. I think it's fairly stable except for a large hit # from the side would do it in. Basically I originally thought I could # work a bit on the body while it was up, but once I got it there I # changed my mind and now only plan on working on it once it's back on # the frame. # # # # To pull the body I used two engine hoists. One in through the tailgate # and one through the driver's side door. I ran eyebolts through body # mounts conected to a chain (which I ran through a 2x4 with holes # drilled in it to keep the eyebolts from tweeking the sheetmetal off to # the side) and then lifted front and rear simultaneously. I picked it up # high enough that I could roll the frame in and out without taking off # the tires as the next step is to roll the frame into the garage to put # in the engine, gas tank, and run all my hard lines before putting the # body back on. # # et voila..... # # Michel # 74 wagoneer # # > Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 22:07:16 -0700 # > From: john-at-wagoneers.com # > To: wallacem7-at-aol.com # > CC: fsj-digest-at-digest.net # > Subject: Re: fsj: Frames, weights and being a little nuts # > # > I think the body is strong enough on it's own... unless of course it's got a # > lot # > of rust in structural locations... I've dismantled a few of these things and # > they # > hold up even if you cut them into large pieces and roll them around... :) # > # > check it out: # > http://wagoneers.com/fotos/johns-cars/thetailgate.jpg # > # > # > # > ----- # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org # > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > # > # > On Mon, 8 Jun 2009, wallacem7-at-aol.com wrote: # > # > # Good to know that 2x4s on sawhorses will support a Wagoneer body. Not that # > I am going to attempt it, but I had guessed based on my time at Chrysler # > dealing with Ram and Durango bodies that it's around 700 lbs. 350 lbs on a 2x4 # > actually sounds fairly reasonable....not that I have any intention of # > attempting setting a full body down on 2x4's. ? # > # # > # Here's what I plan to do...if anybody sees any holes in this plan just say # > the word. I will start repairing the body with it on the frame...I need to do # > rocker panels, both quarters and the floor. I will also re-skin both drivers # > side doors, but re-skinning doors is a cake walk. With the body basically # > solid I will unbolt it from the frame and put eye bolts through the body mount # > holes and then lift it with a cherry picker. I will then put the body on the # > rolling dolly that I am building with the idea that I will use it first on my # > MGB, second on my Wagoneer and third on Dad's Model A. This way I can roll the # > body outside to sandblast, and then shoot the whole thing in the?correct early # > 80's metal flake dark red paint and then re-attach it to the restored frame. # > Do I need to shore up the body at all before I pull it? Weld in X-bracing # > across the door openings or a surrogate frame across the floor? (X bracing # > across the doors?is essential for replacing the sills...rocker panels in # > American... in an MGB) # > # # > # As for the frame I will try to repair the origional. An no, that doesn't # > make a ton of sense when I can realistically just replace the whole thing. # > When I was restoring exotics for a living one thing that we always did was # > preserve as much as the origional car as possible and that has just become # > habit. I'm pretty sure that I'm not as bad as those Corvette guys who insist # > on using 1950's paint technology because that's what GM used back in the # > day...or duplicating the factory inspection marks or scratching the frame the # > same way the assembly line did. # > # # > # Mark Wallace # > # 81 Wagoneer # > # # # _________________________________________________________________ # Hotmail. has ever-growing storage! Don't worry about storage limits. # http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Storage?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial _Storage_062009 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 20:49:57 +0000 From: Michel Balea Subject: RE: fsj: Frames, weights and being a little nuts Exactly..... you can see the 2x4 bending... just slightly.... Michel > Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 09:27:13 -0700 > From: john-at-wagoneers.com > To: mbalea-at-hotmail.com > CC: wallacem7-at-aol.com; fsj-digest-at-digest.net > Subject: RE: fsj: Frames, weights and being a little nuts > > wow... that' looks frightening... > > imagine if that fell off... trying to get it back up... :) > > > > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > On Mon, 8 Jun 2009, Michel Balea wrote: > > # > # The 2x4 will bend slightly.... I cannot find the post with the > pictures..... but the owner doubled the 2x4, and IIRC he had removed the > front clip. > # > # The main issue is to have a level ground..... so you do not loose body > parts downhill. > # > # a little perseverance.... > # > # http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=66564 > # > # > # Quote: > # > # > # > # > # Originally Posted by letank > # very impressive.... congratulations. > # > # > # > # how do you trust those 2x4 sawhorses..... > # > # > # > # I am due for a bodyswap.... and collecting any usefull pieces of > informations..... > # > # > # > # > # > # > # > # You may see in the last photos that the front crossmember of the > # sawhorse got switched from a 2x4 to a 2x6 as it was bowing a little > # more than I liked. I think it's fairly stable except for a large hit > # from the side would do it in. Basically I originally thought I could > # work a bit on the body while it was up, but once I got it there I > # changed my mind and now only plan on working on it once it's back on > # the frame. > # > # > # > # To pull the body I used two engine hoists. One in through the tailgate > # and one through the driver's side door. I ran eyebolts through body > # mounts conected to a chain (which I ran through a 2x4 with holes > # drilled in it to keep the eyebolts from tweeking the sheetmetal off to > # the side) and then lifted front and rear simultaneously. I picked it up > # high enough that I could roll the frame in and out without taking off > # the tires as the next step is to roll the frame into the garage to put > # in the engine, gas tank, and run all my hard lines before putting the > # body back on. > # > # et voila..... > # > # Michel > # 74 wagoneer > # > # > Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 22:07:16 -0700 > # > From: john-at-wagoneers.com > # > To: wallacem7-at-aol.com > # > CC: fsj-digest-at-digest.net > # > Subject: Re: fsj: Frames, weights and being a little nuts > # > > # > I think the body is strong enough on it's own... unless of course it's > got a > # > lot > # > of rust in structural locations... I've dismantled a few of these things > and > # > they > # > hold up even if you cut them into large pieces and roll them around... > :) > # > > # > check it out: > # > http://wagoneers.com/fotos/johns-cars/thetailgate.jpg > # > > # > > # > > # > ----- > # > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > # > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org > # > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us > # > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > # > > # > > # > On Mon, 8 Jun 2009, wallacem7-at-aol.com wrote: > # > > # > # Good to know that 2x4s on sawhorses will support a Wagoneer body. Not > that > # > I am going to attempt it, but I had guessed based on my time at Chrysler > # > dealing with Ram and Durango bodies that it's around 700 lbs. 350 lbs on > a 2x4 > # > actually sounds fairly reasonable....not that I have any intention of > # > attempting setting a full body down on 2x4's. ? > # > # > # > # Here's what I plan to do...if anybody sees any holes in this plan just > say > # > the word. I will start repairing the body with it on the frame...I need > to do > # > rocker panels, both quarters and the floor. I will also re-skin both > drivers > # > side doors, but re-skinning doors is a cake walk. With the body > basically > # > solid I will unbolt it from the frame and put eye bolts through the body > mount > # > holes and then lift it with a cherry picker. I will then put the body on > the > # > rolling dolly that I am building with the idea that I will use it first > on my > # > MGB, second on my Wagoneer and third on Dad's Model A. This way I can > roll the > # > body outside to sandblast, and then shoot the whole thing in the?correct > early > # > 80's metal flake dark red paint and then re-attach it to the restored > frame. > # > Do I need to shore up the body at all before I pull it? Weld in > X-bracing > # > across the door openings or a surrogate frame across the floor? (X > bracing > # > across the doors?is essential for replacing the sills...rocker panels in > # > American... in an MGB) > # > # > # > # As for the frame I will try to repair the origional. An no, that > doesn't > # > make a ton of sense when I can realistically just replace the whole > thing. > # > When I was restoring exotics for a living one thing that we always did > was > # > preserve as much as the origional car as possible and that has just > become > # > habit. I'm pretty sure that I'm not as bad as those Corvette guys who > insist > # > on using 1950's paint technology because that's what GM used back in the > # > day...or duplicating the factory inspection marks or scratching the frame > the > # > same way the assembly line did. > # > # > # > # Mark Wallace > # > # 81 Wagoneer > # > # > # > # _________________________________________________________________ > # Hotmail. has ever-growing storage! Don't worry about storage limits. > # > http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Storage?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial > _Storage_062009 _________________________________________________________________ Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC that^Rs right for you. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/choosepc/?ocid=ftp_val_wl_290 ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #3348 **************************