From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Thu Jun 18 12:36:13 2009 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Thursday, June 18 2009 Volume 01 : Number 3359 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: fsj: Diesel Cherokee or J10? Re: fsj: mity-vac brake bleeder RE: fsj: Diesel Cherokee or J10? fsj: Re: [CJ-10List] Jeep NP-208 to GM TH400 fsj: Re: xj: Cracked head... RE: fsj: Re: [CJ-10List] Jeep NP-208 to GM TH400 fsj: headliners RE: fsj: headliners fsj: My newest toy FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 12:12:37 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Diesel Cherokee or J10? I had one... 0 to 60 in 19 seconds. but you are absolutely right about the parts... back when they were available at the dealer they were horribly expensive... fwiw, a 300SD engine will not fit in a pre-'87 XJ, not enough room... firewall is in the way. :) Heading for Idaho tomorrow morning to pick up the SD33T engines/trans for my J10... I may go for the Diesel XJ, depends on the pictures, still waiting... would love to put a 3.0L TD I-6 out of an '87 300D, or a 2.5L TD I-5 out of a '91 into a Jeep, love my '91 300D. Those engines are all superb... Can't beat a Mercedes Diesel... other than the 3.5 all of them have been superb. john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Wed, 17 Jun 2009, Stephen Cahill wrote: # Hi John # Those French diesels were very slow even when new.Look at the 0 to 60MPH on # them. # Engine parts are non existent in the USA.Or arm, leg and other body parts. # You would not want to drive in the mountains with it. # # Go with the 300SD engine. # # Stephen # # # On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 12:11 PM, john wrote: # # > being tempted with an '85 Cherokee with the 2.1L Turbo Diesel/5 speed... # > manual windows, a/c, manual locks... pioneer model... # > # > of course it has a few issues, nothing serious... well, that I # > know of... # > # > haven't seen detailed pictures or driven it... the guy is a relatively # > straight # > shooter, not completely full of baloney. # > # > the clutch master cylinder is shot, the a/c compressor is dead... # > manual windows, looks like the paint on the hood is shot... 147k on it. # > # > my wife hates my J10, so putting an SD33T/t19 in it, or having # > a Diesel cherokee is, as she put it, a "no-brainer". # > # > I had an '85 XJ with the all aluminum 2.1L Renault Turbo Diesel. It's # > a wet sleeved engine assembled with o-rings. has a bosch in line injection # > pump (cam style), either a paris-rhone alternator and vacuum pump, or a # > bosch, both give trouble... of course since it's an '85 it'll have issues # > with the wobble-o-death, tailgate cracking but that's about it, oh yeah, # > the rear wiper motor, also a normal fatality in the xj's. And it's not # > going # > to be all that nice... (low expectations... ;) # > # > thoughts? # > DIESEL: cj-10a, j10 or xj? # > # > whatever it is, it must be a Diesel... since my J10 s still in pieces # > my wife isn't counting it... # > # > since the 2.1 is very expensive to repair, I should get the SD33t with long # > term plans of converting my J10... the French Diesel will die, might last # > a # > few years, and that'll probably be how long it takes me to get superdawg # > setup. # > # > # > Michel, can you get Renault/Jeep parts easy enough? :) # > # > How hard is it to replace the clutch master cylinder? Jim, does napa carry # > those? # > # > If that 2.1L TD goes tango uniform there isn't much hope of installing # > anything # > larger... the pre-'87 xj's won't fit a straight six... engine bay too # > short... # > Maybe I could stuff a 240D engine in there, or maybe the 2.5/3.0L TD, but # > that # > would require a lot of engineering... # > # > will post the pictures when I get them... # > a 4dr Cherokee with a Diesel gets 26 in town, 32 freeway... 85 hp, 115 # > ftlbs torque. # > we loved the one I had before, it's just that it wouldn't tow it's own # > shadow. # > and the clutch setup bothered my lumbar... Jim, any way of popping an AT # > in there? # > I may try a different seat setup since driving a VW, Mercedes or J10 with a # > manual # > doesn't bother me, just XJ/MJs... # > # > # > john # > # > # > ----- # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org # > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > # # # # ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 12:13:23 -0700 From: Curtis Subject: Re: fsj: mity-vac brake bleeder John, There is a hole or slot in the rear of tongue by the back of the master cylinder specifically for bleeding. Just stick a screwdriver in and push toward the rear, multiple times of course. ;) Also the best method I have found for one man bleeding is get a length of clear plastic/vinyl tubing and a jar. Put some brake fluid in the jar. Ger a piece of solid wire for a hook (I use a stripped 12 awg piece from scrap Romex and just leave it on the tube impermanently.) and from the bleeder screw go up at lease 6 inches and hook the tubing to something on the frame and then let it hang down into the jar above the fluid. Always start with the wheel furthest, as the line is run, from the master cylinder. Crack the bleeder wide open walk away for 5 minutes or whatever and when you come back you should have fluid in the tubing. If you are in a hurry you can gently pump (Remember the screwdriver) the brakes, with the tubing already into the fluid, until you see fluid in the tubing. Then close the bleeder and crack it open just enough to get the fluid to come out under pressure. Continue this until the fluid is coming out clear and bubble free. Close bleeder, remove hose and repeat on the next wheel. Cracking the bleeder only a little helps prevent air from being drawn into the system through the bleeder threads. Running the hose upward draws the air away from the bleeder, and the brake cylinder, leaving only fluid to be drawn back in. If you have a real problem with air from the threads put some brake fluid on them as a thread sealer. Of course if you are not in any hurry you can gravity bleed this way too. Just hook up the hose as above with the jar end just into the jar, not at the bottom, open the bleeder 1 full turn, go have lunch, plan your next project, or what ever and come back later. If the line is full of clean clear bubble free fluid you are done. Just don't let the master cylinder run out of fluid. I used to use a Mityvac for brakes a long time ago, but struggled with air bubbles from the threads too many times. My preferred method is still pressure bleeding. Where you pressurize the system at the master cylinder and push the air, fluid, dirt, etc.through the system and out the bleeder. Only takes about 5 to 10 minutes for the whole car, but I don't have $300+ for a tool like that. > Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 19:37:43 -0700 (PDT) > From: john > Subject: Re: fsj: mity-vac brake bleeder > > we tried to push the tongue in, did that a few times... but my 6' tall > son didn't have enough weight behind him to activate the surge brake controller. :) > > gravity bleed, that was Joe Sego's trick, remember? :) > > I used a power bleeder once, those are great... you put a diaphram over > the master cylinder and put air pressure to it, then open the bleeder valve... > quick and easy... > > john ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 19:15:18 +0000 From: Michel Balea Subject: RE: fsj: Diesel Cherokee or J10? Then you need to go the other way, move the radiator... like the Jerrari in Reno. Michel 74wag > Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 12:12:37 -0700 > From: johnfwiw, a 300SD engine will not fit in a pre-'87 XJ, not enough room... firewall is in the way. :) _________________________________________________________________ Bing^Y brings you maps, menus, and reviews organized in one place. Try it now. http://www.bing.com/search?q=restaurants&form=MLOGEN&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_M LOGEN_Core_tagline_local_1x1 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 15:11:22 -0700 (PDT) From: diesel john Subject: fsj: Re: [CJ-10List] Jeep NP-208 to GM TH400 you could try to find the input gear from a GM NP208, I think the spline count is different... but then again so is the clocking and the adapter... have tried to do this before... I've gone with both advance and novak adapters... prefer advance, but both are not inexpensive... the other option is to try to find a '91 and up GM case with the driver's side drop... nv241? For my 6.2/700r4 setup I ended up with a novak setup, but really disliked it, they change the xfr case instead of the tailshaft... so if you blow an xfr case you have to swap the input gear... you might be able to make it work... jeep has a 23 spline output shaft... gm might as well... but the tailshaft length might vary... have heard a number of variations on how to make this work from guys on the FSJ list, but when the rubber meets the road the only I've seen work is the adapter... will post this to the FSJ list and request pictures from those that claim that it works... ;) john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Wed, 17 Jun 2009, Scott Hyde wrote: # Question for the gear heads: # # Without spending a ton of money on ready made, high end adapters, how do I mate a GM-TH400 to a Jeep NP-208 t-case? # Scott A. Hyde # NRA Life Member # NRA Certified Rifle and Pistol Instructor # USPSA Member # # # # # # [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] # # ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 15:17:55 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: xj: Cracked head... Stephen, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ia8PnHTy8s That doesn't look normal... my Diesels don't do that. ;) bummer. You've spent a lot of quality time with wrenches on that engine... I'm heading over the pass in the morning to retrieve a couple of Nissan SD33Ts, T19 and 727. Can hardly wait to get my J10 setup with the SD33T/T19 and NP208... 3.54 gears with 235s... should see 20/24 mpg or more... So far I've been tempted by a Diesel blazer, and may yet be tempted by a Diesel Cherokee... but I fear the Renault... it's unfortunate that Jeep didn't continue with a Diesel after '87 so I could put a larger Diesel under that bonnet. While my wife may hate my J10, I don't... a Diesel XJ would be nice, but I'm not sure I'm ready to babysit a French Diesel again... If I can find a WK with a CRD that I can get without a massive car payment I may just do it... but after my daughter's wedding in August... for now, I'll have to live with 20+ year old used Diesels... :) john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Wed, 17 Jun 2009, Stephen Rigley wrote: # theres the confirmation I guess.. # http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ia8PnHTy8s # # On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 10:50 PM, Stephen Rigley wrote: # # > # > On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 9:37 PM, john wrote: # > # >> so you might not be willing to recommend a VM Diesel then? # >> you've had a lot of issues with it. # > # > # > Well... this engine came with no history (and 110+k miles) so I couldn't # > really say either way. # > Yeah, have had almost every problem you can have with this engine.. am # > pretty familiar with it now ;-) # > That said.. if a few basic maintenance steps are taken from day 1, you # > could avoid all of them. # ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 23:14:44 -0700 From: Jim Blair Subject: RE: fsj: Re: [CJ-10List] Jeep NP-208 to GM TH400 TH400 is 32 spline as well as 4L80E (wish they made a good aftermarket controller for those!) and 700R4 is 27 spline as well as TH350 Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 > Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 15:11:22 -0700 > From: dieseljohn-at-comcast.net > To: CJ-10List-at-yahoogroups.com > CC: fsj-at-digest.net > Subject: fsj: Re: [CJ-10List] Jeep NP-208 to GM TH400 > > you could try to find the input gear from a GM NP208, I think > the spline count is different... but then again so is the clocking > and the adapter... have tried to do this before... > > I've gone with both advance and novak adapters... prefer advance, but > both are not inexpensive... > > the other option is to try to find a '91 and up GM case with the driver's > side drop... nv241? > > For my 6.2/700r4 setup I ended up with a novak setup, but really disliked > it, they change the xfr case instead of the tailshaft... so if you blow > an xfr case you have to swap the input gear... > > you might be able to make it work... jeep has a 23 spline output shaft... > gm might as well... but the tailshaft length might vary... > > have heard a number of variations on how to make this work from guys on > the FSJ list, but when the rubber meets the road the only I've seen work > is the adapter... will post this to the FSJ list and request pictures > from those that claim that it works... ;) > > john > > > > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > On Wed, 17 Jun 2009, Scott Hyde wrote: > > # Question for the gear heads: > # > # Without spending a ton of money on ready made, high end adapters, how do I > mate a GM-TH400 to a Jeep NP-208 t-case? > # Scott A. Hyde > # NRA Life Member > # NRA Certified Rifle and Pistol Instructor > # USPSA Member > # > # > # > # > # > # [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > # > # _________________________________________________________________ Bing^Y brings you maps, menus, and reviews organized in one place. Try it now. http://www.bing.com/search?q=restaurants&form=MLOGEN&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_M LOGEN_Core_tagline_local_1x1 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 09:22:05 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: headliners most upholstery shops can build a new headliner for around $300. or try bjsoffroad.com or jcwhitney.com ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Thu, 18 Jun 2009, FSJparts-at-yahoogroups.com wrote: # There is 1 message in this issue. # Topics in this digest: # 1. '77 Wagoneer Headliner # From: Dan # # # Message # ________________________________________________________________________ # 1. '77 Wagoneer Headliner # Posted by: "Dan" danielshaw68-at-sbcglobal.net deshaw68 # Date: Wed Jun 17, 2009 12:46 pm ((PDT)) # # Hi Group, # We finally got the Wag smogged and ready to make my wife very very happy driving it as a daily driver. # One item that will help is the Headliner # # Its warped and plastic cover is missing. # Anyone have a how to where to get the stock to put a new on in or where I can purchase a replacement? # # Thanks # Dan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 17:11:26 +0000 From: Michel Balea Subject: RE: fsj: headliners Bj's has the material, but one guy sells you the support as well (I have not tried it, and have no financial interest...) http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=65057 cheers Michel 74wag > Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 09:22:05 -0700 > From: john-at-wagoneers.com > To: fsj-at-digest.net > CC: FSJparts-at-yahoogroups.com > Subject: fsj: headliners > > most upholstery shops can build a new headliner for around $300. > > or try bjsoffroad.com > > or jcwhitney.com > > > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > On Thu, 18 Jun 2009, FSJparts-at-yahoogroups.com wrote: > > # There is 1 message in this issue. > # Topics in this digest: > # 1. '77 Wagoneer Headliner > # From: Dan > # > # > # Message > # ________________________________________________________________________ > # 1. '77 Wagoneer Headliner > # Posted by: "Dan" danielshaw68-at-sbcglobal.net deshaw68 > # Date: Wed Jun 17, 2009 12:46 pm ((PDT)) > # > # Hi Group, > # We finally got the Wag smogged and ready to make my wife very very happy driving it as a daily driver. > # One item that will help is the Headliner > # > # Its warped and plastic cover is missing. > # Anyone have a how to where to get the stock to put a new on in or where I can purchase a replacement? > # > # Thanks > # Dan _________________________________________________________________ Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail.. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutoria l_QuickAdd_062009 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 12:34:12 -0700 From: Jim Blair Subject: fsj: My newest toy It's a little rough (previous owner lost a wheel bearing and ditched it) but it's complete and running, so I hope to have a fully functioning FSJ within the next month back on the road! http://s6.photobucket.com/albums/y209/carnuck/stepside/ Next move will be to pull the 454 TH400 from my '82 Chev (the tow vehicle in these pics) and put it in the '67 GMC shortbox stepside to make it ready to sell. (307 and powerglide from that will go back into the '82 to use as a garbage hauler) _________________________________________________________________ Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC that^Rs right for you. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/choosepc/?ocid=ftp_val_wl_290 ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #3359 **************************